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I don't think it was that bad

crick n NC : 9/11/2017 9:17 pm
I think some of us got let down by our own expectations. I honestly don't think the OL pass blocking was THAT bad. The worse was easily when flowers got beat for a sack on 2nd and goal. Eli needed a tick more to hit Engram in the back of the end zone. Really Eli didn't have many receivers open all night, as Mac stated, Eli was taking what the defense was giving him, not forcing the ball.

I really think this still goes back to the giants being absolutely no threat to run the ball. Like Mac said, Dallas played soft zones with no threat of the giants being able to run the ball. If the giants can get a run game going Eli can start to enjoy some open receivers.

Just my take. I expect a much better performance against the lions, the giants made a ton of mistakes on the offensive side of the ball.
...  
BleedBlue : 9/11/2017 9:19 pm : link
perkins didnt look half bad, problem is we didnt stick with it. also the protection was AWFUL. in the redzone, eli literally was sacked in a second by THREE dallas DL...it was embarrassing to say the least
I think it's become obvious  
family progtitioner : 9/11/2017 9:21 pm : link
the days of the Giants effectively running the ball died a long time ago. I hate this offense, can't get out of their own way. Without Odell, the Giants really are bottom 5 offense in the league.
the sack on the goal line  
nygiants16 : 9/11/2017 9:23 pm : link
was on eli, it was a 3 step drop and sjpposed to be a fade, as soin as it wasnt there he needed to get rid of it...

offensive line expected ball out quick
I really hate this offense too.  
allstarjim : 9/11/2017 9:25 pm : link
I can't stomach it being this inept. And they don't even try to run. This WCO is garbage. Every time we're at 3rd and 5 and throw a 3 yard pass I want to throw stuff at the TV. This offense is hot garbage and it's been that way for at least 3 seasons now.
It  
AcidTest : 9/11/2017 9:26 pm : link
was awful. Dallas played a cover two and routinely dropped six or more into coverage, because we can't run the ball. Their secondary is suspect, especially with Scandrick out. They simply outnumbered us on the back end, because they got pressure and stuffed the run with just four or five. That's what happened last year, and teams will continue to do it until we run effectively. Eli being completely immobile simply exacerbates the problems of the OL.
I don't think that's right on the goal line  
PatersonPlank : 9/11/2017 9:27 pm : link
First it want Flowers, it was 3 DL players from the right side. Only Pugh held his block. Jerry, Hart, and Richburg all got beat. Eli said he looked off the safety and had Engram but then the sack came. Based on that description I doubt it was a quick hitter to Marshall.

RE: I don't think that's right on the goal line  
BleedBlue : 9/11/2017 9:29 pm : link
In comment 13595019 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
First it want Flowers, it was 3 DL players from the right side. Only Pugh held his block. Jerry, Hart, and Richburg all got beat. Eli said he looked off the safety and had Engram but then the sack came. Based on that description I doubt it was a quick hitter to Marshall.



yea it wasnt a quick hitter at all...he took his drop and had three guys in his face almost immediately the OL has serious bone plays in crucial spots....i mean just watch the stunt that every team will use against us all year long...it works like a charm
RE: RE: I don't think that's right on the goal line  
nygiants16 : 9/11/2017 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13595021 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 13595019 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


First it want Flowers, it was 3 DL players from the right side. Only Pugh held his block. Jerry, Hart, and Richburg all got beat. Eli said he looked off the safety and had Engram but then the sack came. Based on that description I doubt it was a quick hitter to Marshall.





yea it wasnt a quick hitter at all...he took his drop and had three guys in his face almost immediately the OL has serious bone plays in crucial spots....i mean just watch the stunt that every team will use against us all year long...it works like a charm


the way it lookes to me, he took 3 steps looked at marshall and it wasnt there and then ate it...

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/11/2017 9:52 pm : link
We had two first downs in the first half.
RE: ...  
nygiants16 : 9/11/2017 9:54 pm : link
In comment 13595037 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We had two first downs in the first half.


whem beckham sita down to negotiatw his new contract he needs to point to 2 games, last nigjt and minnesota game 2 years ago...

last night illuminated how important he is to this offense, dallas basically sat back and didnt have to double anyone...

does the offensive line have to be better? absolutely but beckham just opens up the field for everyone else
RE: ...  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/11/2017 9:56 pm : link
In comment 13595037 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We had two first downs in the first half.


It really looked like they weren't even trying....
RE: RE: ...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/11/2017 10:03 pm : link
In comment 13595038 nygiants16 said:
Quote:



whem beckham sita down to negotiatw his new contract he needs to point to 2 games, last nigjt and minnesota game 2 years ago...

last night illuminated how important he is to this offense, dallas basically sat back and didnt have to double anyone...

does the offensive line have to be better? absolutely but beckham just opens up the field for everyone else


I must disagree because there have been times when the offense looked like that over the past year and he was on the field too... Minnesota, Green Bay. And just like yesterday, there have been times in which our best receivers literally get zero targets for long stretches to begin a game. It's completely unacceptable. I defended Mac A LOT last season because I genuinely believe Cruz, Jennings, and the TEs were a major part of the problem. But for Brandon Marshall to not see a target 40 minutes into the game is ridiculous. To not even attempt a pass beyond the first down marker for a half is ridiculous. I think people are nit-picking with the defense (Eli Apple aside), but the offensive performance was indefensible.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2017 10:05 pm : link
I thought it was really concerning.

That didn't just look like an "off night" - it looked like something was fundamentally wrong with this offense.

Not good.
Arc  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/11/2017 10:10 pm : link
This is 18 games of this kind of play.

I'm very worried.
It was a fucking offensive disaster  
SomeFan : 9/11/2017 10:12 pm : link
not sure how anyone can say it was not that bad. Frankly, considering that we have not improved one iota from last year on offense, it is worse than a fucking offensive disaster. It is unusually unique ineptitude with virtually no reason to think that it will get better.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2017 10:16 pm : link
It was indeed very familiar of what we've seen since early last season. I figured with the way we upgraded the TE position, adding Marshall, utilizing a little FB play, etc. that we'd be able to really switch things up a bit and show some new wrinkles - but most of what we saw last night was the same old shit from last year.

It's extremely concerning and something needs to change fast otherwise this is going to be a really disappointing season.
I wonder how much of it was  
jcn56 : 9/11/2017 10:18 pm : link
'shit, we need to be perfect because we're without OBJ'. They looked out of sync and out of focus last night.
RE: I really hate this offense too.  
dpinzow : 9/11/2017 10:21 pm : link
In comment 13595017 allstarjim said:
Quote:
I can't stomach it being this inept. And they don't even try to run. This WCO is garbage. Every time we're at 3rd and 5 and throw a 3 yard pass I want to throw stuff at the TV. This offense is hot garbage and it's been that way for at least 3 seasons now.


2 seasons. We had an excellent offense and a historically bad defense in 2015 when McAdoo was OC...that's how Coughlin got shown the door (and TC would have done better than McAdoo with last year's team, IMO)
Has anyone  
crick n NC : 9/11/2017 11:08 pm : link
Bothered to watch the game again? What are the odds you missed important details watching in the heat of the moment?

Cue the "I saw enough the first time" responses.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/11/2017 11:12 pm : link
It's not just about last night. There are trends that are continuing from last year. This offense continually looks out of sync, unable to sustain drives, can't get the ball downfield. It's not good and it doesn't look like it's getting better any time soon.

We can't keep relying on highlight reel slants from Beckham as our only source of offense.
But it's the first game  
crick n NC : 9/11/2017 11:19 pm : link
We all talk about how important Beckham is to the offense, so when he doesn't play and the offense can't move the ball we're surprised?

Perhaps, let's see what happens when Beckham gets back, manning gets a comfortable with Marshall and Engram
Totally disagree the O-line rarely can protect for the long ball  
Bluesbreaker : 9/11/2017 11:43 pm : link
RE: ...
nygiants16 : 9:54 pm : link : reply
In comment 13595037 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We had two first downs in the first half.


whem beckham sita down to negotiatw his new contract he needs to point to 2 games, last nigjt and minnesota game 2 years ago...

last night illuminated how important he is to this offense, dallas basically sat back and didnt have to double anyone...

does the offensive line have to be better? absolutely but beckham just opens up the field for everyone else

Secondly they can't run block and even if they do Perkins
is the only one that can get optimum yardage out of it.
We don't have a threat at RB
I found the most fault with the playcalling  
Matt M. : 9/12/2017 12:17 am : link
We had more than a couple of manageable 3rd downs of 3-5 yards and each time we threw a 2 yard pass. What the fuck good does that do when the D is guarding the sticks right behind the play? Like I said in another thread, Eli isn't dumping the ball. This is the f-ing offense McAdoo calls as the HC. This is not the prolific offense we saw when he was the OC (with less talent).

I also think the running game is not as bad as it's being made out to be. Perkins looked OK last night and so did Darkwa. We just abandon the run and instead settle for 2 yard passes. McAdoo is also extremely predictable. Last year we were told it was because they were always in the 11 personnel. Even at that, there are many things you can do. Well now we have a FB and ran a lot of 2 TE sets. Yet, outside of 1 drive, Dallas seemed to know what was coming every play. Hell, how many times over the last 2 seasons could you sit at home and call the play yourself before the snap? I know I can do it quite often.
RE: But it's the first game  
micky : 9/12/2017 12:47 am : link
In comment 13595143 crick n NC said:
Quote:
We all talk about how important Beckham is to the offense, so when he doesn't play and the offense can't move the ball we're surprised?

Perhaps, let's see what happens when Beckham gets back, manning gets a comfortable with Marshall and Engram


so an offense that totally relies on one player for success, one cannot find or see a major problem with an offense for that??

what are the other 10 players on the field for?

plus it's easy to take snippets of plays to fit an agenda, and ignore the reality of the whole picture...not good in my eyes.
No it wasn't that bad  
gmenatlarge : 9/12/2017 6:49 am : link
it was worse, is this what the offense has disintegrated to, waiting for Odell to save us...pathetic beyond belief.
Yo crick  
blueblood'11 : 9/12/2017 7:00 am : link
Remember last year. They couldn't move the ball either and started a run of I don't know how many games in a row now where they haven't scored at least twenty point in a game and that was all with Beckham on the field.

For anyone to think it's going to be that much better when he's back on the field is kidding themselves. Well, it certainly will help but if last year is any indication they are still going to struggle.

This offense is too much dink and dunk. I know a lot of fans got fed up with the Gilbride play calling but he pushed the ball up the field. He made the defenses defend the whole field. Maybe if McAdoo did some of that it might help open up the running lanes as well as the short to intermediate passing lanes.
RE: Yo crick  
crick n NC : 9/12/2017 7:39 am : link
In comment 13595252 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
Remember last year. They couldn't move the ball either and started a run of I don't know how many games in a row now where they haven't scored at least twenty point in a game and that was all with Beckham on the field.

For anyone to think it's going to be that much better when he's back on the field is kidding themselves. Well, it certainly will help but if last year is any indication they are still going to struggle.

This offense is too much dink and dunk. I know a lot of fans got fed up with the Gilbride play calling but he pushed the ball up the field. He made the defenses defend the whole field. Maybe if McAdoo did some of that it might help open up the running lanes as well as the short to intermediate passing lanes.


Actually teams do defend the whole field against the giants. Manning wss taking what the defense was giving him, which was the short stuff. We get upset when the qb forces the issue, throwing into coverage, then we aren't happy when he takes what the defense gives him. Dallas for the most part covered everything deep and took their chances with the short stuff
Crick  
blueblood'11 : 9/12/2017 8:03 am : link
All defenses try to keep things in front of them for the most part. Good offenses take what they want. They get the matchups that favor them then they go after it. McAdoo's offense is mind boggling. Back in the days of Parcells they ran seam routes and pushed the defenses To cover the deep pass.

Gilbride pushed the envelope too. There was a time when they led the league for a long time in passes over 15 and 20 yard attempts. You don't think defenses tried to keep everthing in front of them going agInst that offense . With all the speed this offense has it should be a track meet out there. Not this insufferable slog we have to watch week in and week out.

Crick ...  
Beer Man : 9/12/2017 8:42 am : link
I'm not sure we were watching the same game
didnt seem like they game planned, however,  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 8:43 am : link
possibly in retrospect they game planned with Becks and found out at the last minute that he was out, then threw blind darts at the playbook basically.

which, just postulating, but that would be very fickle ...I am really struggling for an adjective here, by the player.

Shit or get off the pot.

If your not going to play why travel with the team?
then, with regards to sacks  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 8:46 am : link
timing of sacks is very telling.

if they can dial them up just when they need them, or when they will be most effective, you typically know you are fucked.

In addition, sacks from interior gaps...on a team that is not running consistently, that's very telling as well.
16  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 8:53 am : link
with regards to becks contract.

that game counts -against- becks, because, whereas he was missed schematically, he comes off looking like a precious drama queen for hedging until the last minute.

you can either go or not, don't drag it out, do give the staff a chance to make a proper game plan.

Plaxico Burress had much worse when he dragged us to a championship with his heroic efforts. Plex comes off looking like a man and a champion, becks, not yet, not at all, more like a whiney, self obsessed, circus clown.

Terrell Owens like dramatics, and T.O. was fired despite his great talents by a few teams if I recall correctly
RE: Crick  
crick n NC : 9/12/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13595282 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
All defenses try to keep things in front of them for the most part. Good offenses take what they want. They get the matchups that favor them then they go after it. McAdoo's offense is mind boggling. Back in the days of Parcells they ran seam routes and pushed the defenses To cover the deep pass.

Gilbride pushed the envelope too. There was a time when they led the league for a long time in passes over 15 and 20 yard attempts. You don't think defenses tried to keep everthing in front of them going agInst that offense . With all the speed this offense has it should be a track meet out there. Not this insufferable slog we have to watch week in and week out.


BB11

I disagree about the speed of this offense, Beckham and Engram are the only ones with threatening speed, and Engram is going to have to show he's a legitimate threat. I think lack of speed at the rb position and wr are one of the reasons the giants are easy to defend.

RE: Crick ...  
crick n NC : 9/12/2017 8:54 am : link
In comment 13595338 Beer Man said:
Quote:
I'm not sure we were watching the same game


We watched the same game, your opinion differs than mine. Pretty simple
RE: 16  
chuckydee9 : 9/12/2017 9:17 am : link
In comment 13595360 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
with regards to becks contract.

that game counts -against- becks, because, whereas he was missed schematically, he comes off looking like a precious drama queen for hedging until the last minute.

you can either go or not, don't drag it out, do give the staff a chance to make a proper game plan.

Plaxico Burress had much worse when he dragged us to a championship with his heroic efforts. Plex comes off looking like a man and a champion, becks, not yet, not at all, more like a whiney, self obsessed, circus clown.

Terrell Owens like dramatics, and T.O. was fired despite his great talents by a few teams if I recall correctly


All of that is just Media perceptions.. its not reality.. He was hurt and he couldn't play..He tried to give it a go but it didn't happen.. Remember when media was talking trash about Nicks after he came back from the injury.. Everyone just said he isn't gutting it out.. Turns out he was injured and couldn't be a viable WR anymore..

Coaches had game planned for him not being there.. Their game plan and OL and the running game and Eli all sucked..
RE: RE: Crick  
chuckydee9 : 9/12/2017 9:20 am : link
In comment 13595362 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 13595282 blueblood'11 said:


Quote:


All defenses try to keep things in front of them for the most part. Good offenses take what they want. They get the matchups that favor them then they go after it. McAdoo's offense is mind boggling. Back in the days of Parcells they ran seam routes and pushed the defenses To cover the deep pass.

Gilbride pushed the envelope too. There was a time when they led the league for a long time in passes over 15 and 20 yard attempts. You don't think defenses tried to keep everthing in front of them going agInst that offense . With all the speed this offense has it should be a track meet out there. Not this insufferable slog we have to watch week in and week out.




BB11

I disagree about the speed of this offense, Beckham and Engram are the only ones with threatening speed, and Engram is going to have to show he's a legitimate threat. I think lack of speed at the rb position and wr are one of the reasons the giants are easy to defend.


I completely disagree.. its the lack of power at RB that we lack.. Zeke got 2 - 4 yards by falling forward against our superior DL all game long.. Perkins would fall backwards.. those 2 - 4 yards per carry for 15 carries a game make all the difference in the world.. We need more power football not speed.. OBJ and Engram have all the speed this team needs.. Not many teams have the speed that we have..
It was really bad  
AnnapolisMike : 9/12/2017 9:24 am : link
one of the worst performances by a Giants offense in years.

I will say the Giants were due for a bad game in Dallas and were a little overconfident going into this game. Lets see how they respond vs. Detroit.
One other question  
crick n NC : 9/12/2017 9:26 am : link
For those that feel the OL was awful and in the same breath say the qb sucked, what do you expect. I find it odd to criticize the qb position much if the OL sucked.

I don't think the qb played bad, and I think the OL pass blocking was at least adequate. Dallas dared Eli to throw into coverage.
A work in progress  
JonC : 9/12/2017 9:41 am : link
NYG is still a young team with a head coach still learning, hopefully it will begin to click and the talent will start to produce, allowing the coach some expanded ability to use his system more fully.

The trend is concerning tho, an OL that has talent issues, RBs that aren't quick or special, a very basic offense the opposition seems easily able to plan for and read by formation. The offense as a hole doesn't play with much snarl or physicality, even the defense lacked it at times in Dallas.
There is only one thing to blame here  
montanagiant : 9/12/2017 10:35 am : link
The offensive game planning and play calling.

We looked like a team that found out 10 mins prior to the start that OBJ was out and had no backup plan for it. We once again looked predictable and hesitant to attack. We gave up running the ball in key spots. To me it appeared we were looking for the Defense to bail us out yet again and hope the Offense gets us into to FG range. We come out in the 3rd qtr, get something going and then right back into the same plink and plop horse shit we have seen since McAdoo took over. And this was against a patchwork D with 3 key players out and a makeshift secondary

You know what we are going to see this Sunday? Same shit but we will hope OBJ takes one of those 3yrd passes to the house and JPP can get a TO.
RE: RE: Crick ...  
Beer Man : 9/12/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13595364 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 13595338 Beer Man said:


Quote:


I'm not sure we were watching the same game



We watched the same game, your opinion differs than mine. Pretty simple
I get it. Your a "glass is half-full" guy looking for the silver lining following a dumpster fire. That's cool. But the O stuck, and the OL was horrible.
RE: A work in progress  
Racer : 9/12/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13595464 JonC said:
Quote:
NYG is still a young team with a head coach still learning, hopefully it will begin to click and the talent will start to produce, allowing the coach some expanded ability to use his system more fully.

The trend is concerning tho, an OL that has talent issues, RBs that aren't quick or special, a very basic offense the opposition seems easily able to plan for and read by formation. The offense as a hole doesn't play with much snarl or physicality, even the defense lacked it at times in Dallas.


You know, as a BBI'r without a cluster of popularity merit badges, I'd consider it futile to post my gut feel that 'snarl and physicality' is something you see most successful teams feeding off, teams that have it rarely come out for the opening kickoff flat or stay that way, and they keep their home crowd into the game.

They've got it on D, but beyond Ellison and Flowers, it's another development area on O.

Wouldn't have posted, but now I have a highly-credible source to agree with.
RE: .  
NYDCBlue : 9/12/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13595135 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
It's not just about last night. There are trends that are continuing from last year. This offense continually looks out of sync, unable to sustain drives, can't get the ball downfield. It's not good and it doesn't look like it's getting better any time soon.

We can't keep relying on highlight reel slants from Beckham as our only source of offense.


Side bar, but has anyone else noticed how horrible our offense looks in the preseason with anyone other than Eli under center? Eli gets a lot of crap for the poor play of our offense, but when he is not in the offense goes from bad to high school level. No matter who else is back there. Has Mac just never had an NFL quality backup quarterback or is it his system?
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