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An observation about Eli Manning......

sxdxca : 9/13/2017 5:06 pm
First off I do think Eli is a good qb , and has about 4-5 more good years in him. I don't think there is a reason to abandon him just yet. Give him time...

With that being the case I do notice , when the Giants are being overmatched , and are losing , like what happened in Dallas.

The pressure starts to get in Eli's head , and he begins to start pressing. He panics.

For instance he missed Brandon Marshall at least two times where the ball was either way behind him , or he flat out missed him in the flat when Brandon had no one around him.

Last Sunday night against Dallas , that was a playoff caliber game , and what it showed is we are not at that caliber just yet , lets give it time and see where we are about 8 games into this....



He is also staring down receivers  
Doomster : 9/13/2017 5:08 pm : link
.
You spelled games wrong  
Justlurking : 9/13/2017 5:11 pm : link
I kid...I kid...

(Hopefully)
4 or 5 years left? There is no way of knowing that  
Blue21 : 9/13/2017 5:13 pm : link
now.
physically, could he stay healthy and play another 4-5 years?  
mfsd : 9/13/2017 5:20 pm : link
sure, possible.

But to your point, his challenge is a mental one right now - his strengths when at his best were making the right reads, handling pressure, and making clutch throws. Seeing none of that right now.

Will always be an Eli fan, but he's got to find a way to get his mojo back
Rannan  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 9/13/2017 5:21 pm : link
Had a good article today showing him miss Marshall wide open and Eli not even looking his way .

Also slowed the first and goal with Marshall one on one . Even with the pressure there was plenty of time to throw back shoulder or fade.
On the goal line play, Eli has explained that  
PatersonPlank : 9/13/2017 5:26 pm : link
He said he looked at him and the safety started rolling that way. This left his second option Engram, wide open in the middle. Eli was going back to Engram when 3 Dallas DL crushed him because our OL sucks. Given 2 more seconds he had Engram open instead of a jump ball to Marshall.
No way Eli lasts another 4 or 5 years. Over the past few seasons  
SterlingArcher : 9/13/2017 5:41 pm : link
it is easy to see Eli has lost arm strength, I love what Eli has done for the Giants and us Giants fans, I hate to see him end up like a used up Kurt Warner or Brett Favre.
RE: No way Eli lasts another 4 or 5 years. Over the past few seasons  
sxdxca : 9/13/2017 5:53 pm : link
In comment 13597891 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
it is easy to see Eli has lost arm strength, I love what Eli has done for the Giants and us Giants fans, I hate to see him end up like a used up Kurt Warner or Brett Favre.


I don't mean to disagree with you , but where have you seen Eli lose arm strength? I mean he's still making all of the throws , he even overthrew marshall on a deep pattern , i'm not seeing it?

If anything , he's in his head right now , he just needs to relax and not be skittish in the pocket and things will flow again for him
RE: On the goal line play, Eli has explained that  
crick n NC : 9/13/2017 5:54 pm : link
In comment 13597873 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
He said he looked at him and the safety started rolling that way. This left his second option Engram, wide open in the middle. Eli was going back to Engram when 3 Dallas DL crushed him because our OL sucks. Given 2 more seconds he had Engram open instead of a jump ball to Marshall.


This is correct, cris Collinsworth said this during the broadcast, BM was doubled.
Here is a question  
mikeygiants : 9/13/2017 6:03 pm : link
a lot of people are pointing out the weaknesses in his game, what are his strengths at this point in his career? You'd think that staying cool under fire would be a trait of a veteran.
Four or five years from now . . . .  
TC : 9/13/2017 6:09 pm : link
I wouldn't be surprised if Eli is running for public office, or investing in land somewhere, or both. But I doubt he'll be playing football in the NFL. And one reason he won't be, is he's getting the doo-doo knocked out of him! He's played what, 13 seasons? And he's not a stupid guy, and he knows what's going on here. You can only stand so much crappy protection before you start flinching. He's never been the most mobile QB, and he knows he's going to get walloped. If there's a reason to start Smith, it's to spare Eli a litte beating until they get this sorted out.
RE: RE: No way Eli lasts another 4 or 5 years. Over the past few seasons  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/13/2017 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13597904 sxdxca said:
Quote:
In comment 13597891 SterlingArcher said:


Quote:


it is easy to see Eli has lost arm strength, I love what Eli has done for the Giants and us Giants fans, I hate to see him end up like a used up Kurt Warner or Brett Favre.



I don't mean to disagree with you , but where have you seen Eli lose arm strength? I mean he's still making all of the throws , he even overthrew marshall on a deep pattern , i'm not seeing it?

If anything , he's in his head right now , he just needs to relax and not be skittish in the pocket and things will flow again for him

Overthrowing a deep ball is poor evidence of arm strength. If anything, it can also be evidence of arm strength starting to slip - rather than being able to get the ball out there easy to where you want it, you have to heave it and lose any touch at all on the ball.

The reality is this - Eli is 36. 36-year-old QBs tend to be in physical decline. There really isn't any evidence to suggest that Eli is an outlier in this regard.
There's no worse QB for this crappy line than Eli  
exiled : 9/13/2017 6:13 pm : link
Everything else in this thread is BS.

We have no way to assess whether his skills are deteriorating. How the fuck would we know?

He's a pocket passer. He hasn't had a line that supports his strengths since fucking 2012. The FO has had five fucking years to deal with this . They haven't. This is the result.

Stop whining that he's something that he's not. It's clear that he cannot be successful behind this line. We'll never know whether his final act would have been better.
I didnt see that In Eli...  
Triple "G" : 9/13/2017 6:21 pm : link
The 2 plays the OP is stating but he failed to mention that Eli had defenders in his face as he threw the ball. I love how certain aspects of plays are left out of the equation when it comes to Eli and him missing receivers or throws a bad bal.

NO QB is going to be accurate when everytime he drops back within 1 sec he has a defender so close to him he can smell his breath. The whole problem with Eli is his lack of protection, he doesn't even have time to set his feet. The receivers don't have time to run their routes either, that can be another reason for the so called bad passes, eli is throwing to a spot on the field. Now eli isn't perfect either but he isn't half as bad as some of you are making him out to be either.

Fix the O-line and that will fix Eli
Oops, my last post was meant for another Eli-bashing thread  
exiled : 9/13/2017 6:29 pm : link
The 'I'm sorry, but this on Eli' thread. That one just really pissed me off.
`How do you see from TV that Eli has lost arm strength?  
joe48 : 9/13/2017 7:26 pm : link
Do some of you have game film that allows you to make that determination?
RE: `How do you see from TV that Eli has lost arm strength?  
Dan in the Springs : 9/13/2017 7:32 pm : link
In comment 13598014 joe48 said:
Quote:
Do some of you have game film that allows you to make that determination?


I watch the all-22 of every game. I've noticed many times where our receivers have a step on a 9 route or deep and have to come back (slightly) for the ball. Even in those circumstances you have to look at Eli's position when throwing the ball to make any kind of judgement because if he can't step into his throw or finish it's going to be off-target and probably short.

I'm on the fence about Eli's arm strength, have read many people claiming it's down, but haven't become convinced either way yet. I keep looking for evidence and haven't yet seen it conclusively.

It is clear that he's taking fewer shots downfield though. I think a lot of that is due to the philosophy of the offense though - better to take what the defense is giving you (soft coverage - guys open underneath) than due to a lack of confidence in his arm.
Carl Banks said  
joeinpa : 9/13/2017 8:29 pm : link
The league knows if you hit Eli early, he won t recover
RE: Carl Banks said  
RodneyHampton : 9/13/2017 8:33 pm : link
Agree. Eli clearly has been regressing for a while and cannot get out of his own way. He needs perfect game conditions to be successful. I have been an Eli defender for a long time and starting to run out of steam.
joeinPA  
GeorgeAdams33 : 9/13/2017 9:42 pm : link
Carl Banks is way off base then. I wonder if he remembers the NFCC game in Frisco back in 2011
RE: Carl Banks said  
PatersonPlank : 9/13/2017 9:47 pm : link
In comment 13598078 joeinpa said:
Quote:
The league knows if you hit Eli early, he won t recover


How is that different from any other QB? People make it sound like Eli is the only one who has trouble with no OL.
RE: Carl Banks said  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/13/2017 10:04 pm : link
In comment 13598078 joeinpa said:
Quote:
The league knows if you hit Eli early, he won t recover



How is the GOAT, Tom Brady, any different?
Sorry Carl,  
WideRight : 9/13/2017 10:06 pm : link
Thats an easy line with a good sound bite. But its not true. Eli has recovered from many hard hits. Many more than other QBs.

He does change his game in the face of pressure. More checkdowns and quick releases. But its to avoid a sack, not the hit. Theres a difference.
What Carl means to say is...  
SHO'NUFF : 9/13/2017 11:12 pm : link
once you hit Eli early, you mess up his internal clock.
Yea, thats pretty clear  
Glover : 9/13/2017 11:26 pm : link
Eli is shook. He was all last season. Some have said here it may be irreparable. I dont think so, or I hope not. May have to wait till next season, after they hopefully pay some good O linemen in free agency AND draft some early in the draft. At this point they are kind of chasing their tail filling in holes, but it is what it is. Reese has been drafting better IMO and hopefully they O line becomes legit before there are new holes on defense, and oh yea, before Eli retires or really declines.
Eli shook maybe  
NikkiMac : 9/14/2017 8:17 am : link
But I do know this watching the preseason games Dak Prescott has been hitting his receivers in stride all summer and they looked like a well oiled machine and Eli hardly got any reps with these guys in preseason ...... this was not the summer for Eli to play so limited in preseason ......................Now they have to play catch up and the line better learn how to pick up basic stunts or this season is history !!!!!!
..  
Dodge : 9/14/2017 8:20 am : link
I think Eli has 12 more years left.
RE: Rannan  
Section331 : 9/14/2017 8:59 am : link
In comment 13597867 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
Had a good article today showing him miss Marshall wide open and Eli not even looking his way .

Also slowed the first and goal with Marshall one on one . Even with the pressure there was plenty of time to throw back shoulder or fade.


Did Raanan know where Marshall was in Eli's progression? Was he primary, secondary? That is why this type of analysis is useless. If Eli is going through his progressions, there is no way in hell he can get to even his 3rd read given how bad the OL is.
RE: Carl Banks said  
Section331 : 9/14/2017 9:02 am : link
In comment 13598078 joeinpa said:
Quote:
The league knows if you hit Eli early, he won t recover


And Carl Banks said that has been Eli's MO since he's been in the league, which we all know is bullshit. Eli has had numerous games where he took a pounding and kept coming back. One only has to rewatch the NFCC game in SF to see that.

Banks was a great player, but he is a horseshit analyst, and he always has been. Bob Papa is terrific, but Banks sucks.
It was a fade to Marshall Section331.  
BigBlueWhale : 9/14/2017 9:04 am : link
Marshall was the 1st read, Eli is looking right there and doesn't throw.

That's why he got sacked.

Uncork the back shoulder throw! We go out and sign a 6'4" red zone target and Eli pulls the ball down like it's Sinorice Moss. It's unreal how bad this guy is playing. I'll bet Reese threw the remote after that play.
How do you know Marshall was the first read?  
Section331 : 9/14/2017 9:06 am : link
If you watch the tape, Eli is waiting for Engram to make his break (where he would have been wide open). That tells me Engram was his primary read.
RE: How do you know Marshall was the first read?  
Dan in the Springs : 9/14/2017 9:27 am : link
In comment 13598283 Section331 said:
Quote:
If you watch the tape, Eli is waiting for Engram to make his break (where he would have been wide open). That tells me Engram was his primary read.


Eli talked about it in his post-game presser. He talked about looking at Marshall and the safety following his eyes and he knew that meant that Engram would be coming wide open, so he went there.

Marshall was his first read, and the judgement of Eli was that there would be an easier touchdown to Engram. Turned out he didn't have the time to be proven correct though.

With his thought process explained this is the wrong play to make an example of him being rattled or skittish under pressure. Quite the opposite, in fact. He was cool, thinking only about what was best to do with the ball, confident about his pass protection.

Players who are skittish throw that ball to Marshall every time.
The play in question  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 9/14/2017 9:34 am : link
That play in the redzone? Time it. From snap to the time he is hit, Eli has anywhere between 2.13 and 2.19 seconds. I timed it multiple times and those were my low and high counts. Good luck going through your progressions in that time.
Problem to me is  
Bluesbreaker : 9/14/2017 9:49 am : link
Is the system Eli does have a ton of miles on his arm so to
me realistically he probably has 2-3 good years left in him .
He has intangibles size his health takes care of his body
sufficient arm strength . Smarts he knows the game .
Never been a great touch passer he actually struggles with what he is now asked to do and sometimes forced to do . He does have pocket presence but he is not a scrambler he's not gonna have any designed runs .
He need's a decent run game this O-line had 21 games last year and the run game never materialized and the pass protection constantly broke down .
O-line and a stud RB is what we needed the defense would have still been good enough without spending a #2 on a DT
We could have garnered extra picks and still took Cam Johnson and instead of Thomlimson we could have taken Dion Dawkins . I don't know where they had the RB's Rated but at #3 Kareem Hunt and Donte Foremen both sitting there now I get the Chiefs took him right before us but using picks in a year your poised to make a run on players at picks 3 and 4 are not even suiting up as well as the only FA O-lineman we brought in also a healthy scratch .
Sure maybe they will right the ship and were gonna find out
Monday Night if this was just another bad game for Eli and the offensive line is gonna play a near perfect game .
We shall see as of right now were starring 0-3 right in the face .
RE: RE: On the goal line play, Eli has explained that  
BillKo : 9/14/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13597906 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 13597873 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


He said he looked at him and the safety started rolling that way. This left his second option Engram, wide open in the middle. Eli was going back to Engram when 3 Dallas DL crushed him because our OL sucks. Given 2 more seconds he had Engram open instead of a jump ball to Marshall.



This is correct, cris Collinsworth said this during the broadcast, BM was doubled.


I see now Eli's thought process...which was a good one. Rather than go for a low percentage jump ball to Marshall, wait for Engram to get open for an easier score on probably a LB.

Having said that, BM wasn't doubled. The coverage may have been rolling that way, but by the time that ball got there I don't think the safety is a factor.

OL lets Eli down once again. Good read by Eli.
RE: RE: Carl Banks said  
BillKo : 9/14/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13598278 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598078 joeinpa said:


Quote:


The league knows if you hit Eli early, he won t recover



And Carl Banks said that has been Eli's MO since he's been in the league, which we all know is bullshit. Eli has had numerous games where he took a pounding and kept coming back. One only has to rewatch the NFCC game in SF to see that.

Banks was a great player, but he is a horseshit analyst, and he always has been. Bob Papa is terrific, but Banks sucks.


Yeah, I listen to Carl on the post game driving home from games and he really is the master of the obvious....no real insight.

RE: Carl Banks said  
Jersey55 : 9/15/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13598078 joeinpa said:
Quote:
The league knows if you hit Eli early, he won t recover
thats been said by defensive players around the league for a long time, right now Eli simply will not stand in the pocket as long as he needs to to let the play develop, if only he could run just a little it would help...
4-5 Good years left in him is folly  
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2017 11:02 am : link
While I am sure he will bounce back from last week, he is exhibiting enough signs of a QB that is decline that it makes that timeline look foolish.

Saw some last year as well but not everybody wants to admit it.
RE: 4-5 Good years left in him is folly  
RodneyHampton : 9/15/2017 8:16 pm : link
Yes. Obvious signs. A solid QB is going to at least make a bad OLINE look serviceable. Eli compounds the bad OLINE.
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