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If Robinson can't go, is Collins the Nickel LB

SLIM_ : 9/7/2017 9:00 am
You may need more beef against the Cowboys offensive line unless you get to very large distances on 2nd and 3rd down but it seems like for any other team that it would make sense for Collins to move up to linebacker and they insert Adams at strong safety.

That's a good question...  
BC Eagles94 : 9/7/2017 9:22 am : link
Not having Keenan Robinson has flown under the radar, particularly with all the reports of Beckham being the only possible starter not playing for Cowboys. With the amount of snaps Robinson would play in nickle and dime packages, he is a starter as well. He was our best coverage LB'er last year by far and he is really going to be missed. Hope he comes back soon, but being out for a month for a concussion is certainly not a good sign.
Giants Haven't Done Much with Three Safeties Since 2011  
OntheRoad : 9/7/2017 9:23 am : link
If they need to replace Robinson with a better run defender, it might be Kennard-Goodson-Casillas. That's not a bad lineup.
note that DRC did take some preseason snaps at S  
giants#1 : 9/7/2017 9:28 am : link
wouldn't surprise me if we see him lined up as a safety with Collins playing down in the box for certain packages.
Interesting thought  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2017 9:28 am : link
But I doubt it. IMO, that just spreads the talent gap over two positions - Collins is almost definitely not as good a LB as he is a SS, so that's a diminished use of his skills, and Adams doesn't really possess the typical SS skill set, so that's a bit of a diminished use as well.

I would think we'd probably see JT Thomas alongside Casillas in standard nickel situations. We might see the the personnel you describe but it would be in a creative dime, not a makeshift nickel.
I don t think  
joeinpa : 9/7/2017 9:29 am : link
They do that
Has he ever practiced at linebacker?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/7/2017 9:30 am : link
.
I doubt it  
Beer Man : 9/7/2017 9:35 am : link
I don't remember seeing Collins at the Nickel LB at all this preseason. They could go with a third Safety if the other LBs show they can't cover the TEs or RBs, but it is not something we have seen in a long time.
I doubt it  
Cenotaph : 9/7/2017 9:38 am : link
Maybe they've been grooming Goodson to slot in beside Casillas in nickel? Or Kennard if they want an addt'l pass rusher? Neither is really a direct replacement for Robinson (cover LB), but I think they keep Collins at SS. He's seems at his best reacting from deep and flying up to the play, can close really fast and shut down a lot from SS.
That's a terrible idea  
BillT : 9/7/2017 9:41 am : link
You want to take one of the best (if not the best) SS in the league and you want to play him out of position. And not only do you want to play him out of position but given that the nickel defense is on the field 60%+ of the time you want you want to play him out of position a majority of the game. Good grief!
RE: Interesting thought  
Matt in SGS : 9/7/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13586963 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
But I doubt it. IMO, that just spreads the talent gap over two positions - Collins is almost definitely not as good a LB as he is a SS, so that's a diminished use of his skills, and Adams doesn't really possess the typical SS skill set, so that's a bit of a diminished use as well.

I would think we'd probably see JT Thomas alongside Casillas in standard nickel situations. We might see the the personnel you describe but it would be in a creative dime, not a makeshift nickel.


My guess is this is what would happen. Why have JT Thomas on the roster if he's not here for this role? I'd leave Collins where he is, which is the best safety in the NFL.
Great question...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/7/2017 10:06 am : link
I thought this quote in McAdoo's presser yesterday was interesting.
Quote:
Q: How has B.J. Goodson looked as an every down linebacker, particularly in coverage?

A: Good. I mean he moves around like a football player. I talked to him today and I told him that he looks like he is born for the position, but most importantly, he has earned it. First, second and third down, heís out there. He takes ownership of the defense and Iím excited to watch him play on Sunday.


I'm guessing that in nickel defense it will be Casillas and Goodson, since it seems McAdoo is planning to play BJ all three downs.
If Apple was healthy  
Carl in CT : 9/7/2017 10:08 am : link
And you could put someone else in slot and move DRC to safety might not be a bad move.
Only on  
Carl in CT : 9/7/2017 10:09 am : link
Passing downs long yardage.
Agree with Dan  
JonC : 9/7/2017 10:15 am : link
it might not be the most effective deployment in the end, but figures to be the first one they run with.
JT Thomas is not a coverage linebacker  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/7/2017 11:12 am : link
He'd look bad running down field trying to play pass defense.

He's a line up and go downhill linebacker.

He has value because he can play outside spots, but specifically exposing him to nickel matchups is not the best idea.
I would have guessed Thomas, until McAdoo indicated Goodson.  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/7/2017 11:33 am : link
Still hoping for Robinson. If healthy, he's probably the best option for both nickel and dime, and I don't think anyone else is close.

Thomas is hard to assess because of the knee, possible rustiness, and a limited body of work overall. FWIW (not much) PFF liked his coverage better than other aspects of his game in 2015.

Collins wouldn't even have occurred to me.

I think it's safe to say that none of the options will be worse than Uani' Unga.

RE: RE: Interesting thought  
allstarjim : 9/7/2017 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13587006 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 13586963 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


But I doubt it. IMO, that just spreads the talent gap over two positions - Collins is almost definitely not as good a LB as he is a SS, so that's a diminished use of his skills, and Adams doesn't really possess the typical SS skill set, so that's a bit of a diminished use as well.

I would think we'd probably see JT Thomas alongside Casillas in standard nickel situations. We might see the the personnel you describe but it would be in a creative dime, not a makeshift nickel.



My guess is this is what would happen. Why have JT Thomas on the roster if he's not here for this role? I'd leave Collins where he is, which is the best safety in the NFL.


Yup. I could see Goodson and Casillas on the field in the nickel sub. And please spare me the gnashing of teeth. Neither are as bad in coverage as some make them out to be.

But I agree with Matt.
RE: Great question...  
Carson53 : 9/7/2017 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13587015 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
I thought this quote in McAdoo's presser yesterday was interesting.

Quote:


Q: How has B.J. Goodson looked as an every down linebacker, particularly in coverage?

A: Good. I mean he moves around like a football player. I talked to him today and I told him that he looks like he is born for the position, but most importantly, he has earned it. First, second and third down, heís out there. He takes ownership of the defense and Iím excited to watch him play on Sunday.



I'm guessing that in nickel defense it will be Casillas and Goodson, since it seems McAdoo is planning to play BJ all three downs.
.

I don't think he has that much choice without Robinson available. I doubt Robinson will be available by Sunday.
At some point, they have to make a decision on him.
Goodson's also looked good rushing the QB  
giants#1 : 9/7/2017 12:15 pm : link
so having him on the field gives them more options for bringing the heat.
JT Thomas  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/7/2017 12:16 pm : link
Is the guy that was considere a better cover LB. I would think he would come
Collins is so good in his role  
81_Great_Dane : 9/7/2017 12:26 pm : link
that it's a win for the offense if the Giants use him in another role. So I don't think he'll be a "linebacker" exactly.

I do expect that we'll see more 3-safety looks from the Giants this season. They seem to have the guys to do it in LC, Adams, Thompson and DRC. I think that the defense, like the offense, is going to look to be be more diverse and give the other side more to think about.
RE: Goodson's also looked good rushing the QB  
Dan in the Springs : 9/7/2017 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13587209 giants#1 said:
Quote:
so having him on the field gives them more options for bringing the heat.


This is an excellent point - hope to see some pressure from him in those situations. I think with our ends Dak's most vulnerability to A-gap blitzes from someone who can get home.
RE: RE: Goodson's also looked good rushing the QB  
giants#1 : 9/7/2017 1:36 pm : link
In comment 13587317 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13587209 giants#1 said:


Quote:


so having him on the field gives them more options for bringing the heat.



This is an excellent point - hope to see some pressure from him in those situations. I think with our ends Dak's most vulnerability to A-gap blitzes from someone who can get home.


Except with Martin/Frederick, their OL is least vulnerable to A-gap blitzes. But if Snacks/Bromley/Goodson/etc can push the pocket a little, JPP and Vernon could get home and make Dak very uncomfortable.
RE: RE: RE: Goodson's also looked good rushing the QB  
Dan in the Springs : 9/7/2017 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13587320 giants#1 said:
Quote:

Except with Martin/Frederick, their OL is least vulnerable to A-gap blitzes. But if Snacks/Bromley/Goodson/etc can push the pocket a little, JPP and Vernon could get home and make Dak very uncomfortable.


Yes they do - and Zeke has proven to be a very effective blocker. Hoping to see how he handles Goodson because I think BJ can win some there.
I don't understand  
Jay in Toronto : 9/7/2017 1:55 pm : link
DRC at safety when they are watching his reps at CB cause he gets tired.
They want their best DBs on the field  
JonC : 9/7/2017 2:39 pm : link
and FS tends to be a lesser load of action in terms of running with receivers, changing directions, tackling, etc.
They're likely to scheme  
Rflairr : 9/7/2017 4:27 pm : link
with a way to get Adams in the game. Especially with the way Witten does the Giants.
RE: RE: Great question...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/7/2017 6:24 pm : link
In comment 13587206 Carson53 said:
Quote:

I don't think he has that much choice without Robinson available. I doubt Robinson will be available by Sunday.
At some point, they have to make a decision on him.


This is a really good point, and should be kept in mind since they brought in three linebackers for tryouts this week. Maybe Goodson is going to get three downs but they wish they had someone stronger in coverage and are still looking. Spags basically said as much in his presser today when asked about linebacker depth.

Quote:
Q: Do you feel better about your depth at linebacker?

A: Itís starting to unfold. As a coach, you always want more depth. Youíre always looking for good football players, but we have guys in here that hopefully know what theyíre doing and the one challenge in this league with backup guys Ė talk about depth Ė is they donít get a lot of reps now. Should something happen on Sunday, they need to be ready to go.


Think you might be right Carson53.
RE: They're likely to scheme  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2017 6:42 pm : link
In comment 13587576 Rflairr said:
Quote:
with a way to get Adams in the game. Especially with the way Witten does the Giants.


Adams getting in the game other than on Specials is trouble with a capital T...
Remind me whether Robinson has even gotten on the field since July?  
Jimmy Googs : 9/7/2017 6:44 pm : link
.
4-1-5  
idiotsavant : 9/7/2017 7:09 pm : link
which plays like a 5-0-6

Apple.....JPP/Bromley/Harrison\..Wynn.....Jenkins.......DRC
............................Vernon.........


.......Collins.......





...................................Thompson

...................Adams
inside out 5, contain outside runs and the QB, rush all interior gaps  
idiotsavant : 9/7/2017 7:23 pm : link
Damon Harrison ..[JPP..Vernon...Wynn]....Dalvin Tomlinson

3 safeties and 3 corners
RE: RE: They're likely to scheme  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/7/2017 11:29 pm : link
In comment 13587666 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13587576 Rflairr said:


Quote:


with a way to get Adams in the game. Especially with the way Witten does the Giants.



Adams getting in the game other than on Specials is trouble with a capital T...

Saying it repeatedly doesn't make you correct. Given the way you seem to think everything and everyone related to this team is so mediocre, why not choose one of the other 31 teams? I mean, you're wrong all the time as a Giants fan, why not double down and see if you can be completely wrong about another team too?
I am not wrong about you  
Jimmy Googs : 9/8/2017 7:49 am : link
Gatorade...
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