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Geoff Schwartz's take -

I Love Clams Casino : 9/13/2017 9:07 am
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nothing  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/13/2017 9:07 am : link
he said was terribly disagreeable, but Schwartz rubs me the wrong way for some reason.
Maybe the reason is because he's a much better talker  
jcn56 : 9/13/2017 9:09 am : link
than he was a football player for the duration that he was here?
Somebody ask Geoff  
averagejoe : 9/13/2017 9:13 am : link
if he is still spending the money he stole from the Giants.
Basically says  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/13/2017 9:13 am : link
Flowers has technique issues. Same thing we've been hearing for 3 years now. This kids needs to improve fast or he's going to send Eli to an early retirement.
When you were supposed to be a solution  
Justlurking : 9/13/2017 9:24 am : link
then compounded the problem, you should sit this one out.

RE: nothing  
Beer Man : 9/13/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13596887 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
he said was terribly disagreeable, but Schwartz rubs me the wrong way for some reason.
Same here. He took a lot of the Giants money, and gave nothing in return.
3 years and Flowers  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/13/2017 9:32 am : link
still has the same issues.

Can't believe we drafted a right guard 9th overall.
RE: nothing  
Carson53 : 9/13/2017 9:32 am : link
In comment 13596887 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
he said was terribly disagreeable, but Schwartz rubs me the wrong way for some reason.
.

I read it already, so I ignored the link...
Does he work for any local affiliates in the NYC area?
I had heard he works for Sirius radio?
The excuses about age when it  
jvm52106 : 9/13/2017 9:42 am : link
comes to Flowers need to end. He is a poor LT and was not worth the high selection. I didn't like the pick then, don't like it now and all this stuff of he is a kid, he will get better is BS. He plays in a way that negates his one/two strengths, which is size/strength.

For a guy that has size, supposed strength, and the legend  
Doomster : 9/13/2017 9:54 am : link
of a mean streak, when was the last time you saw this guy attack anyone while pass blocking? How do you stop someone in his tracks while back pedaling? Did anyone see what Collins, a second year lineman, playing out of position(playing RT for the first time), did to JPP?
RE: For a guy that has size, supposed strength, and the legend  
jcn56 : 9/13/2017 10:02 am : link
In comment 13596996 Doomster said:
Quote:
of a mean streak, when was the last time you saw this guy attack anyone while pass blocking? How do you stop someone in his tracks while back pedaling? Did anyone see what Collins, a second year lineman, playing out of position(playing RT for the first time), did to JPP?


Collins was slated to go in roughly the same range in the draft as Flowers. And he got away with a shit ton of holding against JPP, getting flagged only once despite dragging him to the ground from behind numerous times.

Flowers' problem isn't his strength - you see it on plays where there isn't pressure, sometimes he ragdolls his guy. The problem is his technique - and that's a huge issue because it typically results in almost immediate pressure.

Whether he's better suited for an interior line position or RT is a different story, but even the Giants made it clear that he wasn't necessarily guaranteed the LT spot when they went looking in FA, and my guess is he gets moved after this season (or during, if they have a better option made available).
Fuk Geoff Schwartz  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/13/2017 10:04 am : link
You couldn't believe a word he said when he was here -- and I see no reason to believe anything he says now - not to mention how useless he was as an offensive lineman
RE: The excuses about age when it  
The_Boss : 9/13/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13596970 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
comes to Flowers need to end. He is a poor LT and was not worth the high selection. I didn't like the pick then, don't like it now and all this stuff of he is a kid, he will get better is BS. He plays in a way that negates his one/two strengths, which is size/strength.


thank you
Schwartz has been fantastic at what he does now.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/13/2017 10:23 am : link
Separate the player from the writer.
RE: RE: For a guy that has size, supposed strength, and the legend  
HomerJones45 : 9/13/2017 10:26 am : link
In comment 13597014 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13596996 Doomster said:


Quote:


of a mean streak, when was the last time you saw this guy attack anyone while pass blocking? How do you stop someone in his tracks while back pedaling? Did anyone see what Collins, a second year lineman, playing out of position(playing RT for the first time), did to JPP?



Collins was slated to go in roughly the same range in the draft as Flowers. And he got away with a shit ton of holding against JPP, getting flagged only once despite dragging him to the ground from behind numerous times.

Flowers' problem isn't his strength - you see it on plays where there isn't pressure, sometimes he ragdolls his guy. The problem is his technique - and that's a huge issue because it typically results in almost immediate pressure.

Whether he's better suited for an interior line position or RT is a different story, but even the Giants made it clear that he wasn't necessarily guaranteed the LT spot when they went looking in FA, and my guess is he gets moved after this season (or during, if they have a better option made available).
How many flags did Collins get? Flowers doesn't stay with his man long enough to hold anyone. His technique issues were well known and a red flag after several seasons at a major college program- you can look at his draft report on-line; he's still having the same problems. Another Jerry miss.
Flowers needs to play at guard  
Since1965 : 9/13/2017 10:34 am : link
Lacks the quickness for tackle.
RE: nothing  
djstat : 9/13/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13596887 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
he said was terribly disagreeable, but Schwartz rubs me the wrong way for some reason.
Probably because e came here and was a HUGE disappointment
Why does he like Jerry so much?  
PatersonPlank : 9/13/2017 11:21 am : link
Very neutral on Hart, and anti-Flowers. Also I don't get the size issue with Jones, isn't he basically the same size as Pugh? Does a few inches mean that much, their weights are the same.
Schwartz  
siena16 : 9/13/2017 12:50 pm : link
Schwartz spent his whole Giant Career in the training room but his perspective and evaluation of Flowers is accurate.
Schwartz is absolutely right...  
Triple "G" : 9/13/2017 1:06 pm : link
In his rookie year I gave Flowers a pass and I actually thought he did ok given the circumstances. I did however tell my brother if they thrust this kid into the Starting LT spot as a rookie before he is ready he is going to get ruined.

Well low an behold they did and YES it ruined him. He had BAD Technique coming into this league, you could see he was working on that his rookie season. As the season progressed his technique got WORSE. IMO he was trying to compensate for the speed at which the game is played at this level and his lack of experience.

His second season was a HUGE SETBACK, he was worse in his second season than his rookie season. The compensating he was doing in his rookie season was exacerbated in his 2nd, he had more expectations put on him and his BAD TECHNIQUE and his compensating have now become part of his game. It is now HABITS and BAD HABITS at that. He now has those habits built into muscle memory and when that happens it is next to impossible to stop. Eric Flowers is now the player he is going to be for the rest of his career. Unless they move him to another position and he has to re-learn that position.

Eric Flowers is ruined, Reese basically gave this kid NO CHANCE to get used to the game at this level playing guard or even RT. He thrust him into LT his rookie season, he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better, and has all but destroyed the career of a young up and coming premier Offensive LT, he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league. He was however forced to play IMO the second most important position in the Offense, had to think about WOW I'm protecting the blind side of a 100 million dollar QB. QB's careers have ended because a LT made a mistake. That is a lot of pressure to put on a young player that has never taken a snap at this level.

You want to blame Flowers? Well look at what has transpired with him and I think every bit of Blame ggoes on REESE
RE: Somebody ask Geoff  
widmerseyebrow : 9/13/2017 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13596898 averagejoe said:
Quote:
if he is still spending the money he stole from the Giants.


He didn't steal anything. He was the exact same player he was before he arrived in New York: injury prone and below average to average when healthy. Not his fault our FO likes to throw money at marginal offensive lineman.
RE: Schwartz is absolutely right...  
T-Bone : 9/13/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13597340 Triple "G" said:
Quote:
In his rookie year I gave Flowers a pass and I actually thought he did ok given the circumstances. I did however tell my brother if they thrust this kid into the Starting LT spot as a rookie before he is ready he is going to get ruined.

Well low an behold they did and YES it ruined him. He had BAD Technique coming into this league, you could see he was working on that his rookie season. As the season progressed his technique got WORSE. IMO he was trying to compensate for the speed at which the game is played at this level and his lack of experience.

His second season was a HUGE SETBACK, he was worse in his second season than his rookie season. The compensating he was doing in his rookie season was exacerbated in his 2nd, he had more expectations put on him and his BAD TECHNIQUE and his compensating have now become part of his game. It is now HABITS and BAD HABITS at that. He now has those habits built into muscle memory and when that happens it is next to impossible to stop. Eric Flowers is now the player he is going to be for the rest of his career. Unless they move him to another position and he has to re-learn that position.

Eric Flowers is ruined, Reese basically gave this kid NO CHANCE to get used to the game at this level playing guard or even RT. He thrust him into LT his rookie season, he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better, and has all but destroyed the career of a young up and coming premier Offensive LT, he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league. He was however forced to play IMO the second most important position in the Offense, had to think about WOW I'm protecting the blind side of a 100 million dollar QB. QB's careers have ended because a LT made a mistake. That is a lot of pressure to put on a young player that has never taken a snap at this level.

You want to blame Flowers? Well look at what has transpired with him and I think every bit of Blame ggoes on REESE


Yeah... it's Reese's fault that Flowers has been the starting LT for the past few years. I'm sure the coach had no say in the decision.

It's posts like this one....
RE: RE: Schwartz is absolutely right...  
Triple "G" : 9/13/2017 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13597380 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13597340 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In his rookie year I gave Flowers a pass and I actually thought he did ok given the circumstances. I did however tell my brother if they thrust this kid into the Starting LT spot as a rookie before he is ready he is going to get ruined.

Well low an behold they did and YES it ruined him. He had BAD Technique coming into this league, you could see he was working on that his rookie season. As the season progressed his technique got WORSE. IMO he was trying to compensate for the speed at which the game is played at this level and his lack of experience.

His second season was a HUGE SETBACK, he was worse in his second season than his rookie season. The compensating he was doing in his rookie season was exacerbated in his 2nd, he had more expectations put on him and his BAD TECHNIQUE and his compensating have now become part of his game. It is now HABITS and BAD HABITS at that. He now has those habits built into muscle memory and when that happens it is next to impossible to stop. Eric Flowers is now the player he is going to be for the rest of his career. Unless they move him to another position and he has to re-learn that position.

Eric Flowers is ruined, Reese basically gave this kid NO CHANCE to get used to the game at this level playing guard or even RT. He thrust him into LT his rookie season, he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better, and has all but destroyed the career of a young up and coming premier Offensive LT, he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league. He was however forced to play IMO the second most important position in the Offense, had to think about WOW I'm protecting the blind side of a 100 million dollar QB. QB's careers have ended because a LT made a mistake. That is a lot of pressure to put on a young player that has never taken a snap at this level.

You want to blame Flowers? Well look at what has transpired with him and I think every bit of Blame ggoes on REESE



Yeah... it's Reese's fault that Flowers has been the starting LT for the past few years. I'm sure the coach had no say in the decision.

It's posts like this one....


The coach has had NO OTHER PLAYER BROUGHT IN TO REPLACE WITH FLOWERS. Reese signs the players Where pleas tell me WHERE has he signed a LT to compete with Flowers.

Nuff Said
RE: RE: RE: Schwartz is absolutely right...  
Triple "G" : 9/13/2017 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13597449 Triple "G" said:
Quote:
In comment 13597380 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13597340 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In his rookie year I gave Flowers a pass and I actually thought he did ok given the circumstances. I did however tell my brother if they thrust this kid into the Starting LT spot as a rookie before he is ready he is going to get ruined.

Well low an behold they did and YES it ruined him. He had BAD Technique coming into this league, you could see he was working on that his rookie season. As the season progressed his technique got WORSE. IMO he was trying to compensate for the speed at which the game is played at this level and his lack of experience.

His second season was a HUGE SETBACK, he was worse in his second season than his rookie season. The compensating he was doing in his rookie season was exacerbated in his 2nd, he had more expectations put on him and his BAD TECHNIQUE and his compensating have now become part of his game. It is now HABITS and BAD HABITS at that. He now has those habits built into muscle memory and when that happens it is next to impossible to stop. Eric Flowers is now the player he is going to be for the rest of his career. Unless they move him to another position and he has to re-learn that position.

Eric Flowers is ruined, Reese basically gave this kid NO CHANCE to get used to the game at this level playing guard or even RT. He thrust him into LT his rookie season, he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better, and has all but destroyed the career of a young up and coming premier Offensive LT, he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league. He was however forced to play IMO the second most important position in the Offense, had to think about WOW I'm protecting the blind side of a 100 million dollar QB. QB's careers have ended because a LT made a mistake. That is a lot of pressure to put on a young player that has never taken a snap at this level.

You want to blame Flowers? Well look at what has transpired with him and I think every bit of Blame ggoes on REESE



Yeah... it's Reese's fault that Flowers has been the starting LT for the past few years. I'm sure the coach had no say in the decision.

It's posts like this one....



The coach has had NO OTHER PLAYER BROUGHT IN TO REPLACE WITH FLOWERS. Reese signs the players Where pleas tell me WHERE has he signed a LT to compete with Flowers.

Nuff Said


And YES it is posts like yours.... Wow talk about excuses for Reese WOW
RE: RE: RE: Schwartz is absolutely right...  
T-Bone : 9/13/2017 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13597449 Triple "G" said:
Quote:
In comment 13597380 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13597340 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In his rookie year I gave Flowers a pass and I actually thought he did ok given the circumstances. I did however tell my brother if they thrust this kid into the Starting LT spot as a rookie before he is ready he is going to get ruined.

Well low an behold they did and YES it ruined him. He had BAD Technique coming into this league, you could see he was working on that his rookie season. As the season progressed his technique got WORSE. IMO he was trying to compensate for the speed at which the game is played at this level and his lack of experience.

His second season was a HUGE SETBACK, he was worse in his second season than his rookie season. The compensating he was doing in his rookie season was exacerbated in his 2nd, he had more expectations put on him and his BAD TECHNIQUE and his compensating have now become part of his game. It is now HABITS and BAD HABITS at that. He now has those habits built into muscle memory and when that happens it is next to impossible to stop. Eric Flowers is now the player he is going to be for the rest of his career. Unless they move him to another position and he has to re-learn that position.

Eric Flowers is ruined, Reese basically gave this kid NO CHANCE to get used to the game at this level playing guard or even RT. He thrust him into LT his rookie season, he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better, and has all but destroyed the career of a young up and coming premier Offensive LT, he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league. He was however forced to play IMO the second most important position in the Offense, had to think about WOW I'm protecting the blind side of a 100 million dollar QB. QB's careers have ended because a LT made a mistake. That is a lot of pressure to put on a young player that has never taken a snap at this level.

You want to blame Flowers? Well look at what has transpired with him and I think every bit of Blame ggoes on REESE



Yeah... it's Reese's fault that Flowers has been the starting LT for the past few years. I'm sure the coach had no say in the decision.

It's posts like this one....



The coach has had NO OTHER PLAYER BROUGHT IN TO REPLACE WITH FLOWERS. Reese signs the players Where pleas tell me WHERE has he signed a LT to compete with Flowers.

Nuff Said


And you don't think the coach has any input on what players are brought in?

And how exactly is Reese not bringing any players in to replace Flowers supposed to 'help' Flowers?
Schwartz is a legitimate expert on O-line technique  
81_Great_Dane : 9/13/2017 2:29 pm : link
and I'm not, so I'm not going to argue with him. He's been down on Flowers' technique from the beginning, and if he says he doesn't see any change, I believe him. So that's a problem.

But: The narrative around the Giants is their O-line is awful, they haven't addressed it and it's their biggest problem going forward. Whether that's entirely true or not, there's confirmation bias at work in the media and the fans. People expect to see O-line problems, so they do. I'm not sure that O-line problems account for everything we saw on Sunday night. How much of this is on Eli? On the running backs? On the receivers? On the coaches?
He is not  
WideRight : 9/13/2017 2:37 pm : link
He doesn't say anything other than the obvious. He's a blow hard who failed and will likely fail his way through life
Still prefer him to Tiki  
Jay in Toronto : 9/13/2017 2:51 pm : link
who was awesome as a player but a douchebag as an analyst/commentator.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Schwartz is absolutely right...  
Triple "G" : 9/13/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13597467 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13597449 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In comment 13597380 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13597340 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In his rookie year I gave Flowers a pass and I actually thought he did ok given the circumstances. I did however tell my brother if they thrust this kid into the Starting LT spot as a rookie before he is ready he is going to get ruined.

Well low an behold they did and YES it ruined him. He had BAD Technique coming into this league, you could see he was working on that his rookie season. As the season progressed his technique got WORSE. IMO he was trying to compensate for the speed at which the game is played at this level and his lack of experience.

His second season was a HUGE SETBACK, he was worse in his second season than his rookie season. The compensating he was doing in his rookie season was exacerbated in his 2nd, he had more expectations put on him and his BAD TECHNIQUE and his compensating have now become part of his game. It is now HABITS and BAD HABITS at that. He now has those habits built into muscle memory and when that happens it is next to impossible to stop. Eric Flowers is now the player he is going to be for the rest of his career. Unless they move him to another position and he has to re-learn that position.

Eric Flowers is ruined, Reese basically gave this kid NO CHANCE to get used to the game at this level playing guard or even RT. He thrust him into LT his rookie season, he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better, and has all but destroyed the career of a young up and coming premier Offensive LT, he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league. He was however forced to play IMO the second most important position in the Offense, had to think about WOW I'm protecting the blind side of a 100 million dollar QB. QB's careers have ended because a LT made a mistake. That is a lot of pressure to put on a young player that has never taken a snap at this level.

You want to blame Flowers? Well look at what has transpired with him and I think every bit of Blame ggoes on REESE



Yeah... it's Reese's fault that Flowers has been the starting LT for the past few years. I'm sure the coach had no say in the decision.

It's posts like this one....



The coach has had NO OTHER PLAYER BROUGHT IN TO REPLACE WITH FLOWERS. Reese signs the players Where pleas tell me WHERE has he signed a LT to compete with Flowers.

Nuff Said



And you don't think the coach has any input on what players are brought in?

And how exactly is Reese not bringing any players in to replace Flowers supposed to 'help' Flowers?


So now the HC signs FA WOW you are truly clueless. Dude where is the real world does the HC interview and sign FA's please tell me because you seem to know way more about this subject than anyone else in the football world. C'mon I want to see which team allows the HC to sign players and work out contracts. Man talk about fishing for an excuse this one gets the Golden Trophy award for an excuse
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Schwartz is absolutely right...  
T-Bone : 9/13/2017 4:02 pm : link
In comment 13597557 Triple "G" said:
Quote:
In comment 13597467 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13597449 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In comment 13597380 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13597340 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In his rookie year I gave Flowers a pass and I actually thought he did ok given the circumstances. I did however tell my brother if they thrust this kid into the Starting LT spot as a rookie before he is ready he is going to get ruined.

Well low an behold they did and YES it ruined him. He had BAD Technique coming into this league, you could see he was working on that his rookie season. As the season progressed his technique got WORSE. IMO he was trying to compensate for the speed at which the game is played at this level and his lack of experience.

His second season was a HUGE SETBACK, he was worse in his second season than his rookie season. The compensating he was doing in his rookie season was exacerbated in his 2nd, he had more expectations put on him and his BAD TECHNIQUE and his compensating have now become part of his game. It is now HABITS and BAD HABITS at that. He now has those habits built into muscle memory and when that happens it is next to impossible to stop. Eric Flowers is now the player he is going to be for the rest of his career. Unless they move him to another position and he has to re-learn that position.

Eric Flowers is ruined, Reese basically gave this kid NO CHANCE to get used to the game at this level playing guard or even RT. He thrust him into LT his rookie season, he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better, and has all but destroyed the career of a young up and coming premier Offensive LT, he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league. He was however forced to play IMO the second most important position in the Offense, had to think about WOW I'm protecting the blind side of a 100 million dollar QB. QB's careers have ended because a LT made a mistake. That is a lot of pressure to put on a young player that has never taken a snap at this level.

You want to blame Flowers? Well look at what has transpired with him and I think every bit of Blame ggoes on REESE



Yeah... it's Reese's fault that Flowers has been the starting LT for the past few years. I'm sure the coach had no say in the decision.

It's posts like this one....



The coach has had NO OTHER PLAYER BROUGHT IN TO REPLACE WITH FLOWERS. Reese signs the players Where pleas tell me WHERE has he signed a LT to compete with Flowers.

Nuff Said



And you don't think the coach has any input on what players are brought in?

And how exactly is Reese not bringing any players in to replace Flowers supposed to 'help' Flowers?



So now the HC signs FA WOW you are truly clueless. Dude where is the real world does the HC interview and sign FA's please tell me because you seem to know way more about this subject than anyone else in the football world. C'mon I want to see which team allows the HC to sign players and work out contracts. Man talk about fishing for an excuse this one gets the Golden Trophy award for an excuse


I didn't say he alone signs them... I'd be willing to bet they work TOGETHER to figure out who to sign and who not to sign. I very much doubt Reese just signs a player and says 'Here Coach... make it work.'. Neither I nor anyone else needs to know too much about the 'football world' in order to know this.

My problem with your post is you saying this like:

Quote:
He thrust him into LT his rookie season...


Quote:
...he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league.


About the only thing you said that you CAN put on Reese is what you said here:

Quote:
...he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better...


But even with that, again, I very much doubt Reese signs anyone without input from his coach. You want to believe something different, feel free... but you'd be wrong.

There are some things that certainly can be laid IN PART at Reese's feet... but unlike what you think, Reese doesn't make these decisions all by himself with no input from the Coach. It's really that simple.
Basically what I'm saying is...  
T-Bone : 9/13/2017 4:13 pm : link
Reese has nothing to do with who plays and who doesn't. That's a HC's decision. To pin blame on Reese because of how often Flowers has played up until this point is silly and unfair. There are certainly things you can criticize Reese for... but how often a player plays isn't one of them.

I apologize for the snarky comment earlier. I wasn't in a good mood because I'd just side-swipped my car during my lunch break against a pillar in a parking garage and I was pissed and even though I think you're dead wrong pinning the blame for how much Flowers has played... and his development (or lack there of) on Reese, my comment was uncalled for.
This discussion conveniently "forgets" Will Beatty  
Bob in Newburgh : 9/13/2017 4:30 pm : link
Never a great, but a serviceable LT.

He was Plan A at LT.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Schwartz is absolutely right...  
Triple "G" : 9/13/2017 6:08 pm : link
In comment 13597700 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13597557 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In comment 13597467 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13597449 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In comment 13597380 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13597340 Triple "G" said:


Quote:


In his rookie year I gave Flowers a pass and I actually thought he did ok given the circumstances. I did however tell my brother if they thrust this kid into the Starting LT spot as a rookie before he is ready he is going to get ruined.

Well low an behold they did and YES it ruined him. He had BAD Technique coming into this league, you could see he was working on that his rookie season. As the season progressed his technique got WORSE. IMO he was trying to compensate for the speed at which the game is played at this level and his lack of experience.

His second season was a HUGE SETBACK, he was worse in his second season than his rookie season. The compensating he was doing in his rookie season was exacerbated in his 2nd, he had more expectations put on him and his BAD TECHNIQUE and his compensating have now become part of his game. It is now HABITS and BAD HABITS at that. He now has those habits built into muscle memory and when that happens it is next to impossible to stop. Eric Flowers is now the player he is going to be for the rest of his career. Unless they move him to another position and he has to re-learn that position.

Eric Flowers is ruined, Reese basically gave this kid NO CHANCE to get used to the game at this level playing guard or even RT. He thrust him into LT his rookie season, he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better, and has all but destroyed the career of a young up and coming premier Offensive LT, he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league. He was however forced to play IMO the second most important position in the Offense, had to think about WOW I'm protecting the blind side of a 100 million dollar QB. QB's careers have ended because a LT made a mistake. That is a lot of pressure to put on a young player that has never taken a snap at this level.

You want to blame Flowers? Well look at what has transpired with him and I think every bit of Blame ggoes on REESE



Yeah... it's Reese's fault that Flowers has been the starting LT for the past few years. I'm sure the coach had no say in the decision.

It's posts like this one....



The coach has had NO OTHER PLAYER BROUGHT IN TO REPLACE WITH FLOWERS. Reese signs the players Where pleas tell me WHERE has he signed a LT to compete with Flowers.

Nuff Said



And you don't think the coach has any input on what players are brought in?

And how exactly is Reese not bringing any players in to replace Flowers supposed to 'help' Flowers?



So now the HC signs FA WOW you are truly clueless. Dude where is the real world does the HC interview and sign FA's please tell me because you seem to know way more about this subject than anyone else in the football world. C'mon I want to see which team allows the HC to sign players and work out contracts. Man talk about fishing for an excuse this one gets the Golden Trophy award for an excuse



I didn't say he alone signs them... I'd be willing to bet they work TOGETHER to figure out who to sign and who not to sign. I very much doubt Reese just signs a player and says 'Here Coach... make it work.'. Neither I nor anyone else needs to know too much about the 'football world' in order to know this.

My problem with your post is you saying this like:



Quote:


He thrust him into LT his rookie season...





Quote:


...he was never groomed, he was never given a chance to grow in this league.



About the only thing you said that you CAN put on Reese is what you said here:



Quote:


...he yet to bring in any competition to either help him or push him to be better...



But even with that, again, I very much doubt Reese signs anyone without input from his coach. You want to believe something different, feel free... but you'd be wrong.

There are some things that certainly can be laid IN PART at Reese's feet... but unlike what you think, Reese doesn't make these decisions all by himself with no input from the Coach. It's really that simple.


LOL You really don't have any idea about this do you. What your saying is that Reese talked it over with at first Coughlin and Now McAdoo and they both told Reese "DO NOT SIGN ANY FA LT BECAUSE ERIc FLOWERS IS TEH MAN" we don't need any competition or even help at the LT position. This is what your saying? Really? Clueless if you actually believe that.
The guy didn't play because he broke an ankle  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/13/2017 6:30 pm : link
And then a leg while under contract.

Lunatics.
And you think  
T-Bone : 9/13/2017 6:47 pm : link
Reese just signs whoever he wants with no input from his coaches?

Ok. I think we're done. Can't argue with that logic.
RE: And you think  
adamg : 9/13/2017 7:04 pm : link
In comment 13597974 T-Bone said:
Quote:
Reese just signs whoever he wants with no input from his coaches?

Ok. I think we're done. Can't argue with that logic.


Reese even admitted they considered whether Flowers was the OLT this past offseason. Evidently, McAdoo has some faith in the kid. I think Schwartz has worse sour grapes than Kurt Warner at this point.
Schwatrz  
Marty866b : 9/13/2017 7:05 pm : link
His analysis of the o-line is spot on even if you think "he stole the Giants money". Flowers is a bust. It is time to move on. I doubt he can play any o-line position at a high level. His hands and technique are not NFL caliber. If he wasn't picked 9th in the entire draft he most likely would be on the practice squad. I would try Wheeler who lacks strength today for the position but has good feet and technique. He,IMO,would do a better job. Who to replace the other tackle who says he's the best in the game? There isn't anybody. Reese did not address the position.
The GM works with the coaches and scouts  
djm : 9/13/2017 7:09 pm : link
It's not all on Reese just like it wasn't all on accorsi and young before him.

I have a hard time believing that mcadoo has been begging mgmt for OL help the last two years only to have his words go ignored.

Whatever just fucking win a game this Monday and make this shit stained week of over the top criticism and hyper alalysis disappear.

Just a brutal response by everyone. And I fully admit I'm concerned but my goodness these last few days have been absurd.
Analysis  
djm : 9/13/2017 7:10 pm : link
Not alaysis. Wtf is alaysis??? Fuck my phone.
RE: The GM works with the coaches and scouts  
T-Bone : 9/13/2017 7:32 pm : link
In comment 13597997 djm said:
Quote:
It's not all on Reese just like it wasn't all on accorsi and young before him.

I have a hard time believing that mcadoo has been begging mgmt for OL help the last two years only to have his words go ignored.

Whatever just fucking win a game this Monday and make this shit stained week of over the top criticism and hyper alalysis disappear.

Just a brutal response by everyone. And I fully admit I'm concerned but my goodness these last few days have been absurd.


Thank you djm. How anyone could think a GM just picks whatever player he wants and tells his coach 'Here... I know he's not the player you wanted but make it work anyway.' is beyond me. Then claims it's me who doesn't know what he's talking about.
Ok, so Flowers has technique problems . . .  
eclipz928 : 9/13/2017 7:55 pm : link
I'm not sure what's helpful about that insight. Every player coming out of college, regardless of how high their rated or where they're drafted, require further improvement on their technique in order to succeed in the NFL.

What about the person(s) who's job it is to coach him on technique? Are we now just assigning complete fault to the player if he doesn't continue to get better year to year?

Granted it's a hard thing to assess from a fan's vantage point, but at some point we have to start looking at how this offensive line is being coached.
Whatever you guys think about the guy  
KerrysFlask : 9/13/2017 10:13 pm : link
He knows more about oline play than anyone in this thread, and even knows the guys he's talking about personally.

What he says is spot on.
I believe that Flowers honestly wants to succeed. ...  
Manny in CA : 9/13/2017 11:50 pm : link

Works hard at it, but come game-time all the coaching, hard work and the yelling he's heard in practice DOESN"T matter because deep inside he's convinced that he has to revert back to the desperate techniques that are firmly entrenched in his mind because he doesn't trust his FEET to be where he needs them to be.

I think he has enough in him to be a decent right tackle, but it's not in him to be what Jerry & Mac want him to be at LT.
Flowers was not drafted to play LT  
Matt M. : 9/14/2017 12:21 am : link
I said that when he was drafted, when Beatty got hurt, and maintain it today. He was drafted to play RT.
RE: Flowers was not drafted to play LT  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13598197 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I said that when he was drafted, when Beatty got hurt, and maintain it today. He was drafted to play RT.


Not sure how to buy this. Why isn't he playing RT then? As mediocre as flowers has been, Hart hasn't done anything to suggest he should have that job locked up. If Flowers was intended to play RT, he'd have been positioned there.

You can't even really lean on RT being his better position fit since the modern NFL matches up defensive playmakers all over the field. He'd still face guys that give him problems on the right side as well. That's what any defensive coach would do.


Practically speaking, both Hart and Flowers get pushed around  
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2017 1:53 pm : link
enough that they kind of already play at different positions on the O-line...
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