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My comment on Sunday night

Jim in NH : 9/11/2017 1:39 pm
I watched my first game in 1956, when I was six years old.

I remember Y.A., Allie Sherman, and Marty Glickman. I have, to some degree, seen it all.

I've followed the discussions here with interest, and the predictions for a successful season.

My comment is:

The emperor has no clothes.
Giants success  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 9/11/2017 1:45 pm : link
Whenever the prognosticators expect the Giant to be a dominant team, the G men fall far short of the mark. The only exception to that was the 1986 season right after their 21-0 blowout in Chicago the year before. Of course, the early '60's was a different story, too, but that seems like a century ago.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/11/2017 1:46 pm : link
McAdoo/Sullivan are running out of excuses.
I hear you Jim  
Giants86 : 9/11/2017 1:50 pm : link
Seems that way.
RE: ...  
NNJ Tom : 9/11/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13594339 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
McAdoo/Sullivan are running out of excuses.


Add Reese to that list.
The emperor has no clothes  
jeff57 : 9/11/2017 1:54 pm : link

Mac seems to be better  
Dave on the UWS : 9/11/2017 1:59 pm : link
as a head coach than an offense guru. They may need to force an OC and philosophy on him if this season crashes and burns
RE: ...  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/11/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13594339 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
McAdoo/Sullivan are running out of excuses.


Reese as well. They didn't draft a single OL until round 6 and he was cut. Wheeler may be ready next year but nomOL help this year after fielding a shitty group last year. add to that the things the team sucked at least year were on full display last night. MCAdoo needs to at least try and scheme around what they dont do well.

Killed on TOP and no running game. That's on Reese and McAdoo more than Sullivan who IMO does what he's told. He's a soldier. Not a general.



LauderdaleMatty  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/11/2017 2:16 pm : link
This team has enough offensive talent to score more than three points against Dallas.

We were out-coached badly on Sunday night.
RE: Giants success  
x meadowlander : 9/11/2017 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13594333 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
Whenever the prognosticators expect the Giant to be a dominant team, the G men fall far short of the mark. The only exception to that was the 1986 season right after their 21-0 blowout in Chicago the year before. Of course, the early '60's was a different story, too, but that seems like a century ago.
86' didn't exactly 'dominate' - lost their opener at Dallas, and MANY of those wins were close - only late in the season did they really open it up. Got smoking hot the month before the playoffs and destroyed all in their path to the Lombardi.
LauderdaleMatty  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/11/2017 2:19 pm : link
And that doesn't excuse the lack of attention on the OL... I talked about it as far back as the offseason podcasts that the Giants were taking a big risk on the OL and doubling down.

But you have Manning, Engram, Shepard, Marshall, Vereen, Ellison... you score more than 3 points. Especially against that defense.

The Dallas coaches have our offense figured out. They shut us out year in the Meadowlands too except for that one spectacular play by Beckham.
RE: LauderdaleMatty  
hitdog42 : 9/11/2017 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13594425 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
This team has enough offensive talent to score more than three points against Dallas.

We were out-coached badly on Sunday night.


Reese is not the one under utilizing tight ends. reese is not the one deciding to give limited help to the OL Chipping guys. Reese is not the one running play action against teams that dont fear the run to begin with. Reese is not the one deciding not to use Marshall's size against a young DB. He is not the one calling the same sh$t over and over... predictable nonsense... and he is certainly not the one blaming technique and communication... the hallmark of someone being fking stubborn.
Reese Reese - piss poor preparation  
bronxgiant : 9/11/2017 2:34 pm : link
will alwas get you a loss.
The definition of insanity is:  
Simms11 : 9/11/2017 2:38 pm : link
doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results!!

Mac and Suillivan need to, not only, game-plan better, but adjust the offense so that they can be successful against perceived weaknesses of the Defense they are playing.
RE: RE: LauderdaleMatty  
Rjanyg : 9/11/2017 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13594442 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
In comment 13594425 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


This team has enough offensive talent to score more than three points against Dallas.

We were out-coached badly on Sunday night.



Reese is not the one under utilizing tight ends. reese is not the one deciding to give limited help to the OL Chipping guys. Reese is not the one running play action against teams that dont fear the run to begin with. Reese is not the one deciding not to use Marshall's size against a young DB. He is not the one calling the same sh$t over and over... predictable nonsense... and he is certainly not the one blaming technique and communication... the hallmark of someone being fking stubborn.


So what do you think they should do? I want more power running with a play action offense, that would suite Eli and our TE but we can't run the ball very well. Our Right side OL is far below average.

The first drive of the 3rd quarter was creative but everything else looked rushed and out of sync.
Little things that happen during a game also affect the course of it.  
jsuds : 9/11/2017 2:51 pm : link
The initial Dallas drive was NOT a first down though the ref's awarded it. That deflated the D and led to a Dallas FG.
Had it been a three and out momentum could have been a factor for the Giants. It never was. Then on the ensuing drive on third down Eli is sacked and CLEARLY hit in the head by the defender with BOTH HANDS. No call by the refs and had it been called Giants would get field position and who knows maybe they drive it down and score. Then the gift TD that came the play after the non-PI further deflates the D. Little things that went against the team certainly contributed to the poor performance. IT just was not in the cards for them last night. There is still time to correct things though.
RE: LauderdaleMatty  
NYDCBlue : 9/11/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13594425 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
This team has enough offensive talent to score more than three points against Dallas.

We were out-coached badly on Sunday night.


Do they? What if Marshall is V. Cruz part two? And HART! How many worse D lines will we face this year? I am shuddering.... Not that Jerry was much more than slightly better than Hart, which is still TERRIBLE! Does Sheppard have the speed to ever take the top off a defense? He looks like captain check down so far.... I will cut Perkins some slack because he is still learning, but Darkwa looks both faster and stronger.... My hope is Perkins will speed up his on field play once he is comfortable in the system. Also, the QB plays like he has been coached to avoid mistakes, rather than make plays. Problems, he still makes mistakes from time to time.

Who is left? Would I be too petty if I said I am glad we have a FB this year, but Smith doesn't inspire confidence either with his constant whiffs...?
RE: RE: RE: LauderdaleMatty  
NYDCBlue : 9/11/2017 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13594471 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 13594442 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


In comment 13594425 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


This team has enough offensive talent to score more than three points against Dallas.

We were out-coached badly on Sunday night.



Reese is not the one under utilizing tight ends. reese is not the one deciding to give limited help to the OL Chipping guys. Reese is not the one running play action against teams that dont fear the run to begin with. Reese is not the one deciding not to use Marshall's size against a young DB. He is not the one calling the same sh$t over and over... predictable nonsense... and he is certainly not the one blaming technique and communication... the hallmark of someone being fking stubborn.



So what do you think they should do? I want more power running with a play action offense, that would suite Eli and our TE but we can't run the ball very well. Our Right side OL is far below average.

The first drive of the 3rd quarter was creative but everything else looked rushed and out of sync.


I would love to see the snap breakdown. In the preseason we finally looked competent on offense once injuries hit our WRs and we had to go heavy on O. How much did Smith play at all? How often were Ellison, Engram, and Smith on the field together? Do we really care about sitting any WR other than Beckham going forward? We suck at the position and there is no need to trot a guy out there if he won't help us win....

We HAVE to block better for the rum game. That will open up the pass.... Put more beef on the field!
RE: Little things that happen during a game also affect the course of it.  
Rjanyg : 9/11/2017 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13594480 jsuds said:
Quote:
The initial Dallas drive was NOT a first down though the ref's awarded it. That deflated the D and led to a Dallas FG.
Had it been a three and out momentum could have been a factor for the Giants. It never was. Then on the ensuing drive on third down Eli is sacked and CLEARLY hit in the head by the defender with BOTH HANDS. No call by the refs and had it been called Giants would get field position and who knows maybe they drive it down and score. Then the gift TD that came the play after the non-PI further deflates the D. Little things that went against the team certainly contributed to the poor performance. IT just was not in the cards for them last night. There is still time to correct things though.


Good points. I kept thinking that between those calls or non calls , Zeke playing and OBJ not, it was going to be a lot to overcome. The d played pretty well but we just didn't do enough to sustain any viable offensive production.

This quote  
bc0312 : 9/11/2017 3:41 pm : link
from "Why your team Sucks 2017" was in my head throughout the first half.


"I know that Cleveland and Buffalo and the like are far more woeful franchises. But I just want you to know that if you isolate the single worst quarter of play from a single team in any given season, that quarter of play will usually come from the New York Giants."
RE: ...  
Blue21 : 9/11/2017 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13594339 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
McAdoo/Sullivan are running out of excuses.



This!
RE: LauderdaleMatty  
Blue21 : 9/11/2017 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13594425 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
This team has enough offensive talent to score more than three points against Dallas.

We were out-coached badly on Sunday night.


This too. And running out of excuses for this Oline
RE: LauderdaleMatty  
jvm52106 : 9/11/2017 4:36 pm : link
In comment 13594425 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
This team has enough offensive talent to score more than three points against Dallas.

We were out-coached badly on Sunday night.


Maybe but when do we start saying Eli is a problem here. I know about time and all of that but man he missed a lot of throws or hit a few that were poorly placed thus the receiver was not able to maintain momentum.. I am getting tired of the Eli play and he needs to stop taking responsibility for shit and actually get better.
RE: Little things that happen during a game also affect the course of it.  
jvm52106 : 9/11/2017 4:37 pm : link
In comment 13594480 jsuds said:
Quote:
The initial Dallas drive was NOT a first down though the ref's awarded it. That deflated the D and led to a Dallas FG.
Had it been a three and out momentum could have been a factor for the Giants. It never was. Then on the ensuing drive on third down Eli is sacked and CLEARLY hit in the head by the defender with BOTH HANDS. No call by the refs and had it been called Giants would get field position and who knows maybe they drive it down and score. Then the gift TD that came the play after the non-PI further deflates the D. Little things that went against the team certainly contributed to the poor performance. IT just was not in the cards for them last night. There is still time to correct things though.


Dallas did not score on that first drive.
Something that bugs me here  
jvm52106 : 9/11/2017 4:42 pm : link
is why keep 4 TE's and a FB on the roster if you really are not changing the way you play. Yeah, we varied formations some but the play was still pretty basic and by no means did I see us go- Ok, we can';t pass block so let's tighten up the formations, go 2 TE's and 2 backs, or bring in an extra Olinemen, anything to try and wear down a thin dallas defense and rest our defense.

There is ZERO reason to have 4 TE's and a FB if you are not going to play a different game. Different groupings and formations is nothing of the plays still include our Oline pass block 5 - 7 step drops or shut gone plays.
grr  
jvm52106 : 9/11/2017 4:43 pm : link
Shotgun plays.
I thought it was poor tv coverage on a couple of the calls last night  
Doomster : 9/11/2017 4:44 pm : link
First, was the Dallas first first down...it didn't look like he made it, and the replay was terrible....

Then it looked like the Giants downed the ball at the goal line, and there never was a replay to show how close it was, or if indeed it was a touch back....

As for the PI that set up the gimme Whitten TD, that was absolutely bush...Freakin' Garrett was complaining on every play call, and I think the refs gave it to him....
the formations and playcalling on offense  
Les in TO : 9/11/2017 4:55 pm : link
are centred around #13. if he's in the game, you have to pick your poison.

without odell's game changing plays last year the giants likely would have lost to the cowboys twice, the ravens and possibly the lions, eagles, browns, bears and saints. we would have been a 500 or possibly sub 500 team/top 5 draft team. I don't think some people appreciate the level he brings to the team, much like in 2008 when plax went down and our offense put up 8, 11 and 14 points in 3 games against divisional rivals.

when he is in the game and on his game, odell is a game changer. both for the direct plays he makes, and the space he opens up for his teammates. we need his ankle to heal asap and him to be focused when he's back or it's going to be a long season.
I can't help picturing this exchange between coach and QB:  
81_Great_Dane : 9/11/2017 5:32 pm : link
McAdoo: What we need... what you gotta do...

Eli: Yes coach?

McAdoo: ... because this worked in Green Bay, y'know...

Eli: Sure coach, just tell me, I'll try anything.

McAdoo: ... could ya... be Aaron Rodgers?

Eli: (pause) Uhhhhhhhh....
No you haven't seen it all if you didn't see Artie Weinmeister at DE,  
plato : 9/11/2017 5:33 pm : link
Charlie Conerly throwing to Kyle rote, or Frank Gifford coming round the end to option pass to pat summerall pr joe Walton. Alex Webster gaining hard earned yards when needed, Lyndon Crow, Jimmy Patton, and others in the Defense.

Sorry just reminiscing, been watching Giants since 1947. One thing guaranteed, never see it all, they will almost always come up with a way to break your heart.
I have been following  
PaulN : 9/11/2017 6:09 pm : link
The Giants since the 1961 season, and in my opinion you have a head coach that is absolutely clueless, there are two things bailing him out, one is the talent that Reese brought in on defense last season, and two is the great job of coaching the Spags is doing with the talent.

McAdoo is a worse coach then Ray Handley is, and I am not kidding or over reacting, did you watch Snacks shaking his head watching that shitshow on the field when he was on the sideline, there is not anyone that thinks this guy knows what he is doing. The Giants better move quickly and get him out of here before there is no chance for Eli, because he is ready to get killed and that is no joke.

Reese has also done a horrible job with the offensive line, I don't give a shit what resources he has used, what does that have to do with anything, if you have 5 walk on's that can play, then who gives a fuck where they came from or how, his job is to supply the team with the talent needed, he has failed with the offensive line, and with a QB that so desperately needs the protection, and did nothing this season to improve it, nothing. This OLine is a disgrace, there is not one good player on it, and at least two that do not belong on an NFL roster.

But with all that said, there is a load of talent on the offense and if you had a coach that was even only competent and decent would be able to do much better then this, this is a joke.
PaulN  
JerseyCityJoe : 9/11/2017 6:31 pm : link
I agree with most of your post. But naming "He that should not be named" is a bit over the top.
The roblem with the Offense is ..........  
Triple "G" : 9/11/2017 6:46 pm : link
We have more weapons at skills positions than most teams in this league do. We have absolutely NO 0 NADA Talent on the O-line.

All the Superstars on Offense in the league become AVG to Below AVG Players if you cant get the ball in their hands. Well you are seeing this exact scenario unfold before your eyes. We have 2 legit players on this line Pugh and Richburgh the rest of them would either be backups or not on any team in this league.

No QB will have success in this league without getting at least 3 secs to throw the ball. No deeper play can develop unless the receiver's have 3 secs to run their route and start their cut if the route calls for a cut.

Bitch all you want about Eli, about Perkins, about the coaches (Which McAdoo IMO Should not be a HC or a OC) but the bottom line is that this O-Line couldn't block with any consistency a top 20 College team
The roblem with the Offense is ..........  
Triple "G" : 9/11/2017 6:48 pm : link
We have more weapons at skills positions than most teams in this league do. We have absolutely NO 0 NADA Talent on the O-line.

All the Superstars on Offense in the league become AVG to Below AVG Players if you cant get the ball in their hands. Well you are seeing this exact scenario unfold before your eyes. We have 2 legit players on this line Pugh and Richburgh the rest of them would either be backups or not on any team in this league.

No QB will have success in this league without getting at least 3 secs to throw the ball. No deeper play can develop unless the receiver's have 3 secs to run their route and start their cut if the route calls for a cut.

Bitch all you want about Eli, about Perkins, about the coaches (Which McAdoo IMO Should not be a HC or a OC) but the bottom line is that this O-Line couldn't block with any consistency a top 20 College team
You've heard about the mistake at the lake  
blueblood'11 : 9/11/2017 7:05 pm : link
Well hiring McAdoo was " The Mkstake of the Meadowlands"
RE: LauderdaleMatty  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/11/2017 8:34 pm : link
In comment 13594425 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
This team has enough offensive talent to score more than three points against Dallas.

We were out-coached badly on Sunday night.


I agree. But I'm not for willing to give Reese a
Total pass.
RE: LauderdaleMatty  
The_Boss : 9/11/2017 8:51 pm : link
In comment 13594433 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
And that doesn't excuse the lack of attention on the OL... I talked about it as far back as the offseason podcasts that the Giants were taking a big risk on the OL and doubling down.

But you have Manning, Engram, Shepard, Marshall, Vereen, Ellison... you score more than 3 points. Especially against that defense.

The Dallas coaches have our offense figured out. They shut us out year in the Meadowlands too except for that one spectacular play by Beckham.


Crossing you fingers and hoping that the same 5 shitty players on the most important unit on the team play better than they have for the past few seasons is a horseshit strategy. That's what Reese decided to do though. If they lose Monday and it spirals to 0-3 and 0-4, essentially ending the season, who is the fall guy? Will there be one?
A few things that bother me...  
EricJ : 9/11/2017 8:53 pm : link
1. Post game when McAdoo was asked whether we made adjustments during half time. He said we made a couple but for the most part we stuck with the plan. The plan that produced nothing in the first half.

2. I keep reading about all of these weapons. Other than OBJ we have Marshall who BBI said is over the hill and cannot separate, Shepard who BBI said in another thread was over rated and slow, Engram who is so far nothing more than hype because he has yet to prove it in the NFL. Brings the same optimism we had for Shepard before we realized what we had. No weapons in the running game unless you think that is Vereen who the Pats thought was no longer good enough for them. So... other than Odell... what weapons?

3. We are still rolling with the 11 personnel thing that hand cuffed us last year.

4. I can see the defense losing faith in the offense. When this happens you end up with a divide inside of the locker room.

5. If we have a losing season, I don't see Mara doing anything about Reese, McAdoo, etc
Eric  
Bill in TN : 9/11/2017 9:16 pm : link
Agree totally. The biggest problem is Johnny Boy Mara. He is loyal to a fault, and will not do anything about Reese. JR has given us exactly 1 OL draft choice in the past 2 years, and 1 FA OL who was inactive last night.
How incompetent is that?
How can he be allowed to continue?
SMH.
I said pre-game now we shall see if we improved  
Bluesbreaker : 9/11/2017 11:24 pm : link
LauderdaleMatty
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2:19 pm : link : reply
And that doesn't excuse the lack of attention on the OL... I talked about it as far back as the offseason podcasts that the Giants were taking a big risk on the OL and doubling down.

But you have Manning, Engram, Shepard, Marshall, Vereen, Ellison... you score more than 3 points. Especially against that defense.

The Dallas coaches have our offense figured out. They shut us out year in the Meadowlands too except for that one spectacular play by Beckham.

You got your answer and without OBJ we would not have sniffed the playoffs !!!
I despise this offense . square peg in a round hole .
Mac attitude was damning post game execution my ass !
RE: A few things that bother me...  
Stu11 : 9/12/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13594972 EricJ said:
Quote:
1. Post game when McAdoo was asked whether we made adjustments during half time. He said we made a couple but for the most part we stuck with the plan. The plan that produced nothing in the first half.

I heard an interview with Bill parcells about 15-20 years ago where he gave out the biggest belly laugh about "halftime adjustments" he explained something along the lines of halftime is like 13 minutes. By the time everyone gets into the lockeroom gets treatment/medical reports/goes to the bathroom etc... there is barely enough time to adjust a jock strap.
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