but I have to say I kind of agree. Everyone likes to talk about eli as a hall of fame guy. At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him. All the other greats of the modern era have had seasons like that. Most have had seasons like that late in their careers.
This team is a contender for a post season birth with mediocre eli. If he plays great this team could be really special.
this has to keep getting pointed out, but he has already done this twice:
Quote:
At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him
At some point?? At some point?? How about 2007 and 2011?
2007 he went into the season trying to avoid being cut. @011 he suggested he was elite and was laughed at. No one expected a lot of him in either of those season and no one expected much of the team as well. We also finished 10-6 5th seed and 9-7 4th seed in those seasons respectively.
And you act like it isn't common place around here for everyone to freak out if expectations get to high.
Well expectations are high, the roster is stacked and this is a team that should win 12-14 games. We are that good. If the defense plays great and the offense gets bogged down it is going to be on eli to elevate the offense. If he was ever going to have a legitimately MVP caliber season, this is it.
This post might make sense heading into the 2011 season.
this has to keep getting pointed out, but he has already done this twice:
Quote:
At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him
At some point?? At some point?? How about 2007 and 2011?
2007 he went into the season trying to avoid being cut. @011 he suggested he was elite and was laughed at. No one expected a lot of him in either of those season and no one expected much of the team as well. We also finished 10-6 5th seed and 9-7 4th seed in those seasons respectively.
And you act like it isn't common place around here for everyone to freak out if expectations get to high.
Well expectations are high, the roster is stacked and this is a team that should win 12-14 games. We are that good. If the defense plays great and the offense gets bogged down it is going to be on eli to elevate the offense. If he was ever going to have a legitimately MVP caliber season, this is it.
He may have been laughed at, but he went out there and kept a team with the 27th ranked defense, arguable worst run game in the NFL, and OL that gave up the most pressures afloat until the defense finally got it together very late. He took all the pressure (and there was a ton on him that year, for various reasons) and balled out... and he still can't get credit for it.
As critical as I can be of Eli, to a point where I get called a hater myself, I still find it sort of sad that the likes of you and brunswick were allowed to get any enjoyment of that season, given how you dismiss it and shift goalposts about what he's done or not done.
put on him, especially once he got injured and had to play through it. Succeed or your career is going be done or at least supremely set back, all the money you'll likely lose and how you'll be even more the joke of your family.
In the end, he rallied and was an integral cog of a SB winner, half the greatest play of all time... but somehow that's less important to give credit to than living up to pre-season media polls.
this team through the desert of mediocrity. Eli will never be any good. Look at the Cowboys, they have had 12 QBs in the tenure of Eli. Eli has thrown for over 6200 yards against the Cowboys, the most ever by a Dallas opponent. The Great Simms only tossed 4800+ yards. Hopefully, Webb is up to the task.
, but he's not a mobile QB and when he needs to get it deep, the Oline has to do its job. Eli is not going to create much offense on his own. I would also say, all receivers need to also hold onto the ball and catch what hits them in the hands. I've seen far too many drops in critical situations from this team and that's not on Eli. Eli can still make some pretty throws, but if the receiver isn't where he needs to be or just drops it, then how is that on Eli. The offense as a whole must function together and EVERYONE has to do their job, not just Eli.
lets dispel the myth that Eli has no time to throw. He actually had the second most time (measured in seconds) to throw in the entire league last year. Sure, there were plays where guys were in his face right away but that was not the norm. We just tend to remember those well.
The issue with the OL is the run game creating 3rd and long situations. You could also blame McAdoo for play calling and formation which also would negatively impact Eli's performance.
All that being said, he has the weapons this year and possibly the best group of eligible WRs that he has had in a long time.
So, although I disagree that Eli needs to take us to the championship or he is not a top QB. What can't happen is for Eli to be a big reason why we don't go deep into the playoffs. I am sure he will play well..
this has to keep getting pointed out, but he has already done this twice:
Quote:
At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him
At some point?? At some point?? How about 2007 and 2011?
Not that I agree with the OP, but the Giants would not have won the title with any of the other 31 teams' defenses during the playoff run in either 2007 or 2011 (emphasis on the 4 playoff games, as I know the D was more middle of the pack in the regular season).
Could they have won with any of the other 31 starting QBs? Probably.
but I have to say I kind of agree. Everyone likes to talk about eli as a hall of fame guy. At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him. All the other greats of the modern era have had seasons like that. Most have had seasons like that late in their careers.
This team is a contender for a post season birth with mediocre eli. If he plays great this team could be really special.
WTF do you call two SB wins, one against arguably the greatest team ever and get there by winning 8 playoff games all on the road?
Would you not call that fucking great?
Worst supporting cast over the course of his career
but I have to say I kind of agree. Everyone likes to talk about eli as a hall of fame guy. At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him. All the other greats of the modern era have had seasons like that. Most have had seasons like that late in their careers.
This team is a contender for a post season birth with mediocre eli. If he plays great this team could be really special.
WTF do you call two SB wins, one against arguably the greatest team ever and get there by winning 8 playoff games all on the road?
lets dispel the myth that Eli has no time to throw. He actually had the second most time (measured in seconds) to throw in the entire league last year. Sure, there were plays where guys were in his face right away but that was not the norm. We just tend to remember those well.
The issue with the OL is the run game creating 3rd and long situations. You could also blame McAdoo for play calling and formation which also would negatively impact Eli's performance.
All that being said, he has the weapons this year and possibly the best group of eligible WRs that he has had in a long time.
So, although I disagree that Eli needs to take us to the championship or he is not a top QB. What can't happen is for Eli to be a big reason why we don't go deep into the playoffs. I am sure he will play well..
I don't know where you're getting that number, but it's wrong.
Eli had the fourth shortest time to throw before pressure, as measured by both PFF and FO/Fahey.
HOF QB, 2 time SB MVP, will finish top 5 in Yds and TDs, iron man with 200 games in a row, and the author of arguably the greatest run the NY Giants ever had.
Rodgers have? They are elite yet they only have one ring each. Do they get the blame for their other seasons of no rings or even super bowl appearances?
I don't know where you're getting that number, but it's wrong.
Eli had the fourth shortest time to throw before pressure, as measured by both PFF and FO/Fahey.
To be fair, there are a lot of different sources and each one says/measures it a little differently. Here are a couple of links that you can copy/paste. I do not think they necessarily support your position or mine either.
But to be a great NFL quarterback he's going to have to have another big season ending in the national spotlight. Lots of the lowly talking heads that rank players don't even understand two of Eli's greatest strengths: the 200 straight starts and the ability to raise his game when under the greatest pressure.
Just by staying in the lineup for the game and for the season saves the Giants losses over the years if they had to rely on his backup.
A lot of the talking heads just don't like him. He's not a good athlete. When throwing under pressure he too often just throws the ball up for grabs. They still remember and don't like it that he managed to refuse to play for the team he was drafted by. They think he was really lucky, twice, in two of the NFL's greatest catches and throws. Sometimes lucky, but mostly not.
I think Giant fans understand that these scoring drives were met for one big reason that game pressure doesn't bother Eli. Pressure kills the careers of others such as A-Rod and I would argue Romo. When Eli has to lead a scoring drive to win the game, he does it.
When Romo had to lead the scoring drive, well he would have done it except this receiver dropped an easy catch that he would have made 99 percent of the time. Every team drops passes in every game.
Does Eli get flustered under pressure? Sometimes, but he was never more battered around than in the 2011 NFC Title Game against the 49ers. Six sacks and lots of other contact. But late in the 3rd quarter, with the help of a short field, when the Giants had a 1st and ten on the Niner 12 yard line, a penalty (Holding, what a surprise) set him back to 1st and ten on the 22 yard line. On 3rd and 15 on the 15, with TD or FG at stake, Eli fired a bullet to Manningham in the end zone.
As most of us expected.
Every QB get flustered when the OL gives up pressure
I don't know where you're getting that number, but it's wrong.
Eli had the fourth shortest time to throw before pressure, as measured by both PFF and FO/Fahey.
To be fair, there are a lot of different sources and each one says/measures it a little differently. Here are a couple of links that you can copy/paste. I do not think they necessarily support your position or mine either.
It also suggests that the time to throw stat may also be skewed by a QBs mobility.
You're linking me to a PFF breakdown from 2014, based on seasons before that, that wouldn't even support your claim from then and a redditor's post where the poster is coming up with their own stats based off separate PFF data that not only doesn't support your claim, but is also highly flawed, as pointed out in the comments. Why not just post your source for 2016? Because it doesn't exist?
What I said was PFF just posted today, as well multiple times previously by them freely, and I buy the FO almanac, as well as Fahey's yearly catalouge, and they match PFF's figures. Eli got the ball out quickly last year (too much so in some cases) and when the pressure came, it came entirely in spite of that, hot. This isn't "different sources, different things", this was you talking out of your ass and being wrong and not just owning it.
RE: Eli will always be a great Giant. Two Super Bowls give him that.
But to be a great NFL quarterback he's going to have to have another big season ending in the national spotlight.
Don't entirely agree; his career numbers will speak for themselves.
Quote:
Lots of the lowly talking heads that rank players don't even understand two of Eli's greatest strengths: the 200 straight starts and the ability to raise his game when under the greatest pressure. Just by staying in the lineup for the game and for the season saves the Giants losses over the years if they had to rely on his backup.
Agree. The consecutive starts really are under-appreciated.
Quote:
A lot of the talking heads just don't like him. He's not a good athlete.
This is a myth. He's not a good runner, he's not fast, but he's a superb athlete. He's quite mobile in the pocket, excellent at sliding to find a passing lane. He's just not a good scrambler. He makes throws few NFL QBs can make,
very consistently. He takes a lot of risks on the field. Sometimes he makes bonehead plays. So did Terry Bradshaw. So did Brett Favre. So does pretty much everybody. You play a lot, everybody sees your mistakes.
Quote:
They still remember and don't like it that he managed to refuse to play for the team he was drafted by.
Yet Elway did the same thing and isn't haunted by it. But Elway was fast and a runner and "athletic" -- and had a lot of regular seasons success, so he was considered "great" before he won a ring.
QBs get too much credit and blame for regular season win totals, IMO. Some of those Giants teams Eli was on were flat-out lousy, and he was often the best player on the field.
This season will say a lot about Eli. If he's really in decline, it'll show. But if he has a big year that will change the perception of a lot of his prior career. It would prove that given a good supporting cast, he can thrive. And it would suggest that the lousy teams he was on have really hurt his career numbers, and that he kept some bad teams afloat.
I suspect he'll give us a good but not spectacular year, as he'll still be under pressure a lot, and this debate will continue into 2018.
This is what you come up with after how many years in the league . I mean seriously two Super Bowl Wins .
Could have had a third if Plax doesn't shoot himself he
probably will own every major Giants passing record in history . The past 4-5 yards he has had a sub par O-line
has had the crap beat out of him think the Forty Niner game
where most QB's would have tapped out near perfect Image role model thats barley sniffed a cork bottle .
Family man that never complains always takes the blame .
Not to metion playing in the shadow of his HOF brother and I am sure I am missing something oh what is it career number 200 without missing a game one of the all time Iron men of football ....
But yeah not quite elite enough for you ..
I am gonna go outside and see if I can find a puppy or a furry kitten to kick ...
Delete this post for your own good !
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think that we need to set the record straight on the OL...
again. Is this the third season that O-Line has been the highest priority? Even if the Giants haven't been good at using high draft picks to get the best prospects, they don't need to add All Pros to the line to get one that's adequate.
David Diehl was our starting OT in both Super Bowl games. Dave a great guy who played with a lot of heart, but he was selected to the Pro Bowl only once as a replacement. Guys of average athleticism can make a line that's good enough.
Diehl and O'Hara and Seubert played hard and learned to play together as a unit, where one could help another out on a play. The Giants could have found players over 30 years old with enough left to get the job done on the waiver wire.
You don't need a great line as long as you don't have any revolving turnstiles in there.
This team is a contender for a post season birth with mediocre eli. If he plays great this team could be really special.
brunswick did I get that right?
At some point?? At some point?? How about 2007 and 2011?
If Eli can't, he's a loser....
Quote:
At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him
At some point?? At some point?? How about 2007 and 2011?
2007 he went into the season trying to avoid being cut. @011 he suggested he was elite and was laughed at. No one expected a lot of him in either of those season and no one expected much of the team as well. We also finished 10-6 5th seed and 9-7 4th seed in those seasons respectively.
And you act like it isn't common place around here for everyone to freak out if expectations get to high.
Well expectations are high, the roster is stacked and this is a team that should win 12-14 games. We are that good. If the defense plays great and the offense gets bogged down it is going to be on eli to elevate the offense. If he was ever going to have a legitimately MVP caliber season, this is it.
Quote:
this has to keep getting pointed out, but he has already done this twice:
Quote:
At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him
At some point?? At some point?? How about 2007 and 2011?
2007 he went into the season trying to avoid being cut. @011 he suggested he was elite and was laughed at. No one expected a lot of him in either of those season and no one expected much of the team as well. We also finished 10-6 5th seed and 9-7 4th seed in those seasons respectively.
And you act like it isn't common place around here for everyone to freak out if expectations get to high.
Well expectations are high, the roster is stacked and this is a team that should win 12-14 games. We are that good. If the defense plays great and the offense gets bogged down it is going to be on eli to elevate the offense. If he was ever going to have a legitimately MVP caliber season, this is it.
He may have been laughed at, but he went out there and kept a team with the 27th ranked defense, arguable worst run game in the NFL, and OL that gave up the most pressures afloat until the defense finally got it together very late. He took all the pressure (and there was a ton on him that year, for various reasons) and balled out... and he still can't get credit for it.
As critical as I can be of Eli, to a point where I get called a hater myself, I still find it sort of sad that the likes of you and brunswick were allowed to get any enjoyment of that season, given how you dismiss it and shift goalposts about what he's done or not done.
Did I really read that?
BA HA HA HA!!
In the end, he rallied and was an integral cog of a SB winner, half the greatest play of all time... but somehow that's less important to give credit to than living up to pre-season media polls.
But if he's running for his life on practically every other play, then it's one the OLine...again.
The issue with the OL is the run game creating 3rd and long situations. You could also blame McAdoo for play calling and formation which also would negatively impact Eli's performance.
All that being said, he has the weapons this year and possibly the best group of eligible WRs that he has had in a long time.
So, although I disagree that Eli needs to take us to the championship or he is not a top QB. What can't happen is for Eli to be a big reason why we don't go deep into the playoffs. I am sure he will play well..
Quote:
At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him
At some point?? At some point?? How about 2007 and 2011?
Not that I agree with the OP, but the Giants would not have won the title with any of the other 31 teams' defenses during the playoff run in either 2007 or 2011 (emphasis on the 4 playoff games, as I know the D was more middle of the pack in the regular season).
Could they have won with any of the other 31 starting QBs? Probably.
This team is a contender for a post season birth with mediocre eli. If he plays great this team could be really special.
WTF do you call two SB wins, one against arguably the greatest team ever and get there by winning 8 playoff games all on the road?
Would you not call that fucking great?
And still a 2 time SB champ...
brunswick and the other genius above must not actually watch the games...
Quote:
but I have to say I kind of agree. Everyone likes to talk about eli as a hall of fame guy. At some point he just needs to be great when that is exactly what is expected of him. All the other greats of the modern era have had seasons like that. Most have had seasons like that late in their careers.
This team is a contender for a post season birth with mediocre eli. If he plays great this team could be really special.
WTF do you call two SB wins, one against arguably the greatest team ever and get there by winning 8 playoff games all on the road?
Would you not call that fucking great?
Montana, Well said sir!!!
Jesus.
The issue with the OL is the run game creating 3rd and long situations. You could also blame McAdoo for play calling and formation which also would negatively impact Eli's performance.
All that being said, he has the weapons this year and possibly the best group of eligible WRs that he has had in a long time.
So, although I disagree that Eli needs to take us to the championship or he is not a top QB. What can't happen is for Eli to be a big reason why we don't go deep into the playoffs. I am sure he will play well..
I don't know where you're getting that number, but it's wrong.
Eli had the fourth shortest time to throw before pressure, as measured by both PFF and FO/Fahey.
It's not true, as I posted above.
I'm not even sure where someone could find a number that so ridiculously off, barring completely misreading.
Did I really read that?
BA HA HA HA!!
I wanted to make sure I read that correctly. Are you on crack????
But yeah sure, he sucks.
I don't know where you're getting that number, but it's wrong.
Eli had the fourth shortest time to throw before pressure, as measured by both PFF and FO/Fahey.
To be fair, there are a lot of different sources and each one says/measures it a little differently. Here are a couple of links that you can copy/paste. I do not think they necessarily support your position or mine either.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/62v6jk/quarterbacks_time_to_throw_in_relation_to/
It also suggests that the time to throw stat may also be skewed by a QBs mobility.
But to be a great NFL quarterback he's going to have to have another big season ending in the national spotlight. Lots of the lowly talking heads that rank players don't even understand two of Eli's greatest strengths: the 200 straight starts and the ability to raise his game when under the greatest pressure.
Just by staying in the lineup for the game and for the season saves the Giants losses over the years if they had to rely on his backup.
A lot of the talking heads just don't like him. He's not a good athlete. When throwing under pressure he too often just throws the ball up for grabs. They still remember and don't like it that he managed to refuse to play for the team he was drafted by. They think he was really lucky, twice, in two of the NFL's greatest catches and throws. Sometimes lucky, but mostly not.
I think Giant fans understand that these scoring drives were met for one big reason that game pressure doesn't bother Eli. Pressure kills the careers of others such as A-Rod and I would argue Romo. When Eli has to lead a scoring drive to win the game, he does it.
When Romo had to lead the scoring drive, well he would have done it except this receiver dropped an easy catch that he would have made 99 percent of the time. Every team drops passes in every game.
Does Eli get flustered under pressure? Sometimes, but he was never more battered around than in the 2011 NFC Title Game against the 49ers. Six sacks and lots of other contact. But late in the 3rd quarter, with the help of a short field, when the Giants had a 1st and ten on the Niner 12 yard line, a penalty (Holding, what a surprise) set him back to 1st and ten on the 22 yard line. On 3rd and 15 on the 15, with TD or FG at stake, Eli fired a bullet to Manningham in the end zone.
As most of us expected.
Quote:
I don't know where you're getting that number, but it's wrong.
Eli had the fourth shortest time to throw before pressure, as measured by both PFF and FO/Fahey.
To be fair, there are a lot of different sources and each one says/measures it a little differently. Here are a couple of links that you can copy/paste. I do not think they necessarily support your position or mine either.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/62v6jk/quarterbacks_time_to_throw_in_relation_to/
It also suggests that the time to throw stat may also be skewed by a QBs mobility.
You're linking me to a PFF breakdown from 2014, based on seasons before that, that wouldn't even support your claim from then and a redditor's post where the poster is coming up with their own stats based off separate PFF data that not only doesn't support your claim, but is also highly flawed, as pointed out in the comments. Why not just post your source for 2016? Because it doesn't exist?
What I said was PFF just posted today, as well multiple times previously by them freely, and I buy the FO almanac, as well as Fahey's yearly catalouge, and they match PFF's figures. Eli got the ball out quickly last year (too much so in some cases) and when the pressure came, it came entirely in spite of that, hot. This isn't "different sources, different things", this was you talking out of your ass and being wrong and not just owning it.
very consistently. He takes a lot of risks on the field. Sometimes he makes bonehead plays. So did Terry Bradshaw. So did Brett Favre. So does pretty much everybody. You play a lot, everybody sees your mistakes.
QBs get too much credit and blame for regular season win totals, IMO. Some of those Giants teams Eli was on were flat-out lousy, and he was often the best player on the field.
This season will say a lot about Eli. If he's really in decline, it'll show. But if he has a big year that will change the perception of a lot of his prior career. It would prove that given a good supporting cast, he can thrive. And it would suggest that the lousy teams he was on have really hurt his career numbers, and that he kept some bad teams afloat.
I suspect he'll give us a good but not spectacular year, as he'll still be under pressure a lot, and this debate will continue into 2018.
Could have had a third if Plax doesn't shoot himself he
probably will own every major Giants passing record in history . The past 4-5 yards he has had a sub par O-line
has had the crap beat out of him think the Forty Niner game
where most QB's would have tapped out near perfect Image role model thats barley sniffed a cork bottle .
Family man that never complains always takes the blame .
Not to metion playing in the shadow of his HOF brother and I am sure I am missing something oh what is it career number 200 without missing a game one of the all time Iron men of football ....
But yeah not quite elite enough for you ..
I am gonna go outside and see if I can find a puppy or a furry kitten to kick ...
Delete this post for your own good !
Simple...because I saw it about two months ago and do not remember where exactly. The internet is a big place.
Quote:
Why not just post your source for 2016? Because it doesn't exist?
Simple...because I saw it about two months ago and do not remember where exactly. The internet is a big place.
It just came back to me. Heard it from Pat Kirwin on Sirius NFL two months ago
David Diehl was our starting OT in both Super Bowl games. Dave a great guy who played with a lot of heart, but he was selected to the Pro Bowl only once as a replacement. Guys of average athleticism can make a line that's good enough.
Diehl and O'Hara and Seubert played hard and learned to play together as a unit, where one could help another out on a play. The Giants could have found players over 30 years old with enough left to get the job done on the waiver wire.
You don't need a great line as long as you don't have any revolving turnstiles in there.