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Second year: Dak Prescott

Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 5:58 am
Does everyone (like me) think that this guy will be a flash in the pan?

Usually these type of runner QBs who don't win the games by themselves turn out to be anything. You think teams will figure him out already by year number two? I hope the NY Giants defense and Spags puts the hurting on him. He's annoying and I am sick and tired of hearing about him. I keep telling Cowboy fans he's gonna be a bust.

I hope I am right but we have seen this numerous times. The only reason Cowboys were so good and quick to be good last year was basically because of that line. Am I off here? I know you guys know way more stuff than i do and spending your time knowing the ins and the outs of the game. I respect all of that so much.

I don't think he will be the starter of the Cowboys in 5 years..
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If Davis Webb  
Gman11 : 9/7/2017 10:23 am : link
started and the team went 13-3 you'd be nominating him for the Hall of Fame right now. Why can't some people admit that there are good players on other teams, even on the rivals?
I didnt see anything  
RinR : 9/7/2017 10:27 am : link
from Dak last year not to think he is going to continue to improve. If you subscribe to "you are only as good as your last game" then he was very good. But, imo I think he improved as the year went on which is key.

Those expecting Dak to fall off a cliff this season are going to be disappointed.
I think  
Doomster : 9/7/2017 10:27 am : link
Dak and Wentz are going to be pains in the ass of Giants, for years to come.....

After Eli is gone, we are going to have to be very lucky finding the next Guy.....Webb? Wishful thinking.....

I think the Legend of Eli will continue to grow, as pretenders to the crown come and go....

When you think about what Accorsi did, all he he gave up to get Eli, and how it all worked out.....the stars were in the correct alignment.....it took a move like that to get the QB we needed.....

Will the stars have to line up again, or will someone just fall into our lap? Only time will tell.....
RE: I feel Wentz is the bigger threat.  
djm : 9/7/2017 10:28 am : link
In comment 13586846 George from PA said:
Quote:
Can not pinpoint the issue but feel Prescott is a fraud. Way too inaccurate imo


I have seen this take a lot and don't know where it comes from. Wentz MIGHT be good one day. Maybe he's great one day but he was a wet nosed sloppy rookie last year. He showed something but not a whole lot. Meanwhile, Dak played excellent football through most of last season.

I know Dak had the OL and Zeke and all that but I still think it's weird to see so many people claim that Wentz will be the better QB. He's got miles and miles to go before he even approaches what Dak did last year. One guy has to elevate his game in a big way while the other has to regress considerably.

I'll believe in Dak's demise when I see it. I pray he isn't another Russell Wilson. The same Wilson that many predicted would suck now. Still waiting for that...
RE: RE: Weirdo stuff here  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13587045 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13586980 Hereditaryemperor said:


Quote:


Wentz had a good year?

How so? You can't compare Eli's seasons to Wentz's first few seasons. The league changed so much since those 11 years. Now rookie QBs can come in and shine like a ruby and he didn't even look good. He shined against the awful Bears, Browns and terrible Steelers defense.

Then, when he faced real defenses like Seattle, Baltimore, Minnesota, and even the NY Giants (especially the NY Giants) he looked like shit. I think he had a shitty game vs Cincinnati in there too.

Ok he had a few games vs a bunch of shitty teams but that is it. The pushing and boosting for Wentz is beyond hilarious.


He was a rookie. It was a very good rookie year.

Your dupe game is still weak, Ernstern.


Yet you have nothing to back up how it was a good rookie year...

I had stats to back up he didn't. He a few good games vs of weak defenses/bad teams. The Bears went 3-13, the Browns won A game last year.

-HeredityEmpire
RE: Wentz didn't suck  
djm : 9/7/2017 10:32 am : link
In comment 13586884 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Like Prescott was inconsistent and was made to look amateur when faced good defenses with a good plan. Both could be good for a long time.


Dak had literally one bad game all of 2016 and it came against a nasty NYG team in their own house. He was nothing like Wentz and Wentz was nothing like Dak. There's no comparison. Dak made big boy plays all year long and contrary to myth made plays from the pocket.

He could regress. But don't bet on it. I don't think he's going to throw 26 and 4 but I wouldn't expect him Dak to lose his grip on things. He looks poised to be a legit QB for a long time. I'd make peace with that if I was like some of you.
RE: Throwing Receivers Open  
djm : 9/7/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13586995 GiantsFanPatsLand said:
Quote:
I feel like the main reason people think that Dax is a fraud is that he doesnt throw his receivers open and takes the plays that defenses give him.


This I agree with. We will see how bold Dak is over the long haul. He did in fact take what was given last year, but more often than not this was enough.

Agree with Matt  
Bluesbreaker : 9/7/2017 11:24 am : link
Wentz didn't suck
mattlawson : 8:21 am : link : reply
Like Prescott was inconsistent and was made to look amateur when faced good defenses with a good plan. Both could be good for a long time.

Dak was much better than most would have thought .
If we had drafted him he would have had to sit for a few years but he looks good early this year he could be a huge steal for the Boys won't have to pay him a ton right away .
RE: RE: Throwing Receivers Open  
Dan in the Springs : 9/7/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13586995 GiantsFanPatsLand said:
Quote:

I feel like the main reason people think that Dax is a fraud is that he doesnt throw his receivers open and takes the plays that defenses give him.


This is by design. You should read this article by The Ringer about the Run-Pass option and how the Cowboys and many other teams are using it effectively.

There is nothing wrong with taking what the defense is giving you. A coach up in Boston is famous for using this strategy to an extreme, forcing defenses to give up their original game plan or beating them to death if they refuse.

Dallas has done a very good job of building a very effective offense that requires a quick thrower with great decision making skills and above average athleticism. Dak has all of those things. Defenses will have to find ways to force Dak into mistakes, and so far they have really struggled to do so.
I don't think he's a flash in the pan...  
Klaatu : 9/7/2017 11:41 am : link
And I won't hold his draft status against him. The DUI right before the draft certainly didn't help his cause.

He's a good QB. He showed that last year when everyone was dismissing his preseason performance as "just preseason." Underrate him at your own peril. I won't, and I hope the Giants won't, either.
I think both Prescott and Wentz will be good for a long time  
j_rud : 9/7/2017 11:51 am : link
Long term I give the edge to Wentz. Prescott was more of a game manager and had the benefit of that OL and running game. And that's not intended to take anything away from him. He did what was asked and the stage wasn't too big for him. It was similar to Roethlisburgers rookie season. He was handed the keys to a Ferrari and told "just don't roll the thing". He seems to have a good head on his shoulders and is by all accounts a hard worker. Can he make the jump from caretaker to focal point? We'll see, but there's nothing glaring that suggests he won't be able to.

As for Wentz, unfortunately I think this guy has all the makings of a franchise QB. He was asked to do a lot last year. Outside of Ertz had no one to throw to. And he couldn't lean on a running game either. He averaged 37 attempts a week and was regularly asked to go win games, not just manage them. He was also playing for a first year coach who was figuring things out on the fly as well. The results were mixed but, in truth, much better than you would have thought taking all those things into account. He checks all the boxes physically and has a great arm. He also seems to be mentally tough and a leader. In year two they have much better weapons at receiver and the running game should be better. I think Wentz's first year struggles will serve him much better than Prescott's first year successes.

I think Dak will have a nice career, but I think Wentz is going to be a pain in the ass for a long time.
I think the league will figure out how to scheme for him  
Heisenberg : 9/7/2017 11:58 am : link
The trouble that teams will have is keeping him inn 3rd and long while Zeke is on the team. It's also not clear how close this year's line is to last year's line.

Prescott is a good mobile athlete,  
MOOPS : 9/7/2017 12:04 pm : link
but he's a pass first quarterback. He can go through his progressions. He's intelligent. He already has a Masters Degree.
I think he'll be able to handle whatever increased load they throw at him.
Definitely not a flash in the pan.
the worst thing about Dak  
santacruzom : 9/7/2017 12:09 pm : link
is that his favorite song is Drops of Jupiter by Train.
RE: RE: RE: Throwing Receivers Open  
GiantsFanPatsLand : 9/7/2017 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13587143 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13586995 GiantsFanPatsLand said:

Quote:



I feel like the main reason people think that Dax is a fraud is that he doesnt throw his receivers open and takes the plays that defenses give him.




This is by design. You should read this article by The Ringer about the Run-Pass option and how the Cowboys and many other teams are using it effectively.

There is nothing wrong with taking what the defense is giving you. A coach up in Boston is famous for using this strategy to an extreme, forcing defenses to give up their original game plan or beating them to death if they refuse.

Dallas has done a very good job of building a very effective offense that requires a quick thrower with great decision making skills and above average athleticism. Dak has all of those things. Defenses will have to find ways to force Dak into mistakes, and so far they have really struggled to do so.


Not saying that it is necessarily a bad thing but I think teams are adapting to this and making him beat them.
I see Prescott being the next BobIII or the next Colon Crap-o-Pick.  
SterlingArcher : 9/7/2017 12:33 pm : link
If the Giants can build a lead and force Prescott to beat them with his arm they win easily.
I hate all the Dallas Hype too  
nicky43 : 9/7/2017 12:37 pm : link
But as long time Giants fans we should be used to that by now. And as much as I hate to say nice things about the cowboys I think Dak is the real deal. What impressed me the most about his Rookie year is how calm cool collected and grounded he was as a starter for a very highly publicized team.

He never seemed to get nervous out there nor did he ever appear lost. I'm in the camp that believes the mental side of the athlete is the key to a great foundation if the body is a match for the sport and position. I think Dak will do well and have another very good year. That said, I don't think the cowboys will do as well as they did last year as they still are very weak on the D line and in the backfield.

The Eagles scare me more but I think we may be the best in our division. But but but..... we have a terrible schedule and unfortunately about 20% of the game results do depend on how the ball bounces and how the refs call the games.

Very interesting thread to read.
Dak looked impressive in preseason vs Colts  
joe48 : 9/7/2017 12:44 pm : link
With the protection of their OL and their running game Dak is in a great situation. He was a game manager last year and this year Garrett will open the playbook. He has the tools and the advantage of a great supporting cast.
Wentz struggled last year, but to be fair,  
Section331 : 9/7/2017 1:15 pm : link
his receivers were absolute garbage. Let's see how he does with a decent WR corps; I'm concerned he actually might be pretty good. I think what will hold Philly back is that Pederson is an idiot.

I also expected Dak to regress this year, and I know it was only preseason, but he looked really in command this summer. I think he might be legit.
RE: I see Prescott being the next BobIII or the next Colon Crap-o-Pick.  
Giantology : 9/7/2017 1:20 pm : link
In comment 13587239 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
If the Giants can build a lead and force Prescott to beat them with his arm they win easily.


Prescott plays nothing like Griffin or Kaepernick. Where are you getting these comparisons from?
RE: What I do disagree with  
Section331 : 9/7/2017 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13587002 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Is the notion from the OP that Dak will struggle this year because he's a "running QB". I don't think Dak will struggle this year, and I don't think he's a running QB.


Certainly no more than Aaron Rodgers, Marcus Mariotta and Blake Bortles are "running QB's", all had more rushing attempts than Dak last year. I hate to say it, but just because the guy is black doesn't make him a running QB.
Or,  
Big Blue '56 : 9/7/2017 1:25 pm : link
he could be the real goods
RE: RE: I see Prescott being the next BobIII or the next Colon Crap-o-Pick.  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13587291 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 13587239 SterlingArcher said:


Quote:


If the Giants can build a lead and force Prescott to beat them with his arm they win easily.



Prescott plays nothing like Griffin or Kaepernick. Where are you getting these comparisons from?


They both necessarily don't win games for you and have to be carried by your team. They're all not exactly the long term answers at QB, like the way Rg3 and Colin were.
RE: RE: RE: I see Prescott being the next BobIII or the next Colon Crap-o-Pick.  
Giantology : 9/7/2017 2:17 pm : link
In comment 13587365 Hereditaryemperor said:
Quote:
In comment 13587291 Giantology said:


Quote:


In comment 13587239 SterlingArcher said:


Quote:


If the Giants can build a lead and force Prescott to beat them with his arm they win easily.



Prescott plays nothing like Griffin or Kaepernick. Where are you getting these comparisons from?



They both necessarily don't win games for you and have to be carried by your team. They're all not exactly the long term answers at QB, like the way Rg3 and Colin were.


Well friend, Prescott had 4 fourth quarter comeback drives and 5 game winning drives in his rookie season. That's more than either of them ever had in a season.

Yes, he has a talented OL and running game to rely on- with arguably a much less talented defense than either RG3 or Kaep had in their "prime"

He could very well flame out and not have the same success he had last year. That's how the NFL goes sometimes. But he's not a similar player in terms of style to RG3 or Kaep and has shown glimpses of being a proficient pocket passer, something those 2 you're comparing them to rarely did.
Nick Foles had a season where he threw 27 TDs to 2 INTs  
Greg from LI : 9/7/2017 2:27 pm : link
Let Prescott do it again before anyone concludes that he's for real.
RE: Nick Foles had a season where he threw 27 TDs to 2 INTs  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13587389 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Let Prescott do it again before anyone concludes that he's for real.


Yup...End of deal
Good points Giant  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 2:45 pm : link
but do you really read into the whole 4th quarter comeback thing

My main issue here is i don't think he'll be a starter for all these years, he might get figured out and look average and then completely worthless

(in the same sense CK did)
Yea, I think you are off  
Glover : 9/7/2017 3:16 pm : link
He did a nice job last season. He is a top 15 QB IMO right now, and I think he will be better. I dont find him annoying at all really. He's relatively humble. Yes his O line made him better than he would have been had he been behind an average or below average O line. As long as that run game is working he can move around and throw short to intermediate passes with good accuracy, but he is not very good when the game is solely in his hands. That really only happened against the Giants last season, and we know how that went. He's pretty good, but will never be the kind of QB who could bring a team back from a 10 or more point lead.
So he's Russel Wilson  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 4:44 pm : link
?

Minus that GB comeback game where literally everything went Seattle's way in a ridiculous fashion. I cannot think of one time that overrated clown ever wasn't carried by his defense. Imagine him being the QB of the Giants?
I'm not saying I hate the guy at all  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 4:46 pm : link
or he sucks or anything, I just can see him being out of the league or a back up by 2020. I don't get what there is to be excited about. Maybe I'm just biased here.
RE: I'm not saying I hate the guy at all  
Dan in the Springs : 9/7/2017 5:50 pm : link
In comment 13587595 Hereditaryemperor said:
Quote:
or he sucks or anything, I just can see him being out of the league or a back up by 2020. I don't get what there is to be excited about. Maybe I'm just biased here.


Put me in the group that thinks you're biased. If you've really watched Russell Wilson play consistently and think he hasn't made plays to win his teams games, and that except one game he has only won because of his defense, you're missing something. He's a serious playmaker.

You sound just like the people who say Eli has never done anything on his own - relies on his defense to win games. They have a bias against Eli just like you have a bias against Wilson.

Not sure why you answered a question to SterlingArcher either, but your comparison of Dak to RGIII and CK is eyebrow-raising as well. You say it's because he doesn't necessarily win games for you and he isn't the QB of the future. Really? How do you know that? It's clear that he's led the team to victory and played at a very high level in this league. What is it about his game that makes it unlikely he can continue to play at a high level? He doesn't take a ton of shots running around like RG3.
But every game Russel Wilson plays in is a defensive  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 6:42 pm : link
struggle. Let us not pretend Seattle hasn't had a top 5 defense since he's been their QB? Not only that, he had Marshawn Lynch all of those early years.
RE: But every game Russel Wilson plays in is a defensive  
Dan in the Springs : 9/7/2017 7:01 pm : link
In comment 13587667 Hereditaryemperor said:
Quote:
struggle. Let us not pretend Seattle hasn't had a top 5 defense since he's been their QB? Not only that, he had Marshawn Lynch all of those early years.


So what? Is that how we evaluate an individual player's performance or contribution? Sometimes the QB is the best playmaker on the team.

Yes, Lynch was a tremendous runner and the strength of those offenses, but it's not like Wilson doesn't make, plays on his own, all the time. Watching the games it's crazy how often he is able to make plays, seemingly on his own.

He's smart, makes good decisions and uses his athleticism wisely. Dak appears to be similar in that regard.

Can't really say the same thing for CK or RG3.
Dak is way more Wilson  
UConn4523 : 9/7/2017 7:05 pm : link
than he is Griffin or Kaepernick. The question is what can he do when the running game isn't on. I'd say it's more likely that he gets a bit better than a bit worse, but we will definitely find out soon, especially when elliot serves his suspension. I'm not sold on his back ups just picking up the load; McFadden is old and breaks down and Morris is a JAG. The difference between Elliot and those two is enormous.
Dak looks good in his first preseason and BBI says  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2017 7:08 pm : link
"Let's see what happens when the real bullets fly".

Dak looks good during the regular season and BBI says "Well who wouldn't behind that Oline and running game".

Dak looks good in tight playoff loss to Green Bay and BBI says "Aaron Rodgers is best QB in game."

Dak looks good in preseason #2 and on the eve of the regular season BBI says "he was a flash in pants and won't even be in the league soon".

Moral of the story, we may have played well against him and Dallas last season but let's give Dak his due...
Dude  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 7:28 pm : link
everyone was up CK's ass after his first year when he lost in the SB, just like RG3, I think they were looking for the NFL to have a running QB (like Newton) and a threat to pass (like Newton) until...NEwton came around.

It was the same with Vick, it was the same with Cordell Stewart. My thing here is I am trying to say is I like the traditional pocket passer QBs.

Guys like Russell Wilson can be cute because he has a good defense, good running game (yes himself in included) and that loud stadium behind him. He more so lucked out into where he plays than that system fitting him Id say.

If he was a QB for Cleveland he'd suck on his own.

The dude barely lifted a finger in the Super Bowl they won (or any of his playoff games really from 2013)
Russell Wilson is  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 7:32 pm : link
a glorified game manager
It's fine to prefer a pocket passer, I do to  
UConn4523 : 9/7/2017 7:39 pm : link
but you are wrong on Wilson. You are essentially calling him Alex Smith. Wilson can, has and will make plays Alex Smith couldn't pull off in Madden.
No, Alex Smith is THE game manager  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 9:12 pm : link
Russell Wilson is a notch above him. Not that that is saying much.

I mean well, yeah him and Smith both put up the same kinds of numbers. Again, Seattle just has a way better defense to lend a helping hand to Wilson. I mean Seattle wasn't just a top 5 defense, they were a # 1 or # 2...defense..So, I mean you can call Wilson what he is. those are just the facts.
Imagine Prescott or Wentz  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 9:14 pm : link
behind Giants offensive line?
Alex Smith  
UConn4523 : 9/7/2017 9:19 pm : link
had two 20+ TD seasons and never sniffed 4,000 yards. He's had some very good defenses in KC and SF over the years, some among the top 2 or 3.

Wilson has 5 straight 20+ TD season including a 34 passing TD season and has increased his passing yards each year, eclipsing 4k the last 2 years. He's more than a notch above Alex Smith, much more.

This whole defense thing is weird. A good QB is a good QB. I can argue Wilsons stats would be better if he had a shitty defense.
Again notching Alex Smith or being slightly better than him  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 9:32 pm : link
isn't anything to be boastful about. In this modern day NFL theres nothing about Russell Wilsons stats that jump out at you compared to the others, Rodgers, Brady, or even ones like Eli or Luck who need to play from behind over the years. Wilson's stats just cleaner.

He hardly ever has to play from behind and the one time he did, he looked like shit vs the Packers and 59 things had to go his way for him to get the win, the Packers fucked it up royally and they got lucky and went to their second Super Bowl in a row.

I didn't say he sucks or anything, just think he's overrated and is shielded by a very good defense, good running game and that hard-to-play-in-stadium his rookie career was born into.

Would Alex Smith win a Super Bowl with Seattle if he were QB the entire time? Probably
No, he probably wouldn't  
UConn4523 : 9/7/2017 9:40 pm : link
he had the best defense in the NFL and couldn't make a play in the NFCC game against the Giants. Alex Smith isn't a QB you can win a Super Bowl with. Wilson is, and has, and he's improved each year he's been in the league.

I'm not even a big Wilson fan, you are just way off on this one. He's a top 10 QB with room to be higher on that list. Smith is nothing close to that.
He made that long run  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 10:08 pm : link
vs the Giants in the 2011 NFCCG to set them up in FG range
For the tying FG  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/7/2017 10:23 pm : link
and they lost in OT

What did Russell Wilson do that was so amazing in the 2013 or 2014 Super Bowl runs that stood out?
RE: For the tying FG  
santacruzom : 9/8/2017 12:35 am : link
In comment 13587879 Hereditaryemperor said:
Quote:
and they lost in OT

What did Russell Wilson do that was so amazing in the 2013 or 2014 Super Bowl runs that stood out?


You should go back and see how many deflating third down conversions he made in his SB win. His defense didn't have anything to do with them.
except score points for him  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/8/2017 12:54 am : link
Whats with perpetual Russel Wilson the Russell Wilson love?

The Broncos-Seahawks Super Bow?

-Knowshon Moreno Fumble Recovery In Own End Zone

-Malcolm Smith 69 Yard Interception Return

-Percy Harvin 87 Yard Kickoff Return
Even though Dak  
Mike from SI : 9/8/2017 3:02 am : link
has the ability to run, he's not a "running QB." He's not RG3. Unfortunately, he can develop into quite a good passer. I sincerely hope he doesn't.
RE: Alex Smith  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2017 7:20 am : link
In comment 13587810 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
had two 20+ TD seasons and never sniffed 4,000 yards. He's had some very good defenses in KC and SF over the years, some among the top 2 or 3.



Alix Smith Update:

28 of 35 for 352 yards, 4 Touchdowns and 0 Int in last's night dismantling of the Patriots in Foxoborough

RE: Even though Dak  
Hereditaryemperor : 9/8/2017 7:33 am : link
In comment 13588075 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
has the ability to run, he's not a "running QB." He's not RG3. Unfortunately, he can develop into quite a good passer. I sincerely hope he doesn't.


Didn't he have like 6 rushing TDs his first year?

OK hes not a running QB I take it back but will he be a Peyton, Eli, Rodgers, Brady? or even a Luck Rivers or Romo?
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