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How much better (or worse) do you think the Giants are?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/4/2017 4:48 pm
In comparison with last year?

I think they are much better on both sides of the ball, but I'm curious to see what other fans think.
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I think the team is a little better  
stockton : 9/4/2017 8:04 pm : link
but I agree with the other posters that say it won't show up in the W/L. Or if it does it is only 1 game.

Winning 11+ games isn't easy in the NFL. So the Giants could win the same number of games but increase their point differential and fewer games going down to the wire.

That said, most every fan base thinks their team improved except for the 3-6 teams tanking for a top pick. So it isn't like this question tends to lead to a lot of useful answers.
Every year brings with it  
joeinpa : 9/4/2017 8:06 pm : link
Different challenges different scenarios. However at first glance Giants have the look of a contender. Not sure we felt that way at this time last year.
slightly better on defense,  
prdave73 : 9/4/2017 8:19 pm : link
Mostly likely the same on offense. Does bringing in more weapons help yes, but it doesn't matter if the Oline can't block or the play calling stinks. period.
Substantially  
AcidTest : 9/4/2017 8:24 pm : link
better. We upgraded at the skills positions on offense, and retained JPP. The problem is the OL, but another year of experience will hopefully help.
I would think everyone would feel the Giants got better....  
George from PA : 9/4/2017 8:28 pm : link
Our 2 weakest spot on defense last year, FS and MLB have been replaced with their best options.

OV played injured is now healthy and JPP seemed ready to dominate.

Another year in system should have everyone playing faster..and DT might have a step back but I do not expect any lesser play from the DT.

There is a risk having Eli a year older....but every other aspect of the offense improved. I for one will never vote against Eli when things matter most.

If we can stay as healthy as last year....I like our chances in the NFC
A team is more than the sum of its parts, so we tend to evaluate  
plato : 9/4/2017 8:49 pm : link
Changes in Individual talent and judge overall improvement. I'm afraid loss of Hankins may have greater overall effect than loss of a single DT might predict. On offense same 5 OL playing together again may be better than individuals. How well new TE's and FB contribute to total running and blocking improvement should be a plus but may take time to integrate given the decrease in practice time.

I have learned its very hard to predict the future, even in areas where I am very competent. I was surprised at 11/5 last year, I would be shocked if we got that close this season, but that's why they play the games.
RE: I don't know that they're much improved  
OntheRoad : 9/4/2017 8:58 pm : link
In comment 13583772 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Lost Hankins added Thompson and Tomlinson.

Otherwise D is pretty much the same

Darian Thompson and BJ Goodson should both be noticeable upgrades. And you would think a year's experience individually and as a unit would be a plus for a young team.
RE: RE: I don't know that they're much improved  
pjcas18 : 9/4/2017 9:00 pm : link
In comment 13583993 OntheRoad said:
Quote:
In comment 13583772 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Lost Hankins added Thompson and Tomlinson.

Otherwise D is pretty much the same



Darian Thompson and BJ Goodson should both be noticeable upgrades. And you would think a year's experience individually and as a unit would be a plus for a young team.


Thompson, until proven otherwise is a ?. I thought Andrew Adams looked pretty good, how much of a noticeable upgrade will Thompson be?

Agree on Goodson though. He could certainly upgrade Kelvin Sheppard.
Now that McAdoo  
PEEJ : 9/4/2017 9:03 pm : link
has actual TEs and a fullback, I think (and hope) we'll see a lot more of his playbook.
Likewise, by having the bulk of his defense back, Spags will be able to open his bag of tricks,

I'm very optimistic
Definitely better in a lot of spots  
Jimmy Googs : 9/4/2017 9:11 pm : link
but no so much on Oline, and that is where we were the weakest last year so you do the math...
Time of possession  
go-big-blue : 9/4/2017 9:57 pm : link
T.O.P. could be the key to increased success. If they can simply sustain a few longer drives during a game, and improve conversion to points slightly from last year, the defense will be on the field less and perhaps improve statistically because of that. If the opposition is under more pressure to score that works in the Giants D favor.
As I've said a thousand times, the talent at the skill positions  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/4/2017 9:59 pm : link
was as big a problem as the offensive line. 3 of the Giants' top 7 (non-QB) skill position players in snaps played last season are now unemployed and a 4th, Will Tye, went from starter to the waiver wire. That improvement will clearly make a difference. With the defense, our offense doesn't have to be great, but they do need to score more points, extend drives with more first downs, and be better in the red zone. The offensive line is still the biggest issue on the team, but there's no reason there shouldn't be real improvement on the offense.
same to slightly better in a few positions  
micky : 9/4/2017 10:00 pm : link
last season got lucky with health. That could be a factor this year.

improvement in wr's. Marshall for cruz. te's slightly better with ellison for tye. Engram is a unknown til actually games, looks promising though.

loss of Hankins (good chemistry with snacks) may or may not be a factor til game time. If Bromley actually does show something this season as rotation player..then not a factor losing Hanks as much imo

cb depth may be slightly better..have to see.

RB are same or a drop off a bit imo

Eli another year older..if he just managed games and limited his mistakes then he'll get them to where they want to be. still lost a touch on ball and has to be aware he's not what he used to be in that aspect.Stay healthy is my concern with breakdowns on ol..hits this stage may not bounce up like past.


The roster is much better but injury luck is always an equalizer  
Eric on Li : 9/4/2017 10:02 pm : link
assuming similarly great health luck to last year if this isn't 12+ win team I don't know what is. It's always possible individual players regress but every unit is stronger than it was last year.
We're going to find out  
UberAlias : 9/4/2017 10:02 pm : link
Soon enough.
RE: same to slightly better in a few positions  
arcarsenal : 9/4/2017 10:03 pm : link
In comment 13584056 micky said:
Quote:
last season got lucky with health. That could be a factor this year.

improvement in wr's. Marshall for cruz. te's slightly better with ellison for tye. Engram is a unknown til actually games, looks promising though.

loss of Hankins (good chemistry with snacks) may or may not be a factor til game time. If Bromley actually does show something this season as rotation player..then not a factor losing Hanks as much imo

cb depth may be slightly better..have to see.

RB are same or a drop off a bit imo

Eli another year older..if he just managed games and limited his mistakes then he'll get them to where they want to be. still lost a touch on ball and has to be aware he's not what he used to be in that aspect.Stay healthy is my concern with breakdowns on ol..hits this stage may not bounce up like past.



How could there be a dropoff among the RB's? All we lost is Jennings who was awful last year and had zero interest from any other team. Vereen is healthy, Perkins has a year under his belt, and we drafted Gallman.

Not sure how any type of logic would call for a decline.
RE: RE: same to slightly better in a few positions  
micky : 9/4/2017 10:17 pm : link
In comment 13584061 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13584056 micky said:


Quote:


last season got lucky with health. That could be a factor this year.

improvement in wr's. Marshall for cruz. te's slightly better with ellison for tye. Engram is a unknown til actually games, looks promising though.

loss of Hankins (good chemistry with snacks) may or may not be a factor til game time. If Bromley actually does show something this season as rotation player..then not a factor losing Hanks as much imo

cb depth may be slightly better..have to see.

RB are same or a drop off a bit imo

Eli another year older..if he just managed games and limited his mistakes then he'll get them to where they want to be. still lost a touch on ball and has to be aware he's not what he used to be in that aspect.Stay healthy is my concern with breakdowns on ol..hits this stage may not bounce up like past.





How could there be a dropoff among the RB's? All we lost is Jennings who was awful last year and had zero interest from any other team. Vereen is healthy, Perkins has a year under his belt, and we drafted Gallman.

Not sure how any type of logic would call for a decline.


your banking a lot on Vereen being healthy as yet to be shown. gallman unknown. Perkins needs to take it on his dhoulders and improvement. drop off yeah maybe not but same..yes. if Vereen and gsellman contribute ..then I'll say improved..have to see
Except that Vereen IS healthy, unless you know something we don't.  
Klaatu : 9/4/2017 10:21 pm : link
Jennings was awful last year. That's why he's not on a team this year. Perkins, Gallman, and yes, even Darkwa are massive improvements.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/4/2017 10:23 pm : link
Vereen had a torn bicep - it's not really an injury that requires him to re-establish himself. It wasn't a knee injury. Unless he re-injures himself, he's going to be an important part of this offense just like he was in 2015 when he caught about 60 balls.
Well,  
Doomster : 9/4/2017 10:41 pm : link
The OL is the same....the OL coach is the same....will better blocking TE's and a FB, make a difference in the passing and running game?

Does Marshall still have it?

Is OBj's ankle going to be a problem?

Are we putting too much pressure on Double E to produce right away? But I don't think Eli will hesitate to throw to him, even if he is a rookie...

We do not have a real veteran presence as a bell cow.....Perkins is the chosen one.....Gallman is a rookie that may or may not show dividends as the season progresses....how can you have confidence in Darkwa with his track record? Vereen is a third down back, not a bell cow...

But, it really all comes down to Eli....with a more imaginative offense, and hopefully healthy weapons, I believe Eli is ready for a special year, stat wise....

Defensively, we lost Hankins.....Bromley is hurt, and Thomas has not had more than 5 tackles in a season...add the rookie Tomlinson, and you have an area opposing teams will try to exploit...

Our LB'ers are average at best......none of them is a true blitzer....can Goodson be effective in the middle? Our three corners and SS are top shelf! This is basically Thompson's rookie season again....can he stay out there? He has the advantage of knowing this defense and should not be lost out there......

So is this a better team? On paper yes....I disagree that we are any stronger with our subs....key to this season is our starters staying on the field, and if injured, just for a short period of time....

Wing was ok last season, and I was impressed on how he handled a lot of bad snaps on fg attempts in preseason.....Rosas is a rookie.....preseason is one thing.....but the real season is when it counts, so he is an unknown in that respect.....

I think the defense will play the same, and the offense will be better...even with tougher schedule and west coast games.......

I expect this team to win the Division, and get a first round bye....
Can ya FEEL it??  
x meadowlander : 9/4/2017 10:49 pm : link
C'mon - yeah, the entire team is improved, how much?

So much, that it's back - confidence. Been gone for FIVE long years, 5 years of Eli playing scared, Swiss cheese o-lines, historically awful injury counts, inconsistency abound.

Last year, the GIANT D returned and this preseason we saw genuine flashes.

How much better? 12+ win territory, IMO.

That defense was and IS the real thing, JPP, Collins, Harrison - pro bowlers all over the field on D and we finally have a solid MLB.

12+.

This team can go all the way.
The Force is strong with this team. I predict 12-4  
32_Razor : 9/4/2017 10:58 pm : link
record.
Super Bowl contender.  
Boy Cord : 9/5/2017 12:15 am : link
TE biggest upgrade. JPP and OV rave reviews in preseason. Top 5 at WR, DB, DL, if not top 2. Team is more physical on offense. Can Landon Collins progress even more? If so, DPOY. Brandon Marshall >>> WR2 past two years. Hart showed improvement in preseason. I'm feelin great.
On paper, they're much better  
PHX Giants Fan : 9/5/2017 12:17 am : link
Jerry / front office did a nice job of improving most units, especially WR, TE and LB, and moving on from the right (or wrong) players. It's very telling that few, if any, released players have jobs today.

This team is deep on both sides and could withstand inevitable injuries. OL and RB still are question marks. Can Flowers and Perkins step up? If both are at least serviceable we should go far this year.
Better,  
Go Terps : 9/5/2017 1:53 am : link
but the schedule is worse and I wouldn't count on the same good health. If they have another healthy year I would, in their shoes, invest some time and money into a top to bottom look at what was done differently in these two years than those prior. It can't just be Wellman... If it is, he deserves to be one of the highest paid people associated with the team.

I predict 9-7, but slanting better. 11-5/12-4 is definitely possible.
RE: RE: Not every roster spot on this team  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/5/2017 2:04 am : link
In comment 13583940 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13583903 Hereditaryemperor said:


Quote:


will be perfection


The team should hire you. You're always full of invigorating information.


This sarcastic? I agreed with you on the other thread man. Great minds think alike.
First  
Dragon : 9/5/2017 5:01 am : link
Six games will tell the story did we really improve or just sugar cote many prior faults.

Question 1, will the JPP we saw in the preseason last for the whole season.

Question 2, JPP looked great but Vernon is still not making enough impact plays.

Question 3, Is the secondary as good as it appeared to be during the preseason?

Question 4, we signed a blocking TE, drafted a receiving TE then kept a blocking FB not sure who is going to prove more valuable to this offense.

Question 5, can this offense led by Eli turn the switch on or are we still a wet powder keg on offense for long stretches of games.

Question 6, will this team go into Dallas and destroy what should be a truly inferior opponent even without OBJ?

Question 7, can they perform question number 6 and then not fall asleep at the wheel in week 2 against the Lions?

Question 8, the Giants should be the best team in the NFC East now can they prove that to themselves and everyone else?
Better !  
Fred-in-Florida : 9/5/2017 6:10 am : link
The offense has improved.

TE which was a major weakness last year looks to be a strength this year. This is tied into poor OL play. Additional blocking with Ellison and Engram, and from the FB position (Smith) should help the run game. The receiving of Engram will/should help open things up in the middle of the field.

Marshall should be an improvement over Cruz, but he's not getting any younger. The expectation for Cruz was great but so is the expectation for Marshall. Was last year an indication that he's in decline or was it injuries and poor QB play the reason for lower numbers.

A healthy Vereen will add a dimension that wasn't there last year. Will Perkins grow to be that 3rd down back.

The OL is still a weekness. I'm more concerned about Richburg than I am Flowers and Hart. He was pushed back too much during preseason. Hopefully with the addition of blocking TE and Fullback the 2 'bookends' will get some help. Jerry, well nothing to say there.

The defense is still one of the better ones in the league (They're my FF defense show they'd better be). I think they can be even better. Adams has a year of experience and Thompson is back from injury, improving that safety position. Goodson looks to be an upgrade in the middle. At this juncture Robinson's concussion is concerning. Tomlinson and Bromley will more that make up for the loss of Hankins.

The schedule is tough and seems there are a lot of games where we're playing teams coming of bye's.

I agree much better on both sides  
Matt M. : 9/5/2017 6:42 am : link
But because of their schedule and their OL, I don't think much better record wise. Maybe another 11 win season, which is dependent on how many of thone 11 come in their division and how well Dallas does to determine who wins the division.
Only better on offense if  
gmenatlarge : 9/5/2017 9:04 am : link
they open things up more and vary their formations a bit. If they run out of that same formation every freaking play it will negate some of the personnel improvements and we will be slogging through games again. Need to open this offense up and help out the D so we aren't sweating the ends of games like last year!!!
Night to day  
trueblueinpw : 9/5/2017 9:46 am : link
The offense was so bad last year! But just like the defense went from zero to hero last year with the infusion of playmakers at critical positions, this offense could - and should - have a similar transformation.

They might be "better"  
WideRight : 9/5/2017 9:46 am : link
But doing better than 11-5 isn't realistic.
Better team on paper  
JonC : 9/5/2017 9:59 am : link
We saw improvements in a number of areas of concern : Flowers, TE, MIKE, FS and overall depth. Another thing to consider is this is still a very young team, what will its critical mass for 2017 be by year's end. Not too hard to suggest there are reasons for optimism.

Problems figure to be the difficult schedule, can they run the football and protect Eli, can the team finish the close games as they did a year ago.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/5/2017 9:59 am : link
Better on offense with the additions of Marshall, Engram, & Ellison. The OL is the huge ? mark.

On defense, they're stacked.

So much comes down to health/when you're playing certain opponents.
Last season I thought  
geemanfan : 9/5/2017 10:34 am : link
We made enough changes on Defense to move them to the middle of the pack and they went top 5. This year I think the Offense made enough changes to get to middle of the pack but won't be surprised if the same thing happens. This also looks like an elite Defense, so we will be better.
How can they not be better of offense vs. 2016....  
Racer : 9/5/2017 10:50 am : link
...when Cruz, Donnell and Jennings were on the top of the depth chart in week 1?
if our O line plays at the same level they did last year  
Jersey55 : 9/5/2017 10:53 am : link
then I think we can expect the same results if we're as lucky as we were last season.
By position  
njm : 9/5/2017 10:53 am : link
QB - Same
RB - Same, maybe a little deeper
WR - Better but not a lot better
TE - MUCH better
OL - Same, the concern
DE - Better health so slightly better
DT - Same
LB - Same
CB - Same
S - Upgrade at FS, Collins is Collins
ST - Same


I think Hankins was a bigger loss than most.  
BrettNYG10 : 9/5/2017 10:59 am : link
I expect a comparable record, but feel better about the team's ability to win games in the playoffs.
In general, I think they're better on both sides of the ball.  
Beezer : 9/5/2017 11:02 am : link
One very important spot, though, where I have no idea - offensive line.

Not rocket science.

I'm hopeful that continuity will win the day and the line will come together as a solid unit.

One area I'm also not sure about - running back. Hard for me to gauge whether or not it's an upgrade, the same, or a small step back. At least they're younger, with potential.

I'm pretty optimistic about this team.
better  
idiotsavant : 9/5/2017 11:24 am : link
caveat, manning in preseason made some plays despite missed pass pro blocks by, for example, the RBs.

gotta get that sorted out. why I am fine with having a fullback also
I think that making the playoffs is only great  
Jersey55 : 9/5/2017 4:22 pm : link
if you go all the way and win the SB, other than that all it will do is give you a much lower pick in the draft.....
On defense, continuity is king  
adamg : 9/5/2017 4:30 pm : link
Plus the additions of Thompson and Goodson give us much more versatility as a unit, with a higher ceiling MLB and an alternative playmaker in the safety spot.

On offense, the additions of Marshall, Ellison, and Engram and the subtractions of Cruz and Jennings combined with the continuity on the OL with seemingly improved play on the edges, I expect a totally new and improved unit. Marshall's effect can't be overstated. That dude is going to be a huge lift both in the red zone and elsewhere if teams ignore him too frequently.
Better...  
Ed A. : 9/5/2017 5:36 pm : link
on Defense and much better on offense despite the OL. Only real loss on D is Hankins. Tomlinson will make us all forget Hank by the 4th or 5th game and Bromley and Thomas seem improved, The addition of Darian Thomas at FS is huge IMO.
On Offense, Marshall, Engram and Ellison are major upgrades. A year of experience will make Shepard an even greater weapon then last season. Lacosse (sp) will be an additional asset. Perkins should become much better with the year of experience. However, health is the joker in the deck. If injuries to key players are average, I am expecting a very successful year.
it will take some sort of fuck up  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/5/2017 6:29 pm : link
to make this team bad

they should beat Dallas and, especially the Eagles into the ground
RE: I think the team is a little better  
Rover : 9/5/2017 8:00 pm : link
In comment 13583961 stockton said:
Quote:
but I agree with the other posters that say it won't show up in the W/L. Or if it does it is only 1 game.

Winning 11+ games isn't easy in the NFL. So the Giants could win the same number of games but increase their point differential and fewer games going down to the wire.

That said, most every fan base thinks their team improved except for the 3-6 teams tanking for a top pick. So it isn't like this question tends to lead to a lot of useful answers.

Agreed, Giants are better, but so is their schedule.
Barring severe injuries or the unexpected development (positive or negative) I see them at the 9 to 11 win range.
Better  
Rolyrock : 9/5/2017 11:10 pm : link
The overall health of the team, especially on D. And JPP is looking dominant.
I was very encouraged by the  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/6/2017 8:25 am : link
way the first team offense woke up in game three of preseason without Beckham and Marshall playing -- Ellison, Engram, Smith and Perkins are all huge upgrades - Perkins showed that he just needs to get work to get in a rhythm in that game -- Flowers and Hart played in an improved fashion -- Fluker and this year's version of Jones are better backups for the Oline than we've had in a while - indeed both could be starters without the line going backwards.

The defense does not look to have missed a beat without Hankins. OV, JPP, Snacks and Collins all look like they're on a ballistic mission and the rest of the defense is feeding off of it.

Let's get on with the season --- GO GIANTS!!!!

I don't know that the'll be "much" better defensively -  
Section331 : 9/6/2017 9:23 am : link
I actually expect them to fall back a little - but they are significantly better on the other side of the ball. That said, I think they'll end up with the same record, but it should be enough to win the division.
if we can run the football with any consistency  
Jersey55 : 9/7/2017 10:59 am : link
this season then I think the sky is the limit but if we can't then it will be the same as last year and we will struggle for every point we get....
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