...over the years. I believe he is a Hall of Fame QB, and I have strongly believed over the past several years (like many others on BBI) that his play has been adversely affected by a weak offensive line that has transformed his game (obviously for the worse).
I also realize that over his entire career there has always been the "good" Eli and the "bad" Eli, and it is our very good fortune that we only saw the former in two amazing Super Bowl runs.
But, but, but...
...in watching games around the league yesterday (especially watching Carson Wentz), a deep gnawing thought crept in that reminded me of the same damn gnawing thoughts I had on occasion about Eli last season (and at times) over the past three or four seasons... and were on full display last night:
(1) Eli is old and he moves around like he is old;
(2) Eli's game was never about making amazing plays with his legs, but he looks more immobile than ever before;
(3) If things are not just perfect for him in the pocket, Eli gets increasingly jittery and his accuracy goes (way) down;
(4) It doesn't look like Eli is able to lift the game of those around him, nor does it look like he is energizing those around him.
Clearly, Eli missed OBJ and his O-line compounded the problem last night, but right now, the Giants have more than just an offensive line to worry about as this season progresses and beyond.
Regardless of how you feel about our Divisional rival QBs, we have in fact two opponents (Dallas and Philly) that have very young and very mobile QBs who can make plays when things are not perfect. And their team mates respond and feed off of them.
We do not. And that is a very big problem.
The Eagles have had McNabb and Vick and zero SBs to show for it
The Cowboys had Romo and no SBs with him either
The Eagles have had McNabb and Vick and zero SBs to show for it
The Cowboys had Romo and no SBs with him either
twostepgiants... you're talking about the Giants of the past and you're talking about Eli of the past. Hate to say this, but we are playing with a QB who is looking at his best years in the rear view mirror. The road ahead looks very bumpy and downright scary. And if the entire offense is a passenger in the car driven by Eli, they do not look very confident that the driver will negotiate the next sharp curve ahead.
I definitely agree our offense lacks creatively, but my question is: Why / how did Eli thrive when the head coach was the offensive coordinator?
Eli escaped a few times as well to his credit, but I don't see this combo if his lack of mobility and this line continuing much longer...
Poor Eli. They need to get him some help. He shouldn't have to go out like this.
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there are play designs and play calling that could nullify the negative impact of having an immobile QB. The problem is, Mac's offense isn't the right fit. The play designs are not creative and the calling is predictable. That's why it takes and Aaron Rodgers to make it effective. Your scheme needs to match your players' talents - ours doesn't. It doesn't match our QB's skillset or the lack of skillset on the OL....which makes for a bad combination.
I definitely agree our offense lacks creatively, but my question is: Why / how did Eli thrive when the head coach was the offensive coordinator?
If you mean back when they were winning with Coughlin/Gilbride, I'd say that offense had significant flaws as well, but was actually better suited to Manning's talents. It wasn't great for a poor O-line though and that was the downfall of Gilbride. Once the O-line started to deteriorate, that was it. So the Giants brought in Mac with his west coast style, but there are multiple west coast styles now and the Green Bay one is reliant on a mobile QB - or - a solid O-line. GB had both for a bit, but their o-line is rough now...mitigated by Aaron's ability to move around. Eli's not so blessed in that department.
A better style would be the Pittsburgh offensive scheme, or Arizona, or Atlanta, etc. Nothing prevents Mac from implementing some plays from those other offenses, but he has to connect the dots first and actually make the change. That's my take anyway.
Yes, and his life depends upon it.
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In comment 13593244 SeanLandeta said:
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there are play designs and play calling that could nullify the negative impact of having an immobile QB. The problem is, Mac's offense isn't the right fit. The play designs are not creative and the calling is predictable. That's why it takes and Aaron Rodgers to make it effective. Your scheme needs to match your players' talents - ours doesn't. It doesn't match our QB's skillset or the lack of skillset on the OL....which makes for a bad combination.
I definitely agree our offense lacks creatively, but my question is: Why / how did Eli thrive when the head coach was the offensive coordinator?
If you mean back when they were winning with Coughlin/Gilbride, I'd say that offense had significant flaws as well, but was actually better suited to Manning's talents. It wasn't great for a poor O-line though and that was the downfall of Gilbride. Once the O-line started to deteriorate, that was it. So the Giants brought in Mac with his west coast style, but there are multiple west coast styles now and the Green Bay one is reliant on a mobile QB - or - a solid O-line. GB had both for a bit, but their o-line is rough now...mitigated by Aaron's ability to move around. Eli's not so blessed in that department.
A better style would be the Pittsburgh offensive scheme, or Arizona, or Atlanta, etc. Nothing prevents Mac from implementing some plays from those other offenses, but he has to connect the dots first and actually make the change. That's my take anyway.
I'm pretty sure he means when McAdoo was the OC under Coughlin. People claim that McAdoo's offense is a bad fit for Eli, yet seem to forget that Eli had two of the best seasons of his career with McAdoo as OC
Also the older you get the more the hits hurt and the less willing he is to take them. The less comfortable he seems to be operating amidst the chaotic traffic that can be present in the pocket. These are just some subtle signs of decline. He's going to turn 37 this season, you aren't the same player at that age barring few exceptions (and I'm even skeptical that those exceptions are more circumstance based than the absence of decline in individual skill). Getting OBJ back will be a big lift though and I don't think Eli is done. But he's not quite the same player he once was. I think this supporting cast still has a ton of ability and when healthy can help mask that a tad though
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high completion on safe short throws which go nowhere.
Yes, and his life depends upon it.
Even on plays where he had time, he was dumping it off. He's done. The clock in his head is broken.
Agree!
The offense is in low energy mode, and I'm afraid that Eli cannot be our electrical generator.
It will be a very long season if we are zapped in the month of Sept!
Is anyone really surprised since JR did nothing to improve a bad OL.We picked up Fluker in FA
who the Chargers gave up on last year and drafted Bisnowaty in the draft who didn't make the 53 man squad.
It is going to be a long season watching our offense again struggle like last year.
We are wasting Eli's final years as the Giant QB with one of the worst OL's in the NFL.
JR should be fired for ignoring the Giant's major weakness last year, the OL.
It must be easy for other team's DC to game plan our current offense.
Get ready for a long season!!!
Is anyone really surprised since JR did nothing to improve a bad OL.We picked up Fluker in FA
who the Chargers gave up on last year and drafted Bisnowaty in the draft who didn't make the 53 man squad.
It is going to be a long season watching our offense again struggle like last year.
We are wasting Eli's final years as the Giant QB with one of the worst OL's in the NFL.
JR should be fired for ignoring the Giant's major weakness last year, the OL.
It must be easy for other team's DC to game plan our current offense.
Get ready for a long season!!!
Yep! I'm reminded of the year or two Arnsbarger (sp) was here in the mid-70s. He actually put together the nucleus of a good defense, but the o-line was bad, and the general offensive skill players just as bad...
...and the ghost of that 70s offense descended onto the Dallas playing field last night.
Odell's new contract is going to be very expensive. Possibly looking for money that will make him the highest paid WR in history. Doing that not only weakens what we have right now, but leaves little room to sign quality free agent O-linemen. I don't think we have a lot of high paid guys on the offense other than Eli. We are not going to find a new QB (Nor are we looking either) before Odell's new contract.
So, will the money have to come from the defensive side of the ball? If so, this team is going to get worse before it gets better.
We all get old at some point in life. I just don’t think he can process information at a high level anymore.
Yall pray for me! I sit directly beside two diehard cowboy fans at work.
Odell's new contract is going to be very expensive. Possibly looking for money that will make him the highest paid WR in history. Doing that not only weakens what we have right now, but leaves little room to sign quality free agent O-linemen. I don't think we have a lot of high paid guys on the offense other than Eli. We are not going to find a new QB (Nor are we looking either) before Odell's new contract.
So, will the money have to come from the defensive side of the ball? If so, this team is going to get worse before it gets better.
we just drafted a QB
I thought he did a fairly decent job of staying as clean as possibly could have by stepping up, around, etc. when there was pressure.
The problem isn't his immobility. It's that he's become accustomed, over the past few years, to feeling more pressure, thus throwing some balls away, and at times hurrying them to the point of some bad balls like we saw last night (a few directed at Marshall).
If he isn't harried, he completes that ball to Marshall on the left, in the fourth, and the drive continues, and then you never know, at 16-3. Instead, the INT happens, trying to thread a needle, and it goes to 19-3 with less time remaining.
You can't place it on Eli's immobility. String theory, folks ... everything is connected and has an affect on everything else.
we just drafted a QB
Webb is a backup QB... that is what they drafted.
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we just drafted a QB
Webb is a backup QB... that is what they drafted.
And also without a lot of mobility.
Other quarterbacks could perform better with this offensive line, particularly more mobile QBs. But no QB is making the offense hum. The line is absolute dogshit and gets our QB killed if he doesn't release the ball immediately.
What I am going to say is not ground breaking. When the defense is coming at your QB like we saw last night, you have to run more screens. We still do a lousy job of designing, executing and calling enough of those to provide relief for Eli. If you can do that effectively, it buys you some time on plays where you are not running a screen. Since we barely do it enough, defenses are not trying to defend against it.
I guess it was collinsworth who said that, last year, 90% of our offensive plays were ran in the same set/formation.
did anyone else hear that?
I guess it was collinsworth who said that, last year, 90% of our offensive plays were ran in the same set/formation.
did anyone else hear that?
While the comment may have been made last night, what does it have to do with last night's game?
Also, welcome to BBI. That's a topic that's been discussed for months, and I'm probably underplaying that time frame.
Jittery is a word I have used for over 2 seasons now. Eli sees pressure and becomes a rookie quarterback all over again. Even when he can effectively step up or roll out or dump off, Eli because either wholly inaccurate, he quits his reads and goes to his option, or he becomes a fumble/turnover machine.
Other quarterbacks could perform better with this offensive line, particularly more mobile QBs. But no QB is making the offense hum. The line is absolute dogshit and gets our QB killed if he doesn't release the ball immediately.
noone is clamoring for Geno. I simply said that he couldve been a spark. he couldve, at the least, ran for a couple first downs
I hate to think that way but I agree with this post. Can't think of another QB in the league as immobile as Eli, and certainly can't think of an OL that would be able to protect him (first inclination would be Dallas, but even Dak had to move around a fair bit last night).
Might be the game has passed him by.
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another alarming thing from last night….
I guess it was collinsworth who said that, last year, 90% of our offensive plays were ran in the same set/formation.
did anyone else hear that?
While the comment may have been made last night, what does it have to do with last night's game?
Also, welcome to BBI. That's a topic that's been discussed for months, and I'm probably underplaying that time frame.
well, we only had 45 yards in the first half. and didnt get things moving until we switched it up on offense with formations and such, i'd say it's very relevant to last nights game
Odell's new contract is going to be very expensive. Possibly looking for money that will make him the highest paid WR in history. Doing that not only weakens what we have right now, but leaves little room to sign quality free agent O-linemen. I don't think we have a lot of high paid guys on the offense other than Eli. We are not going to find a new QB (Nor are we looking either) before Odell's new contract.
So, will the money have to come from the defensive side of the ball? If so, this team is going to get worse before it gets better.
Maybe the money has to come out of Eli!
Eli is checking down because he doesn't have time to scan.
The running game was pathetic last night.
I agree with Blake...even a mobile QB would have struggled/stalled because this offense is poorly designed right now.
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OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.
I hate to think that way but I agree with this post. Can't think of another QB in the league as immobile as Eli, and certainly can't think of an OL that would be able to protect him (first inclination would be Dallas, but even Dak had to move around a fair bit last night).
Might be the game has passed him by.
Brady, Palmer, and Ryan come to mind. Phillip Rivers too.
And, you saw Wilson struggle with lack of an OL and running game yesterday on the road.
Eli is checking down because he doesn't have time to scan.
The running game was pathetic last night.
I agree with Blake...even a mobile QB would have struggled/stalled because this offense is poorly designed right now.
I didn't see 2 running plays in a row in the first half. Hard to say the run game was pathetic when we didn't even see it. In fact, there were some positive gains in the 14 plays from scrimmage (or whatever the number was) we had last night.
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but you have to give your QB a chance to go thru progressions.
Eli is checking down because he doesn't have time to scan.
The running game was pathetic last night.
I agree with Blake...even a mobile QB would have struggled/stalled because this offense is poorly designed right now.
I didn't see 2 running plays in a row in the first half. Hard to say the run game was pathetic when we didn't even see it. In fact, there were some positive gains in the 14 plays from scrimmage (or whatever the number was) we had last night.
It's pathetic when you run for that amount of yardage in a football game, maybe I should put it that way!!!!! Game plan or performance.
What are you calling a positive play, more than 2 yards, but under four? We averaged 2.9 yards.
Darwka had the only good run, for about 11 yards.
All that you say is true.
But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.
Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.
Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.
Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.
This. If you watch all the games on Sunday you see that OL issues are not unique to the Giants, the play on the line across the league is a problem. At some point you have to wonder, or even accept, that the biggest problem on the offense may be the obvious one. I'm hopeful we get a lot things cleaned up, but we need to stop pointing fingers at everything but the QB because it's a position that didn't help us last year and didn't help us last night. Eli needs to be better.
If we want to talk about someone getting old, I'm afraid it was Brandon Marshall. It is only one game, but with Odell out, he needed to step up. I've seen many blame Eli for missing BM all alone in the flat, but to me, that was all on Marshall. Eli was (once again!) running for his life, and Marshall didn't have a defender within 20 yards of him. He should have sat down and established a target, but even after the ball was thrown, he was still moving towards the LOS. Where the hell was he going?
Eli didn't play well, but he had little help. The INT was a mistake, he once again allowed himself to be duped by a DB faking a zone coverage, but what really irked me was inside the red zone on the FG drive. He had Marshall one-on-one with a smaller CB, but didn't go to him. That's why we got Marshall, to use his size on the end zone. He has to take a shot there.
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In comment 13593353 Dave on the UWS said:
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OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.
I hate to think that way but I agree with this post. Can't think of another QB in the league as immobile as Eli, and certainly can't think of an OL that would be able to protect him (first inclination would be Dallas, but even Dak had to move around a fair bit last night).
Might be the game has passed him by.
Brady, Palmer, and Ryan come to mind. Phillip Rivers too.
And, you saw Wilson struggle with lack of an OL and running game yesterday on the road.
Three of those guys are more mobile than Eli - and Palmer, the lone exception, looked pretty bad yesterday too and has been inconsistent for awhile.
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fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.
All that you say is true.
But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.
Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.
Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.
Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.
But here's the thing. You know what Eli is....it's the organization's job to build around that. Additionally, you drafted a guy who isn't that mobile either from what I read.
Hate to say it, but it's almost like you're setting him up for failure..............or hoping you catch lightening in a bottle and the OL suddenly "clicks".
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In comment 13593398 jcn56 said:
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In comment 13593353 Dave on the UWS said:
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OL play around the league yesterday was HORRID. I'm afraid the biggest problem is our QB is 36 and may be done. "Dirty" pockets are the norm moving around in them to make a play is necessary. Eli doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. That's a very BIG problem. They may have a very tough decision to make after this season.
I hate to think that way but I agree with this post. Can't think of another QB in the league as immobile as Eli, and certainly can't think of an OL that would be able to protect him (first inclination would be Dallas, but even Dak had to move around a fair bit last night).
Might be the game has passed him by.
Brady, Palmer, and Ryan come to mind. Phillip Rivers too.
And, you saw Wilson struggle with lack of an OL and running game yesterday on the road.
Three of those guys are more mobile than Eli - and Palmer, the lone exception, looked pretty bad yesterday too and has been inconsistent for awhile.
LOL...more mobile, but how much? Cmon...they are all pocket passers. I'll give you Ryan because he's still younger and can move a bit better.
It's not a given he plays well at 36. Most players are done long before that. To me he reminds me of Bledsoe at the end, Favre, Peyton, and all the other great QBs who were finished.
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In comment 13593542 PatersonPlank said:
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fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.
All that you say is true.
But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.
Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.
Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.
Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.
But here's the thing. You know what Eli is....it's the organization's job to build around that. Additionally, you drafted a guy who isn't that mobile either from what I read.
Hate to say it, but it's almost like you're setting him up for failure..............or hoping you catch lightening in a bottle and the OL suddenly "clicks".
Again... all that you say is true. And Jerry Reese is the one who failed to protect the crown jewel of this team with a functional offensive line. Now the jewel is tarnished and aging right before our eyes.
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In comment 13593542 PatersonPlank said:
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fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.
All that you say is true.
But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.
Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.
Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.
Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.
But here's the thing. You know what Eli is....it's the organization's job to build around that. Additionally, you drafted a guy who isn't that mobile either from what I read.
Hate to say it, but it's almost like you're setting him up for failure..............or hoping you catch lightening in a bottle and the OL suddenly "clicks".
You're paying Eli 24m/yr, he has a stud defense and weapons all over the place (even without OBJ). Where are we getting the resources to get him more? He's not playing up to his price tag, probably the only spot on the team that is underperforming it's cap value, we need to stop making excuses for him.
Look at some of those play calls and routes last night........it's no where near imaginative offensive football.
Does the OL limit it? Probably.
The first drive of the second half, the protection was better and you saw the result. But it wasn't sustainable.
Assuming no dreadful injuries and that OBJ comes back Eli will have bright spots along with plenty of horrible play. That's him. At his age, with this OL, probably fewer bright spots than before (which isn't good since his crap to great ratio was always high for a top third NFL QB). But who knows - his greatest asset is his smarts and his uncanny ability to play far better at key times than his mean level of play. He's like John Daly. Don't count him out or assume the suckitude of last night will continue.
Now, I see him anticipating pressure. He isn't countering it when it comes and he's not capitalizing on the opportunities when it doesn't.
Well played, Sir!
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In comment 13593633 M.S. said:
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In comment 13593542 PatersonPlank said:
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fairly well. I don't think any QB could function with the right side of that line. Did you see Brady Thursday night, he hit 45% of his passes? Our OL sucks. Dallas rushes 4 players and still gets lots of pressure. Now they have 7 players back against our 3 or 4. No QB can function.
All that you say is true.
But Eli has become a transformed QB... and not for the better. He looks like an aging vet with little confidence and it certainly looks like he inspires little if any confidence in his team mates as well.
Right now, it's not about the "Good" Eli or "Bad" Eli... but the "Low Energy" Eli who can't lift the overall performance of his team mates.
Watch Carson Wentz highlights from yesterday and you'll see what I'm talking about. His pocket got very ugly yesterday and he turned in an inspiring performance.
Can Eli inspire anyone anymore? Not at his current voltage. Philly has got a brand, spanking new battery in its car (and so does Dallas). Our battery is past its warranty.
But here's the thing. You know what Eli is....it's the organization's job to build around that. Additionally, you drafted a guy who isn't that mobile either from what I read.
Hate to say it, but it's almost like you're setting him up for failure..............or hoping you catch lightening in a bottle and the OL suddenly "clicks".
You're paying Eli 24m/yr, he has a stud defense and weapons all over the place (even without OBJ). Where are we getting the resources to get him more? He's not playing up to his price tag, probably the only spot on the team that is underperforming it's cap value, we need to stop making excuses for him.
I'm afraid you're dead-on when you say Eli is not playing up to his contract numbers. Unfortunately, too much of his pay is based on his past glory. Not his current performance.
I still have faith in Eli... but we're all being treated to a very ugly scenario with this offense and the leader of this offense.
I guess it was collinsworth who said that, last year, 90% of our offensive plays were ran in the same set/formation.
did anyone else hear that?
Yes, he was right, 11 personnel group. 1 TE, and 1 RB.
They are going to use more formations this year.