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Fullback? We don't need no stinking Fullback!

Klaatu : 9/4/2017 10:11 am
I've heard that for the past four months, and every time I heard it I said piffle. That's right...piffle!


Quote:


Giants' most surprising roster add can diversify their offense

Of all the offensive weaponry the Giants possess, no one is going to study tape of Shane Smith and determine he is the player the defense has to stop. Yet, in some ways, Smith’s presence on the roster could be the spark that ignites what has the potential to be an explosive offense.

Smith, an undrafted rookie fullback, made it onto the Giants’ 53-man roster, and, in some ways, he defied the odds more dramatically than any other player. First, Smith had to convince the coaching staff he could develop into a legitimate NFL player. Next, Smith had to convince Ben McAdoo that the Giants actually needed to keep a fullback, a spot they neglected to fill in 2016.

In his first year as head coach, McAdoo put on the field an attack devoid of any versatility, and the results were as predictable as the formations the Giants used almost exclusively. They were in “11 personnel’’ – three receivers, one running back, one tight end – 90 percent of the offensive snaps, which is an NFL record and far above the league average of about 60 percent.

Those days are over. The Giants signed Rhett Ellison as a blocking tight end, took Evan Engram in the first round of the draft as a pass-catching tight end and signed Brandon Marshall as a tight end-sized receiver. With the inclusion of Smith, McAdoo now has options to explore, and just maybe the running game benefits from the new blood...

Link - ( New Window )
How many teams in the league have a FB  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 10:15 am : link
Do you know?
RE: How many teams in the league have a FB  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13583419 Hereditaryemperor said:
Quote:
Do you know?


Why should that matter?
My only  
Jon in NYC : 9/4/2017 10:19 am : link
question is why not use Ellison and/or LaCosse as a FB and utilize Smith's spot for more OL depth or really anything else.

Lets not pretend that Smith is some game altering blocker here. He missed just as much as he hit in the preseason.
Klaatu,  
oldog : 9/4/2017 10:21 am : link
we sort of knew, but this is nicely put. It will be fun to watch his development. Makes me think of Brandon Jacobs, a bit.
Several things I think we need to understand  
blueblood : 9/4/2017 10:23 am : link
The Giants by adding a FB have added diversity to their packages. I think most likely that the FB will also learn some of the TE responsibilities as well. This was his plan last year before we lost both FB's.

McAdoo cut his teeth as a TE coach. Green Bay's 21 offense was a mainstay when he was there. 2 RB's, 1 TE and 2 WR's. I expect we will see that formation from time to time.

I think also lost in the shuffle is that the offense is physically BIGGER which has a lot of potential in the red zone. We have a 6'4 Marshall. A 6'5 Ellison, 6'5 Jerrell Adams, 6'5" Lacosse, 6'3 Engram.

I dont think that should be underestimated either
RE: RE: How many teams in the league have a FB  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13583423 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13583419 Hereditaryemperor said:


Quote:


Do you know?



Why should that matter?


Just cruous
Curious  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 10:24 am : link
*
RE: My only  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 10:33 am : link
In comment 13583425 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
question is why not use Ellison and/or LaCosse as a FB and utilize Smith's spot for more OL depth or really anything else.

Lets not pretend that Smith is some game altering blocker here. He missed just as much as he hit in the preseason.


Ellison and LaCosse are much better served lining up inline, not in the backfield (although they may start out that way from time to time, before motioning out).

OL depth is something of a myth. We've got five starters, a backup LT, a backup C/OG, and a backup RG/RT. As I said in another thread, what's a "9th guy" going to do besides absolutely nothing? If we have to elevate someone off the practice squad due to injury (God forbid), then so be it. But having another "big ugly" sitting around doing nothing seems pointless to me.

Also, as it says in the article, Smith is on all four special teams units. He'll contribute there as well as helping to pave the way for our RBs, along with catching the occasional safety-valve pass.
RE: RE: My only  
Jon in NYC : 9/4/2017 10:37 am : link
In comment 13583445 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13583425 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


question is why not use Ellison and/or LaCosse as a FB and utilize Smith's spot for more OL depth or really anything else.

Lets not pretend that Smith is some game altering blocker here. He missed just as much as he hit in the preseason.



Ellison and LaCosse are much better served lining up inline, not in the backfield (although they may start out that way from time to time, before motioning out).

OL depth is something of a myth. We've got five starters, a backup LT, a backup C/OG, and a backup RG/RT. As I said in another thread, what's a "9th guy" going to do besides absolutely nothing? If we have to elevate someone off the practice squad due to injury (God forbid), then so be it. But having another "big ugly" sitting around doing nothing seems pointless to me.

Also, as it says in the article, Smith is on all four special teams units. He'll contribute there as well as helping to pave the way for our RBs, along with catching the occasional safety-valve pass.


OL depth is only a myth until it isn't. They're two injuries away from being in full scramble mode.
RE: My only  
wonderback : 9/4/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13583425 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
question is why not use Ellison and/or LaCosse as a FB and utilize Smith's spot for more OL depth or really anything else.

Lets not pretend that Smith is some game altering blocker here. He missed just as much as he hit in the preseason.


Why do people keep saying that. I've watched him. He blocks well. He doesn't miss half of his assignments. He's good and has gotten better as the preseason has moved forward. He's got excellent measureables and works hard at his position. He should also improve as he moves into his first year. Let's give the kid a chance and stop throwing misstatements about his blocking. It's just not true!
Hereditaryemperor.  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 10:39 am : link
When discussing this in a number of posts this offseason, I've usually pointed to three teams - perennial powerhouses, as I've called them - that utilize a FB: the Patriots, Packers, and Steelers. There are others, including the 49ers and Ravens, but I haven't researched all 32 teams.
RE: How many teams in the league have a FB  
bigbluescot : 9/4/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13583419 Hereditaryemperor said:
Quote:
Do you know?


Last year only 14 teams didn't have a fullback on the roster. This year 11 teams don't have one. The position isn't as dead as people seem to think.
Thank you, bigbluescot.  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 10:44 am : link
Jon, then why not keep 10 O-Linemen? Or 11 or 12? And how many of those will be active on gamedays? The PS is there for guys like Biz and Halapaio to learn their craft, hopefully improve, and also hopefully stand ready to fill in if need be.
RE: My only  
njm : 9/4/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13583425 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
question is why not use Ellison and/or LaCosse as a FB and utilize Smith's spot for more OL depth or really anything else.

Lets not pretend that Smith is some game altering blocker here. He missed just as much as he hit in the preseason.


1. Ellison is head and shoulders the best in line blocking TE on the team. You don't want him in the backfield.

2. Smith is a better blocker in the backfield than Lacosse, and improved as the preseason progressed. I see Lacosse as Engrams backup, not as a blocker.

3. Which one of out final OL cuts got picked up by another team? Smith will likely be active on Sundays for his ST contributions. What would they be doing? Let them be on the PS or waiting by the phone.

RE: RE: How many teams in the league have a FB  
njm : 9/4/2017 10:49 am : link
In comment 13583452 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
In comment 13583419 Hereditaryemperor said:


Quote:


Do you know?



Last year only 14 teams didn't have a fullback on the roster. This year 11 teams don't have one. The position isn't as dead as people seem to think.


Chicago kept one this year. Michael Burton played for Detroit the last 2 years and I was looking to pick him up if he had been cut loose.
RE: Thank you, bigbluescot.  
Jon in NYC : 9/4/2017 10:50 am : link
In comment 13583455 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Jon, then why not keep 10 O-Linemen? Or 11 or 12? And how many of those will be active on gamedays? The PS is there for guys like Biz and Halapaio to learn their craft, hopefully improve, and also hopefully stand ready to fill in if need be.


Okay, why not keep 5 OL then? See, that's a dumb argument that goes both ways.

The FB role can be filled by other players on the roster who can contribute in other ways.
RE: RE: How many teams in the league have a FB  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/4/2017 10:53 am : link
In comment 13583452 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
In comment 13583419 Hereditaryemperor said:


Quote:


Do you know?



Last year only 14 teams didn't have a fullback on the roster. This year 11 teams don't have one. The position isn't as dead as people seem to think.


Yes, thank you...I was just asking. Thank you for actually,well, answering my question. Not a bad number.
RE: RE: Thank you, bigbluescot.  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 10:57 am : link
In comment 13583463 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13583455 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Jon, then why not keep 10 O-Linemen? Or 11 or 12? And how many of those will be active on gamedays? The PS is there for guys like Biz and Halapaio to learn their craft, hopefully improve, and also hopefully stand ready to fill in if need be.



Okay, why not keep 5 OL then? See, that's a dumb argument that goes both ways.

The FB role can be filled by other players on the roster who can contribute in other ways.


Sorry, but it doesn't work both ways. Every team needs a reasonable amount of backups, which is why there are 53 men on a roster, not 25.

As for the FB role, it should be filled by a FB, which is why the Giants have one, and, as stated before, our FB will play a role on special teams, too.
Both the Giants OLs and the RBs have already said  
David B. : 9/4/2017 10:57 am : link
Having a FB is HUGE. For formational diversity alone, it's a great move, but it's going to help the run game.

I don't remember seeing ANY of these TEs lined up as a FB in the backfield in the preseason. I bet Smith is a better lead blocker than ALL OF THEM. And if he goes down, he's going to be hard to replace.

Besides, it's not either/or. You can have TEs on the line, and the FB in the backfield in certain packages.

It's ONE FUCKING ROSTER SPOT, and there is NO DOWNSIDE AT ALL. Get over it.
RE: RE: Thank you, bigbluescot.  
njm : 9/4/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13583463 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13583455 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Jon, then why not keep 10 O-Linemen? Or 11 or 12? And how many of those will be active on gamedays? The PS is there for guys like Biz and Halapaio to learn their craft, hopefully improve, and also hopefully stand ready to fill in if need be.



Okay, why not keep 5 OL then? See, that's a dumb argument that goes both ways.

The FB role can be filled by other players on the roster who can contribute in other ways.


Smith is likely to be on all 4 ST units. Who's contributing in more ways?
RE: RE: RE: Thank you, bigbluescot.  
Jon in NYC : 9/4/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13583473 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13583463 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13583455 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Jon, then why not keep 10 O-Linemen? Or 11 or 12? And how many of those will be active on gamedays? The PS is there for guys like Biz and Halapaio to learn their craft, hopefully improve, and also hopefully stand ready to fill in if need be.



Okay, why not keep 5 OL then? See, that's a dumb argument that goes both ways.

The FB role can be filled by other players on the roster who can contribute in other ways.



Sorry, but it doesn't work both ways. Every team needs a reasonable amount of backups, which is why there are 53 men on a roster, not 25.

As for the FB role, it should be filled by a FB, which is why the Giants have one, and, as stated before, our FB will play a role on special teams, too.


Right. A reasonable amount of backups. Hence why it makes sense to protect yourself at OL when you have other guys that can fill the FB role just fine. Sorry.
RE: RE: RE: Thank you, bigbluescot.  
Jon in NYC : 9/4/2017 11:02 am : link
In comment 13583480 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13583463 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13583455 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Jon, then why not keep 10 O-Linemen? Or 11 or 12? And how many of those will be active on gamedays? The PS is there for guys like Biz and Halapaio to learn their craft, hopefully improve, and also hopefully stand ready to fill in if need be.



Okay, why not keep 5 OL then? See, that's a dumb argument that goes both ways.

The FB role can be filled by other players on the roster who can contribute in other ways.



Smith is likely to be on all 4 ST units. Who's contributing in more ways?


He's going to play 5-10 offensive snaps per game. If that. Anything else would be a drastic shift by McAdoo in terms of his offensive gameplan.
Jon, three OL backups is a reasonable amount.  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 11:05 am : link
And, no, there aren't other guys who can do what Smith does as effectively as he does it. He's built for it. They're not. That's why the Giants kept him.
That's fine,  
Jon in NYC : 9/4/2017 11:08 am : link
we can agree to disagree here. My concern, which I think is valid, is Richburg tweaks an ankle, Pugh gets rolled over in a pile, and we have Chad Wheeler backing up 5 guys with no one else on the roster. There seem to be a decent amount of good OL on waivers that the Giants didn't make a move for. Maybe they're more excited about their PS guys. We shall see.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Thank you, bigbluescot.  
njm : 9/4/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13583484 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13583480 njm said:


Quote:


In comment 13583463 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13583455 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Jon, then why not keep 10 O-Linemen? Or 11 or 12? And how many of those will be active on gamedays? The PS is there for guys like Biz and Halapaio to learn their craft, hopefully improve, and also hopefully stand ready to fill in if need be.



Okay, why not keep 5 OL then? See, that's a dumb argument that goes both ways.

The FB role can be filled by other players on the roster who can contribute in other ways.



Smith is likely to be on all 4 ST units. Who's contributing in more ways?



He's going to play 5-10 offensive snaps per game. If that. Anything else would be a drastic shift by McAdoo in terms of his offensive gameplan.


And how many offensive snaps would a #5 RB, a #7 WR or a # 9 OL take? How many defensive snaps would a #7 LB or a #10 DB take?
FB  
stoneman : 9/4/2017 11:20 am : link
The FB will take at least Shepard off the field as well as probably Engram most of the time. Hope we see it short yardage only.

I really want to see Engram on the field as much as possible.
Jon  
wonderback : 9/4/2017 11:21 am : link
There is an Italian expression for people like you in my family. It's called being 'capadosta'.
RE: Jon  
Jon in NYC : 9/4/2017 11:24 am : link
In comment 13583501 wonderback said:
Quote:
There is an Italian expression for people like you in my family. It's called being 'capadosta'.


Sounds like they should have left that expression in Italy.
...  
christian : 9/4/2017 11:26 am : link
Mac's focus as stated in a press conference towards the end or after last season was improving overall team blocking - not exclusive to the line.

Fullback is a real position, with real techniques and real concepts that need to be practiced and honed. It was brutally apparent just having a TE stand in the backfield didn't provide much value.

The most important attribute in a FB is the ability to get low when picking up the block in traffic. Smith has the advantage of being a good 3-4 inches shorter than the TEs on the roster. That helps greatly.

I said it all year and it looks like the Giants brass saw it too - the team plain sucked at blocking. The line sucked, the backfield sucked, the TEs sucked.

The group out there now is going to be a lot better. Ellison is a great blocker, Smith is showing something, Adams looked alive in the pre-season, Vereen is an ace pass protector.
RE: RE: Jon  
njm : 9/4/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13583502 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13583501 wonderback said:


Quote:


There is an Italian expression for people like you in my family. It's called being 'capadosta'.



Sounds like they should have left that expression in Italy.


Well, there's always "testa dura"
RE: FB  
blueblood : 9/4/2017 11:33 am : link
In comment 13583500 stoneman said:
Quote:
The FB will take at least Shepard off the field as well as probably Engram most of the time. Hope we see it short yardage only.

I really want to see Engram on the field as much as possible.


Not necessarily. there are various personnel options with 2 RB's One being a FB

20-has 3 WR's. This could be Engram as a defacto WR or Shep as a WR. It could also have Vereen as a RB and use him as a WR.

21- R RB, TE and 2 WR.. Engram could be on the field as a TE. HE could also be used an an Hback and go out wide.

They can get different personnel on the field im multiple positions.
RE: FB  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 11:34 am : link
In comment 13583500 stoneman said:
Quote:
The FB will take at least Shepard off the field as well as probably Engram most of the time. Hope we see it short yardage only.

I really want to see Engram on the field as much as possible.


Engram is going to get a ton of playing time. He's just that good.

And the odds are that the Giants are going to play 11 personnel the majority of offensive snaps, however it will most likely be closer to the league average of around 60% than the 90% they did last year. They've got the players to "diversify," as Paul Schwartz notes. They made a concerted effort to upgrade their TE corps in addition to adding a FB and that should pay big offensive dividends this year.
RE: My only  
djstat : 9/4/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13583425 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
question is why not use Ellison and/or LaCosse as a FB and utilize Smith's spot for more OL depth or really anything else.

Lets not pretend that Smith is some game altering blocker here. He missed just as much as he hit in the preseason.
. There is a difference between being a FB and playin like a FB as a opposed to a blocking TE in the backfield.

While i disagree with the OP that it is critical to have o e, I do think keeping a legit FB makes sense if you want to run some I and Pro Set looks. 21 and 22 personnel groups are nice to have.
My 2 centavos  
mavric : 9/4/2017 11:48 am : link
A fullback is extremely valuable if he can carry the ball for that elusive "3 yards and a cloud of dust".

I have no idea if Mac will let Smith run with the ball, but Smith is one strong mf (36 reps at his pro day having done 38 the day before - BTW, tops for the NLF combine this year was 35, and those guys were linemen) and if he plays sometimes as a 6-foot-1 chiseled 244 pound running back and can be used in short yardage situations, we suddenly have a weapon. As for me, I am so sick and tired of the Giants inability to move the ball on the ground in 3rd down / short yardage situations.

He is also athletic and had a 10'6" long jump (top in this year's long jumb at the combine was 9'83") and ran a 4.7 40. He is studying to help the line protect Eli and practicing blowing holes through the line for Perkins, Gallman, etc.

Time will tell, but Smith is strong, fast, athletic, and most of all HUNGRY! He has always been underestimated and taken for granted. He is dedicated to prove all the doubters wrong and the hours spent in the gym and studying books shows he could very well be a secret weapon for the Giants. Especially if he gets to run the ball since we haven't had a real power back since Brandon Jacobs went through defenders like a bowling ball into pins
RE: My 2 centavos  
wonderback : 9/4/2017 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13583520 mavric said:
Quote:
A fullback is extremely valuable if he can carry the ball for that elusive "3 yards and a cloud of dust".

I have no idea if Mac will let Smith run with the ball, but Smith is one strong mf (36 reps at his pro day having done 38 the day before - BTW, tops for the NLF combine this year was 35, and those guys were linemen) and if he plays sometimes as a 6-foot-1 chiseled 244 pound running back and can be used in short yardage situations, we suddenly have a weapon. As for me, I am so sick and tired of the Giants inability to move the ball on the ground in 3rd down / short yardage situations.

He is also athletic and had a 10'6" long jump (top in this year's long jumb at the combine was 9'83") and ran a 4.7 40. He is studying to help the line protect Eli and practicing blowing holes through the line for Perkins, Gallman, etc.

Time will tell, but Smith is strong, fast, athletic, and most of all HUNGRY! He has always been underestimated and taken for granted. He is dedicated to prove all the doubters wrong and the hours spent in the gym and studying books shows he could very well be a secret weapon for the Giants. Especially if he gets to run the ball since we haven't had a real power back since Brandon Jacobs went through defenders like a bowling ball into pins


Have you watched any of his workouts on his twitter account? Very impressive. I'm a big proponent of having a FB on the roster. This kid is good and will get a lot better. I'm having a lot of trouble with the posters on here who either:
A). Don't think we need a FB
B). Don't think he's very good.

You obviously didn't watch the last games line blocking at all. Your just talking out of your ass and going with the conventional wisdom that you don't need a FB in today's NFL. I strongly disagree along with many of the Giant RBs and OLineman - along with the head coach. But hell, what do they know.

I just don't understand  
Doomster : 9/4/2017 12:43 pm : link
the need for 4 TE's AND a FB.....Either have 4 TE's using Ellison in the FB role, or 3 TE's and a FB....that roster spot could have been used elsewhere....

As for Smith, he is no Hynoski.....I know he is a rookie, but when your only real job is to block, he has missed blocks, and some of his blocks have been patty cake-ish....maybe he grows into the job, but he definitely has to block better than what he has shown thus far....
There are a lot of things you don't understand, Doomster.  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 12:45 pm : link
This just happens to be one of them.
None of the tight ends  
Bluesbreaker : 9/4/2017 12:54 pm : link
are what I call good lead blockers look no further than
Darquas TD run Smith was able to shield off the last guy
that had a shot at stopping Darqua from scoring you see time and time again you have mostly good blocking in short yardage but one guy slips through and blows up the play the FB can negate that in a lot of situations not every single time but
enough times to convert and keep drives going I hope Smith stays healthy and gets utilized even give him a carry or pass now and then to at least pose the threat that he is just not there to block.
Several points  
Mike in Boston : 9/4/2017 1:02 pm : link
McAdoo's plan last year was to have a fullback. We had two in camp, including a well regarded FA signing; the both suffered season ending injuries in camp. So it should not come as such a surprise that he kept one this year. Everyone is making it sound as though it is a shock that McAdoo can spell FB.

If Smith plays 5-10 offensive snaps and 15-20 ST plays a game, he'll have plenty of opportunities to contribute. Certainly more than a 9th OL who would see the field only if 4 guys ahead of him on the depth chart got hurt. In which case we will be in a world of trouble no matter who the 9th guy is. If there is better OL talent out there than we have now, we can cut one of the backups in favor of someone better.

How many people who complained that we were in 11 personnel over 90% of the snaps last year are now complaining we are using too many roster spots on TE/FB?

And for the guys toward the back of the depth chart, contributions toward special teams are at least as important as what they do in their nominal position. There are something like 20-25 ST plays a game. How often is a 5th or 6th WR, a 3rd or 4th TE, or an 8th or 9th DB going to see the field that much in his nominal position? This is why it made sense to keep Tyree around as long as we did, why it makes sense to keep Lewis over Rudolph even if Rudolph is a better WR. I am sure it factored into the decision to keep Smith.


Part of the problem with this discussion  
81_Great_Dane : 9/4/2017 2:29 pm : link
is that the team has three platoons: Offense, Defense, and Special Teams, with four units within Specials. After the Offense and Defense starters are set, the coaches put a lot of weight on Special Teams contributions. That's why Roger Lewis is on the team. He's not officially a "specialist" like DeOssie but in effect, he's a special-teams "starter" who can back up on offense. much of a receiver but he's a good special-teamer.

If the TE/FB unit includes guys who are special-teams starters and backups on offense, that works.
Why do you people thing TE and FB are interchangeable?  
David B. : 9/4/2017 2:30 pm : link
FB is a different position with different responsibilities, and frankly, lead blocking between the tackles requires a different mentality and skillset than blocking on the edge. Smith is built for this job as his primary responsibility, and by all accounts loves it. The TEs have a different physique and skill set, and it's not their main thing. You can send them in in a pinch if you have to, but there's no evidence that it's effective enough to be common or a trend.

You guys are asking how many teams carry a FB?

Ask this question instead: Which TEs in the league line up in the backfield as a lead blocker for a RB? Name them.

RE: My only  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/4/2017 3:14 pm : link
In comment 13583425 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
question is why not use Ellison and/or LaCosse as a FB and utilize Smith's spot for more OL depth or really anything else.

Lets not pretend that Smith is some game altering blocker here. He missed just as much as he hit in the preseason.


Can they play FB? Pretty intense position to just plug a guy in with no experience. I think Ellison may have done it, and he seems like he's physical enough for it, but you really want Lacosse doing that? This is the first year ever he has made it through training camp without a season-ending injury.
...  
christian : 9/4/2017 4:05 pm : link
Rhett Ellison is 6'5" - by comparison Kyle Juszczyk is 6'1" - sure the TE can do some H-back concepts from the backfield, but to actually get low and lead block a tall tight end is a terrible fit.
This is the problem with today's pass happy league  
NYGNYY : 9/4/2017 5:16 pm : link
This is Giant Football' We Run the Ball and play D.
Not having a FB have been one of our Problems regardless of our Weapons. Need to Run the ball to close out Oppenents, give D a breather and be a lot less PREDICTABLE.
This is the problem with today's pass happy league  
NYGNYY : 9/4/2017 5:19 pm : link
This is Giant Football' We Run the Ball and play D in the Cold NFC East.
Not having a FB have been one of our Problems regardless of our Weapons. Need to Run the ball to close out Oppenents, Give D a breather and be a lot less PREDICTABLE.
RE: None of the tight ends  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/4/2017 6:56 pm : link
In comment 13583562 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
are what I call good lead blockers look no further than
Darquas TD run Smith was able to shield off the last guy
that had a shot at stopping Darqua from scoring you see time and time again you have mostly good blocking in short yardage but one guy slips through and blows up the play the FB can negate that in a lot of situations not every single time but
enough times to convert and keep drives going I hope Smith stays healthy and gets utilized even give him a carry or pass now and then to at least pose the threat that he is just not there to block.

Darqua, that's a new one.
RE: RE: RE: Jon  
Jon in NYC : 9/4/2017 10:56 pm : link
In comment 13583505 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13583502 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13583501 wonderback said:


Quote:


There is an Italian expression for people like you in my family. It's called being 'capadosta'.



Sounds like they should have left that expression in Italy.



Well, there's always "testa dura"


That one too.
stronzo  
idiotsavant : 9/5/2017 11:43 am : link
is always fun
but regarding fullback  
idiotsavant : 9/5/2017 11:50 am : link
by all means have one.

for all the reasons stated above.

I would add: As a lone setback, there is a school of thought (or a small number of unique sets and plays) where the 80% use of the lone setback is for pass protection, 10% for runs up the gut and 10% for the unexpected change up play, the dump off reception.

its less play-action oriented, more like max protect in theory, a player that nails the assignments and does it well, and can get some push in short yardage.

not saying this is a base, I have been pushing outside zone runs and play action which requires a legit run threat, but this is a thing as well
I really felt the Giants predictability formation-wise was because of  
Heisenberg : 9/5/2017 11:53 am : link
the parts lacking on the roster. No FB and weak TE is how you end up playing the same personnel groupings. I felt it really hamstrung the scheming and the playcalling.

Consequently I was really glad when they beefed up the TE room and brought in a full back. I think both will help the Giants have more consistency in the run game, goal line and short yardage.
Oops yeah thank you for correcting my spelling  
Bluesbreaker : 9/5/2017 1:06 pm : link
RE: None of the tight ends
Gatorade Dunk : 9/4/2017 6:56 pm : link : reply
In comment 13583562 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
are what I call good lead blockers look no further than
Darquas TD run Smith was able to shield off the last guy
that had a shot at stopping Darqua from scoring you see time and time again you have mostly good blocking in short yardage but one guy slips through and blows up the play the FB can negate that in a lot of situations not every single time but
enough times to convert and keep drives going I hope Smith stays healthy and gets utilized even give him a carry or pass now and then to at least pose the threat that he is just not there to block.

Darqua, that's a new one

But you get the idea Darkwa
FB helps  
D_Giants : 9/5/2017 9:52 pm : link
TEs are not FBs; a good FB makes a difference. Giants had FBs in both SBs. The OL needs someone to come smashing into LBs.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Thank you, bigbluescot.  
Jon in NYC : 9/11/2017 7:33 am : link
In comment 13583484 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13583480 njm said:


Quote:


In comment 13583463 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13583455 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Jon, then why not keep 10 O-Linemen? Or 11 or 12? And how many of those will be active on gamedays? The PS is there for guys like Biz and Halapaio to learn their craft, hopefully improve, and also hopefully stand ready to fill in if need be.



Okay, why not keep 5 OL then? See, that's a dumb argument that goes both ways.

The FB role can be filled by other players on the roster who can contribute in other ways.



Smith is likely to be on all 4 ST units. Who's contributing in more ways?



He's going to play 5-10 offensive snaps per game. If that. Anything else would be a drastic shift by McAdoo in terms of his offensive gameplan.


Shane Smith played 8 snaps last night, if anyone was curious.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Thank you, bigbluescot.  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/11/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13593299 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13583484 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13583480 njm said:


Quote:


In comment 13583463 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13583455 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Jon, then why not keep 10 O-Linemen? Or 11 or 12? And how many of those will be active on gamedays? The PS is there for guys like Biz and Halapaio to learn their craft, hopefully improve, and also hopefully stand ready to fill in if need be.



Okay, why not keep 5 OL then? See, that's a dumb argument that goes both ways.

The FB role can be filled by other players on the roster who can contribute in other ways.



Smith is likely to be on all 4 ST units. Who's contributing in more ways?



He's going to play 5-10 offensive snaps per game. If that. Anything else would be a drastic shift by McAdoo in terms of his offensive gameplan.



Shane Smith played 8 snaps last night, if anyone was curious.

And blocked very well when he was in there. Meanwhile, Ellison flat out whiffed on a lead block when he motioned into the backfield as FB.
Be wary  
Jon in NYC : 9/11/2017 11:08 am : link
of small sample sizes, my friend.
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