John Jerry & Bobby Hart

and while we are on the subject so is our worthless oline coach. I understand that the talent he has to work with is not good but still his blocking schemes are terrible

They are bad, but you only have to go back a few years to see even worse.

FWIW, it is not uncommon for a unit to come out shaky the first few weeks (see 2007 Defense for reference).

They've got to get it together though. To me, Jerry is the one who keeps jumping off the screen as a fuckup. Too many plays seem to blow up at his point of attack.

And as has been said many times here, Paul Perkins is not a #1 back.

and a few other's too dim in my memory to be mentioned

over Jerry

to blame the O-Line on here. There are O-Lines just as bad out there and those teams score more than 3 points.

for an entire game and both will start next week and both will be defended by their brainless coach.

Not sure Jerry or Hart could even make another NFL roster.

most others, I would bench Jerry for Jones. I'd also watch Hart closely for continued struggles, and possibly replace him with Wheeler.

position after starting the Jets game?

They lost every battle on every snap
averagejoe : 9:08 am : link : reply
for an entire game and both will start next week and both will be defended by their brainless coach.

Not sure Jerry or Hart could even make another NFL roster.


Just like all the Giant cuts from last season that are not starting elsewhere...is there even one? No....

I get it, he has some flaws, but Jerry's redeeming quality is supposed to be that he is excellent in pass protection and continuity with the line, but contrarily we've been observing annual regressions.

McAdoo has no accountability for these guys. They couldn't get the job done a year ago but handed them all their spots with zero competition and every time he gets asked about it he makes excuses saying it is not all on them. Will it ever be on them, Ben???

Fluker at least brings something to the table in the running game, something this offense desperately needs.

I pull Jerry and Perkis and insert Fluker and Darkwa and give ourselves half a chance to run the ball.

In comment 13593520 averagejoe said:

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for an entire game and both will start next week and both will be defended by their brainless coach. Not sure Jerry or Hart could even make another NFL roster.

Then you adjust. You certainly dont just stand there and throw the ball away. How about something quick? How about screens? How about a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 3 instead of a 2 yard pass?

Who were the alternatives to pick up that we could afford or who was the amazing lineman we could have drafted as the class was not very Oline heavy?

When you made the change in the third preseason game and everything starts to click. Time to make the change.

who for some reason refuses to replace Jerry. I can only guess that Jerry is rotating Mac's socks or has compromising pictures of him.

In comment 13593512 gidiefor said:

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and a few other's too dim in my memory to be mentioned

Im thinking back to the Bishop, Gragg, Oben era. Those guys were terrible.

Just wait until these pukes play top pass rushers. It makes you wish Tam Hopkins and Ian Allen were on the right side.

How does he escape some of the criticism? He is not a good run blocker and he is a smallish center who can be bull rushed. I know that he grades out as our 2nd best lineman, but isn't that more a comment on the other 3 than the fact that he is playing at a high level.

He has ten times as much to work with as TC and every year the offense gets worse.

In comment 13593534 BigBlueDownTheShore said:

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Who were the alternatives to pick up that we could afford or who was the amazing lineman we could have drafted as the class was not very Oline heavy?

Whitworth. Kick flowers to RG or RT.

Honestly changes were mandatory for this line. They've had enough time over the past few seasons to prove they are bad. And last night showed more of the same. Does anyone expect them to all of a sudden start playing well??

They have issues with stunts and this has been going on since last year. To think they practice against one of the best fronts in the league and they can get this scheme down.

Lets also understand that as good as Eli's stats were his 1st 2 years in McAdoo's offense, his championship years came with a power running game and play action offense. Eli did all he could do to extend plays and avoid the pass rush but if the timing is disrupted at all he has no time to get to his 3rd or fourth option on straight drop plays.

Part of the issue is talent, part of the issue is scheme. Take note on the first drive of the 3rd quarter. Lots of play fakes, screens. misdirection. These things help both the QB and OL.

Go to 11 personnel and Eli gets rushed and we go backwards.

However the coaching has got to take some share of the blame. How much I don't know enough to grade coaching. But when performance is this bad coaching from position level, to coordinator to HC has plenty of fault. Solari I believe is "o" line coach in his second year. How good is he, has he progressed , can he integrate his line into the offense and what our RB's can do, and especially with Eli strengths?

Someone needs to review and take action not just the players grades, but the coaching cohesiveness with who we have as players and their abilities to produce an offense that can be coordinated, develop a style and rhythm and win games. Otherwise turn out the lights the party is over
.

Shouldn't be playing. Put in fluckerand jones

Put Fluker in. Can it be much worse? At least we might be able to generate a running game.

Maybe his balls will drop in the next 3 years.

at rg.

Pugh and Richburg get a pass here? Jones should definitely start over Jerry. Not sure what else can be done. Pugh back to tackle where he WAS better.

Do? We all love Engram but this team is devoid of talent and depth along the OL. The bullshit that there wasn't an OL worth it at that spot is just as
Much a Guess as is that a Engram will be a stud. We needed OL talent and wheeler may be a find but he's a year away. Reese got a pass for his D rebuild. Now the OL needs the same

I know there was no easy fixes this offseason. But to do nothing and bring back the same unit is unacceptable. I know the free agent options were expensive, but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and address a glaring weakness.

Shpuld have signed Whitworth or Lang. Should have drafted an O lineman in the first 3 rounds. Could have been more aggressive in pursuing trades. Bringing back the same unit sends the wrong message and could torpedo this season.

Cue the Joe Thomas and Joe Staley rumors....

I don't think Jerry and Hart are any great shakes. And Jerry's inconsistency was enough to earn him a spot on the bench for a week, IMO.

...but...

If you're looking at these guys and comparing them to the line from 2007-2010 - I would suggest you start watching some more football on gameday.

Offensive line play sucks around the league. Not bad, not mediocre - sucks. PFF said that Hart was good enough for 16th tackle. They said Jerry was even better. Ironically, they gave Flowers a lower grade than both (I thought he had a better game than they did, but that's besides the point).

The line played a thoroughly average game when you compare it to the action around the rest of the league.

So why was the output so bad? Simple - because the playcalling was no great shakes, and Eli left a bunch of plays on the field.

Would better OL play have resulted in a better offense? Without a doubt. But compared to what's out there today, they performed well enough for these guys to put up some points.

He didn't even get a uniform last night. The guy is not coming in and making a difference.

This team is in very big trouble because once again Reese failed to fix this o-line.

has been together for a few years now, too. Even with continuity, they still look like shit.

Jerry and Hart are trash.

In comment 13594009 Dave in Hoboken said:

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has been together for a few years now, too. Even with continuity, they still look like shit. Jerry and Hart are trash.

Exactl and what I was referencing above. The jury is out on this unit. All the evidence is there that they are a bad group. They needed to be blown up and a minimum of 2 new starters brought it. Instead they did nothing and hoped they get better.

Jerry and hart to the bench, give me from left to right: Pugh,Jones,richburg,fluker,flowers.

give me darkwa behind a fullback, and a blocking te. run with some power, give me some play action, if we are gonna play low scoring games control the ball and eat clock. support our deffensive efforts.

Just an example of why PFF is garbage!

How can you allow two sacks, be a non factor in the run game and get a 73 rating? I'm not saying it's all Jerry's fault, but what are you going to beleive? Your eyes, or this rating system that tries to assess players without even knowing what those players are required to do on a given play.
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find it hard to believe there were no training camp final cuts we could have picked up significantly better than Bobby Hart. He looked like a boy among men.

the stunt.

Just not a smart enough athlete.

But, Giants seem to like him. I don't.

In comment 13593975 jcn56 said:

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I don't think Jerry and Hart are any great shakes. And Jerry's inconsistency was enough to earn him a spot on the bench for a week, IMO. Offensive line play sucks around the league. Not bad, not mediocre - sucks. PFF said that Hart was good enough for 16th tackle. They said Jerry was even better. Ironically, they gave Flowers a lower grade than both (I thought he had a better game than they did, but that's besides the point).

I have to agree. I watched some games yesterday and there are there are just not enough high quality athletes playing Oline in the NFL right now. What Dallas has is really special (although Collins seemed to be allowed to tackle JPP on every play and only be called once....).