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An assessment of last night and how I feel this morning.

Tim in Eternal Blue : 9/11/2017 11:12 am
Good morning boys. Tough loss last night.

A few of my thoughts from last night:

The right side of the line is absolutely abysmal. Is it me or does John Jerry look small? He was getting pushed around like a freshman playing against Varsity. We knew the O-Line sucked though.

I don't see any burst or vision from Paul Perkins. Orleans Darkwa isn't a good player but he looks better than PP.

Eli looks absolutely terrified when he is under center and has to drop back to pass. I'm terrified right along with him.

This game looked alot like the 2nd Dallas game from last year. The defense was playing as well as they could under the circumstances. Yes they allowed some long drives but they were holding them to FGs. They were exhausted.

BJ Goodson is a beast and he will only get better.

Jenkins is a top 3 corner.

How I feel going forward: When McAdoo was hired, TC said he and McAdoo essentially created a new offense from scratch. A mixture of McAdoo's experience in GB and TC offense philosophy. We saw that offense turn into a top 10 squad in 2014-15. What changed? TC gets fired (because the defense was garbage) and some time management fallacies. So TC was fired and Macadoo was promoted (because they didn't want to change the offense). Why would they? The offense was the only bright spot on the 14-15 Giants.

So what changed? The Giants didn't have a great O-Line in 14-15. We also didn't have a good running game either.

It feels like McAdoo just decided to scratch any input TC had on the offense and do his own thing. He also only answers to himself. I'm sure during the game in 14-15 TC would have McAdoo adjust his game plan if the offense wasn't performing. IDK... That's all I can think of as to why the offense all of a sudden is absolutely atrocious. That and the unfortunate decline of Eli.

I don't understand how Reese thought that John Jerry and Bobby Hart were the answer on this line. He spent (good) money on the defense and it paid off... But did absolutely zero this off-season on the biggest flaw this team has had. Bobby Hart and Jerry aren't good enough to be backups, let alone starters.

It's a long season and this was only game one. Half of this forum think that our 11-5 record means this team was good last year. No. It means we had a top 5 defense and we got lucky more than we did in 15 with Coughlin.

On paper with the additions of Marshall and Engram, this team looked poise to make a run. We won't make a run without a change in play calling and possibly making a trade for a competent offensive lineman.

Until then... Let Eli operate out of the shotgun 95% of time (like Peyton did) and maybe let Eli call plays at the line.

Something has to change.

I'm optimistic about our defense and I feel like with some small changes on offense, they can get it together.

That's all I got. Maybe they will destroy Detroit and all fears will be alleviated.
Agreed.  
Britt in VA : 9/11/2017 11:14 am : link
.
Yep.  
Beezer : 9/11/2017 11:19 am : link
Agreed here, as well.
Please point out what McAdoo removed that TC had apparently  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 11:20 am : link
caused him to put in?
Re Detroit  
lugnut : 9/11/2017 11:20 am : link
They were complete garbage the first three quarters y'day. Then something snapped and they pulled that W out of their...Stafford shouldn't scare us. Two of their TDs were to a rookie WR -- doubt that happens against Jackrabbit and DRC. We're at home...If we don't win that one, even w/o OBJ, yeah, then we can be worried.
I was never a McAdoo supporter  
superspynyg : 9/11/2017 11:21 am : link
like others here. I just do not think he is a good head coach or his offense is any good.

Last season the Packers had as bad an oline as we did but they put points on the board each game and if they had our def last season they would have been in the superbowl.

this quote hit the nail on peverbial head  
micky : 9/11/2017 11:22 am : link
Quote:
Half of this forum think that our 11-5 record means this team was good last year. No. It means we had a top 5 defense and we got lucky more than we did in 15 with Coughlin. 
You guys are a riot - you're Redskin fans  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 11:23 am : link
without the stupid fight song.

Knee jerk complaints absent any kind of analysis, all you're missing is names like 'Crygirls' and you're set.
I am not given to hyperbole....but if John Jerry starts Monday  
GiantBlue : 9/11/2017 11:24 am : link
then McAdoo & Reese deserve to be on the next train out of town. I keep hearing that they know more than the fans and they see things at practice we don't see. But guess what....I saw enough to know this guy is as bad a lineman as I have ever seen. He has no push, no grit....he is just a marshmallow.

Until this OL and TE group play with pure anger and aggression, it will be a season of this type of angst.
I have an assessment  
bigbluewreckingcrew25 : 9/11/2017 11:27 am : link
Ben McAdoo is a talentless fat slob
I don't care who we're playing.  
BigBlueWhale : 9/11/2017 11:30 am : link
I said the same thing last year: we will get manhandled by any professional defense we play against. Alabama's D would dominate us, I am 100% sure of that. Every D we play dating back to last year looks like the '85 Bears.

I don't care who we play - 49ers, Browns, Jets - our O won't score, and therefore the game will be a nail-biter. The D will lose their morale if they haven't already. Can't win if you don't score, and we've proven we can't score.
The Lions D will  
BigBlueWhale : 9/11/2017 11:30 am : link
eat us alive next week, book it. Odell or not.
The offensive mindset  
Dankbeerman : 9/11/2017 11:35 am : link
needs a change, they seem to play for 3 yards each play. Why do we run so many ineffective screens? they are so deliberate. Also if you want the "west coast" style you need to run more slants and crossing patterns that dont stop. Everything is a short pattern to a reciver who stops in a spot or a screen a 5 year old can diagnose. There is no quick attack and no surprises and no physical play to win straight up battles.



As I said in the "ESPN says we're going to be good"  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/11/2017 11:51 am : link
thread, this team beat two teams with winning records last year, Detroit and Dallas. The Dallas wins were important, but one came in the first game for a rookie QB and RB, and in the second they somehow scored 10 points and won. The less said about letting Detroit hang around while they were in the midst of their yearly collapse, the better.

If this offense plays the same as last year, they will not get to the playoffs, not with this schedule. On the first offensive series, the dynamic duo of Jerry and Hart got beat on a stunt they should have first seen in Pop Warner. And then it went downhill from there! The Cowboys defense is not that good. If the Broncos had a decent QB, I'd say watch them blow the Cowboys out. The question is, is the Giants offense this bad?
As I said on the post game thread last night  
Stu11 : 9/11/2017 11:59 am : link
there is no reason to evaluate the offensive performance without OBJ. He is the offense. The Line is what it is. We will need to run quick routes and when there is no one to stretch the defense like last night why does the defense even have to worry about anything longer than 15-20 yds? or give any cushion at all on a slant? We have a winning defense, and when OBJ is in there combined with getting comfortable with the new pieces such as Marshall and Engram we'll win our share of games.
RE: I am not given to hyperbole....but if John Jerry starts Monday  
Simms11 : 9/11/2017 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13593948 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
then McAdoo & Reese deserve to be on the next train out of town. I keep hearing that they know more than the fans and they see things at practice we don't see. But guess what....I saw enough to know this guy is as bad a lineman as I have ever seen. He has no push, no grit....he is just a marshmallow.

Until this OL and TE group play with pure anger and aggression, it will be a season of this type of angst.


I'm in agreement, but guess what? Jerry will most likely be starting again next week. If there are any changes, they may be subtle, like playing more Darkwa early in the game and having Perkins supplement his carries.
Bottom Line Boys  
Rjanyg : 9/11/2017 12:23 pm : link
If you can run the rock you can do just about anything. We don't run the ball well. Call it scheme, call it play calling, call it personnel.....we don't run the rock well.

The addition of Rhett Ellison, Evan Engram, DJ Fluker, Sean Smith and Wayne Gallman is the only difference on the roster to trying to improve our run game from last year. Fluker and Gallman were inactive. Ellison wasn't on the field much and Smith and Engram are rookies.

Our scheme is built on quick passes, screens and timing routes. Without OBJ the scheme seemed out of sync.

The play calling improved in the 3rd quarter, McAdoo had more play action and misdirection and it kept Dallas off balance, Eli had more time and the execution improved. Then we get in the redzone and go 3 WR again, even with an improved TE in Ellison and Engram and a redzone threat in Marshall, we go 3 Wide!!! There are some fundamental issues in all 3 areas: personnel, scheme and play calling.

We need to commit to the run first. Get your best run blocking line out there, keep Ellison on the field and use Engram more as an H back. Play action pass when passing. Don't put 5 people in routes all the time.

The first move has to be to get Jerry to the bench and replace him with Jones or Fluker. If its Jones then activate Fluker and have him ready to take over for Hart if he struggles.
The problem with making it all about our inability to run is  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/11/2017 12:50 pm : link
the Giants won the 2011 Super Bowl with the worst rushing offense in football (dead last in yards and yards per carry). Yet, our passing offense was dynamic.

I thought we added Engram to avoid the kind of horseshit we saw last year when we never attacked the deep middle of the field. Instead, Engram had 13 yards receiving on 3 catches outside of his play on the sideline. We're completing 2 yard passes on 3rd and 4. BTW, that play is the one that will truly be the one I remember from this game. I know the OL stinks and part of the problem is Eli is hearing footsteps, but we don't take any chances down the field and we seem incapable of designing/completing short passes to extend drives. I'm REALLY disappointed in McAdoo and this offense.

I agree strongly with everything else the OP says.
RE: The problem with making it all about our inability to run is  
Rjanyg : 9/11/2017 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13594210 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
the Giants won the 2011 Super Bowl with the worst rushing offense in football (dead last in yards and yards per carry). Yet, our passing offense was dynamic.

I thought we added Engram to avoid the kind of horseshit we saw last year when we never attacked the deep middle of the field. Instead, Engram had 13 yards receiving on 3 catches outside of his play on the sideline. We're completing 2 yard passes on 3rd and 4. BTW, that play is the one that will truly be the one I remember from this game. I know the OL stinks and part of the problem is Eli is hearing footsteps, but we don't take any chances down the field and we seem incapable of designing/completing short passes to extend drives. I'm REALLY disappointed in McAdoo and this offense.

I agree strongly with everything else the OP says.


It is not just the ability to run the commitment to the run. Teams need to respect the run which they don't when the play us. They can keep only 7 guys in the box and still stop the run. It needs to be understood that running the ball is about execution and attitude. We are in 11 personnel at the 5 yard line....what the hell is that? Should be 2 TE and a FB with Darkwa and Marshall. It changes the personnel for the other team and adds uncertainty to show a run look.

We tried to run the ball in 2011, it set up the pass and kept defenses honest. Defenses don't need to change personnel when we have the pass run option if we go pro set or 11 personnel because we suck just enough they can stay with the same defense.

It isn't all on Reese  
KWALL2 : 9/11/2017 1:17 pm : link
Quote:
I don't understand how Reese thought that John Jerry and Bobby Hart were the answer on this line.


You can't understand it unless you know what kind of feedback he's getting from the HC, OC, OL coach and the scouts. Why is it all on him? How did the coaches/scouts evaluate the OL?
This Defense will be riddled with injuries  
Bluesbreaker : 9/11/2017 6:18 pm : link
At this pace Snacks was a fucking warrior out the I couldn't
count the number of double sometime triple teams out there
he was absolutely exhausted .
45 snaps for the defense in the 1st half my God they barely saw the field in pre season .
Great Debut by my boy Goodson he was laying some wood too .
Thompson and Apple P fucking U .
Collins was barely a factor Jack Rabbit did a number on Dez till they finally had to call a bogus PI that lead to the TD. We will be 0-3 quicker than shit !
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