problem. Before firing off at me, hear me out. I actually think some of what he has done on the field (one hand catch for a TD, taking a crappy slant and just beating guys to top speed and scoring) has actually given the Giants false hope or belief that they have a top flight offense. In reality, those are 100% individual accomplishments, not something the Offense was designed for or based off a great team scheme. You can't count on that stuff game in and game out. You can't win consistently in the NFL from the outside.
OBJ is basically deodorant over a need for a shower. Sooner or later the deodorant can't mask that smell. The Giants will be a pitiful offense because they believe they have the parts around the superstar engine. Problem is, that is not really true. OBJ makes some great plays, game changing plays. But, he alone can't change the way the offense is and cannot take over a game. This isn't a pitcher in baseball who can overcome poor defense by striking people out. Who can overcome a pathetic scoring offense by shutting out the opponent.
OBJ is never going to be the Force behind the success. He can be exploit it, take it up a notch but without an oline, a QB , running game going too, he will be a guy who makes some plays, looks really good at times but just can't win games by himself.
If we had a RB who could make holes for himself then we have a chance to overcome an oline issue. If we had a QB who can move well, run for first downs and escape pressure then we can overcome a poor line. If we had TE's who could block like tackles (other teams tackles, not like ours block) then we could overcome a poor line. A WR outside cannot overcome a poor line and immobile QB and no running game!
Their defense was putrid - instead of hanging them out to dry with the 'well, they only needed to get one stop' - when it was working they should have scored more.
A bad defense gave them ample opportunity. Here - a bad offense is shielded by a strong defense, giving them less opportunity - and hurting their metrics further.
And ironically - resulting in more wins. Go figure.
you're really struggling and your reasoning is flat out ridiculous. Face it, the offensive genius and his Chinese buffet menu aren't getting it done.
There's no struggling at all - Coughlin stubbornly lost games
because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
That - some bad clock management blunders, and an injury record that had gone on too far and too long - were the reasons he was dismissed.
McAdoo went out and won games last year that would have been lost otherwise because he played to the team's strength, the defense. That conservative approach meant smaller returns for the team's O.
The offense certainly has it's issues - and they're entirely on McAdoo, both as HC and with his responsibility for playcalling/offensive design. But let's not pretend that a part of the meager returns on O aren't due to the fact that the D is stronger now and has more of the burden put onto it to succeed. That's how it should be, given the amount of cap resources plied into the D - and how it should have been when the situation was reversed and the offense was the star of the show.
The defense gives the offense a short field, and chances are it's turned into a fg....
Obj takes a 5 yard catch to the house....
The Giants have a mistake free series....
The last one is the most important, because anyone who is a Giant fan, sees this team continuously shoot themselves in the foot, offensively.....a fumble, an interception, a dropped ball, poor execution of a play, bad play call, an injury(no depth), a penalty(motion, holding, and the proverbial delay of game), etc.
We all know the Giants don't have an adequate OL.....we all know they lack weapons.....we all know the Eli of 2011 is a distant memory.....
But you add lack of execution to the mix, and is there any doubt why this offense can't score 20 points in a game? And it takes it's ugly form in cycles throughout the season....one game it's the receivers.....one game it's the quarterback....one game it's the OL....many games it's a combination of the three.....
Best example, is the Green Bay Playoff game......the line played ok.....Eli looked like he was in a zone.....but the receivers dropped crucial balls, and an injury to DRC led to the Defenses' collapse....that Hail Mary would have had less of a chance with him back there.....
This offense basically has to play mistake free, for it too function....Why? Because our scoring drives take too many plays, because of too many short passes and lack of YAC....and the the more plays it takes to score, it's inevitable that one of the elements of the offense is going to screw up and end the drive...
I harped on all the games this team had played without scoring 20 points, since the end of last season......I thought OBj would play.....I mean, he was running in practice......since the injury happened he wasn't in a boot.....we thought he would play.....and even if he didn't, we had these new weapons.....We had plenty of time to create a game plan if OBj couldn't go.....We had Marshall.....Double E was going to embarrass LBers trying to cover him....we had TE's that could block plus a FB.....Perkins was going to run better with a football than Jennings could do with a Mirror Ball......we had Vereen back....SS was going to take that next step.....
Instead, our running game consisted of one 12 yard run, and nine runs for 18 yards(yes folks, even a second grader can figure that out it's 2 yds per, with the calculators they use)....
Marshall was none existent, in the sense that he should have stepped up his game with OBj out.....
Our TE's did not block well, and for some reason still do not chip block to help the Tackles....
Vereen looked slow, but he was the man in that last drive that took 3 completions to net a first down...
SS? Is it the Patterns he runs, or is it him, that makes 3rd down catches short of first downs, or the way he catches balls where he just does not get yards after the catch?
We fantasized an OBj impact from Double E and it didn't happen....
And Eli.....I have constantly defended the guy....yes, he made some great plays where he should have been sacked, and side stepped to freedom.....he had a high completion percentage......but he missed some big throws on third down, that he should have made.....
This offense goes as far as Eli can take them....I think he is frustrated with this offense.....why dink passes at the end of a game when you need two scores? To pad the stats?
There is no doubt he has lost confidence in his OL....a line that can't pass block without pressure, and a line that can't run block, WHEN IT HAS TO! Oh yes, you will get your occasional 12 yard burst by Darkwa or someone else....but for the most part, Eli will be looking at second and long or third and long after a failed run.....he does not have a Tiki, or Bradshaw, or Jacobs.....instead he has Perkins, Darkwa, Gallman, Vereen......
And what about OBj? He knows his stock has gone up after this game.....those new weapons are only useful, if he is out there and can provide a diversion, to get them into the flow of the offense......
Will that ankle take a little longer to heal, than normal? Will his agent take advantage of this situation and press Reese into a corner? We all know both sides are looking for that edge in contract negotiations, and this is a huge one for OBj and company, if he can't play on Monday, and this offense falls on it's face again....
And how about the defense? Think they won't get pissed, creating dissension between offense and defense, that they have to carry this team again this season? This is a good defense, not a great one, as some seem to think....Dak did not have a good game.....he missed some easy throws....if he was on, the bloodshed could have been worse....
It is up to Mac and Sullivan to come up with a better game plan, especially if OBj can't play or is limited....an 0-2 start going into Philly? It could get even more ugly around here....
I agree with almost everything you said.. The only thing I want to add is that every DL on the dallas team is far less talented and capable than the ones in Philly.. God I hope the Eagles don't kill Eli on that day.. I'll be happy if Eli survives that game..
RE: There's no struggling at all - Coughlin stubbornly lost games
because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
6 times we tied or took the lead on offense in the final two minutes
because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
I expected him to play to his strength - the offense.
I expected that he not be as conservative offensively, settle for field goals when he knew that a small margin wasn't going to be enough to win with a porous defense. He didn't.
I expected that clock be managed such that we spend as much time as possible when we had the ball, and not make that terrible defense spend any more time on the field than absolutely necessary. He didn't.
He was dealt an unfair hand to some extent, and he had his share of bad luck. But more often than not, he played not to lose, by the handbook, not putting enough pressure on the offense and hoping that the defense would come up with a stop that everyone knew wasn't coming.
RE: RE: RE: There's no struggling at all - Coughlin stubbornly lost games
because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
I expected him to play to his strength - the offense.
I expected that he not be as conservative offensively, settle for field goals when he knew that a small margin wasn't going to be enough to win with a porous defense. He didn't.
I expected that clock be managed such that we spend as much time as possible when we had the ball, and not make that terrible defense spend any more time on the field than absolutely necessary. He didn't.
He was dealt an unfair hand to some extent, and he had his share of bad luck. But more often than not, he played not to lose, by the handbook, not putting enough pressure on the offense and hoping that the defense would come up with a stop that everyone knew wasn't coming.
Again, the team was losing heading into the final 2 minutes of six games that we lost, and the offense came back to tie or take the lead in all of them.
You're perfect scenario is that he would have both run the clock out and have the offense score with no time left on the clock, but that's not realistic. You've got to score.
If he'd have try to simultaneously tried to run out the clock attempting to score, you'd be killing him wondering why were were running on 1st and/or 2nd down and the drive sputtering and us losing with our offense on the field while the other team was kneeling in victory.
That's a game where that putrid defense actually helped the team - and what good did it do them?
Quote:
The Cowboys won thanks to the Giants' terrible late-game decisions
27
Poor execution and even worse game management allowed the Giants to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory against the Cowboys.
That's a game where that putrid defense actually helped the team - and what good did it do them?
Quote:
The Cowboys won thanks to the Giants' terrible late-game decisions
27
Poor execution and even worse game management allowed the Giants to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory against the Cowboys.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/9/14/9321427/giants-cowboys-nfl-eli-manning-tony-romo-tom-coughlin - ( New Window )
Way too early. You are evaluating the offense based only on one game. What happened last year doesn't matter and the preseason is pretend so that doesn't matter either. Our streak of not scoring 20 points is really just at 1.
At least that is what I read here on BBI all pre-season.
RE: RE: RE: Again - 2015's offense should have had even better numbers
Their defense was putrid - instead of hanging them out to dry with the 'well, they only needed to get one stop' - when it was working they should have scored more.
A bad defense gave them ample opportunity. Here - a bad offense is shielded by a strong defense, giving them less opportunity - and hurting their metrics further.
And ironically - resulting in more wins. Go figure.
Defense wins, imagine the Giants had a d near this good for most of Eli's career? It is almost a tragic story how the Giants now have an elite Defense and the Offense cant score or even run the ball to keep TOP and give the D a rest.
Who do you think won those two SBs, the offense by itself?
Do you remember what offensive ranking the Patriots had offensively in 2007?
Don't kid yourself - the Giants had an excellent defense in both title runs, this wasn't just the Eli and Coughlin show.
Oh yes, particularly 2007 that D was legit and made huge stops. 2011 I felt the offense carried the squad more and the D would break down late. They picked up steam in the stretch run in '11 though. Can not win without good defenses.
My argument would be that the offense was by far the strength of the team for most seasons though. To me one of the flaws of the TC era was the inability to build a consistent year to year strong defense. Then there were years like 2009 and 2015 were the defense was horrific and helped tank the season.
I love good defense and prefer a football built with a stout playmaking D and power run game. I do think it is too bad that now it seems the Giants have an elite defensive unit and the Offense sucks royally.
RE: RE: Half the QBs in the league work behind offensive lines that are
either just as bad, or nearly as bad, as this one.
To continue beating this drum about the OL is getting absurd. Eli, at this point in his career, sucks. Am I saying he should be benched for Geno or Webb in week 2? Hell no. But I am saying that you could make a list of half the QBs in the league who could at least do SOMETHING with this offense. Ben Roethlesberger would've put up twenty points in Dallas last week, and Eli's been better than him for most of his career.
Now, I'm fully aware that the last time I said Eli sucks (10 years ago, right after the Viking game), the team went on to win a Super Bowl. And maybe that's part of the problem: Nobody wants to make the mistake of counting Eli out again. But he's almost forty, and this ineptitude has gone on far too long. If this shit doesn't change, it's time to have an open competition for starting QB in 2018.
Prepare to get slammed by blind Eli apologists who refuse to see that there is a real problem aside from the OL and RB. These people will say that you know nothing about how football works and spit out statements like 'even Brady couldn't operate behind this line.'
Maybe Eli is done. But,this team can not run and it can not consistently pass protect. I read somewhere once the Giants had 6 rushing TD'S the past two seasons combined. This O is pillow soft, it can not run the ball and has protection breakdowns on a consistent basis. The unit sucks.
RE: RE: There's no struggling at all - Coughlin stubbornly lost games
because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
Actually, trying to avoid putting the D out at the end of games is part of why TC was fired. Think the Jet game where he admitted he went for it on 4th late, a play resulting in an INT, because he was trying to put the game away due to Zero trust in the D.
Also, a team that must attempt the impossible of hiding their shit defend is not a good football team.
because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
Actually, trying to avoid putting the D out at the end of games is part of why TC was fired. Think the Jet game where he admitted he went for it on 4th late, a play resulting in an INT, because he was trying to put the game away due to Zero trust in the D.
Also, a team that must attempt the impossible of hiding their shit defend is not a good football team.
Like I said, damned if he did, damned if he didn't.
Their defense was putrid - instead of hanging them out to dry with the 'well, they only needed to get one stop' - when it was working they should have scored more.
A bad defense gave them ample opportunity. Here - a bad offense is shielded by a strong defense, giving them less opportunity - and hurting their metrics further.
And ironically - resulting in more wins. Go figure.
you're really struggling and your reasoning is flat out ridiculous. Face it, the offensive genius and his Chinese buffet menu aren't getting it done.
Totally irresponsible having this guy helm an offense...
From 2014
Quote:
The 2013 season picked up where the previous season left off on offense: offensively. The Bucs didn't even reach 20 points until Week 6, and with the exception of their Week 11 stomping of the Falcons, where the offense scored 34 points, the Bucs didn't score more than three touchdowns in a single game all season.
OBJ is basically deodorant over a need for a shower. Sooner or later the deodorant can't mask that smell. The Giants will be a pitiful offense because they believe they have the parts around the superstar engine. Problem is, that is not really true. OBJ makes some great plays, game changing plays. But, he alone can't change the way the offense is and cannot take over a game. This isn't a pitcher in baseball who can overcome poor defense by striking people out. Who can overcome a pathetic scoring offense by shutting out the opponent.
OBJ is never going to be the Force behind the success. He can be exploit it, take it up a notch but without an oline, a QB , running game going too, he will be a guy who makes some plays, looks really good at times but just can't win games by himself.
If we had a RB who could make holes for himself then we have a chance to overcome an oline issue. If we had a QB who can move well, run for first downs and escape pressure then we can overcome a poor line. If we had TE's who could block like tackles (other teams tackles, not like ours block) then we could overcome a poor line. A WR outside cannot overcome a poor line and immobile QB and no running game!
A bad defense gave them ample opportunity. Here - a bad offense is shielded by a strong defense, giving them less opportunity - and hurting their metrics further.
And ironically - resulting in more wins. Go figure.
That - some bad clock management blunders, and an injury record that had gone on too far and too long - were the reasons he was dismissed.
McAdoo went out and won games last year that would have been lost otherwise because he played to the team's strength, the defense. That conservative approach meant smaller returns for the team's O.
The offense certainly has it's issues - and they're entirely on McAdoo, both as HC and with his responsibility for playcalling/offensive design. But let's not pretend that a part of the meager returns on O aren't due to the fact that the D is stronger now and has more of the burden put onto it to succeed. That's how it should be, given the amount of cap resources plied into the D - and how it should have been when the situation was reversed and the offense was the star of the show.
The defense gives the offense a short field, and chances are it's turned into a fg....
Obj takes a 5 yard catch to the house....
The Giants have a mistake free series....
The last one is the most important, because anyone who is a Giant fan, sees this team continuously shoot themselves in the foot, offensively.....a fumble, an interception, a dropped ball, poor execution of a play, bad play call, an injury(no depth), a penalty(motion, holding, and the proverbial delay of game), etc.
We all know the Giants don't have an adequate OL.....we all know they lack weapons.....we all know the Eli of 2011 is a distant memory.....
But you add lack of execution to the mix, and is there any doubt why this offense can't score 20 points in a game? And it takes it's ugly form in cycles throughout the season....one game it's the receivers.....one game it's the quarterback....one game it's the OL....many games it's a combination of the three.....
Best example, is the Green Bay Playoff game......the line played ok.....Eli looked like he was in a zone.....but the receivers dropped crucial balls, and an injury to DRC led to the Defenses' collapse....that Hail Mary would have had less of a chance with him back there.....
This offense basically has to play mistake free, for it too function....Why? Because our scoring drives take too many plays, because of too many short passes and lack of YAC....and the the more plays it takes to score, it's inevitable that one of the elements of the offense is going to screw up and end the drive...
I harped on all the games this team had played without scoring 20 points, since the end of last season......I thought OBj would play.....I mean, he was running in practice......since the injury happened he wasn't in a boot.....we thought he would play.....and even if he didn't, we had these new weapons.....We had plenty of time to create a game plan if OBj couldn't go.....We had Marshall.....Double E was going to embarrass LBers trying to cover him....we had TE's that could block plus a FB.....Perkins was going to run better with a football than Jennings could do with a Mirror Ball......we had Vereen back....SS was going to take that next step.....
Instead, our running game consisted of one 12 yard run, and nine runs for 18 yards(yes folks, even a second grader can figure that out it's 2 yds per, with the calculators they use)....
Marshall was none existent, in the sense that he should have stepped up his game with OBj out.....
Our TE's did not block well, and for some reason still do not chip block to help the Tackles....
Vereen looked slow, but he was the man in that last drive that took 3 completions to net a first down...
SS? Is it the Patterns he runs, or is it him, that makes 3rd down catches short of first downs, or the way he catches balls where he just does not get yards after the catch?
We fantasized an OBj impact from Double E and it didn't happen....
And Eli.....I have constantly defended the guy....yes, he made some great plays where he should have been sacked, and side stepped to freedom.....he had a high completion percentage......but he missed some big throws on third down, that he should have made.....
This offense goes as far as Eli can take them....I think he is frustrated with this offense.....why dink passes at the end of a game when you need two scores? To pad the stats?
There is no doubt he has lost confidence in his OL....a line that can't pass block without pressure, and a line that can't run block, WHEN IT HAS TO! Oh yes, you will get your occasional 12 yard burst by Darkwa or someone else....but for the most part, Eli will be looking at second and long or third and long after a failed run.....he does not have a Tiki, or Bradshaw, or Jacobs.....instead he has Perkins, Darkwa, Gallman, Vereen......
And what about OBj? He knows his stock has gone up after this game.....those new weapons are only useful, if he is out there and can provide a diversion, to get them into the flow of the offense......
Will that ankle take a little longer to heal, than normal? Will his agent take advantage of this situation and press Reese into a corner? We all know both sides are looking for that edge in contract negotiations, and this is a huge one for OBj and company, if he can't play on Monday, and this offense falls on it's face again....
And how about the defense? Think they won't get pissed, creating dissension between offense and defense, that they have to carry this team again this season? This is a good defense, not a great one, as some seem to think....Dak did not have a good game.....he missed some easy throws....if he was on, the bloodshed could have been worse....
It is up to Mac and Sullivan to come up with a better game plan, especially if OBj can't play or is limited....an 0-2 start going into Philly? It could get even more ugly around here....
I agree with almost everything you said.. The only thing I want to add is that every DL on the dallas team is far less talented and capable than the ones in Philly.. God I hope the Eagles don't kill Eli on that day.. I'll be happy if Eli survives that game..
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
Quote:
because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
I expected him to play to his strength - the offense.
I expected that he not be as conservative offensively, settle for field goals when he knew that a small margin wasn't going to be enough to win with a porous defense. He didn't.
I expected that clock be managed such that we spend as much time as possible when we had the ball, and not make that terrible defense spend any more time on the field than absolutely necessary. He didn't.
He was dealt an unfair hand to some extent, and he had his share of bad luck. But more often than not, he played not to lose, by the handbook, not putting enough pressure on the offense and hoping that the defense would come up with a stop that everyone knew wasn't coming.
Quote:
In comment 13597022 jcn56 said:
Quote:
because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
I expected him to play to his strength - the offense.
I expected that he not be as conservative offensively, settle for field goals when he knew that a small margin wasn't going to be enough to win with a porous defense. He didn't.
I expected that clock be managed such that we spend as much time as possible when we had the ball, and not make that terrible defense spend any more time on the field than absolutely necessary. He didn't.
He was dealt an unfair hand to some extent, and he had his share of bad luck. But more often than not, he played not to lose, by the handbook, not putting enough pressure on the offense and hoping that the defense would come up with a stop that everyone knew wasn't coming.
Again, the team was losing heading into the final 2 minutes of six games that we lost, and the offense came back to tie or take the lead in all of them.
You're perfect scenario is that he would have both run the clock out and have the offense score with no time left on the clock, but that's not realistic. You've got to score.
If he'd have try to simultaneously tried to run out the clock attempting to score, you'd be killing him wondering why were were running on 1st and/or 2nd down and the drive sputtering and us losing with our offense on the field while the other team was kneeling in victory.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Whatever, what's done is done.
27
Poor execution and even worse game management allowed the Giants to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory against the Cowboys.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/9/14/9321427/giants-cowboys-nfl-eli-manning-tony-romo-tom-coughlin - ( New Window )
Quote:
The Cowboys won thanks to the Giants' terrible late-game decisions
27
Poor execution and even worse game management allowed the Giants to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory against the Cowboys.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/9/14/9321427/giants-cowboys-nfl-eli-manning-tony-romo-tom-coughlin - ( New Window )
That was a bad decision, and yes I remember it.
Way too early. You are evaluating the offense based only on one game. What happened last year doesn't matter and the preseason is pretend so that doesn't matter either. Our streak of not scoring 20 points is really just at 1.
At least that is what I read here on BBI all pre-season.
Quote:
In comment 13596912 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Their defense was putrid - instead of hanging them out to dry with the 'well, they only needed to get one stop' - when it was working they should have scored more.
A bad defense gave them ample opportunity. Here - a bad offense is shielded by a strong defense, giving them less opportunity - and hurting their metrics further.
And ironically - resulting in more wins. Go figure.
Defense wins, imagine the Giants had a d near this good for most of Eli's career? It is almost a tragic story how the Giants now have an elite Defense and the Offense cant score or even run the ball to keep TOP and give the D a rest.
Who do you think won those two SBs, the offense by itself?
Do you remember what offensive ranking the Patriots had offensively in 2007?
Don't kid yourself - the Giants had an excellent defense in both title runs, this wasn't just the Eli and Coughlin show.
Oh yes, particularly 2007 that D was legit and made huge stops. 2011 I felt the offense carried the squad more and the D would break down late. They picked up steam in the stretch run in '11 though. Can not win without good defenses.
My argument would be that the offense was by far the strength of the team for most seasons though. To me one of the flaws of the TC era was the inability to build a consistent year to year strong defense. Then there were years like 2009 and 2015 were the defense was horrific and helped tank the season.
I love good defense and prefer a football built with a stout playmaking D and power run game. I do think it is too bad that now it seems the Giants have an elite defensive unit and the Offense sucks royally.
Quote:
either just as bad, or nearly as bad, as this one.
To continue beating this drum about the OL is getting absurd. Eli, at this point in his career, sucks. Am I saying he should be benched for Geno or Webb in week 2? Hell no. But I am saying that you could make a list of half the QBs in the league who could at least do SOMETHING with this offense. Ben Roethlesberger would've put up twenty points in Dallas last week, and Eli's been better than him for most of his career.
Now, I'm fully aware that the last time I said Eli sucks (10 years ago, right after the Viking game), the team went on to win a Super Bowl. And maybe that's part of the problem: Nobody wants to make the mistake of counting Eli out again. But he's almost forty, and this ineptitude has gone on far too long. If this shit doesn't change, it's time to have an open competition for starting QB in 2018.
Prepare to get slammed by blind Eli apologists who refuse to see that there is a real problem aside from the OL and RB. These people will say that you know nothing about how football works and spit out statements like 'even Brady couldn't operate behind this line.'
Maybe Eli is done. But,this team can not run and it can not consistently pass protect. I read somewhere once the Giants had 6 rushing TD'S the past two seasons combined. This O is pillow soft, it can not run the ball and has protection breakdowns on a consistent basis. The unit sucks.
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because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
Actually, trying to avoid putting the D out at the end of games is part of why TC was fired. Think the Jet game where he admitted he went for it on 4th late, a play resulting in an INT, because he was trying to put the game away due to Zero trust in the D.
Also, a team that must attempt the impossible of hiding their shit defend is not a good football team.
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In comment 13597022 jcn56 said:
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because he flat out refused to admit his defense wasn't good enough to get stops. He just kept putting them out there at the end of games, with the same results.
In 2015 the Giants had the lead or were tied in the final 2 minutes of the game like 6 times!
What was he supposed to do? You say he "stubbornly" trotted them out to lose games.
Are you serious? We needed to score to tie or take the lead on offense, we weren't able to run the clock out, we needed to score! Mainly because the defense had been so sorry all game were were always trying to keep pace.
I don't know what you expected the guy to do.
Actually, trying to avoid putting the D out at the end of games is part of why TC was fired. Think the Jet game where he admitted he went for it on 4th late, a play resulting in an INT, because he was trying to put the game away due to Zero trust in the D.
Also, a team that must attempt the impossible of hiding their shit defend is not a good football team.
Like I said, damned if he did, damned if he didn't.
Hope it gets fixed. I'm losing confidence game by game.
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Their defense was putrid - instead of hanging them out to dry with the 'well, they only needed to get one stop' - when it was working they should have scored more.
A bad defense gave them ample opportunity. Here - a bad offense is shielded by a strong defense, giving them less opportunity - and hurting their metrics further.
And ironically - resulting in more wins. Go figure.
you're really struggling and your reasoning is flat out ridiculous. Face it, the offensive genius and his Chinese buffet menu aren't getting it done.
They have menus at Chinese buffets?
From 2014
Repetitive, archaic and stubborn: a look back at Mike Sullivan and his offense - ( New Window )