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To me it's as simple as this: we need Odell

Knee of Theismann : 9/12/2017 4:21 pm
Until we see the New York Giants play a game this season with Odell Beckham 100% healthy, we really don't know what we have.

Our offense is built around Odell Beckham being the once-in-a-generation play maker that he is. With him out of the lineup, it changes the whole tone of the offense from top to bottom.

On top of that, the Cowboys wanted nothing more than to knock us off in game 1, especially considering we beat them twice last year. They had 2 possible defensive game plans, and just imagine how pumped up they got when they had the opportunity to go with the more aggressive one. They smelled blood in the water and they pounced, end of story.

I'm not going to panic nor am I going to say that everything will be fine when Beckham is back. I'm just saying that I really believe we have just 2 indispensable players: Eli and Odell. We were missing Odell, and hence we looked shitty and lost the damn football game.

People will say: it's not just that we lost, it's that we looked so bad. Yeah, that's usually what happens when you lose a football game by more than one score, you look worse than the other team playing. We've seen in recent years that not even the first 16 games are always a good indication of who will win the super bowl, let alone the first game. This is the damn NFL, anything can happen, anything can change, especially when you put the most dangerous offensive player in the league back in a team's lineup.

I don't post on BBI much, but with all the doom and gloom I've been seeing I just needed get this off my chest and I appreciate you bearing with me through my rant (if you did). Thanks.



Double Odell and blitz the f out of Eli  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 9/12/2017 4:22 pm : link
That's what I would do.
They did nt just lose  
joeinpa : 9/12/2017 4:27 pm : link
To Dallas. They were non competitive.

Beckham would ve helped, but not enough to overcome the play of that offensive line.
A healthy OBJ will be a huge lift BUT ...  
Spider56 : 9/12/2017 4:28 pm : link
Football is won or lost at the LOS ... that's where the simplicity is. Consistently win at the line and you get (or stop) 1st downs, control the clock, score (or defend) in the red zone and demoralize the other team ... We're built that way on defense but not on offense... and that I do not understand.
Subtracting Victor Cruz from the 2011 team  
widmerseyebrow : 9/12/2017 4:29 pm : link
does not render them noncompetitive. They would still be pretty potent with Nicks and Manningham.

You can't say that about this team. It doesn't bode well for any Super Bowl aspirations when those playoff defenses will limit Odell and dare us to win with the other guys. Hopefully Engram grows up fast.
RE: Double Odell and blitz the f out of Eli  
NorwoodWideRight : 9/12/2017 4:38 pm : link
In comment 13596290 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
That's what I would do.


That's what teams did last year. No reason to assume it won't continue to work.
As good as Odell is  
Modus Operandi : 9/12/2017 4:44 pm : link
He isn't fixing this, IMHO

He was healthy last season and the offense was feast or famine. We're now in year 3 of the Mcadoo offense and he still hasn't figured out a way to defeat a Cover 2. We couldn't even move the ball on a poor defensive team in a C2.

The consensus last season was that we lacked a guy to threaten the middle seams and sit in zones. Odell is that guy. Shep is that guy. We even drafted a move TE for that very reason and all we did with him in game one was have him sit 3 yards as a dump option.

The problem is bigger than the OL. It's bigger than Eli. It's bigger than not having OBJ for a game. The offense lacks identity. The personnel don't suit the game style and I don't know how that's going to change in the near future.
No, we need a running game,  
barens : 9/12/2017 4:48 pm : link
And a better offensive line.
Giants aren't  
Glover : 9/12/2017 4:56 pm : link
going to magically develop a good O line that can run block. They are what they are, and I agree, they need Beckham, and the proof was that abysmal performance against the cowboys. Should they be better without him? Yea, but they looked pretty sad, and trying to overcome a porous O line at the same time, they absolutely need Beckham right away.
It was like when Plax shot himself in the leg. I was like: "they'll be alright. Eli will spread the ball around." I knew they would miss Plax, but they really fell flat on offense without him. More than I thought they would. And they had a run game then.
Beckham dictates coverage and makes all the other receivers better, makes the run game better, well, in theory. Last year defenses ignored the run and they still couldnt run. This year they will be able to at least be a below average running team, as opposed to having a non-existant run game.
Holy shit they need Beckham.
RE: Double Odell and blitz the f out of Eli  
jvm52106 : 9/12/2017 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13596290 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
That's what I would do.


One thing people keep forgetting is that no TEAM has ever been a champion with just a Superstar WR making the plays. WHY???? Because you can scheme that player out of the game if you really want. When you can get pressure with 4 guys you have 7 to defend 5 and sometimes just 4. Dallas showed you don't have to blitz to get to our line and get in Eli's head.. That is a bad thing.

The Giants cannot win just because Beckham is on the field. They have to run to make teams at least respect it. They have to pass block or it won't matter what OBJ does...
They need Odell  
Rflairr : 9/12/2017 5:37 pm : link
But I think Benjamin needs to consider removing himself from the play calling. He's part of the problem.

I bet if you looked back at the Drive Charts. And I could be wrong but I doubt it. The Giants didn't run 2 times in a row at all. Even when Perkins or Darkwa had nice gains.

He's a predictable play caller. And TC isn't around to keep in line.
RE: Double Odell and blitz the f out of Eli  
Go Terps : 9/12/2017 5:46 pm : link
In comment 13596290 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
That's what I would do.


Why would you blitz when you can generate pressure with 4 or sometimes 3?

Dallas understood this perfectly:

1. Rush 4
2. Play a soft zone, flooding the passing lanes underneath
3. Count on your front 4 to whip the Giants' OL and get Eli off his spot
4. Make Eli throw into tight windows off schedule

The Giants could have Beckham, Jerry Rice, and Randy Moss and it wouldn't matter. Eli needs to be able to set his feet and deliver the ball confidently.
Tied the  
oldog : 9/12/2017 5:50 pm : link
second half. Gave up 7 to a cheap PI that even the announcers, who otherwise browned Dallas, couldn't stand. Had no apparent game plan, other than Odell. But Engram, Lewis, Shepard, Vereen, and Darkwa, given some room showed up. Lewis even tried to steal back one of Eli's errant passes. Marshall, (maybe double covered ?), was not used. When targeted, Elliot flashed. But an immobile QB with happy feet when they do move, oh my. Not sure its as simple as Odell.
RE: RE: Double Odell and blitz the f out of Eli  
family progtitioner : 9/12/2017 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13596381 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13596290 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


That's what I would do.



Why would you blitz when you can generate pressure with 4 or sometimes 3?

Dallas understood this perfectly:

1. Rush 4
2. Play a soft zone, flooding the passing lanes underneath
3. Count on your front 4 to whip the Giants' OL and get Eli off his spot
4. Make Eli throw into tight windows off schedule

The Giants could have Beckham, Jerry Rice, and Randy Moss and it wouldn't matter. Eli needs to be able to set his feet and deliver the ball confidently.


Yup. Teams practically beg the Giants to run it up the gut and they simply can't do it. Remember when the Giants played the Colts a few years ago and only activated a few D lineman to take away their passing game? That Colts team was considered one of the worst in the league in rushing the ball and ran all over the Giants that night.

This Giants team may have one of the worst rushing offenses ever. Play that same strategy against the Giants now and I bet they could STILL shut this team's rush down. The middle of the line is pathetic and every team knows it.
To The OP  
Triple "G" : 9/12/2017 6:00 pm : link
Beckham wouldn't have made any difference besides passing yards. Without an O-Line that can protect for at least 3 secs MINIMUM there is no play that can develop. So if Eli doesn't have the time to deliver the ball to Beckham and that is the problem NO TIME, then how does Beckham make a difference.

I love how people look at every other aspect of this team except the REAL PROBLEM which is the O-line. This O-line is terrible and it has been for 3 seasons.

Reese should have started planning for this the draft after the 2011 Super Bowl. I said it after the game to my brother. If Reese doesn't address the O-line NOW we wont see another Lombardi for 10 years or more.

Reese would rather draft some SUPERSTAR Receiver or Corner than get the guy who is going to make this Offense go ,THE O-LINEMAN. All the Superstars in the league become Average or Below Average Players if you cant get the ball in their hands -------- THAT IS HOW SIMPLE IT IS
Odell papers over some major flaws with this offense  
Vanzetti : 9/12/2017 6:01 pm : link
So, yes, Giants need him. But those flaws will be exposed against tougher teams and in the playoffs.

They need to fix the offense and that is not just Odell.
we need Odell you say. Congrats you win for best post  
Giantsfan79 : 9/12/2017 6:27 pm : link
RE: we need Odell you say. Congrats you win for best post  
Triple "G" : 9/12/2017 6:43 pm : link
In comment 13596425 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:


HA HA HA -- Now this is funny -- I actually got a belly laugh from this post -- Thanks for the laugh HA HA
regarding this  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 6:47 pm : link
''RE: Double Odell and blitz the f out of Eli
Go Terps : 5:46 pm : link : reply

In comment 13596290 Bold Ruler said:

Quote:
That's what I would do.


Why would you blitz when you can generate pressure with 4 or sometimes 3?

Dallas understood this perfectly:

1. Rush 4
2. Play a soft zone, flooding the passing lanes underneath
3. Count on your front 4 to whip the Giants' OL and get Eli off his spot
4. Make Eli throw into tight windows off schedule

The Giants could have Beckham, Jerry Rice, and Randy Moss and it wouldn't matter. Eli needs to be able to set his feet and deliver the ball confidently.''

(if you cannot RUN the ball vs 4 DL and a soft zone, hand. in. your. duke.)
why I would go with your hardest running RB  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 6:53 pm : link
as opposed to your niftiest.

vs soft zone, extra d backs and rush 4, you need guys who can smack the LBs, or make them miss.

try darkwa or gallman lone setback, 12 set -a TE on each side-

and run outside zone all day until they bring up the safeties. this is also a way to give richboyg and your right guard (whoemever) a break from stunts

remember people

4x3 = 12

FIRST DOWN!
eats the clock as well  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 6:56 pm : link
.
.  
idiotsavant : 9/12/2017 6:59 pm : link
Would he have doubled Lewis' production and scored?  
mattlawson : 9/12/2017 7:01 pm : link
Possibly. And that could have opened up Engram, Marshall, or sheppard.

We still cannot run the damn ball. So until further notice we might as well have vareen be the starting back and catch passes most of the time.
RE: regarding this  
Triple "G" : 9/12/2017 7:02 pm : link
In comment 13596445 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
''RE: Double Odell and blitz the f out of Eli
Go Terps : 5:46 pm : link : reply

In comment 13596290 Bold Ruler said:

Quote:
That's what I would do.


Why would you blitz when you can generate pressure with 4 or sometimes 3?

Dallas understood this perfectly:

1. Rush 4
2. Play a soft zone, flooding the passing lanes underneath
3. Count on your front 4 to whip the Giants' OL and get Eli off his spot
4. Make Eli throw into tight windows off schedule

The Giants could have Beckham, Jerry Rice, and Randy Moss and it wouldn't matter. Eli needs to be able to set his feet and deliver the ball confidently.''

(if you cannot RUN the ball vs 4 DL and a soft zone, hand. in. your. duke.)



WOW -- I cant believe my eyes a post that actually makes sense Give this Poster a 6 pack, you sir know what your talking about. Thank You for posting this, I was really losing faith in people because it seems to me common sense has left the building. You have renewed my faith in the human race again Thank You
RE: Subtracting Victor Cruz from the 2011 team  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/12/2017 7:05 pm : link
In comment 13596303 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
does not render them noncompetitive. They would still be pretty potent with Nicks and Manningham.

You can't say that about this team. It doesn't bode well for any Super Bowl aspirations when those playoff defenses will limit Odell and dare us to win with the other guys. Hopefully Engram grows up fast.


The problem isn't Engram or "the other guys". They have other weapons. The problem is that they don't have an OL.
When Odell comes back and the offense still sucks  
allstarjim : 9/12/2017 7:32 pm : link
What will you say then?

Here's the deal, it's not the offensive line. Even when Eli had time, which he did have on plenty of occasions, the offense failed to make plays.

The one thing they could try is to commit to Orleans Darkwa and get a power running game going. They have to be a run-first team. It makes sense with the Giants' defense. Perhaps then they can hit stuff over the top. And with Shane Smith and Rhett Ellison in the fold, there's no reason not to try.

But, even if they do that, Eli has to play a lot better. He has to want it, and want it bad. He has to refuse to lose. Right now, he is a bad quarterback. He's bad when he gets protection, he's bad when he doesn't. The OL excuse is just that, an excuse. He has plenty of weapons, he needs to make this work. And if he can't, they need either him or McAdoo to go.
RE: When Odell comes back and the offense still sucks  
Triple "G" : 9/12/2017 7:40 pm : link
In comment 13596498 allstarjim said:
Quote:
What will you say then?

Here's the deal, it's not the offensive line. Even when Eli had time, which he did have on plenty of occasions, the offense failed to make plays.

The one thing they could try is to commit to Orleans Darkwa and get a power running game going. They have to be a run-first team. It makes sense with the Giants' defense. Perhaps then they can hit stuff over the top. And with Shane Smith and Rhett Ellison in the fold, there's no reason not to try.

But, even if they do that, Eli has to play a lot better. He has to want it, and want it bad. He has to refuse to lose. Right now, he is a bad quarterback. He's bad when he gets protection, he's bad when he doesn't. The OL excuse is just that, an excuse. He has plenty of weapons, he needs to make this work. And if he can't, they need either him or McAdoo to go.


Really? I'm not even gonna comment to this
odell  
riceneggs : 9/12/2017 8:05 pm : link
yea, we had odell last year and struggled to gain 20yards per drive

the obvious problem to me is that Eli is done. he cant process information anymore

WE WANT GENO
RE: They need Odell  
dpinzow : 9/12/2017 9:18 pm : link
In comment 13596374 Rflairr said:
Quote:
But I think Benjamin needs to consider removing himself from the play calling. He's part of the problem.

I bet if you looked back at the Drive Charts. And I could be wrong but I doubt it. The Giants didn't run 2 times in a row at all. Even when Perkins or Darkwa had nice gains.

He's a predictable play caller. And TC isn't around to keep in line.


Who's actually calling the plays...McAdoo or Sullivan? 2 years ago with TC as HC, McAdoo was calling the plays and we had a 26 ppg offense
RE: When Odell comes back and the offense still sucks  
dpinzow : 9/12/2017 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13596498 allstarjim said:
Quote:
What will you say then?

Here's the deal, it's not the offensive line. Even when Eli had time, which he did have on plenty of occasions, the offense failed to make plays.

The one thing they could try is to commit to Orleans Darkwa and get a power running game going. They have to be a run-first team. It makes sense with the Giants' defense. Perhaps then they can hit stuff over the top. And with Shane Smith and Rhett Ellison in the fold, there's no reason not to try.

But, even if they do that, Eli has to play a lot better. He has to want it, and want it bad. He has to refuse to lose. Right now, he is a bad quarterback. He's bad when he gets protection, he's bad when he doesn't. The OL excuse is just that, an excuse. He has plenty of weapons, he needs to make this work. And if he can't, they need either him or McAdoo to go.


100% agreed. The only way to possibly improve the confidence of that beleaguered OL is to get them to run downhill on DLs
This isn't basketball ....  
short lease : 9/12/2017 11:41 pm : link
Ex- Bulls - Jordan.

I don't think it is that simple. It should not come down to 1 guy .... It can't come down to 1 guy. Especially a receiver.

If a star, veteran, (and established team leader) QB - goes down that is 1 thing but, a receiver?

Yea I get what his presence would have down to Dallas's defense and how they would have cheated to his side (and opened up the rest of the field) but, that whole offense looked "BROKEN".
We would have lost with OBJ playing  
montanagiant : 9/13/2017 1:42 am : link
Without a doubt
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