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Big Defender of Eli Manning...

M.S. : 9/11/2017 5:29 am
...over the years. I believe he is a Hall of Fame QB, and I have strongly believed over the past several years (like many others on BBI) that his play has been adversely affected by a weak offensive line that has transformed his game (obviously for the worse).

I also realize that over his entire career there has always been the "good" Eli and the "bad" Eli, and it is our very good fortune that we only saw the former in two amazing Super Bowl runs.

But, but, but...

...in watching games around the league yesterday (especially watching Carson Wentz), a deep gnawing thought crept in that reminded me of the same damn gnawing thoughts I had on occasion about Eli last season (and at times) over the past three or four seasons... and were on full display last night:

(1) Eli is old and he moves around like he is old;
(2) Eli's game was never about making amazing plays with his legs, but he looks more immobile than ever before;
(3) If things are not just perfect for him in the pocket, Eli gets increasingly jittery and his accuracy goes (way) down;
(4) It doesn't look like Eli is able to lift the game of those around him, nor does it look like he is energizing those around him.

Clearly, Eli missed OBJ and his O-line compounded the problem last night, but right now, the Giants have more than just an offensive line to worry about as this season progresses and beyond.

Regardless of how you feel about our Divisional rival QBs, we have in fact two opponents (Dallas and Philly) that have very young and very mobile QBs who can make plays when things are not perfect. And their team mates respond and feed off of them.

We do not. And that is a very big problem.

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GENO  
riceneggs : 9/11/2017 7:37 am : link
I know the giants don’t operate like this. But I would’ve loved for them to bring in Geno for a couple series in the first half/3rd quarter. With Geno throwing safe passes and running when he wasn’t 100% sure. Just to get the chains moving. Just to get some energy flowing
RE: GENO  
M.S. : 9/11/2017 7:44 am : link
In comment 13593306 riceneggs said:
Quote:
I know the giants don’t operate like this. But I would’ve loved for them to bring in Geno for a couple series in the first half/3rd quarter. With Geno throwing safe passes and running when he wasn’t 100% sure. Just to get the chains moving. Just to get some energy flowing

Agree!

The offense is in low energy mode, and I'm afraid that Eli cannot be our electrical generator.

It will be a very long season if we are zapped in the month of Sept!
Tough watching Eli's talent erode after a great career  
Rick in Dallas : 9/11/2017 7:48 am : link
Mobility,arm strength and accuracy seem to be on the decline.
Is anyone really surprised since JR did nothing to improve a bad OL.We picked up Fluker in FA
who the Chargers gave up on last year and drafted Bisnowaty in the draft who didn't make the 53 man squad.
It is going to be a long season watching our offense again struggle like last year.
We are wasting Eli's final years as the Giant QB with one of the worst OL's in the NFL.
JR should be fired for ignoring the Giant's major weakness last year, the OL.
It must be easy for other team's DC to game plan our current offense.
Get ready for a long season!!!



RE: Tough watching Eli's talent erode after a great career  
M.S. : 9/11/2017 7:56 am : link
In comment 13593322 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Mobility,arm strength and accuracy seem to be on the decline.
Is anyone really surprised since JR did nothing to improve a bad OL.We picked up Fluker in FA
who the Chargers gave up on last year and drafted Bisnowaty in the draft who didn't make the 53 man squad.
It is going to be a long season watching our offense again struggle like last year.
We are wasting Eli's final years as the Giant QB with one of the worst OL's in the NFL.
JR should be fired for ignoring the Giant's major weakness last year, the OL.
It must be easy for other team's DC to game plan our current offense.
Get ready for a long season!!!



Yep! I'm reminded of the year or two Arnsbarger (sp) was here in the mid-70s. He actually put together the nucleus of a good defense, but the o-line was bad, and the general offensive skill players just as bad...

...and the ghost of that 70s offense descended onto the Dallas playing field last night.
Well, if there's any year to have a terrible record  
jeff57 : 9/11/2017 7:58 am : link
and you need a QB, it's this year.
The situation with the team is going to get a lot worse guys...  
EricJ : 9/11/2017 7:59 am : link
and this topic may deserve its own thread too...

Odell's new contract is going to be very expensive. Possibly looking for money that will make him the highest paid WR in history. Doing that not only weakens what we have right now, but leaves little room to sign quality free agent O-linemen. I don't think we have a lot of high paid guys on the offense other than Eli. We are not going to find a new QB (Nor are we looking either) before Odell's new contract.

So, will the money have to come from the defensive side of the ball? If so, this team is going to get worse before it gets better.
Eli  
riceneggs : 9/11/2017 8:01 am : link
I can’t keep putting this on the Oline tho. They suck, don’t get me wrong, but Eli had more than enough time….on more than enough plays…to make something happen.
We all get old at some point in life. I just don’t think he can process information at a high level anymore.

Yall pray for me! I sit directly beside two diehard cowboy fans at work.
RE: The situation with the team is going to get a lot worse guys...  
riceneggs : 9/11/2017 8:02 am : link
In comment 13593341 EricJ said:
Quote:
and this topic may deserve its own thread too...

Odell's new contract is going to be very expensive. Possibly looking for money that will make him the highest paid WR in history. Doing that not only weakens what we have right now, but leaves little room to sign quality free agent O-linemen. I don't think we have a lot of high paid guys on the offense other than Eli. We are not going to find a new QB (Nor are we looking either) before Odell's new contract.

So, will the money have to come from the defensive side of the ball? If so, this team is going to get worse before it gets better.


we just drafted a QB
Enough with the "improve the OL crap"  
Dave on the UWS : 9/11/2017 8:03 am : link
OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.
Eli's immobility has been a topic of discussion for a decade  
Beezer : 9/11/2017 8:03 am : link
or more here, and everywhere. It's been the punchline of jokes.

I thought he did a fairly decent job of staying as clean as possibly could have by stepping up, around, etc. when there was pressure.

The problem isn't his immobility. It's that he's become accustomed, over the past few years, to feeling more pressure, thus throwing some balls away, and at times hurrying them to the point of some bad balls like we saw last night (a few directed at Marshall).

If he isn't harried, he completes that ball to Marshall on the left, in the fourth, and the drive continues, and then you never know, at 16-3. Instead, the INT happens, trying to thread a needle, and it goes to 19-3 with less time remaining.

You can't place it on Eli's immobility. String theory, folks ... everything is connected and has an affect on everything else.
RE: RE: The situation with the team is going to get a lot worse guys...  
EricJ : 9/11/2017 8:04 am : link
In comment 13593349 riceneggs said:
Quote:



we just drafted a QB


Webb is a backup QB... that is what they drafted.
RE: RE: RE: The situation with the team is going to get a lot worse guys...  
jeff57 : 9/11/2017 8:05 am : link
In comment 13593361 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13593349 riceneggs said:


Quote:





we just drafted a QB



Webb is a backup QB... that is what they drafted.


And also without a lot of mobility.
Time Erodes Skills  
Jeffrey : 9/11/2017 8:16 am : link
Simple reality folks--you cannot cheat time. Eli is an older QB. His skills have eroded. His lack of mobility is more pronounced. Always prone to streaks, his inaccurate streaks are more frequent and he is being placed in an offense which requires a shorter drop and quick release. Add a completely inept line and a coach who has lost his mojo in calling the offense and there is no reason for shock at the outcome last night.
the people clamoring for Geno Smith  
PaulBlakeTSU : 9/11/2017 8:16 am : link
are the same ones who clamored for Nassib. Someone remind me the team Nassib currently plays for.

Other quarterbacks could perform better with this offensive line, particularly more mobile QBs. But no QB is making the offense hum. The line is absolute dogshit and gets our QB killed if he doesn't release the ball immediately.

RE: Enough with the  
EricJ : 9/11/2017 8:16 am : link
In comment 13593353 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.


What I am going to say is not ground breaking. When the defense is coming at your QB like we saw last night, you have to run more screens. We still do a lousy job of designing, executing and calling enough of those to provide relief for Eli. If you can do that effectively, it buys you some time on plays where you are not running a screen. Since we barely do it enough, defenses are not trying to defend against it.
90%  
riceneggs : 9/11/2017 8:18 am : link
another alarming thing from last night….

I guess it was collinsworth who said that, last year, 90% of our offensive plays were ran in the same set/formation.

did anyone else hear that?
RE: 90%  
Beezer : 9/11/2017 8:20 am : link
In comment 13593380 riceneggs said:
Quote:
another alarming thing from last night….

I guess it was collinsworth who said that, last year, 90% of our offensive plays were ran in the same set/formation.

did anyone else hear that?


While the comment may have been made last night, what does it have to do with last night's game?

Also, welcome to BBI. That's a topic that's been discussed for months, and I'm probably underplaying that time frame.
Eli's immobility  
gmenatlarge : 9/11/2017 8:23 am : link
is no secret, yet we continue with probably the worst O-line in the league, bad combo! Reese did virtually nothing in the off-season but just cross his fingers and hope they play better. I'm not even sure Jerry should be on an NFL roster, Jones can't be worse and played well in the preseason, it's time to so SOMETHING, ugh!
Eli need everything to be perfect in order to be effective.  
NorwoodWideRight : 9/11/2017 8:26 am : link
He needs time in the pocket without being hurried. He needs the running game/play action to be working effectively and he needs his receivers to be able to reach above/behind their bodies or work their routes to come back on short passes. Gone are the days when Eli can carry this team. I'm afraid, with what we've got, Eli just won't be a great quarterback.

Jittery is a word I have used for over 2 seasons now. Eli sees pressure and becomes a rookie quarterback all over again. Even when he can effectively step up or roll out or dump off, Eli because either wholly inaccurate, he quits his reads and goes to his option, or he becomes a fumble/turnover machine.
RE: the people clamoring for Geno Smith  
riceneggs : 9/11/2017 8:27 am : link
In comment 13593374 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
are the same ones who clamored for Nassib. Someone remind me the team Nassib currently plays for.

Other quarterbacks could perform better with this offensive line, particularly more mobile QBs. But no QB is making the offense hum. The line is absolute dogshit and gets our QB killed if he doesn't release the ball immediately.


noone is clamoring for Geno. I simply said that he couldve been a spark. he couldve, at the least, ran for a couple first downs
RE: Enough with the  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 8:29 am : link
In comment 13593353 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.


I hate to think that way but I agree with this post. Can't think of another QB in the league as immobile as Eli, and certainly can't think of an OL that would be able to protect him (first inclination would be Dallas, but even Dak had to move around a fair bit last night).

Might be the game has passed him by.
RE: RE: 90%  
riceneggs : 9/11/2017 8:30 am : link
In comment 13593381 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 13593380 riceneggs said:


Quote:


another alarming thing from last night….

I guess it was collinsworth who said that, last year, 90% of our offensive plays were ran in the same set/formation.

did anyone else hear that?



While the comment may have been made last night, what does it have to do with last night's game?

Also, welcome to BBI. That's a topic that's been discussed for months, and I'm probably underplaying that time frame.


well, we only had 45 yards in the first half. and didnt get things moving until we switched it up on offense with formations and such, i'd say it's very relevant to last nights game
RE: The situation with the team is going to get a lot worse guys...  
M.S. : 9/11/2017 8:39 am : link
In comment 13593341 EricJ said:
Quote:
and this topic may deserve its own thread too...

Odell's new contract is going to be very expensive. Possibly looking for money that will make him the highest paid WR in history. Doing that not only weakens what we have right now, but leaves little room to sign quality free agent O-linemen. I don't think we have a lot of high paid guys on the offense other than Eli. We are not going to find a new QB (Nor are we looking either) before Odell's new contract.

So, will the money have to come from the defensive side of the ball? If so, this team is going to get worse before it gets better.

Maybe the money has to come out of Eli!
Could it...  
smorgan741 : 9/11/2017 8:46 am : link
have been a mistake to limit Eli in preseason?
the conditions don't have to be perfect....  
BillKo : 9/11/2017 9:10 am : link
but you have to give your QB a chance to go thru progressions.

Eli is checking down because he doesn't have time to scan.

The running game was pathetic last night.

I agree with Blake...even a mobile QB would have struggled/stalled because this offense is poorly designed right now.
I thought Eli moved around the pocket (or whatever was there)  
PatersonPlank : 9/11/2017 9:16 am : link
fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.
RE: RE: Enough with the  
BillKo : 9/11/2017 9:17 am : link
In comment 13593398 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13593353 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.



I hate to think that way but I agree with this post. Can't think of another QB in the league as immobile as Eli, and certainly can't think of an OL that would be able to protect him (first inclination would be Dallas, but even Dak had to move around a fair bit last night).

Might be the game has passed him by.


Brady, Palmer, and Ryan come to mind. Phillip Rivers too.

And, you saw Wilson struggle with lack of an OL and running game yesterday on the road.
RE: the conditions don't have to be perfect....  
M.S. : 9/11/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13593523 BillKo said:
Quote:
but you have to give your QB a chance to go thru progressions.

Eli is checking down because he doesn't have time to scan.

The running game was pathetic last night.

I agree with Blake...even a mobile QB would have struggled/stalled because this offense is poorly designed right now.

I didn't see 2 running plays in a row in the first half. Hard to say the run game was pathetic when we didn't even see it. In fact, there were some positive gains in the 14 plays from scrimmage (or whatever the number was) we had last night.
RE: RE: the conditions don't have to be perfect....  
BillKo : 9/11/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13593611 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 13593523 BillKo said:


Quote:


but you have to give your QB a chance to go thru progressions.

Eli is checking down because he doesn't have time to scan.

The running game was pathetic last night.

I agree with Blake...even a mobile QB would have struggled/stalled because this offense is poorly designed right now.


I didn't see 2 running plays in a row in the first half. Hard to say the run game was pathetic when we didn't even see it. In fact, there were some positive gains in the 14 plays from scrimmage (or whatever the number was) we had last night.


It's pathetic when you run for that amount of yardage in a football game, maybe I should put it that way!!!!! Game plan or performance.

What are you calling a positive play, more than 2 yards, but under four? We averaged 2.9 yards.

Darwka had the only good run, for about 11 yards.
RE: I thought Eli moved around the pocket (or whatever was there)  
M.S. : 9/11/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13593542 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.

All that you say is true.

But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.

Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.

Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.

Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.
It's impossible to throw downfield  
GiantsLaw : 9/11/2017 9:48 am : link
when you don't have a WR that can challenge downfield. Eli was forced to dink and dunk because he didn't have anyone that could separate 10 yds downfield.
RE: Enough with the  
AcesUp : 9/11/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13593353 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.


This. If you watch all the games on Sunday you see that OL issues are not unique to the Giants, the play on the line across the league is a problem. At some point you have to wonder, or even accept, that the biggest problem on the offense may be the obvious one. I'm hopeful we get a lot things cleaned up, but we need to stop pointing fingers at everything but the QB because it's a position that didn't help us last year and didn't help us last night. Eli needs to be better.
I actually thought he moved pretty well in the pocket,  
Section331 : 9/11/2017 9:59 am : link
but he had to do it too often. The tackles were bad, but please, put John Jerry out of our misery. God he is awful. I do not want to see his fat ass on the field again.

If we want to talk about someone getting old, I'm afraid it was Brandon Marshall. It is only one game, but with Odell out, he needed to step up. I've seen many blame Eli for missing BM all alone in the flat, but to me, that was all on Marshall. Eli was (once again!) running for his life, and Marshall didn't have a defender within 20 yards of him. He should have sat down and established a target, but even after the ball was thrown, he was still moving towards the LOS. Where the hell was he going?

Eli didn't play well, but he had little help. The INT was a mistake, he once again allowed himself to be duped by a DB faking a zone coverage, but what really irked me was inside the red zone on the FG drive. He had Marshall one-on-one with a smaller CB, but didn't go to him. That's why we got Marshall, to use his size on the end zone. He has to take a shot there.
The end is not nigh  
PetesHereNow : 9/11/2017 10:06 am : link
This was a replay of the Minnesota game when Beckham was suspended. The line still sucks. Eli doesn't have the game timing with Marshall yet. He was able to connect with Shep pretty well. Engram caught a few, but nothing that threatened down the field. The running game doesn't threaten anyone. It's not some decline of Eli Manning. It's a combination of bad OL play, lack of game reps, and the fact that this isn't Rod Marinelli's first rodeo. Marinelli knew Eli wasn't going to have the time or talent to burn him deep, So you bring everyone up, play your safeties aggressively, and make the 5-15 yard routes impossible to throw. Game over.
RE: RE: RE: Enough with the  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 10:09 am : link
In comment 13593545 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 13593398 jcn56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13593353 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.



I hate to think that way but I agree with this post. Can't think of another QB in the league as immobile as Eli, and certainly can't think of an OL that would be able to protect him (first inclination would be Dallas, but even Dak had to move around a fair bit last night).

Might be the game has passed him by.



Brady, Palmer, and Ryan come to mind. Phillip Rivers too.

And, you saw Wilson struggle with lack of an OL and running game yesterday on the road.


Three of those guys are more mobile than Eli - and Palmer, the lone exception, looked pretty bad yesterday too and has been inconsistent for awhile.
RE: RE: I thought Eli moved around the pocket (or whatever was there)  
BillKo : 9/11/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13593633 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 13593542 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.


All that you say is true.

But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.

Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.

Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.

Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.


But here's the thing. You know what Eli is....it's the organization's job to build around that. Additionally, you drafted a guy who isn't that mobile either from what I read.

Hate to say it, but it's almost like you're setting him up for failure..............or hoping you catch lightening in a bottle and the OL suddenly "clicks".
RE: RE: RE: RE: Enough with the  
BillKo : 9/11/2017 10:13 am : link
In comment 13593707 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13593545 BillKo said:


Quote:


In comment 13593398 jcn56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13593353 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.



I hate to think that way but I agree with this post. Can't think of another QB in the league as immobile as Eli, and certainly can't think of an OL that would be able to protect him (first inclination would be Dallas, but even Dak had to move around a fair bit last night).

Might be the game has passed him by.



Brady, Palmer, and Ryan come to mind. Phillip Rivers too.

And, you saw Wilson struggle with lack of an OL and running game yesterday on the road.



Three of those guys are more mobile than Eli - and Palmer, the lone exception, looked pretty bad yesterday too and has been inconsistent for awhile.


LOL...more mobile, but how much? Cmon...they are all pocket passers. I'll give you Ryan because he's still younger and can move a bit better.
Agree M.S.  
BigBlueWhale : 9/11/2017 10:14 am : link
He actually looks old to me for the 1st time. He's always looked like Eli - physically. I can see the age in his face and body for the 1st time, this year.

It's not a given he plays well at 36. Most players are done long before that. To me he reminds me of Bledsoe at the end, Favre, Peyton, and all the other great QBs who were finished.
RE: RE: RE: I thought Eli moved around the pocket (or whatever was there)  
M.S. : 9/11/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13593716 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 13593633 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 13593542 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.


All that you say is true.

But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.

Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.

Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.

Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.



But here's the thing. You know what Eli is....it's the organization's job to build around that. Additionally, you drafted a guy who isn't that mobile either from what I read.

Hate to say it, but it's almost like you're setting him up for failure..............or hoping you catch lightening in a bottle and the OL suddenly "clicks".

Again... all that you say is true. And Jerry Reese is the one who failed to protect the crown jewel of this team with a functional offensive line. Now the jewel is tarnished and aging right before our eyes.
RE: RE: RE: I thought Eli moved around the pocket (or whatever was there)  
AcesUp : 9/11/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13593716 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 13593633 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 13593542 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.


All that you say is true.

But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.

Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.

Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.

Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.



But here's the thing. You know what Eli is....it's the organization's job to build around that. Additionally, you drafted a guy who isn't that mobile either from what I read.

Hate to say it, but it's almost like you're setting him up for failure..............or hoping you catch lightening in a bottle and the OL suddenly "clicks".


You're paying Eli 24m/yr, he has a stud defense and weapons all over the place (even without OBJ). Where are we getting the resources to get him more? He's not playing up to his price tag, probably the only spot on the team that is underperforming it's cap value, we need to stop making excuses for him.
IMO...  
BillKo : 9/11/2017 10:24 am : link
the philosophy this particular offense is tarnished more than the QB.

Look at some of those play calls and routes last night........it's no where near imaginative offensive football.

Does the OL limit it? Probably.

The first drive of the second half, the protection was better and you saw the result. But it wasn't sustainable.

I think people are a bit off on one point...  
Giantfan in skinland : 9/11/2017 10:29 am : link
It's not that the only way Eli can be effective is if he's given time in the pocket. We have seen him operate well when harassed during his career. What I think he needs is confidence that at least somewhat regularly, his OL will give him a chance. To me, the biggest issue with him right now is that he has no trust that the OL will provide protection. A lot of the time, he's right....and then even when they do give him some time or when he evades pressure, he's feeling pressure (which at times isn't even there). So it's not that he needs everything to be perfect/blocked up well....I think he just needs to have some faith in the guys around him. Right now, he clearly doesn't have it and it shows.
Can't really judge Eli at this point  
HBart : 9/11/2017 10:31 am : link
Elli's always been the little girl with the curl. He was bad for much (perhaps most) of 2007. Then he got hot for 5 games. Voila! Lombardi!

Assuming no dreadful injuries and that OBJ comes back Eli will have bright spots along with plenty of horrible play. That's him. At his age, with this OL, probably fewer bright spots than before (which isn't good since his crap to great ratio was always high for a top third NFL QB). But who knows - his greatest asset is his smarts and his uncanny ability to play far better at key times than his mean level of play. He's like John Daly. Don't count him out or assume the suckitude of last night will continue.
In other words  
Giantfan in skinland : 9/11/2017 10:32 am : link
when he had a little more faith in the OL, he played confidently in the face of pressure. When he got time, he executed and when he didn't....he did a better job of responding to it.

Now, I see him anticipating pressure. He isn't countering it when it comes and he's not capitalizing on the opportunities when it doesn't.
I think the last three posts.....  
BillKo : 9/11/2017 10:34 am : link
hit the problem right on the head.
RE: I think people are a bit off on one point...  
M.S. : 9/11/2017 10:37 am : link
In comment 13593770 Giantfan in skinland said:
Quote:
It's not that the only way Eli can be effective is if he's given time in the pocket. We have seen him operate well when harassed during his career. What I think he needs is confidence that at least somewhat regularly, his OL will give him a chance. To me, the biggest issue with him right now is that he has no trust that the OL will provide protection. A lot of the time, he's right....and then even when they do give him some time or when he evades pressure, he's feeling pressure (which at times isn't even there). So it's not that he needs everything to be perfect/blocked up well....I think he just needs to have some faith in the guys around him. Right now, he clearly doesn't have it and it shows.

Well played, Sir!
RE: RE: RE: RE: I thought Eli moved around the pocket (or whatever was there)  
M.S. : 9/11/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13593753 AcesUp said:
Quote:
In comment 13593716 BillKo said:


Quote:


In comment 13593633 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 13593542 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.


All that you say is true.

But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.

Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.

Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.

Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.



But here's the thing. You know what Eli is....it's the organization's job to build around that. Additionally, you drafted a guy who isn't that mobile either from what I read.

Hate to say it, but it's almost like you're setting him up for failure..............or hoping you catch lightening in a bottle and the OL suddenly "clicks".



You're paying Eli 24m/yr, he has a stud defense and weapons all over the place (even without OBJ). Where are we getting the resources to get him more? He's not playing up to his price tag, probably the only spot on the team that is underperforming it's cap value, we need to stop making excuses for him.

I'm afraid you're dead-on when you say Eli is not playing up to his contract numbers. Unfortunately, too much of his pay is based on his past glory. Not his current performance.

I still have faith in Eli... but we're all being treated to a very ugly scenario with this offense and the leader of this offense.
I don't want to spin this into a McAdoo thread but...  
kinard : 9/11/2017 10:48 am : link
... even with Eli Manning not being sharp, how can you be an offensive guru and not score 20 points in an an NFL game seven times in a row? Didn't score 30 points once last year? Jeesh
RE: GENO  
Jersey55 : 9/11/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13593306 riceneggs said:
Quote:
I know the giants don’t operate like this. But I would’ve loved for them to bring in Geno for a couple series in the first half/3rd quarter. With Geno throwing safe passes and running when he wasn’t 100% sure. Just to get the chains moving. Just to get some energy flowing
does anybody think McAdoo has the stones to sit Eli for a few series and bring in Geno to see if he can get something going, Eli seems to be untouchable for something like that
RE: 90%  
Carson53 : 9/11/2017 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13593380 riceneggs said:
Quote:
another alarming thing from last night….

I guess it was collinsworth who said that, last year, 90% of our offensive plays were ran in the same set/formation.

did anyone else hear that?
.

Yes, he was right, 11 personnel group. 1 TE, and 1 RB.
They are going to use more formations this year.
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