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NFT: Job Offer Scenario

UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:14 am
Curious what other think is a reasonable response to this scenario.

Company 1 - working with an external recruiter who was referred to me by my last company that I left a few weeks ago. The recruiter is nice but is now being pretty pushy about an offer I received this morning. This company is a great opportunity but the commute is terrible; doable but really not ideal.

Company 2 - No recruiter, would allow me to switch to a more fascinating industry with a new technology that I'm pretty excited about. I have a final interview on Thursday to meet with the CEO and President. I like this oppportunity more and the commute would be great, but no offer yet.

Compensation for both are pretty close so money won't be playing that big of a factor.

What do I tell the recruiter today? She's aware I'm interviewing and keeping my options open. I haven't told her yet about my meeting on Thursday so I was going to lead with that, but what would be a reasonable amount of time to ask to hold off on signing this offer?
I would tell the recruiter...  
Chris in Philly : 9/12/2017 10:18 am : link
to back off. If she knows you are looking elsewhere, then it's perfectly reasonable to ask her to wait until after your interview in two days...
i would say weighing all options  
George from PA : 9/12/2017 10:20 am : link
and throw it her....what is the rush?

how long job offer has been available through recruiter? how many canidates does she have?
The recruiter is in sales, she needs the close.  
Keith : 9/12/2017 10:22 am : link
I don't think I'd tell her to back off, and I probably wouldn't put a time frame on it, I'd probably say...

Ms. Recruiter, I really appreciate your assistance and persistance in finding a good fit for me and the company. This is a big decision that I'm not only making for myself, but for my family. I need some time to consider all of my options and discuss them with my family before I make any decision. Again, thank you very much for your help, but I need some more time to do all of my due diligence.
Doesn't the offer have a time on it where it expires?  
PatersonPlank : 9/12/2017 10:22 am : link
Something like 5 or 7 business days is standard. If so, which I believe it should, then that is the timeline. Tell her you are still considering the offer, and have until xxx.
The recruiter and I discussed on Friday  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:26 am : link
that they made a verbal offer but wanted a verbal back from me before sending me a written offer. Strange, but I said yes. The recruiter asked me later on Friday and again yesterday the status of my other interview. I said nothing yet but will hopefully know more soon, which I did yesterday afternoon.

The company originally wanted me to start on 9/18 due to a big project but I said that was way too soon, I'd need 10/2 possibly 9/25. So the offer is for a 9/25 start date which is alright, still not ideal.

I'm going to call the recruiter back today and say that I have a final interview first thing thursday morning and I should be in a better position to accept/reject the offer by end of week. Is that reasonable?
That sounds perfectly reasonable...  
Chris in Philly : 9/12/2017 10:27 am : link
to me. But I get in fights on the internet, so what the hell do I know?
I think its def reasonable  
Keith : 9/12/2017 10:28 am : link
and if the company doesn't think so, then you just learned a lesson about the company you might work for.

I'd also make sure the 2nd company knew the situation and if they felt like you were a good fit, to expedite their offer.
Just checked the letter  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:29 am : link
there's no expiration date. The letter came from the company with the recruiter CCd. Slightly awkward from a time negotiation standpoint.
I'd go Keith's route  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 10:29 am : link
You're grateful for her hard work and are still working through a thought process on a big decision that can't be rushed.

If they're pushier than that - and it might not be the recruiter only, could just as easily be the company wanting to fill this role ASAP - then you might want to reconsider that spot anyway. Doesn't sound like you're too into it, to be honest.
So you verbally accepted an offer  
Jim in Fairfax : 9/12/2017 10:30 am : link
But are still interviewing elsewhere?
I'd ask for something in writing, and official offer, before deciding  
PatersonPlank : 9/12/2017 10:30 am : link
I'd say that all though I am looking at other options still, on the surface it looks good, but the devil is always in the details. Until you see everything in writing you can't decide.

I've seen written offers come through with stuff different from expectations all the time.

Yes you are leading them on a little, but you're not committing either. Besides I would be $1 there is something in that letter that needs explaining or tweaking. This buys you the time you need, and moves the process further down the path.
The 2nd company  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:31 am : link
knows I'm interviewing. I also reiterated that in my follow up note after I met with everyone last week. I'll discuss it again on Thursday, letting them know it's my top choice but that I do have interest from other companies.
RE: I'd go Keith's route  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13595575 jcn56 said:
Quote:
You're grateful for her hard work and are still working through a thought process on a big decision that can't be rushed.

If they're pushier than that - and it might not be the recruiter only, could just as easily be the company wanting to fill this role ASAP - then you might want to reconsider that spot anyway. Doesn't sound like you're too into it, to be honest.


I'm split to be honest. The company is very well positioned in they industry but the commute would blow. It would change my current lifestyle a lot, mainly with my 2 year old and not seeing her as much and putting a lot of time management pressure on my wife who also works 40 minutes away.

It's the first offer, so naturally I think this may be the only one, but it's also a good company so that makes it hard. I got myself out of a really bad scenario so I'm super hesitant right now.
RE: So you verbally accepted an offer  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:36 am : link
In comment 13595579 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
But are still interviewing elsewhere?


Of course. The offer Friday was still contingent on references so I wasn't going to seize interviewing.
Any chance at negotiating a little with the first company on  
PatersonPlank : 9/12/2017 10:36 am : link
working at home 2 days a week? I don't know what your job is, but sometimes thats no big deal, and may make this job more attractive?
RE: Any chance at negotiating a little with the first company on  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13595605 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
working at home 2 days a week? I don't know what your job is, but sometimes thats no big deal, and may make this job more attractive?


We discussed but they can't do it. They can do a bit of a flex schedule in regards to when I start and end my day, but that still doesn't help with the commute time and it wouldn't kick in until after my initial 90 day period.
How long is the  
Keith : 9/12/2017 10:40 am : link
commute?
If you left a bad spot, I would really reconsider being  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 10:41 am : link
quick with your job search. Sometimes a little extra time makes all the difference.

I also wouldn't have verbally accepted. At this point, in their eyes - you've taken the job, you're just waiting on the particulars. Telling them you'll take it, but you're still interviewing basically gives them the impression you're not 100% sold on their job either.

I've hired a lot of people - one sign for me is always when I'm unable to get a projected start date at the point of verbal acceptance. There's usually a ton of paperwork to work out since I've always worked for big companies, but IMO when someone is ready to take a job, they have in mind when they want to start. If I can't get a date (or down to a 2 week range), then IMO they haven't taken the job yet.

Worst I was ever burnt was when a new hire insisted he needed an extra 2 weeks (wanted to start 1 month out) because he needed a vacation and owed his current employer 2 weeks. We worked out a start date, he signed his offer letter, all was well - and 3 days before he was supposed to start I got a call saying that he was blown away by another offer and decided to take that job instead. Set us back 2 months as we also lost the backup candidate that we really liked, for a project that was already behind to begin with.
I've only done it off hours for the interviews  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:42 am : link
but with no traffic it's 55-60 minutes each way so maybe add on another 10-15 during the work week. I was previously not considering working in NYC due to the commute but doing so would almost be less than this would for much more money.
If you think the 2nd option is the better opportunity,  
Section331 : 9/12/2017 10:44 am : link
you owe it to yourself to let that play out. If that pisses off a potential employer, so be it. I'm just not sure how forthcoming I would be about the final interview. Maybe tell the recruiter you haven't had the chance to discuss their offer with your wife/gf/family? If they know you're waiting for another interview, they are going to figure that they are not your first choice pretty quickly.
JCN  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:45 am : link
I really didn't want to verbally accept, but felt I had no choice. They wouldn't give me anything in writing without it and it's something I discussed I was taken aback by with the recruiter. Every other offer I ever got has come in writing with a date to accept. It's just been strange.
Basically every question of I asked or  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 10:47 am : link
any request I've made has been met with "if they throw that in will you accept"? My answer has always been that I need to see everything in writing first.
I can speak from experience on this....  
Keith : 9/12/2017 10:49 am : link
My last job I had a 1 hour 15 minute commute, sometimes more depending on traffic. It was terrible. Not only was I getting home late, but I was miserable from being in the car that long.

I started a new job earlier this year that's about 12 minutes from my house and my life is so much better. Made a huge difference for me and the fam.
My opinion is that if you like this job, and would take it if you  
PatersonPlank : 9/12/2017 10:55 am : link
never had the other opportunity, then stall them a little. Ask if the references worked out fine, ask to see their employee details (like benefits, vacation rules, etc.) and ask for something in writing. This should give you enough time to check this other thing out, but you're still moving forward and not letting it go. Getting the offer in writing does not mean you took it, no matter what they think. It just means you want to see the details. Signing the offer means you took it.

In the scenario I just laid out, what you don't want to have happen is that you turn this down and then don't get the other one.

If you wouldn't take job #1 anyway, well then turn it down.
I think you can use the commute issue to your benefit  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/12/2017 10:56 am : link
Ask for a week so you can determine/consider your commute and what your schedule would look like given the challenging commute.

Of course the recruiter is going to be pushy - they're essentially commissioned salespeople once it gets to the offer stage, and it's their job to deliver the candidate for the company. Everybody wants to do their job and do it well.
I'm a recruiter  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/12/2017 10:59 am : link
It sounds like the second position is your favorite option.

As a recruiter, I always tell my candidates that all I ask is for open and honest communication. If you said I have this option, and I want to see through the interview process, I can't be upset at that. The only downside is that your offer might have an expiration date. Its kind of like proposing to your girlfriend. If you present the ring you kind of want a response right away.

When did you get the offer date wise?

Now as for this next interview goes, you need to make it aware that you have been interviewing and that you have an outstanding offer on the table at the end of the interview. You do this by saying, I am very interested in this position, and I wouldn't have taken this interview if it wasn't my top choice. That way they know if they want you they have to move fast and it might get you an offer on the spot. Or, they might tell you they aren't ready to make a move for some period of time.

I would suggest doing both those things.
One last comment, if this job #1 is just not doable with the commute,  
PatersonPlank : 9/12/2017 10:59 am : link
but you do like the job, then tell them. Tell them that you will accept the job if you can work at home 2 days per week, if not then thank you.

It really gets down to how much you want this job #1 in my personal opinion.
Good advice guys  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 11:00 am : link
I really appreciate it, lots to consider
Or you could reject both jobs, and just follow the Giants around  
PatersonPlank : 9/12/2017 11:02 am : link
all season in a beat up VW mini-van.
RE: Or you could reject both jobs, and just follow the Giants around  
Section331 : 9/12/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13595674 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
all season in a beat up VW mini-van.


Sorry, I already took that gig.
RE: JCN  
jcn56 : 9/12/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13595637 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I really didn't want to verbally accept, but felt I had no choice. They wouldn't give me anything in writing without it and it's something I discussed I was taken aback by with the recruiter. Every other offer I ever got has come in writing with a date to accept. It's just been strange.


IMO - that's being strongarmed. If the recruiter is responsible, then the company shouldn't be using her. It's just as likely they're to blame as she is.

Just remember - hot job market, and you don't want to be one of those flip-floppers who jump from one job to the next, you want to be at this one a couple of years at least. Be sure you're going to be happy wherever you go, and don't assume there won't be other opportunities if you decide this one isn't really for you.
RE: RE: JCN  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/12/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13595685 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13595637 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


I really didn't want to verbally accept, but felt I had no choice. They wouldn't give me anything in writing without it and it's something I discussed I was taken aback by with the recruiter. Every other offer I ever got has come in writing with a date to accept. It's just been strange.



IMO - that's being strongarmed. If the recruiter is responsible, then the company shouldn't be using her. It's just as likely they're to blame as she is.

Just remember - hot job market, and you don't want to be one of those flip-floppers who jump from one job to the next, you want to be at this one a couple of years at least. Be sure you're going to be happy wherever you go, and don't assume there won't be other opportunities if you decide this one isn't really for you.


I can't get a written offer from a company until they verbally accept. However, I always make sure that the person I am recruiting is going to accept an offer that eventually gets offered to them.

Now, what I would have done in your case, is sent you an email with the particulars, and say this is the offer as it stands, once you except I can get you a physical offer letter from said company. I will see how much time I can buy you, but the offer is not going to be there forever.

Realistically I don't see why the offer won't be there on Thursday. They can give you 2 days to decide. Need to tell the second company you have an offer on the table though, and they will let you know where you stand real quick.
eh, I prefer to keep everything close to my chest  
ImThatGuy : 9/12/2017 11:23 am : link
Be honest to a point, but I wouldn't necessarily say you still have a final interview round coming. If they push you on it just say "I'm in a very similar position with another company and I'm deciding my next move"

If you tell them you still have another round of interviews it gives them some leverage, don't reveal too much
Yeah I agree  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 11:29 am : link
my wife said something similar as well. Going to tell them I'm weighing a couple of similar options and need until the end of the week.
Congrats on the offer.  
BrettNYG10 : 9/12/2017 11:30 am : link
Hope things workout well for you on Thursday.
Traffic is the big factor  
AJ23 : 9/12/2017 11:38 am : link
Since it sounds like you're in NYC and you will see stop-and-go - don't do it, or try your hardest to avoid it. I live in the Maryland area and have an hour commute, but I don't have much stop-and-go - so it's not bad.
After  
pjcas18 : 9/12/2017 11:39 am : link
it took me 2 hours 15 minutes to get to the train station this morning it reminded me how much I hate commuting (I work from home when I'm not traveling).

I would push for the job with the better commute with all other things sounding equal.

Good luck, the other advice you have so far is mostly what I'd agree with. Commutes are killers though IMO and if my company ever made my job a "go into an office job" I'd look for a new job.
I'm in Stamford CT  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 11:41 am : link
commute to midtown would be roughly an hour. My drive to this job offer would be about the same, but the money wouldn't be close since it isn't NYC.
pjcas  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 11:44 am : link
yeah, that's my gut on this as well. Prior to having a kid I'd probably do it, but now it's something that I have to really consider more carefully. My wife's job is flexible but asking her to work full time and do full time pick up and drop off isn't fair. There will be days where she needs to work late and that could make things very difficult.
Just spoke to the recruiter  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 12:00 pm : link
didn't seem too happy that I asked for more time. I know she's in sales and it's her job but jeez, thought she'd atleast understand that asking for a couple of days to think about it is reasonable.
RE: If you think the 2nd option is the better opportunity,  
Maximus, Esq. : 9/12/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13595632 Section331 said:
Quote:
you owe it to yourself to let that play out. If that pisses off a potential employer, so be it. I'm just not sure how forthcoming I would be about the final interview. Maybe tell the recruiter you haven't had the chance to discuss their offer with your wife/gf/family? If they know you're waiting for another interview, they are going to figure that they are not your first choice pretty quickly.


I agree with this. Let the second opportunity play out first. If you "lose" the first opportunity because of their lack of patience, then that job wasn't meant to be and as one other poster said, you learned a valuable lesson about that place. We have all moved jobs, and the first place should understand that you are vetting all possibilities. If they don't understand that, you do not want to work there.
Agreed  
UConn4523 : 9/12/2017 12:20 pm : link
thanks again everyone, hopefully this plays out well inn the end.
RE: Just spoke to the recruiter  
Triple "G" : 9/13/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13595780 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
didn't seem too happy that I asked for more time. I know she's in sales and it's her job but jeez, thought she'd atleast understand that asking for a couple of days to think about it is reasonable.


Ive been a "fly on the wall" in this thread so to speak. But I now feel compelled to say something.

1) It seems to me that your recruiter is pushing you into this job. Id ask myself WHY? I don't think its the company being inpatient I do feel it is the recruiter.

2) If the company doesn't want to give you the offer in writing before a verbal, that tells me they don't want to commit to anything as far as what they are offering you. Is it really that big of a deal to get the offer in writing, or are they telling you one thing by word of mouth and when a written offer comes is it totally different? That is the only reason I could see for not putting it in writing

3) I have done the commute thing, I did it for the money. I will tell you from experience that all the money in the world will never get back the time you lost with your child.

4) I have to go back to the Written Offer or lack there of, that just reading this thread is a HUGE RED FLAG for me, the recruiter pushing you for an answer basically yesterday is another HUGE RED FLAG. Think long and hard before you make any commitment, especially about this particular job. The recruiting and the pushing of her for you to commit is rather unusual, I would have to ask why it is such a big deal to have the answer now instead of 2 days form now. I would bet dollars to dounuts you will knock her off her game and she just might cave with the real answer

Good Luck I have been where you are and it isn't fun to be pushed into something your not sure about
Thanks Triple G  
UConn4523 : 9/13/2017 2:38 pm : link
had my first interview with another company this morning for slightly more money and probably better benefits with a 25 minute drive opposed to an hour +. While there's no guarantee I get the job I think I'd be doing myself a disservice to not move forward and see how it goes. The opportunity I really want comes down to tomorrow so fingers crossed.

I talked to the recruiter for Company 1 again today after they called and left a message this morning. The recruiter wanted an update on what my thought process is after I already committed to giving them my answer by mid day Friday. I finally said that other things have come up and I'd be foolish not to entertain them. The recruiter calls me every day and it's really off putting. I get wanting to have a pulse on things especially since it effects getting paid, but man is this putting a bad taste in my mouth. The recruiter then went ahead and said "if I knew the hesitation I wouldn't have asked for a written offer". It took everything I had not to lose my cool but I can't believe this much is being made over having something in writing. So damn strange.
Accept the offer  
trueblueinpw : 9/13/2017 3:28 pm : link
Go to the other interview this week and if you get an offer there you can always back out of the other job.
RE: Accept the offer  
Bockman : 9/13/2017 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13597614 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Go to the other interview this week and if you get an offer there you can always back out of the other job.


Yeah definitely don't do that. Great way to burn bridges.
I'm not going to do that  
UConn4523 : 9/13/2017 3:46 pm : link
it would be a last resort type thing out of desperation and my industry is too small for word about it not to spread. Like I said I really like people and the company, our paths could cross again in the future.
Backing out of an offer  
trueblueinpw : 9/13/2017 4:02 pm : link
Happens all the time. But, yeah, you probably wouldn't get another offer at that company a while. But unless you work in a business that's wicked small or a small town or something, it's not going to kill your reputation. Not a lot of other options either. You could counter offer - which you should do anyway and that'll get you a day or two maybe. You can decline. You can be honest and say the commute sucks and ask for some work from home days if it's that's kind of job.

One thing I'll say, working for someone else is always pretty mercenary. Probably more so than you think. If you did back out of offer and then a year later you were still the bees knees and bringing in the clients and new business or developing new products that were profitable or something else that's good for the company, you'd be forgiven any prior minor indiscretions.
UConn  
Sean : 9/13/2017 9:50 pm : link
I remember you saying in the past emphatically how much you value TIME. You do not strike me as a person who wants to spend upwards of 2.5-3 hours commuting everyday.
RE: UConn  
UConn4523 : 9/13/2017 10:00 pm : link
In comment 13598132 Sean said:
Quote:
I remember you saying in the past emphatically how much you value TIME. You do not strike me as a person who wants to spend upwards of 2.5-3 hours commuting everyday.


I'd say that's accurate, probably now more than ever with my daughter. I wouldn't handle not seeing her much during the week very well. The plan was to suck it up if I had to but I'm realizing that will just make me miserable. I wish the company was 30 minutes closer but it is what it is at this point.
Don't worry about the passive aggressive recruiter  
JonC : 9/14/2017 9:45 am : link
she's just being pushy and wanting to lock in a pay day.

You pretty clearly don't love the opportunity, it would make sense to pursue opp #2 and perhaps even others after that, makes more sense than accepting the first offer if you can hold out financially. There will be more opps.

UConn, how did your interview go yesterday?  
NYG27 : 9/15/2017 12:13 pm : link
Are you leaning towards one offer over another.
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