at end of this CBA. Openly talking about it.
I think the players got the short end of the stick last contract except the stupid practice rules stuff.
Complaining about the suspensions, etc.
Why do you start talking 3 years before the end of the contract in the confrontational manner that is being presented. I'm generally pro labor, but that article sort of gets me pissed off.
NFLPA Strike Talk - (
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they have the worst contract of all the major sports.
It's been 30 years since the scabs, I wonder if the NFL would ever do that again if push came to shove and get players to cross the picket line.
I'd like to see the CAP go up; a type of DL so players can healthy and play again after a significant injury in the same year; there should be a proper appeals board where the Commish is not jury, judge and executioner.
Pretty much. They have no one to blame but themselves for signing that steaming pile.
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the NFL is so one sided that it's laughable. Why should these guys risk their lives for so little guarantees along with fines, suspensions for sneezing, etc.
Because they are well-paid compared to what they would make from an alternative career. Cops and firemen risk their lives for a lot less money.
milton you know you cannot compare apples to oranges. By the same token, soldiers get paid less compared to police and firemen.(Not sure meals, uniforms and quarters can be included)
Actors, musicians etc, all get paid a lot for non-essential functions. Teachers get paid squat.
Entertainers get paid.
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the NFL is so one sided that it's laughable. Why should these guys risk their lives for so little guarantees along with fines, suspensions for sneezing, etc.
Because they are well-paid compared to what they would make from an alternative career. Cops and firemen risk their lives for a lot less money.
Horrible argument. I'm talking about the context of sports. Most profitable league with employees who have the most to lose with their health along with the the least amount of pay and least rights.
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In comment 13569892 UConn4523 said:
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the NFL is so one sided that it's laughable. Why should these guys risk their lives for so little guarantees along with fines, suspensions for sneezing, etc.
Because they are well-paid compared to what they would make from an alternative career. Cops and firemen risk their lives for a lot less money.
milton you know you cannot compare apples to oranges. By the same token, soldiers get paid less compared to police and firemen.(Not sure meals, uniforms and quarters can be included)
Actors, musicians etc, all get paid a lot for non-essential functions. Teachers get paid squat.
Entertainers get paid.
The 300 or so stars/millionaires are not going to be able to convince the other 1620 to risk losing a year of play and a year of pay to meet their needs.
And,
the 95% of the players who keep their noses clean aren't going to fight the comish's power of authority to risk that either.
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In comment 13569892 UConn4523 said:
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the NFL is so one sided that it's laughable. Why should these guys risk their lives for so little guarantees along with fines, suspensions for sneezing, etc.
Because they are well-paid compared to what they would make from an alternative career. Cops and firemen risk their lives for a lot less money.
Horrible argument. I'm talking about the context of sports. Most profitable league with employees who have the most to lose with their health along with the the least amount of pay and least rights.
In the NFL, you can't have both a hard salary cap and fully guaranteed contracts. Too many injuries. Large signing bonuses are the compromise. It splits the difference when it comes to the risk of injury.
Not only are football careers short, but these guys don't have any alternatives. Baseball players can play in Japan, Korea, and the Caribbean, which works for the many of them that are foreign-born.
NBA players can threaten to play in Europe, China, Israel, or even Brazil. NHL players can threaten to play all over Europe, especially the foreign-born players.
Where are NFL players going if they don't get what they want? Canada? That league can't support them.
But you can't make everyone totally happy. And no CBA aid ecer going to be totally fair for every player. More games might be a compromise. Extend the season. But they need to adjust a lot. Lack of practice time is stupid. It's hurting players. You can make more OTA's Less contact.
This sounds a bit desperate though by the union
But you can't make everyone totally happy. And no CBA aid ecer going to be totally fair for every player. More games might be a compromise. Extend the season. But they need to adjust a lot. Lack of practice time is stupid. It's hurting players. You can make more OTA's Less contact.
This sounds a bit desperate though by the union
I will totally disagree with your take on the Rookie cap. Too many toads were coming out and getting more money than established stars with many holding out on top of it. The problem, if there was one, was that money was meant for veteran starters, but the stars sucked up the extra.
Maybe the rookie contracts should be 3 yrs with a 4th year option for 1st rounders instead of 4 with a 5th year option.
While I agree, I don't get why that matters. Shouldn't it be better? This shouldn't be a situation where having something is better than nothing, which is essentially what you are saying. Why shouldn't they get better long term health benefits? Why shouldn't they get better guarantees?
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...the disparity between the have's and the have-not's would be even greater. The stars would be making twice as much as they are making now and the role players would be making half of what they are making now.
While I agree, I don't get why that matters. Shouldn't it be better? This shouldn't be a situation where having something is better than nothing, which is essentially what you are saying. Why shouldn't they get better long term health benefits? Why shouldn't they get better guarantees?
At this point, the money they make is good. What they need is better long term health care 1st and most important and better benefits overall.
If you want more guarantees, then the cap must go up. I'm not opposed to both going up.
They need to get rid of the franchise tag, or at least allow teams to franchise tag players only once.
They need to get rid of this 5th year option bullshit too. 4 year rookie contract then negotiate with the team or become a free agent and negotiate with other teams.
Many fans bitch about how players dont EARN the money they are paid, especially rookies, but the franchise tag and 5th year option hold players who have EARNED a better, long term contract from being able to get it.
Those 2 things I believe are the shittiest things the owners have over the players.
The conduct policy I have no problem with, and the reduced practices were a consolation prize for the players, who wanted to keep the revenue split status quo and did not get that. Smith had to get something, and thats what he got. It hurts teams, especially offensive efficiency, but it reduces the wear and tear on these guys bodies, and i think they like that.
Thursday night football aint going nowhere, even though it is contrary to the league's stance that they are concerned about player safety. Not putting that toothpaste back in the tube.
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In comment 13569892 UConn4523 said:
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the NFL is so one sided that it's laughable. Why should these guys risk their lives for so little guarantees along with fines, suspensions for sneezing, etc.
Because they are well-paid compared to what they would make from an alternative career. Cops and firemen risk their lives for a lot less money.
Horrible argument. I'm talking about the context of sports. Most profitable league with employees who have the most to lose with their health along with the the least amount of pay and least rights.
It's a bad CBA for many of he players. The money is pooled at the top. So more money to less players is not a good deal for he majority of the union Also less practice helps vets and hurts younger guys who need more reps.
And a yearly league wide real life fantasy draft.
Every team picks new players every year.
Pros: players make more money, league makes a zillion dollars on the 30 day long fantasy draft on espn.
Cons: the players move every year.
I'm getting tired of all the drama in the NFL anyway.
I'll start following college football more.
I'm getting tired of all the drama in the NFL anyway.
I'll start following college football more.
This is getting quite the reaction from many young folks as well....
Players agreed to deal. Its not one sided. If it were a Judge would not have signed off on it. Stop believing the drama. You probably get treated a lot worse by your employer then any NFL player does. Deal is one sided? Victor Cruz made $7 million in 2015 and never set foot on the field. Didn't rehab properly and hurt his calf, but had no issues instead of rehabbing shooting an episode of ballers.
He said that the owners are ready to allow medical marijuana and many suspensions come from that issue. He said that alone could go a long way with the NFL players in the negotiations
Players agreed to deal. Its not one sided. If it were a Judge would not have signed off on it. Stop believing the drama. You probably get treated a lot worse by your employer then any NFL player does. Deal is one sided? Victor Cruz made $7 million in 2015 and never set foot on the field. Didn't rehab properly and hurt his calf, but had no issues instead of rehabbing shooting an episode of ballers.
You have to assess within the context of sport. Why are people relating athletes and their careers to that if their own?
They have the worst CBA of the major sports, I don't even think it's debatable. So if it's the worst and they take on the greatest risk, then you have a very unfair deal.
And save the excuse that they signed it, of course they did, that's how they continue working. For every Tom Brady there's 50 players who won't see a big contract or a pension.
Even that is very arguable.
The revenue that the ownerships admit to is split 50/50.
If I remember the last labor dispute, not opening up the books was a huge sticking point.
they have the worst contract of all the major sports.
Exactly. It's in the NFLPA's best interests to take a shot across the bow early, try to plant the seed. I do think the next stoppage could be a long one, as I think the players are going to demand a lot. Less direct control of player suspensions by the commish office, and, more importantly, more guarantees in their contracts.
If you know Kotter's model for change, this is it. They (NFLPA) are attempting to create a sense of urgency, this will help them build a coalition from players, media, and fans to MAYBE help talk the owners into something they (owners) don't want currently. They know this is the only shot they really have.
NBA minimum salary is $490k or ~$6K per game (~1/5 of the NFL min). MLB minimum salary is $535k or ~$3300 per game (~1/9 of the NFL min). Similarly, top players in NBA/MLB make ~2/5 and ~1/5 of the top NFL players on a per game basis.
Also they really need to do away with the stupid franchise/transition tag shit.
NBA minimum salary is $490k or ~$6K per game (~1/5 of the NFL min). MLB minimum salary is $535k or ~$3300 per game (~1/9 of the NFL min). Similarly, top players in NBA/MLB make ~2/5 and ~1/5 of the top NFL players on a per game basis.
Stupid analogy. The reason the NFL plays significantly fewer games is because of the increased violence, obviously. And why shouldnt these guys be compensated for practice and for training all year round? Do you not get paid to prepare for a presentation?
IMO, the NFLPA should focus on higher minimum salaries, player discipline handled by a neutral arbitrator, and better retirement and healthcare benefits for anyone who plays in the league for X amount of years (X could even be 1 and scale up with each year of service). Would be the best way to get the majority of the union to pass a new CBA.
It's not apples-to-apples, but the NFL plays 1/5 as many games as the NBA and 1/10 as the MLB which means far fewer opportunities to generate revenue. Combine that with the larger rosters (>4x NBA and 2x MLB) and it's unreasonable to expect the players to earn comparable "top" salaries, which is what people are typically comparing when they compare salaries across sports.
That said, the players also deserve more than a 50/50 split of the revenue. NFL players also get hurt by the relative anonymity compared to other sports. Compare Beckham's record setting deal with Nike (for an NFL player) with the deals top NBA players routinely get. The stupid celebration penalties after TDs definitely hurt the players in this regard (IIRC, didn't the dirty birds get some ad deals after their TD celebration?).
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Are NFL players really underpaid relative to other sports? The NFL minimum salary is $465K which works out to ~$29k per game. Top paid players can earn >$1M per game.
NBA minimum salary is $490k or ~$6K per game (~1/5 of the NFL min). MLB minimum salary is $535k or ~$3300 per game (~1/9 of the NFL min). Similarly, top players in NBA/MLB make ~2/5 and ~1/5 of the top NFL players on a per game basis.
Stupid analogy. The reason the NFL plays significantly fewer games is because of the increased violence, obviously. And why shouldnt these guys be compensated for practice and for training all year round? Do you not get paid to prepare for a presentation?
I'm fully aware of why they play fewer games (also increases scarcity which helps boost viewership and ultimately ad revenue). Like it or not, they get their base salary as gameday checks. And intensity is certainly higher during games than practices.
Because they are fucking idiots
Also they really need to do away with the stupid franchise/transition tag shit.
I don't think the rules moved the $$ away from RBs as much as the wear and tear RBs take. Much more injury risk for RBs than WRs.
Don't see the tags going anywhere anytime soon. The owners want them to have control over the top players and 99% of the players don't care enough about the tags to make it a central negotiating issue. There was a good (SI?) article about this a while back.
IMO, the NFLPA should focus on higher minimum salaries, player discipline handled by a neutral arbitrator, and better retirement and healthcare benefits for anyone who plays in the league for X amount of years (X could even be 1 and scale up with each year of service). Would be the best way to get the majority of the union to pass a new CBA.
I'd add that the #1 focus for the NFLPA should be getting the revenue split into their favor. I think it's currently something like 48-52 or 48.5-51.5 in favor of the owners. Also need to get all revenue streams included in these numbers (IIRC, the last CBA made significant progress here).
I wouldn't make player discipline a big issue as it probably impacts fewer players then the franchise tags. The cases that are decided arbitrarily are typically the DV ones, not drug related suspensions. On drug suspensions, they should definitely move to take marijuana off the restricted list.
It's not due to anonymity. It's about shoes. People want to own a basketball player's shoes. Top basketball shoes have $100M+ in sales per year. I think Lebron's shoes have over $300M. Not a big market for football cleats.
It's gotta be the shoes.
Everything is short-term thinking by the players out of necessity.
NBA minimum salary is $490k or ~$6K per game (~1/5 of the NFL min). MLB minimum salary is $535k or ~$3300 per game (~1/9 of the NFL min). Similarly, top players in NBA/MLB make ~2/5 and ~1/5 of the top NFL players on a per game basis.
You aren't factoring in the average careers of each sport, nor the long term health ramifications. You regularly see guys playing in the MLB through their late 30s, mid 30's for the NBA. Those are 10-15 year careers for journeymen like Brian Scalabrine who basically never even played. Now compare that to the average NFL career...
Everything afterwards is hostage to hyperbole.
I understand both sides of the rookie cap. But it's patently illegal and falls under "restraint of trade" in The Sherman Anti-trust act. How do you tell a kid that he can't get market value for his services.? You can't, at least not legally.
Yes, it's not fair to the pro who is established and making less than the rookie is asking for...but that's the way of the world. And if the union and the league want to set standards and rules, the college senior is not part of the union. So in effect the union is giving away the rights of a non-union member.
Everything afterwards is hostage to hyperbole.
I understand both sides of the rookie cap. But it's patently illegal and falls under "restraint of trade" in The Sherman Anti-trust act. How do you tell a kid that he can't get market value for his services.? You can't, at least not legally.
Yes, it's not fair to the pro who is established and making less than the rookie is asking for...but that's the way of the world. And if the union and the league want to set standards and rules, the college senior is not part of the union. So in effect the union is giving away the rights of a non-union member.
The draft is patently illegal -- not allowing players do seek employment with whoever they want is the definition if restraint of trade.
Except that the draft -- and the rookie cap -- were both agreed to in collective bargaining, and so are protected under the Clayton Act.
When terms are agreed to under collective bargaining - they are protected and legal