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The biggest mistake the Giants Org did

prdave73 : 9/10/2017 11:30 pm
was hire Mcadoo as the Giants HC. I've never been a fan of him since the Giants hired him as OC, and this performance tonight shows the reason why.. So many got on Britt in VA case and what do those think now?

This Offense was a shit show tonight, period. It has not improved since he got hired and it looks like its getting worse. The Giants offensive coaching staff is a complete joke and it showed. This offense is just so predictable year after year? Mcadoo is over-matched and completely lost, just flat out embarrassing. Against a Dallas defense that is weak too?! I will give some credit to the Cowboys DC, with pretty much a whole new defense he made it happen! See what people are not realizing is how does Rod Marinelli make this defense play so well with a bunch of new players in only 1 offseason????! But Mcadoo has been with the Giants for years and the offense still hasn't improved??? WHy? It's called having real coaches that know what they are doing, there are bad coaches and good coaches that make the difference. This is a good example of that. It's just sad.. smh. The only positive thing is the defense and it's to be expected considering how much Reese spent on them. Reese is to blame as well, he's a big part of this mess. smh..
I'm with in that McAdoo was hired to be an offensive coach and  
Del Shofner : 9/10/2017 11:32 pm : link
he seems to be WAY short of the job qualifications.

Hope he proves me wrong.
Amen  
GiantBlue : 9/10/2017 11:32 pm : link
But the players have to look in the mirror too. The don't execute. It's like they don't play or practice together.
I remember one pass downfield, maybe 2  
robbieballs2003 : 9/10/2017 11:34 pm : link
with Marshall on a vertical and Lewis on a corner. I get our OL sucks but running a vertical route takes less time than these crossing routes that never materialize because teams just sit in their zones. If we dont stretch the field it will be the same shit over and over.
The next few weeks will be telling.  
j_rud : 9/10/2017 11:35 pm : link
If he hands over the play calling reins he may be alright. I like how he runs the team and injuries are way, way down. But he's gotta give up the play calling.
I actually like him as the head coach, I like the team identity  
Giants_West : 9/10/2017 11:35 pm : link
under him. But as it relates to his continued involvement in the offense, hes fucking failing miserably. The offense has taken a huge step back since he moved to head coach. What gets me is better offensive minds them him have had play calling duties ripped because of not being able to handle both, and it is clear he can't. I think we need a real play caller on the sideline before this team moves forward its next step and I am not sure there is one available at the moment.
Tom Coughlin was a heckuva coach  
nybeast : 9/10/2017 11:36 pm : link
Never had problem with him. Offense was never this pathetic under Coughlin. He wouldn't tolerate this! He would light a fire under Eli's ass for these performances. Someone needs to light up McAdoo's ass!
And I forgot to say that GB runs plenty of shit downfield  
robbieballs2003 : 9/10/2017 11:36 pm : link
So, where is that simple concept? We have guys that can get downfield besides Beckham like King (not active tonight), Lewis, and Engram.
The guy was hired to be head coach  
jcn56 : 9/10/2017 11:37 pm : link
He took over and the team turned around immediately. Injuries way down. Close games turned from losses into victories.

Where he's been disappointing is on offense - where he's wearing two hats and should certainly give up one. He shouldn't be responsible for offensive playcalling any more.
I think it take three years to adequately assess a new HC  
Reb8thVA : 9/10/2017 11:37 pm : link
Last year the team goes 11-5 and everybody thinks McAdoo is the second coming. Parcels goes 3-12-1 in his first year. My point is judging a coach based on one year is deceiving. I think McAdoo still has much to prove.
I think this is BS  
BillT : 9/10/2017 11:37 pm : link
McAdoo isn't the problem and he proved he can get this team ready to play with the last Redskin win last year.
I agree the Oline is bad,  
prdave73 : 9/10/2017 11:38 pm : link
but as a coach you should be able to evaluate this and make some changes. Also if you know that your Oline is this bad, at least change your play calling schemes to make up for it. If you saw the game towards the end they finally started to throw short quick passes and where a bit more effective.
RE: I think it take three years to adequately assess a new HC  
jcn56 : 9/10/2017 11:38 pm : link
In comment 13592951 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
Last year the team goes 11-5 and everybody thinks McAdoo is the second coming. Parcels goes 3-12-1 in his first year. My point is judging a coach based on one year is deceiving. I think McAdoo still has much to prove.


And yet you'd likely be the first one to agree with Britt that TC should have stayed and McAdoo was a mistake. So which is it, too soon or not?
The schedule was very easy for the Giants last year,  
prdave73 : 9/10/2017 11:40 pm : link
plus you have Odell Beckham and an amazing Defense that made things easier for Mcadoo last year. The defense alone makes a huge difference, you can win several games with this defense.
RE: I agree the Oline is bad,  
robbieballs2003 : 9/10/2017 11:40 pm : link
In comment 13592954 prdave73 said:
Quote:
but as a coach you should be able to evaluate this and make some changes. Also if you know that your Oline is this bad, at least change your play calling schemes to make up for it. If you saw the game towards the end they finally started to throw short quick passes and where a bit more effective.


That is all we ran all game. Eli was 8/12 for 33 yards at half. That is less than 3 yards per attempt. That is horrendous with a 67% completions.
Mcadoo  
jtfuoco : 9/10/2017 11:40 pm : link
Might be a decent head coach since I think his clock management and late game decision making was good last season. but his offense play calling is terrible and scheme just does not work the fact that he was the only coach in the NFL to run the same formation 90% of the time should have been enough to tell this organization all they need to know about him. They need to bring in a real offensive coordinator and turn to offense over to him like they did with the defense Spags
McAdoo is a good HC, except for his  
CT Charlie : 9/10/2017 11:42 pm : link
insistence on calling the plays. He doesn't have time for in-game analysis, so we're slow to adjust.
It was time for TC to go  
BestFeature : 9/10/2017 11:43 pm : link
But McAdoo was not the answer. He's in way over his head.
RE: I actually like him as the head coach, I like the team identity  
Danny Kanell : 9/10/2017 11:46 pm : link
In comment 13592929 Giants_West said:
Quote:
under him. But as it relates to his continued involvement in the offense, hes fucking failing miserably. The offense has taken a huge step back since he moved to head coach. What gets me is better offensive minds them him have had play calling duties ripped because of not being able to handle both, and it is clear he can't. I think we need a real play caller on the sideline before this team moves forward its next step and I am not sure there is one available at the moment.


Very good post.
RE: RE: I think it take three years to adequately assess a new HC  
Reb8thVA : 9/10/2017 11:47 pm : link
In comment 13592957 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13592951 Reb8thVA said:


Quote:


Last year the team goes 11-5 and everybody thinks McAdoo is the second coming. Parcels goes 3-12-1 in his first year. My point is judging a coach based on one year is deceiving. I think McAdoo still has much to prove.



And yet you'd likely be the first one to agree with Britt that TC should have stayed and McAdoo was a mistake. So which is it, too soon or not?


JCN, no I don't believe Coughlin should have been let go but if you were going to fire him I would have fired Reese as well. Personally I don't enjoy McAdoo's offense. I don't find it enjoyable to watch, but to answer your question yes it is too early to make a definitive assessment of whether he has the goods or not to be head coach
RE: RE: I actually like him as the head coach, I like the team identity  
jcn56 : 9/10/2017 11:50 pm : link
In comment 13593002 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 13592929 Giants_West said:


Quote:


under him. But as it relates to his continued involvement in the offense, hes fucking failing miserably. The offense has taken a huge step back since he moved to head coach. What gets me is better offensive minds them him have had play calling duties ripped because of not being able to handle both, and it is clear he can't. I think we need a real play caller on the sideline before this team moves forward its next step and I am not sure there is one available at the moment.



Very good post.


Agree with GW as well. What I can't figure out is why McAdoo insists on holding both posts. The results have been poor - why not give it up to see if things improve?
RE: RE: RE: I think it take three years to adequately assess a new HC  
jcn56 : 9/10/2017 11:51 pm : link
In comment 13593003 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
In comment 13592957 jcn56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13592951 Reb8thVA said:


Quote:


Last year the team goes 11-5 and everybody thinks McAdoo is the second coming. Parcels goes 3-12-1 in his first year. My point is judging a coach based on one year is deceiving. I think McAdoo still has much to prove.



And yet you'd likely be the first one to agree with Britt that TC should have stayed and McAdoo was a mistake. So which is it, too soon or not?



JCN, no I don't believe Coughlin should have been let go but if you were going to fire him I would have fired Reese as well. Personally I don't enjoy McAdoo's offense. I don't find it enjoyable to watch, but to answer your question yes it is too early to make a definitive assessment of whether he has the goods or not to be head coach


Which in and of itself is a bizarre position considering the past couple of draft and FA cycles. Knowing what we know now about '16 and '17's draft, you'd still fire Reese?
Ditto Reb  
old man : 9/10/2017 11:51 pm : link
JR failed on the #2 thing to build a team around...the OL.
RE: RE: I think it take three years to adequately assess a new HC  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/10/2017 11:53 pm : link
In comment 13592957 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13592951 Reb8thVA said:


Quote:


Last year the team goes 11-5 and everybody thinks McAdoo is the second coming. Parcels goes 3-12-1 in his first year. My point is judging a coach based on one year is deceiving. I think McAdoo still has much to prove.



And yet you'd likely be the first one to agree with Britt that TC should have stayed and McAdoo was a mistake. So which is it, too soon or not?


I thought TC needed to go a few years ago and was a big Mike Zimmerman fan. Wish that had materialized. TC may or May not have needed to go. But the Giants brass fell in love w this guy whose resume for HC was paper thin. Then they win w him by loading up the D. And since he literally does nothing w that side of the ball we are supposed to assume it's his HC demeanor and not the better players or Spags and the players that get the credit.

I'm w PrDave. The guy is not impressive in an X and O way. In fact his offense and play calling are nothing like what they ran in GB. Never was impressed. And I'm pretty sure this D will get this team to 9-10 wins. Dragging this shitty offense and shorty offense scheme w it again.
I'm not seeing it with McAdoo  
djl8699 : 9/10/2017 11:58 pm : link
Last year's schedule was more of a product of some weak teams on the schedule, and some close games the Giants were lucky to win. But even last year there were real points in time where the offense was just inept. In this era of the NFL it's inexcusable to go a whole season with out scoring 30 points. Now they can't even get to 20 anymore.
They ran 90% of the plays last year with the same damn vanilla personnel grouping. It was widely known that's what he was doing and was even pointed out how easy it made the team easy to prepare for. Still no adjustment.
1 WR does not a team make. I don't care if it's Jerry Rice, your offense should not be that incompetent without him. Yes, the offensive line is terrible, but something tells me a good HC would get something out of this team offensively. McAdoo is either not HC material, or he's not ready. He's a terrible choice as Coughlin's successor.
I agree. This situation could actually benefit this team  
prdave73 : 9/10/2017 11:58 pm : link
if he actually stuck to just being the HC and hiring a real offensive coordinator to call the plays. Not actually, it would definitely.
you really think  
japanhead : 9/11/2017 12:04 am : link
sully would do a great job calling plays? i contend that mara forcing sully on mcadoo as the OC is part of the problem.
agree..  
prdave73 : 9/11/2017 12:05 am : link
"In fact his offense and play calling are nothing like what they ran in GB"

We have to remember he was not GB's OC, he was their TE & QB coach which is a huge red flag on why I didn't like this when the Giants hired him for the OC position.
eli improved under mcadoo  
japanhead : 9/11/2017 12:07 am : link
as soon as he was brought in. the OL was not great then either. it's when mcadoo became head coach and sully was brought in as OC that the wheels fell off. do the math..
RE: you really think  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 12:07 am : link
In comment 13593078 japanhead said:
Quote:
sully would do a great job calling plays? i contend that mara forcing sully on mcadoo as the OC is part of the problem.


That's possible - if that's the case, then put Sullivan in charge of the O, make him call the plays, and if we don't get any better, let them can him. What good is it hiding him if that's the case?
Sully?? lmao..  
prdave73 : 9/11/2017 12:09 am : link
The fact that Macdoo brought him in makes me despise him more. This dude was a joke in Tampa Bay, 32nd rank offense lol. And we wonder why this Giants offense is a mess?
Great post  
Mike Graves : 9/11/2017 12:14 am : link
Agree 100%
are you sure mcadoo brought him in?  
japanhead : 9/11/2017 12:24 am : link
my impression is he was kind of forced on mcadoo by mara
The only thing that improved was the completion percentage .  
Bluesbreaker : 9/11/2017 1:39 am : link
we haven't had a running game for like 5 years now and it's
the poor attempt to rebuild it during Eli's prime .
The Philosophy does not fit Eli I am not sure if the play calling will help if its the same plays in the playbook .
While Mac is starring at his Perkins Menu Garrett is stuffing C-notes into the reffs pocket Garret was loose and laughing before the game they saw what we did in pre-season
this offense is a train wreck .
...  
RAIN : 9/11/2017 2:38 am : link
was draft Erik Flowers where they did.
RE: are you sure mcadoo brought him in?  
Vanzetti : 9/11/2017 3:04 am : link
In comment 13593144 japanhead said:
Quote:
my impression is he was kind of forced on mcadoo by mara


Might be the case. Sullivan was in TB while Mac was the OC under Coughlin. So how would they have even known each other? Plus, Sullivan ran a ball control offense based on running the ball in Tampa. Does not seem like a fit with Macadoo
very few thought  
fkap : 9/11/2017 7:32 am : link
McAdoo was the second coming last year. Most thought our D carried the year, and praised Spags. A huge sentiment was that Mac's half of the team was mediocre or worse and that Mac as the O guru was bringing the team down, and hoping this year would see improvement.

11-5 and making the playoffs was a breath of fresh air, but few thought Mac walked on water.

It's too soon to write him off, but he has to show that he can get some milk out of the offensive cow.

Where I think Reese should get some blame is that I think the Giants went with a non hot HC prospect so that they could insist on more say with assistant coaching assembly, and I don't think the coaching staff has shown much to write home about, especially on the offensive side of the ball.
fkap- exactly..  
japanhead : 9/11/2017 8:44 am : link
mcadoo was not in a position to assert his authority over building his own coaching staff and its the insistence on getting guys like sully in the house because he has "the right kind of character" or are ex-military, or because they go to church every sunday, or have walked through giants stadium at some prior point in their career, that drives mara's thinking on a lot of this shit, sadly. i contend sully is the problem, and that it is indicative of a broader problem of mara meddling, but hey, what do i know..
How many games did McAdoo win last year?  
BlueHurricane : 9/11/2017 9:09 am : link
Just wondering. Don't be so reactionary. Its week 1. If by week 8 we are 3-5 and haven't cracked the 20 point mark then maybe this thread will hold some water.
7 games and counting the offense hasn't sniffed 20 points  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 9:11 am : link
This offense can not score. As another poster said on another thread, his offense has NEVER scored 30 points. The routes are poor, the design is poor, as somebody mentioned on another site I read, Sean Lee was able to take away two routes by himself last night. That's poor play design.

Everybody was sugar coating the offensive ineptitude last year by saying "McAdoo is just coaching to the team's strength, the offense doesn't need to score they just need to stay out of the way...." That's not a sustainable model for success in this league and it showed last night.

The Giants offense was better in 2015 with the same group on the O-line. They scored a lot of points all the time. Why McAdoo threw all that out is completely baffling. Tom Coughlin clearly still had a hand in the offense in 2014-2015 even though McAdoo was calling the plays. We never throw the ball downfield anymore.

Our whole offense is predicated on getting the ball to Beckham Jr. on short slants and bubble screens and hope that he breaks one. That's it.
When does Mara come out and declare this offense....  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 9:18 am : link
"broken"?
RE: The guy was hired to be head coach  
TheMick7 : 9/11/2017 9:24 am : link
In comment 13592947 jcn56 said:
Quote:
He took over and the team turned around immediately. Injuries way down. Close games turned from losses into victories.

Where he's been disappointing is on offense - where he's wearing two hats and should certainly give up one. He shouldn't be responsible for offensive playcalling any more.


Lets be real here. If TC had been given Snacks,OV & Jenkins,he could have turned the team around too. I agree that I like his demeanor as HC but this dual job of HC/OC isn't working. Last night's performance is not causing an over reaction as the O hasn't played well since he took on the dual roles. Strangely, the O was much better when he was only OC (maybe because they were constantly playing catch up because the D sucked & TC had input). Yes, the OLine is not good but a good OC comes up w/schemes to counteract that. (Brady played many years w/a terrible OLine, yet their Offense never suffered).I don't think he turns the reins over to Sullivan because he still thinks he's the best solution for the O.As he calls out the O for their poor play,I hope he looks at the man in the mirror!
Yeah, you telling me Tom Coughlin couldn't have won games last year...  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 9:28 am : link
after 200 million was spent on defense?

The 2015 Offense was sixth in the league in scoring. Nothing should have changed there.

The 2015 Offense with the 2016 Defense would have been a Superbowl contender.
We couldn't pass our own 35 yard line in the first half last night.  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 9:31 am : link
We had 32 yards passing and only 2 first downs in an entire half of football last night.

It's looking historically bad.
RE: Yeah, you telling me Tom Coughlin couldn't have won games last year...  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 9:37 am : link
In comment 13593572 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
after 200 million was spent on defense?

The 2015 Offense was sixth in the league in scoring. Nothing should have changed there.

The 2015 Offense with the 2016 Defense would have been a Superbowl contender.


Tom Coughlin could have won those games in 2016 - but for silly mistakes with clock management and late game playcalling. He stubbornly refused to play to the team's strength - which was it's offense, routinely hanging the defense out there to dry.

I liked TC a lot - but his time had come. He was here for 13 seasons, that's a good run for a coach, but ultimately it was time for change.

Do I think he'd be a SB contender with the '16 defense? Probably not, because half the team would be on IR.
I'm not saying his time hadn't come....  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 9:38 am : link
I'm saying we picked the wrong guy to replace him, and may have been sold a false bill of goods.
Look around the league yesterday....  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 9:41 am : link
Every winning team except Dallas and Green Bay scored over 20 points.

Detroit scored 35 yesterday, and we get them next.

We are moving towards 8 games in a row going back to last season where we've failed to hit 20 points.

The NFL is a scoring league. This isn't the 80's anymore. This model is not sustainable.
McAdoo was responsible for the O in 2016  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 9:43 am : link
The fair question is what happened between then and now to cause such a precipitous drop in offensive production.

Was it-
- Different personnel
- McAdoo having a different role in it's execution (HC vs. playcaller with Sullivan as OC)
- Coughlin had input/direction on the offense, and it performed better as a result


It's not the personnel, so that's out. That leaves the last two bullets. It could easily be either one, so you play process of elimination here. It could be that McAdoo is doing too much, and has to give up playcalling. Try changing things at playcaller/OC, and see what happens. If there's still no improvement, then it's possible McAdoo just isn't good enough on his own offensively, and it's time to bring someone in as OC.
regardless of if its sully ..or mac ...or the organization  
idiotsavant : 9/11/2017 9:52 am : link
to me, its not that they are here. but the league is adjusting to lessons taught by shannahan/falcons of 2016, and whereas our team seems to have a huge playbook and an ability to do stuff (to the limit of the OL at least), we don't seem to have a great understanding of whats happening in the league, or a good idea of who we want to be in it, on O.
I just can't wrap my head around the fact that this team can't score  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 10:38 am : link
20 points.

I looked up an old thread I started towards the end of October last year with concern for this fact. This is a trend.

Quote:
Points for through 7 games last year:
Britt in VA : 10/28/2016 10:18 am : link
26
20
32
24
30
7
27
166 Points for through 7 games.

Ended up the season with 420, good for 6th in the NFL. Defense was the problem last year.

Points for through 7 games this year:

20
16
27
10
16
27
17
133 Point for through 7 games

Good for 25th in the NFL currently.


Quote:
Last year's MO was that the offense was going to score a lot of points
Britt in VA : 10/28/2016 11:34 am : link
and the defense was either going to hold or lose it for us in the 4th.

This year's MO is that the defense will keep us in it, and we don't know what the offense will do, if anything.

Through seven games last year, the offense broke 20 points 6 times.

Through seven games this year, the offense broke 20 points only 3 times. That's not good enough, or a sustainable model, to win games in today's NFL.


10/28/16 - ( New Window )
RE: agree..  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/11/2017 10:43 am : link
In comment 13593084 prdave73 said:
Quote:
"In fact his offense and play calling are nothing like what they ran in GB"

We have to remember he was not GB's OC, he was their TE & QB coach which is a huge red flag on why I didn't like this when the Giants hired him for the OC position.

Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Spagnuolo was Philly's LB coach when we first hired him as DC - was that a huge red flag for you too?
RE: RE: The guy was hired to be head coach  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/11/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13593563 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
In comment 13592947 jcn56 said:


Quote:


He took over and the team turned around immediately. Injuries way down. Close games turned from losses into victories.

Where he's been disappointing is on offense - where he's wearing two hats and should certainly give up one. He shouldn't be responsible for offensive playcalling any more.



Lets be real here. If TC had been given Snacks,OV & Jenkins,he could have turned the team around too. I agree that I like his demeanor as HC but this dual job of HC/OC isn't working. Last night's performance is not causing an over reaction as the O hasn't played well since he took on the dual roles. Strangely, the O was much better when he was only OC (maybe because they were constantly playing catch up because the D sucked & TC had input). Yes, the OLine is not good but a good OC comes up w/schemes to counteract that. (Brady played many years w/a terrible OLine, yet their Offense never suffered).I don't think he turns the reins over to Sullivan because he still thinks he's the best solution for the O.As he calls out the O for their poor play,I hope he looks at the man in the mirror!

If TC would have been just as effective, why has no team offered him a head coaching position in two full offseasons since he parted ways with the Giants?
Probably his age.  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 10:50 am : link
Too old to take on a brand new program. But he was already established here.
Pinning yesterday on McAdoo seems foolish to me  
Go Terps : 9/11/2017 10:55 am : link
The only complaint I have with his performance yesterday is that he should probably have challenged the spot on the Dak first down in the first quarter.

I think the blame yesterday lies with Eli Manning, a poor offensive line, and a defense that couldn't get off the field.

The offense is stagnant.  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 11:00 am : link
He's both the designer and playcaller.

We can't score 20 points going back to last season.

I can't understand how he gets a pass.
Didn't read whole thread  
Fish : 9/11/2017 11:03 am : link
But this offensive line is one of the worst. Richburg and Pugh are pretenders. Pugh is a pretty boy. Eli laying on ground, 96 slams him to ground and not one offensive linemen is in that guys face. Total crap from A - Z.
RE: Probably his age.  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13593830 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Too old to take on a brand new program. But he was already established here.


His coaching towards the end didn't do him any favors - he could easily have stepped in as the HC in Jax regardless of his age. Mistakes like these were responsible for him not getting another spot.
Giants clock mismanagement costs them a couple of Ws - ( New Window )
The offense is supposed to be  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/11/2017 11:07 am : link
his baby.

And, uh, it's not good.
Again, I had no problem after three below .500 seasons making a change  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 11:09 am : link
I didn't like it, but I didn't argue against it.

I wanted McAdoo to be the guy.

Unfortunately, I now believe he is not the guy.
It's not about giving him a pass...  
Go Terps : 9/11/2017 11:09 am : link
I think it's about identifying what the problem is. I think the problem is more fundamental than the head coach. Simply, the front office has chosen the wrong time to fuck around on the offensive line. As Eli has aged, the offensive line should have been given more priority. To enter this season with one good known quantity on the OL (Pugh) is a suspect decision when you have a 36 year old pocket quarterback.
RE: It's not about giving him a pass...  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13593900 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I think it's about identifying what the problem is. I think the problem is more fundamental than the head coach. Simply, the front office has chosen the wrong time to fuck around on the offensive line. As Eli has aged, the offensive line should have been given more priority. To enter this season with one good known quantity on the OL (Pugh) is a suspect decision when you have a 36 year old pocket quarterback.


The same offensive line was adequate in 2015. Not good, not great, but adequate.

Why are these young players regressing?
RE: It's not about giving him a pass...  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13593900 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I think it's about identifying what the problem is. I think the problem is more fundamental than the head coach. Simply, the front office has chosen the wrong time to fuck around on the offensive line. As Eli has aged, the offensive line should have been given more priority. To enter this season with one good known quantity on the OL (Pugh) is a suspect decision when you have a 36 year old pocket quarterback.


Did you have a look at some of the games yesterday? OL play was shit everywhere. About the only OL that looked halfway decent was the Rams - which, could be because of their OL FA acquisition, or could be because the Colts are hot garbage (larger sample size needed).
The line was not adequate in 2015  
Go Terps : 9/11/2017 11:14 am : link
It was garbage. A major reason the offensive numbers looked better then is that the defense was putrid, and the offense was frequently in shootouts.

If the 2015 offensive line was adequate, why did we only have 5 rushing TDs all season? Why did we have to throw the ball 600+ times?

The offensive line is, and has been, terrible for years.
RE: The line was not adequate in 2015  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 11:16 am : link
In comment 13593918 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It was garbage. A major reason the offensive numbers looked better then is that the defense was putrid, and the offense was frequently in shootouts.

If the 2015 offensive line was adequate, why did we only have 5 rushing TDs all season? Why did we have to throw the ball 600+ times?

The offensive line is, and has been, terrible for years.


Of course, and nobody has championed that fact louder than me since 2011.

What do shootouts have to do with it? Either we scored a lot of points or we didn't?
RE: RE: RE: The guy was hired to be head coach  
TheMick7 : 9/11/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13593820 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13593563 TheMick7 said:


Quote:


In comment 13592947 jcn56 said:


Quote:


He took over and the team turned around immediately. Injuries way down. Close games turned from losses into victories.

Where he's been disappointing is on offense - where he's wearing two hats and should certainly give up one. He shouldn't be responsible for offensive playcalling any more.



Lets be real here. If TC had been given Snacks,OV & Jenkins,he could have turned the team around too. I agree that I like his demeanor as HC but this dual job of HC/OC isn't working. Last night's performance is not causing an over reaction as the O hasn't played well since he took on the dual roles. Strangely, the O was much better when he was only OC (maybe because they were constantly playing catch up because the D sucked & TC had input). Yes, the OLine is not good but a good OC comes up w/schemes to counteract that. (Brady played many years w/a terrible OLine, yet their Offense never suffered).I don't think he turns the reins over to Sullivan because he still thinks he's the best solution for the O.As he calls out the O for their poor play,I hope he looks at the man in the mirror!


If TC would have been just as effective, why has no team offered him a head coaching position in two full offseasons since he parted ways with the Giants?


It's very rare that coaches in their '70's get offered new HC jobs! Society itself has deemed younger is better. And last years' mantra was just that.The fact that last years'O was terrible while Spag's D (given the tools he needed)kept us in games is indisputable.11-5 was in spite of the O,not because of it! Let's see what is done to remedy this malaise next week, at home with the 2007 Giants in the house being honored & the 2007 QB still at the helm!
Britt  
Go Terps : 9/11/2017 11:21 am : link
The offensive output can be significantly impacted by the type of game you're in. Dallas only scored 19 points yesterday. Did their offense play poorly?

I don't care if we scored 3 points a game last year...we went 11-5. And I'd bet that if Coughlin had been the coach we would have been closer to 5-11.

McAdoo isn't the problem here.
Bigger mistake was letting Reese  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/11/2017 11:27 am : link
attempt to fix this OLine for going on 6 seasons straight. Now more than a half-decade into trying to fix this OLine, and they are still awful, even with 'continuity.'

Disgraceful in every sense of the word.
RE: Again, I had no problem after three below .500 seasons making a change  
Sean : 9/11/2017 11:37 am : link
In comment 13593898 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I didn't like it, but I didn't argue against it.

I wanted McAdoo to be the guy.

Unfortunately, I now believe he is not the guy.


You preached patience with Tom, you've become the poster you used to hate.
RE: RE: Again, I had no problem after three below .500 seasons making a change  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13593984 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13593898 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


I didn't like it, but I didn't argue against it.

I wanted McAdoo to be the guy.

Unfortunately, I now believe he is not the guy.



You preached patience with Tom, you've become the poster you used to hate.


I preached patience with Tom because he was a proven winner.

McAdoo is an unknown and the offense falling off a cliff is completely alarming to say the least.

Lastly, I have no other option than to be patient with McAdoo. But the early returns aren't great.
Actually, the early returns with McAdoo are excellent  
Go Terps : 9/11/2017 11:44 am : link
11-5 in his first season...a record Coughlin achieved only twice in 12 years.
On offense, his specialty, the returns stink.  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 11:45 am : link
.
RE: The guy was hired to be head coach  
Section331 : 9/11/2017 11:49 am : link
In comment 13592947 jcn56 said:
Quote:
He took over and the team turned around immediately. Injuries way down. Close games turned from losses into victories.

Where he's been disappointing is on offense - where he's wearing two hats and should certainly give up one. He shouldn't be responsible for offensive playcalling any more.


This. My guess is that Mac realizes he has a top defense, and plays it close to the vest offensively. He needs to open it up. If that involves him giving up playcalling, fine. I'm just not certain Sullivan is up to the task.
No, the returns were 11-5  
Go Terps : 9/11/2017 11:52 am : link
The head coach is responsible for the whole team, not one side of the ball. 11-5 is 11-5. It doesn't matter if the scores to the game are 3-0 or 49-42.

In Coughlin's first season we went 6-10. Were you complaining about early returns then?
RE: No, the returns were 11-5  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13594034 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The head coach is responsible for the whole team, not one side of the ball. 11-5 is 11-5. It doesn't matter if the scores to the game are 3-0 or 49-42.

In Coughlin's first season we went 6-10. Were you complaining about early returns then?


When the head coach also calls the plays on offense, then yeah, he's responsible for the offensive side of the ball.
RE: RE: The guy was hired to be head coach  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13594026 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13592947 jcn56 said:


Quote:


He took over and the team turned around immediately. Injuries way down. Close games turned from losses into victories.

Where he's been disappointing is on offense - where he's wearing two hats and should certainly give up one. He shouldn't be responsible for offensive playcalling any more.



This. My guess is that Mac realizes he has a top defense, and plays it close to the vest offensively. He needs to open it up. If that involves him giving up playcalling, fine. I'm just not certain Sullivan is up to the task.


I'm in the same boat - but if Sullivan isn't, then what's the sense of keeping him in the background? Put him front and center, let him sink or swim, and if we need a new OC go out and get one.
He's also responsible for the defense, and for special teams  
Go Terps : 9/11/2017 11:56 am : link
He's responsible for putting each in the best position to win...an area where Coughlin started failing miserably going back to 2013.

11-5 is 11-5. McAdoo deserves a longer leash than one game this year before he starts getting shit on.
Right now is where Mac proves himself as a coach  
AcesUp : 9/11/2017 11:57 am : link
I like his temperament and disposition, I think it suits being a head coach in this market. However, his offense is in a rut, and that's being kind. At the very least they need a spark, so this is the time he needs to prove that he can be a leader by delegating the playcalling to Sullivan. He's gotta swallow some pride and he's got to have the will power to relinquish some control. Humility and pragmatism. That will prove that he has what it takes to be a successful head coach.
RE: On offense, his specialty, the returns stink.  
HomerJones45 : 9/11/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13594010 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.
I agree with you, but Coughlin is gone and nothing is going to change that. I thought it was idiotic to buy a Ferrari and turn it over to a kid with a learner's permit, but what is done is done.

We won a ton of close games last season (7 out of 11 by 6 points or less) so McAdoo never had to face adversity. Let's see how McAdoo responds to adversity and gets ODB back before passing judgment.
11-5  
prdave73 : 9/11/2017 1:13 pm : link
with a very easy schedule, Odell, and a very good defense who saved the offense a few times last year. Many coaches with that can succeed..
RE: 11-5  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/11/2017 2:33 pm : link
In comment 13594269 prdave73 said:
Quote:
with a very easy schedule, Odell, and a very good defense who saved the offense a few times last year. Many coaches with that can succeed..

No, there aren't a lot of coaches, particularly rookie head coaches, who can do that. Just because it's your (ill-informed) opinion, doesn't make it true.
RE: RE: On offense, his specialty, the returns stink.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/11/2017 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13594149 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13594010 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


.

I agree with you, but Coughlin is gone and nothing is going to change that. I thought it was idiotic to buy a Ferrari and turn it over to a kid with a learner's permit, but what is done is done.

We won a ton of close games last season (7 out of 11 by 6 points or less) so McAdoo never had to face adversity. Let's see how McAdoo responds to adversity and gets ODB back before passing judgment.


That's a weird thing to say. Close games ARE adversity. The entire season was a tightrope walk.

If they were blowing teams out by 20, that would be a lack of adversity.
Great post  
gmenatlarge : 9/12/2017 9:53 am : link
who wants to go 11-5 and make the playoffs? we should have tanked for that high draft pick and maybe change coaches and GM every other year. That's a tried and true recipe for success!!
RE: Amen  
EricJ : 9/12/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13592904 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
But the players have to look in the mirror too. The don't execute. It's like they don't play or practice together.


I really hate hearing that "execute" word thrown around so much. There are two things when it comes to execution..

1. beating the man in front of you. Yes, you should do that no matter what play is called.
2. execution of a play or scheme that may be destined to fail from the start. So, in a simple example if the plan is to run the ball and the defense knows it, they will bring more bodies than you can block...making execution near impossible.

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