Second year: Dak Prescott

Can not pinpoint the issue but feel Prescott is a fraud. Way too inaccurate imo

longevity than Prescott will. I wasn't talking about Wentz though.

The way Wentz runs like a moron though with the ball, he should keep that up

I mean

Let's hope he stinks

However, I don't get why everyone overrates Wentz so much. To put it oh so silver-tongued; He sucked last year.

Nor will he ever really be a bust, he was a 4th round pick who has already shattered any expectations.

I don't know if he'll have the same success this year, but he looks like he'll be in Dallas for a long time.

The problem with running QBs I'd they can only run normally, not great pocket passers. That is something Dak understands, and has worked the entire off-season on being a better down field passer. He may have more INTs this year, as last year was probably a bit of a product of not pushing it down field much, but hopefully it opens up the offense. It's clearly a run first team, Dak must keep the offense on schedule, no 3rd longs and he will be fine. Still young.

And all that means in the NFL. All the reads, all the throws. Last year he was a great dink and dunk type when running half the playbook with a great running game. He obviously didn't impress against us. But he was a rookie then so let's see.

Like Prescott was inconsistent and was made to look amateur when faced good defenses with a good plan. Both could be good for a long time.

In comment 13586859 nccowboyfan said:

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The problem with running QBs I'd they can only run normally, not great pocket passers. That is something Dak understands, and has worked the entire off-season on being a better down field passer. He may have more INTs this year, as last year was probably a bit of a product of not pushing it down field much, but hopefully it opens up the offense. It's clearly a run first team, Dak must keep the offense on schedule, no 3rd longs and he will be fine. Still young.

That seems to be a fair assessment of Prescott. Truth is we don't know how good or bad he might be because he's got a good security blanket in that OL and RB, not to mention he's got one season under his belt. The tools seem to be there, though, and there's no reason he shouldn't at least be a good starting QB if not great.

In comment 13586852 Hereditaryemperor said:

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However, I don't get why everyone overrates Wentz so much. To put it oh so silver-tongued; He sucked last year.

Wentz sucked last year? That's not what the numbers say. In fact, to look at this objectively, let's compare his stats to Eli's.

Wentz Rookie Season (2016)
3,782 YD, 16 TD, 14 Int, 2.3% Int. %, 62.4% Completion %, 79.3 QBR

Eli First Full Season (2005)
3,762 YD, 24 TD, 17 Int, 3.1% Int. %, 52.8% Completion %, 75.9 QBR

With a 9 game rookie season and two training camps to prepare, Eli's 2nd year numbers were not as good as Wentz's rookie numbers.

Want more?

Eli also didn’t throw for as many yards as Wentz did in his rookie season until his 6th year.

Eli only surpassed Wentz’s completion percentage once in his first 10 years.

Eli didn’t surpass Wentz’s rookie QBR until year 5.

Eli’s rookie year interception percentage was exactly twice as bad as Wentz’s (4.6 vs. 2.3) and Eli’s career interception percentage is actually worse than Wentz’s rookie Int. % (3.2 vs. 2.3).

I know stats don’t tell the whole story and I’m not making the comparison to suggest that Eli sucks or that Wentz is better. I’m just trying to look at this objectively and not as a homer fan who overlooks the warts on my team’s QB and magnifies the warts of all our competitor’s QBs.

Who knows what the future holds for Wentz? But he’s got all the physical tools and if he was the Giants' QB you'd be singing his praises, not pretending that he sucks.

last year if he stays healthy -- he's a very mobile QB and makes good decisions -- he has a good oline and some great weapons -- but more teams will make book on him and he will become an injury risk as a mobile QB

However, I do not think he is a flash in the pan -- I think he is a good QB

for years. People expecting Prescott to have a sophomore slump have a good chance of being disappointed. He's talented. I'm not saying both will be superstars, but they both will at least be pretty damn good. Oh well like Parcells said 25 years ago about the Skins- "They're competition, we welcome competition".

will be exposed this year. Dallas OL not as good as it was and NFL is more aware of Prescott's weaknesses. The Jets were able to make Mark Sanchez look good handing off and throwing on first down his first two seasons. When Jets asked him to win games all the ugly came out. I see the same thing happening with Dak.

and that's not including Witten who is a very QB friendly player. Most QBs would drool over some of the pockets he's had to throw from.

Dak came in as a 4th round pick so no great expectations to perform right away and has as enviable an environment I can recall a QB working out of in a long while. A lot of players can thrive in very favorable environments -reference guys like Sanchez, Kaepernick, K Warner. But the truth is, you really don't know what you have in a QB until you've seen him face real adversity.

I'll defer my judgement on Dak until I see him tested in a more meaningful way. If I had to guess I would assume he'll be a good player for the Cowboys and continue having success as long as there are enough pieces around him. I'm guessing franchise QB, though not elite status.

Playing behind the same offensive line. I think he might be better.

Giants fans want to hopehe s a flash in the pan. We ll see.

Prescott will be, I feel, a serviceable QB for the Cowboys and dammit if I'm not jealous and pissed that they continue to have luck passing the mantle since Aikman.

Prescott will never be as good as Aikman. The Cowboys can win with him if they build to his strengths, but he can't pull the cart alone.

Wentz had a good year?

How so? You can't compare Eli's seasons to Wentz's first few seasons. The league changed so much since those 11 years. Now rookie QBs can come in and shine like a ruby and he didn't even look good. He shined against the awful Bears, Browns and terrible Steelers defense.

Then, when he faced real defenses like Seattle, Baltimore, Minnesota, and even the NY Giants (especially the NY Giants) he looked like shit. I think he had a shitty game vs Cincinnati in there too.

Ok he had a few games vs a bunch of shitty teams but that is it. The pushing and boosting for Wentz is beyond hilarious.

Said the same thing last year, Dallas' great OL can keep an young or inexperienced QB out of situations where they might make a dumb mistake.

I feel like the main reason people think that Dax is a fraud is that he doesnt throw his receivers open and takes the plays that defenses give him.

Dak had a top team around him, so they carried a lot of the game for him. Wentz had to do it more or less himself.

Is the notion from the OP that Dak will struggle this year because he's a "running QB". I don't think Dak will struggle this year, and I don't think he's a running QB.

In comment 13586859 nccowboyfan said:

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The problem with running QBs I'd they can only run normally, not great pocket passers. That is something Dak understands, and has worked the entire off-season on being a better down field passer. He may have more INTs this year, as last year was probably a bit of a product of not pushing it down field much, but hopefully it opens up the offense. It's clearly a run first team, Dak must keep the offense on schedule, no 3rd longs and he will be fine. Still young.

I also agree that this is a fair assessment. There have been multiple reports coming from Dallas on how Dak has been working on becoming more of a threat passing downfield from within the pocket. I think he's been very good throwing the ball when scrambling.

I think that we will see more INT's like you said, but more deep attempts which could translate into more yards, TD's, etc.

I think he will look to take advantage of teams cheating against the run more. With teams who are strong enough in the front 7 I expect to see a similar offensive approach to last year with similar efficiencies, perhaps small improvements.

Hard to beat the QBR he put up last year, so if they stick with being an efficient offense I think he'll have similar numbers.

In comment 13586980 Hereditaryemperor said:

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Wentz had a good year? How so? You can't compare Eli's seasons to Wentz's first few seasons. The league changed so much since those 11 years. Now rookie QBs can come in and shine like a ruby and he didn't even look good. He shined against the awful Bears, Browns and terrible Steelers defense. Then, when he faced real defenses like Seattle, Baltimore, Minnesota, and even the NY Giants (especially the NY Giants) he looked like shit. I think he had a shitty game vs Cincinnati in there too. Ok he had a few games vs a bunch of shitty teams but that is it. The pushing and boosting for Wentz is beyond hilarious.

He was a rookie. It was a very good rookie year.

Your dupe game is still weak, Ernstern.

started and the team went 13-3 you'd be nominating him for the Hall of Fame right now. Why can't some people admit that there are good players on other teams, even on the rivals?

from Dak last year not to think he is going to continue to improve. If you subscribe to "you are only as good as your last game" then he was very good. But, imo I think he improved as the year went on which is key.

Those expecting Dak to fall off a cliff this season are going to be disappointed.

Dak and Wentz are going to be pains in the ass of Giants, for years to come.....

After Eli is gone, we are going to have to be very lucky finding the next Guy.....Webb? Wishful thinking.....

I think the Legend of Eli will continue to grow, as pretenders to the crown come and go....

When you think about what Accorsi did, all he he gave up to get Eli, and how it all worked out.....the stars were in the correct alignment.....it took a move like that to get the QB we needed.....

Will the stars have to line up again, or will someone just fall into our lap? Only time will tell.....

In comment 13586846 George from PA said:

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Can not pinpoint the issue but feel Prescott is a fraud. Way too inaccurate imo

I have seen this take a lot and don't know where it comes from. Wentz MIGHT be good one day. Maybe he's great one day but he was a wet nosed sloppy rookie last year. He showed something but not a whole lot. Meanwhile, Dak played excellent football through most of last season.

I know Dak had the OL and Zeke and all that but I still think it's weird to see so many people claim that Wentz will be the better QB. He's got miles and miles to go before he even approaches what Dak did last year. One guy has to elevate his game in a big way while the other has to regress considerably.

I'll believe in Dak's demise when I see it. I pray he isn't another Russell Wilson. The same Wilson that many predicted would suck now. Still waiting for that...

In comment 13587045 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13586980 Hereditaryemperor said: Quote: Wentz had a good year? How so? You can't compare Eli's seasons to Wentz's first few seasons. The league changed so much since those 11 years. Now rookie QBs can come in and shine like a ruby and he didn't even look good. He shined against the awful Bears, Browns and terrible Steelers defense. Then, when he faced real defenses like Seattle, Baltimore, Minnesota, and even the NY Giants (especially the NY Giants) he looked like shit. I think he had a shitty game vs Cincinnati in there too. Ok he had a few games vs a bunch of shitty teams but that is it. The pushing and boosting for Wentz is beyond hilarious. He was a rookie. It was a very good rookie year. Your dupe game is still weak, Ernstern.

Yet you have nothing to back up how it was a good rookie year...

I had stats to back up he didn't. He a few good games vs of weak defenses/bad teams. The Bears went 3-13, the Browns won A game last year.

-HeredityEmpire

In comment 13586884 mattlawson said:

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Like Prescott was inconsistent and was made to look amateur when faced good defenses with a good plan. Both could be good for a long time.

Dak had literally one bad game all of 2016 and it came against a nasty NYG team in their own house. He was nothing like Wentz and Wentz was nothing like Dak. There's no comparison. Dak made big boy plays all year long and contrary to myth made plays from the pocket.

He could regress. But don't bet on it. I don't think he's going to throw 26 and 4 but I wouldn't expect him Dak to lose his grip on things. He looks poised to be a legit QB for a long time. I'd make peace with that if I was like some of you.

In comment 13586995 GiantsFanPatsLand said:

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I feel like the main reason people think that Dax is a fraud is that he doesnt throw his receivers open and takes the plays that defenses give him.

This I agree with. We will see how bold Dak is over the long haul. He did in fact take what was given last year, but more often than not this was enough.

Wentz didn't suck
mattlawson : 8:21 am : link : reply
Like Prescott was inconsistent and was made to look amateur when faced good defenses with a good plan. Both could be good for a long time.

Dak was much better than most would have thought .
If we had drafted him he would have had to sit for a few years but he looks good early this year he could be a huge steal for the Boys won't have to pay him a ton right away .

In comment 13586995 GiantsFanPatsLand said:

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I feel like the main reason people think that Dax is a fraud is that he doesnt throw his receivers open and takes the plays that defenses give him.

This is by design. You should read this article by The Ringer about the Run-Pass option and how the Cowboys and many other teams are using it effectively.

There is nothing wrong with taking what the defense is giving you. A coach up in Boston is famous for using this strategy to an extreme, forcing defenses to give up their original game plan or beating them to death if they refuse.

Dallas has done a very good job of building a very effective offense that requires a quick thrower with great decision making skills and above average athleticism. Dak has all of those things. Defenses will have to find ways to force Dak into mistakes, and so far they have really struggled to do so.

And I won't hold his draft status against him. The DUI right before the draft certainly didn't help his cause.

He's a good QB. He showed that last year when everyone was dismissing his preseason performance as "just preseason." Underrate him at your own peril. I won't, and I hope the Giants won't, either.

Long term I give the edge to Wentz. Prescott was more of a game manager and had the benefit of that OL and running game. And that's not intended to take anything away from him. He did what was asked and the stage wasn't too big for him. It was similar to Roethlisburgers rookie season. He was handed the keys to a Ferrari and told "just don't roll the thing". He seems to have a good head on his shoulders and is by all accounts a hard worker. Can he make the jump from caretaker to focal point? We'll see, but there's nothing glaring that suggests he won't be able to.

As for Wentz, unfortunately I think this guy has all the makings of a franchise QB. He was asked to do a lot last year. Outside of Ertz had no one to throw to. And he couldn't lean on a running game either. He averaged 37 attempts a week and was regularly asked to go win games, not just manage them. He was also playing for a first year coach who was figuring things out on the fly as well. The results were mixed but, in truth, much better than you would have thought taking all those things into account. He checks all the boxes physically and has a great arm. He also seems to be mentally tough and a leader. In year two they have much better weapons at receiver and the running game should be better. I think Wentz's first year struggles will serve him much better than Prescott's first year successes.

I think Dak will have a nice career, but I think Wentz is going to be a pain in the ass for a long time.

The trouble that teams will have is keeping him inn 3rd and long while Zeke is on the team. It's also not clear how close this year's line is to last year's line.

but he's a pass first quarterback. He can go through his progressions. He's intelligent. He already has a Masters Degree.
I think he'll be able to handle whatever increased load they throw at him.
Definitely not a flash in the pan.

is that his favorite song is Drops of Jupiter by Train.

In comment 13587143 Dan in the Springs said:

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In comment 13586995 GiantsFanPatsLand said: Quote: I feel like the main reason people think that Dax is a fraud is that he doesnt throw his receivers open and takes the plays that defenses give him. This is by design. You should read this article by The Ringer about the Run-Pass option and how the Cowboys and many other teams are using it effectively. There is nothing wrong with taking what the defense is giving you. A coach up in Boston is famous for using this strategy to an extreme, forcing defenses to give up their original game plan or beating them to death if they refuse. Dallas has done a very good job of building a very effective offense that requires a quick thrower with great decision making skills and above average athleticism. Dak has all of those things. Defenses will have to find ways to force Dak into mistakes, and so far they have really struggled to do so.

Not saying that it is necessarily a bad thing but I think teams are adapting to this and making him beat them.

If the Giants can build a lead and force Prescott to beat them with his arm they win easily.

But as long time Giants fans we should be used to that by now. And as much as I hate to say nice things about the cowboys I think Dak is the real deal. What impressed me the most about his Rookie year is how calm cool collected and grounded he was as a starter for a very highly publicized team.

He never seemed to get nervous out there nor did he ever appear lost. I'm in the camp that believes the mental side of the athlete is the key to a great foundation if the body is a match for the sport and position. I think Dak will do well and have another very good year. That said, I don't think the cowboys will do as well as they did last year as they still are very weak on the D line and in the backfield.

The Eagles scare me more but I think we may be the best in our division. But but but..... we have a terrible schedule and unfortunately about 20% of the game results do depend on how the ball bounces and how the refs call the games.

Very interesting thread to read.

With the protection of their OL and their running game Dak is in a great situation. He was a game manager last year and this year Garrett will open the playbook. He has the tools and the advantage of a great supporting cast.

his receivers were absolute garbage. Let's see how he does with a decent WR corps; I'm concerned he actually might be pretty good. I think what will hold Philly back is that Pederson is an idiot.

I also expected Dak to regress this year, and I know it was only preseason, but he looked really in command this summer. I think he might be legit.

In comment 13587239 SterlingArcher said:

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If the Giants can build a lead and force Prescott to beat them with his arm they win easily.

Prescott plays nothing like Griffin or Kaepernick. Where are you getting these comparisons from?

In comment 13587002 UberAlias said:

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Is the notion from the OP that Dak will struggle this year because he's a "running QB". I don't think Dak will struggle this year, and I don't think he's a running QB.

Certainly no more than Aaron Rodgers, Marcus Mariotta and Blake Bortles are "running QB's", all had more rushing attempts than Dak last year. I hate to say it, but just because the guy is black doesn't make him a running QB.

he could be the real goods

In comment 13587291 Giantology said:

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In comment 13587239 SterlingArcher said: Quote: If the Giants can build a lead and force Prescott to beat them with his arm they win easily. Prescott plays nothing like Griffin or Kaepernick. Where are you getting these comparisons from?

They both necessarily don't win games for you and have to be carried by your team. They're all not exactly the long term answers at QB, like the way Rg3 and Colin were.

In comment 13587365 Hereditaryemperor said:

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In comment 13587291 Giantology said: Quote: In comment 13587239 SterlingArcher said: Quote: If the Giants can build a lead and force Prescott to beat them with his arm they win easily. Prescott plays nothing like Griffin or Kaepernick. Where are you getting these comparisons from? They both necessarily don't win games for you and have to be carried by your team. They're all not exactly the long term answers at QB, like the way Rg3 and Colin were.

Well friend, Prescott had 4 fourth quarter comeback drives and 5 game winning drives in his rookie season. That's more than either of them ever had in a season.

Yes, he has a talented OL and running game to rely on- with arguably a much less talented defense than either RG3 or Kaep had in their "prime"

He could very well flame out and not have the same success he had last year. That's how the NFL goes sometimes. But he's not a similar player in terms of style to RG3 or Kaep and has shown glimpses of being a proficient pocket passer, something those 2 you're comparing them to rarely did.

Let Prescott do it again before anyone concludes that he's for real.

In comment 13587389 Greg from LI said:

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Let Prescott do it again before anyone concludes that he's for real.

Yup...End of deal