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ThePapaCast

BobPapa : 9/13/2017 10:46 pm
Welcomes two-time Super Bowl champion David Diehl. David discusses the Giants offensive struggles. We also take a look at how to fix it and what's in store against the Lions. Plus David shares a Super Bowl 42 story about what was being said on the field between him and several Patriots before that final drive!
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RE: We should probably just lock the thread  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 10:26 am : link
In comment 13598374 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
map711 already told us that there are facts proving that Eli is entirely blameless. Facts! So if you think otherwise, just pack it up and go home.


Yup keep ignoring the facts and not commenting on them. Because what Bob and David just told you was that it's not Eli. Are you saying they're wrong??
Don't forget Chip Kelly's Eagles either.  
BigBlueWhale : 9/14/2017 10:26 am : link
Remember how they were so thoroughly able to dismantle us? Chip basically said they knew all of our plays, our checks.

This is what I'm talking about when I say McAdoo's sucked his entire 4 years here. His scheme is garbage. Sure it will work sometimes, but overall, it's garbage.

We can't get rid of this guy soon enough. He is terrifying.
Dan  
crick n NC : 9/14/2017 10:27 am : link
First let me say, I appreciate your posts on this forum. I look forward to reading your thoughts.

As for your most recent post, I don't think it's the teams "strategy" to take what the defense gives us. I think Mac stresses the importance of taking care of the ball as a qb, I think it's possible he stresses it more than Coughlin did. So I think we have a couple of things going on, I you have the qb being a little to careful on coaches instructions, lack of anyone being open, and third the OL. What Dave Diehl said on the podcast about Dallas just sitting, or knowing where our we were going to be isn't good news in the least bit. One thing that I feel I have heard a lot, is that Mac's offense is easy to defend, it certainly looked easy to defend Sunday night.

Now does adding a mobile qb who can throw the ball, and most importantly know where and when to throw the ball make this offense better? Of course, but if we're attempting to fit Eli in an offense that isn't designed for him, then we should get used to struggle, although Eli played well early under Mac's offense. Although we were told Coughlin and Mac combined offenses.
As for John Jerry...  
BigBlueWhale : 9/14/2017 10:30 am : link
...it shouldn't even matter who his OL Coach is. How long has he been playing RG? 106 games and he can't recognize a simple T/E Twist? When a DT crosses his face he should know the twist is coming and keep his shoulders SQUARE to the LOS to not allow a gap.

How a guy can care enough to go to Bentley's boot camp, start 86 games but still not be able to get this very simple concept is beyond ridiculous. He should be cut with extreme prejudice.

At the end of the day, though, you can't blame these guys. They are likely doing the best they can. If someone offered me the Head Coach job - I'd take it. You blame the decision-makers.
Another great point made by Papa and Diehl, other than the lousy  
PatersonPlank : 9/14/2017 10:33 am : link
OL play, is that the Cowboys DB's knew our WR routes. Papa said if you watch the tape the D was moving to the spots even before the WR's sometimes. This is the MacAdoo side of the issue. Make a game plan to win with what you have, not a game plan to push a specific offensive belief. Its obvious other teams know what we are doing, it needs to adjust.
What a great listen this is - Diehl talking about the Pats D  
PatersonPlank : 9/14/2017 10:37 am : link
trash talking at the start of the 2 minute drive in the 2011 SB. The Pats D was telling Diehl and the guys that the game is over, you should just kneel on it and end it. Ha ha ha.

He also said no one on the OL knew Tyree had caught the ball on his helmet. They just heard the crowd roar, knew it was a completion, and got up to run another play. It wasn't until a timeout when they looked up at the jumbotron that they realized what happened.
RE: RE: We should probably just lock the thread  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13598390 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598374 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


map711 already told us that there are facts proving that Eli is entirely blameless. Facts! So if you think otherwise, just pack it up and go home.



Yup keep ignoring the facts and not commenting on them. Because what Bob and David just told you was that it's not Eli. Are you saying they're wrong??


I don't think "facts" means what you think it does.

I don't think Bob or David would tell you that over the last 15-20 games of Giants offense, that Eli is 100% blameless or shouldn't play better. (That's just a prediction -- I certainly won't put words in Bob's mouth. I know he posts and lurks here from time to time, so maybe he can share some thoughts on Eli's play over that stretch).

I happen to agree with them that the OL is the biggest of the problems (both Sunday night and last season). There really isn't anyone disputing that thought. After that, it's very difficult to tell on specific plays/drives how much is Eli versus coaching/play-calling, but they both bear some of it in my view.
Everybody realizes both the scheme  
BigBlueWhale : 9/14/2017 10:50 am : link
and the OLine sucks.

The problem is - that has ruined Eli. I think that's what people are saying when they say he's cooked. His internal clock is destroyed because of this ridiculous scheme and OLine. And the OLine's been bad for 7 years.

Giants management caused this decline by what they allowed to happen with the offense around him. But make no mistake about it: he's terrible, just as any other QB would be under these circumstances. The toll its taken is very real.
RE: RE: RE: We should probably just lock the thread  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 10:50 am : link
In comment 13598414 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13598390 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598374 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


map711 already told us that there are facts proving that Eli is entirely blameless. Facts! So if you think otherwise, just pack it up and go home.



Yup keep ignoring the facts and not commenting on them. Because what Bob and David just told you was that it's not Eli. Are you saying they're wrong??



I don't think "facts" means what you think it does.

I don't think Bob or David would tell you that over the last 15-20 games of Giants offense, that Eli is 100% blameless or shouldn't play better. (That's just a prediction -- I certainly won't put words in Bob's mouth. I know he posts and lurks here from time to time, so maybe he can share some thoughts on Eli's play over that stretch).

I happen to agree with them that the OL is the biggest of the problems (both Sunday night and last season). There really isn't anyone disputing that thought. After that, it's very difficult to tell on specific plays/drives how much is Eli versus coaching/play-calling, but they both bear some of it in my view.


Well you have no idea what they would say so that's a moot point. I do think you never have liked Eli and see this as an opportunity to bash him. It just seems that way. Because you do admit this OL is bad and it's the same OL as last year. So with a poor OL, no running game, and WRs not getting open, little time to throw, how in the world do expect Eli to play better?
Where have I bashed Eli?  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 10:51 am : link
Thanks in advance.
Also  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 11:03 am : link
Did you happen to read the game review by Sy '56 and his analysis of Eli?

Spoiler alert: You won't like it.

I use to that only as one counterpoint to show that it's possible a well-informed football mind to think Eli's play could be better.

If anything, I find it to be a tad harsh.
RE: Where have I bashed Eli?  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13598421 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Thanks in advance.


I do admit you haven't bashed him like some other posters. But it does come off as disingenuous when you say it's partially his fault or he needs to play better. Because with all the other bad things happening around him, even partially blaming him seems ridiculous. There's no reason for it really. Other than you don't like him. Because anyone who listened to Bob and David breaking down that game, why would you just throw out the Eli needs to play better statement? The same problems that this team had on Sunday are the same as last year. And on Sunday, it was even worse without our star WR to at least give Eli some help.
Read the Sy '56 review  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 11:12 am : link
I'm sure you know his background, but in case you don't, he's a scout. For a living.

It doesn't make what he says a fact or necessarily spot on, but saying that Eli should be better isn't an outrageous position to take.
There is nothing wrong with criticizing Eli's play.  
Section331 : 9/14/2017 11:18 am : link
He didn't play well Sunday night, and deserves some of the flack sent his way. However, what he doesn't deserve is to shoulder all, or even most of the blame, and he certainly doesn't deserve to be called "done" after one lousy game.
Section  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 11:22 am : link
Agree, but I'd add that I think it is about as ridiculous to deny that he deserves any of the blame as to suggest that he deserves all of it.

Both extremes are completely ridiculous.
RE: Section  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13598455 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Agree, but I'd add that I think it is about as ridiculous to deny that he deserves any of the blame as to suggest that he deserves all of it.

Both extremes are completely ridiculous.



But uf you give him time to throw and the WRs get open he'll play better. If he has a running game that makes the defense at least respect it, he will play better. Unless you think he won't play better under better conditions? So again, I don't understand the Eli needs to play better thing. Great QBs have looked bad under constant pressure. We've seen this time and time again. Why is Eli being held under a different standard? We all know the game plan for all QBs. Pressure them constantly and they will look bad. It's been a game plan for as long as the league has been around. Eli is no different.
The last thing I will say  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 11:36 am : link
You seem determined not to give an inch on this. It comes of as homerish. That's fine. It's your prerogative.

But you should just be aware that you are the one at the extreme, not the people suggesting that Eli gets a non-zero share of the blame for the way this offense has performed recently.
"I know one of the things that's really pissing you off"  
phil in arizona : 9/14/2017 12:25 pm : link
lol
You can't move on to Problem #2  
SHO'NUFF : 9/14/2017 12:27 pm : link
without addressing Problem #1. Even IF Eli is part of the problem, he is like #5 down the line.

Even Henry Hynoski mentioned the communication issue in another podcast.
Either, there is a REAL lack of time  
SHO'NUFF : 9/14/2017 12:29 pm : link
or a PERCEIVED lack of time... either one will make a QB look bad.
RE: Dan  
Dan in the Springs : 9/14/2017 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13598395 crick n NC said:
Quote:
First let me say, I appreciate your posts on this forum. I look forward to reading your thoughts.

As for your most recent post, I don't think it's the teams "strategy" to take what the defense gives us. I think Mac stresses the importance of taking care of the ball as a qb, I think it's possible he stresses it more than Coughlin did. So I think we have a couple of things going on, I you have the qb being a little to careful on coaches instructions, lack of anyone being open, and third the OL. What Dave Diehl said on the podcast about Dallas just sitting, or knowing where our we were going to be isn't good news in the least bit. One thing that I feel I have heard a lot, is that Mac's offense is easy to defend, it certainly looked easy to defend Sunday night.

Now does adding a mobile qb who can throw the ball, and most importantly know where and when to throw the ball make this offense better? Of course, but if we're attempting to fit Eli in an offense that isn't designed for him, then we should get used to struggle, although Eli played well early under Mac's offense. Although we were told Coughlin and Mac combined offenses.


Thanks crick - I appreciate the kind words. I think you and I are actually on the same page because I really agree with everything you just said. Perhaps I'm not communicating well. I think a better word than strategy might be guiding principle or philosophy.
Diehl  
RAIN : 9/14/2017 1:24 pm : link
needs to get into the film room with these guys.

He seems to think most of these things are technique, communication, and confidence.

I have a feeling are OT's are technique poor and not very bright. They aren't adjusting or communicating.
Also...  
RAIN : 9/14/2017 1:26 pm : link
the coaching staff is getting dinged here too.
RE: Wow  
Milton : 9/14/2017 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13598229 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
Maybe they should ask Diehl to coach the offensive line.
Maybe they should ask him to coach the team. He talks like a guy who would make a great head coach. He's smart, knowledgable, articulate, and fiery. Checks all the boxes if you ask me.
RE: RE: Dan  
crick n NC : 9/14/2017 1:35 pm : link
In comment 13598608 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13598395 crick n NC said:


Quote:


First let me say, I appreciate your posts on this forum. I look forward to reading your thoughts.

As for your most recent post, I don't think it's the teams "strategy" to take what the defense gives us. I think Mac stresses the importance of taking care of the ball as a qb, I think it's possible he stresses it more than Coughlin did. So I think we have a couple of things going on, I you have the qb being a little to careful on coaches instructions, lack of anyone being open, and third the OL. What Dave Diehl said on the podcast about Dallas just sitting, or knowing where our we were going to be isn't good news in the least bit. One thing that I feel I have heard a lot, is that Mac's offense is easy to defend, it certainly looked easy to defend Sunday night.

Now does adding a mobile qb who can throw the ball, and most importantly know where and when to throw the ball make this offense better? Of course, but if we're attempting to fit Eli in an offense that isn't designed for him, then we should get used to struggle, although Eli played well early under Mac's offense. Although we were told Coughlin and Mac combined offenses.



Thanks crick - I appreciate the kind words. I think you and I are actually on the same page because I really agree with everything you just said. Perhaps I'm not communicating well. I think a better word than strategy might be guiding principle or philosophy.


Dan, perhaps my reading comprehension could use some work!
One other thing  
trueblueinpw : 9/14/2017 2:10 pm : link
When Papa says that's defenders are running to the spots where the receivers are sitting for passes - I think he implicating the scheme. Defenders are sitting in two high zone coverage and they seem to know the routes the receivers are running. This is different from a receivers not being able to shake man coverages. We've been hearing and seeing that teams seem to be completely dialed in to what the offense is trying to do. There was a blitz by Sean Lee on Sunday where you would have thought he knew the snap count and the play call.
RE: Section  
Section331 : 9/14/2017 2:55 pm : link
In comment 13598455 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Agree, but I'd add that I think it is about as ridiculous to deny that he deserves any of the blame as to suggest that he deserves all of it.

Both extremes are completely ridiculous.


Completely agree, hoya.
RE: One other thing  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/14/2017 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13598655 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
When Papa says that's defenders are running to the spots where the receivers are sitting for passes - I think he implicating the scheme. Defenders are sitting in two high zone coverage and they seem to know the routes the receivers are running. This is different from a receivers not being able to shake man coverages. We've been hearing and seeing that teams seem to be completely dialed in to what the offense is trying to do. There was a blitz by Sean Lee on Sunday where you would have thought he knew the snap count and the play call.


I don't think anything that you've said here is uncommon in the NFL, especially with division opponents. It's not like teams change the playbook every year. When you play a team twice a year in your division, you know what their offense is supposed to be. And the Giants know what the Cowboys run too. They've been playing Jason Garrett teams for almost 10 years. They know the types of run plays they like, the types of concepts they favor, and the plays that they run most often in different situations. All division opponents have that familiarity. That's why these games are typically close contests.
RE: There is nothing wrong with criticizing Eli's play.  
Jeffrey : 9/14/2017 4:26 pm : link
In comment 13598449 Section331 said:
Quote:
He didn't play well Sunday night, and deserves some of the flack sent his way. However, what he doesn't deserve is to shoulder all, or even most of the blame, and he certainly doesn't deserve to be called "done" after one lousy game.


I agree with all of this, but would point out that going back over the past year Eli has had an increasing number of lousy games. There may be many reasons for his poor play, but age cannot be discounted just because Giant fans do not want to acknowledge the inevitable decline in skills and mobility that comes to all QBs. The real indictment is to the front office and coaching staff who have elected to go with an aging QB but have done nothing to mitigate his weaknesses by either improving his protection or designing a scheme to get some of the pressure off the QB. The sad part of Sunday night is not the final score but the fact that the Giants were so thoroughly over-matched from the outset.
RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/14/2017 5:13 pm : link
In comment 13598304 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.

All-22 is available to anyone with $100 in their pocket. It's not that hard to gain access.


Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/14/2017 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13598333 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598319 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.



You're.

And yes, I'm on record -- Eli needs better OL play in front of him, but can and should also play a bit better than he has over the last 15-20 games as a body of work.

I hope that doesn't trigger you too much more than it has already, pumpkin.



Hi sweetheart. Doesn't trigger anything other than the fact that now you are trying to backtrack on your Eli stance. You're wrong. Simple.

Oooh, you got "you're" right this time. You might as well get something right at some point since you like questioning people's IQ.

I'll go on record. I think Eli is in decline. I've said all along that I do acknowledge that the OL needs to be better/play better, but I also think they're being scapegoated to some extent for Eli's weaknesses.

And if you think this podcast is the gospel, I'll point you ~10 minutes in when Diehl suggests they send Eli out on rollouts. But I'm supposed to believe he's informed and unbiased?
Remember  
DaveW2 : 9/14/2017 5:50 pm : link
How successful Eli has always been in the hurry up offense, when he calls his own plays? Just a thought. Oh yeah, and the OL sucks monkey balls.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13598869 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13598333 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598319 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.



You're.

And yes, I'm on record -- Eli needs better OL play in front of him, but can and should also play a bit better than he has over the last 15-20 games as a body of work.

I hope that doesn't trigger you too much more than it has already, pumpkin.



Hi sweetheart. Doesn't trigger anything other than the fact that now you are trying to backtrack on your Eli stance. You're wrong. Simple.


Oooh, you got "you're" right this time. You might as well get something right at some point since you like questioning people's IQ.

I'll go on record. I think Eli is in decline. I've said all along that I do acknowledge that the OL needs to be better/play better, but I also think they're being scapegoated to some extent for Eli's weaknesses.

And if you think this podcast is the gospel, I'll point you ~10 minutes in when Diehl suggests they send Eli out on rollouts. But I'm supposed to believe he's informed and unbiased?


So now we're down to talking about that I used your instead of you're once in a freaking post? My god. Nothing better to say I guess. I'll believe David way before I believe you when it comes to football. So you are a better source than Papa and Diehl? Ok then.
It think Eric is good,but he just does not want to take  
32_Razor : 9/14/2017 6:06 pm : link
Hits anymore. He gave jerry a long time to improve the line and he doesn't want to go back home to his family with brain damage. Can't blame him one bit
RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 6:06 pm : link
In comment 13598853 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.


All-22 is available to anyone with $100 in their pocket. It's not that hard to gain access.
Link - ( New Window )


The question is did you watch it? I'm guessing no way. Even if you did, what expertise do you have over the two guys on the podcast? We know their qualifications- what are your qualifications???
I meant Eli, not Eric, I hate autocorrect  
32_Razor : 9/14/2017 6:07 pm : link
Lol
RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/14/2017 6:33 pm : link
In comment 13598893 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598853 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.


All-22 is available to anyone with $100 in their pocket. It's not that hard to gain access.
Link - ( New Window )



The question is did you watch it? I'm guessing no way. Even if you did, what expertise do you have over the two guys on the podcast? We know their qualifications- what are your qualifications???

You want to keep moving the goalposts, have at it. Sorry that you didn't realize that the All-22 was available to the general public. But yes, I've played QB in the NFL and been a head coach in the NFL exactly the same number of games as Papa and Diehl combined. Crazy coincidence, I know.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 6:36 pm : link
In comment 13598909 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13598893 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598853 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.


All-22 is available to anyone with $100 in their pocket. It's not that hard to gain access.
Link - ( New Window )



The question is did you watch it? I'm guessing no way. Even if you did, what expertise do you have over the two guys on the podcast? We know their qualifications- what are your qualifications???


You want to keep moving the goalposts, have at it. Sorry that you didn't realize that the All-22 was available to the general public. But yes, I've played QB in the NFL and been a head coach in the NFL exactly the same number of games as Papa and Diehl combined. Crazy coincidence, I know.


Now you are making yourself look silly. So again you think you know as much or more about football than Diehl and Papa. Ok then.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 6:39 pm : link
In comment 13598909 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13598893 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598853 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.


All-22 is available to anyone with $100 in their pocket. It's not that hard to gain access.
Link - ( New Window )



The question is did you watch it? I'm guessing no way. Even if you did, what expertise do you have over the two guys on the podcast? We know their qualifications- what are your qualifications???


You want to keep moving the goalposts, have at it. Sorry that you didn't realize that the All-22 was available to the general public. But yes, I've played QB in the NFL and been a head coach in the NFL exactly the same number of games as Papa and Diehl combined. Crazy coincidence, I know.


And by the way, I knew the 22 was available. That was not what I was getting at. Read it again champ. My take was that he and you never watched it. So when Papa and Diehl watched it - it made them have a much clearer take on the situation than you. Period.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/14/2017 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13598909 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13598893 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598853 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.


All-22 is available to anyone with $100 in their pocket. It's not that hard to gain access.
Link - ( New Window )



The question is did you watch it? I'm guessing no way. Even if you did, what expertise do you have over the two guys on the podcast? We know their qualifications- what are your qualifications???


You want to keep moving the goalposts, have at it. Sorry that you didn't realize that the All-22 was available to the general public. But yes, I've played QB in the NFL and been a head coach in the NFL exactly the same number of games as Papa and Diehl combined. Crazy coincidence, I know.

And it's convenient that you're flat out ignoring Sy's game review that Hoya directed you toward. As Hoya mentioned, Sy is a professional scout - so he's definitely qualified to offer his take on Eli's performance, wouldn't you agree?

Here was his take from Sunday night (on Eli; you can read the rest yourself if you want):

Quote:
29/38 – 220 yards – 0 TD – 1 INT – 78.8 rating. Manning lacked command and toughness. His shaky feet in the pocket could partially be blamed on the poor play upfront, but he rushed several throws when he didn’t need to. There was enough zip on his passes and his lone deep pass of the night actually had too much on it. When the team needed him to step up, he didn’t answer the bell. A couple of the biggest opportunities resulted in Manning not getting the job done.

Quote:
3 STUDS
LB B.J. Goodson, DT Damon Harrison, OG Justin Pugh

3 DUDS
RT Bobby Hart, LT Ereck Flowers, QB Eli Manning
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/14/2017 6:41 pm : link
In comment 13598911 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598909 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598893 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598853 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.


All-22 is available to anyone with $100 in their pocket. It's not that hard to gain access.
Link - ( New Window )



The question is did you watch it? I'm guessing no way. Even if you did, what expertise do you have over the two guys on the podcast? We know their qualifications- what are your qualifications???


You want to keep moving the goalposts, have at it. Sorry that you didn't realize that the All-22 was available to the general public. But yes, I've played QB in the NFL and been a head coach in the NFL exactly the same number of games as Papa and Diehl combined. Crazy coincidence, I know.



And by the way, I knew the 22 was available. That was not what I was getting at. Read it again champ. My take was that he and you never watched it. So when Papa and Diehl watched it - it made them have a much clearer take on the situation than you. Period.

I absolutely watched it. Why would I pay for it and then not watch it?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 6:52 pm : link
In comment 13598913 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13598909 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598893 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598853 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.


All-22 is available to anyone with $100 in their pocket. It's not that hard to gain access.
Link - ( New Window )



The question is did you watch it? I'm guessing no way. Even if you did, what expertise do you have over the two guys on the podcast? We know their qualifications- what are your qualifications???


You want to keep moving the goalposts, have at it. Sorry that you didn't realize that the All-22 was available to the general public. But yes, I've played QB in the NFL and been a head coach in the NFL exactly the same number of games as Papa and Diehl combined. Crazy coincidence, I know.


And it's convenient that you're flat out ignoring Sy's game review that Hoya directed you toward. As Hoya mentioned, Sy is a professional scout - so he's definitely qualified to offer his take on Eli's performance, wouldn't you agree?

Here was his take from Sunday night (on Eli; you can read the rest yourself if you want):



Quote:


29/38 – 220 yards – 0 TD – 1 INT – 78.8 rating. Manning lacked command and toughness. His shaky feet in the pocket could partially be blamed on the poor play upfront, but he rushed several throws when he didn’t need to. There was enough zip on his passes and his lone deep pass of the night actually had too much on it. When the team needed him to step up, he didn’t answer the bell. A couple of the biggest opportunities resulted in Manning not getting the job done.




Quote:


3 STUDS
LB B.J. Goodson, DT Damon Harrison, OG Justin Pugh

3 DUDS
RT Bobby Hart, LT Ereck Flowers, QB Eli Manning



And you ignore Diehl and Papa. So now what? Listen we will agree to disagree. Because we can go round and round. I don't think Eli is to blame for the offense. You believe he is- or at the very least- partially to blame. We'll just go with that. I think that is not correct. You do. Great. Carry on.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/14/2017 7:55 pm : link
In comment 13598919 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598913 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598909 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598893 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598853 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.


All-22 is available to anyone with $100 in their pocket. It's not that hard to gain access.
Link - ( New Window )



The question is did you watch it? I'm guessing no way. Even if you did, what expertise do you have over the two guys on the podcast? We know their qualifications- what are your qualifications???


You want to keep moving the goalposts, have at it. Sorry that you didn't realize that the All-22 was available to the general public. But yes, I've played QB in the NFL and been a head coach in the NFL exactly the same number of games as Papa and Diehl combined. Crazy coincidence, I know.


And it's convenient that you're flat out ignoring Sy's game review that Hoya directed you toward. As Hoya mentioned, Sy is a professional scout - so he's definitely qualified to offer his take on Eli's performance, wouldn't you agree?

Here was his take from Sunday night (on Eli; you can read the rest yourself if you want):



Quote:


29/38 – 220 yards – 0 TD – 1 INT – 78.8 rating. Manning lacked command and toughness. His shaky feet in the pocket could partially be blamed on the poor play upfront, but he rushed several throws when he didn’t need to. There was enough zip on his passes and his lone deep pass of the night actually had too much on it. When the team needed him to step up, he didn’t answer the bell. A couple of the biggest opportunities resulted in Manning not getting the job done.




Quote:


3 STUDS
LB B.J. Goodson, DT Damon Harrison, OG Justin Pugh

3 DUDS
RT Bobby Hart, LT Ereck Flowers, QB Eli Manning





And you ignore Diehl and Papa. So now what? Listen we will agree to disagree. Because we can go round and round. I don't think Eli is to blame for the offense. You believe he is- or at the very least- partially to blame. We'll just go with that. I think that is not correct. You do. Great. Carry on.

Fair enough. And I appreciate your position even though I disagree with it. Believe me, I hope you're right - your take is a much safer path to another Lombardi and I think we can both agree on that!
RE: I feel the criticism  
JOrthman : 9/14/2017 10:13 pm : link
In comment 13598348 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Is for the most part unwarranted. I also feel us fans don't know nearly what we think we do.


Yep
This  
UK Giants Fan : 9/15/2017 7:28 am : link
was a really informative and interesting podcast, I was previously unaware of the "Papacast". I will definitely be tuning in next week
RE: This  
Diver_Down : 9/15/2017 8:10 am : link
In comment 13599217 UK Giants Fan said:
Quote:
was a really informative and interesting podcast, I was previously unaware of the "Papacast". I will definitely be tuning in next week


Subscribe on the site and you'll get an email notification. The email is often sent before Bob has a chance to post it on BBI. Sometimes, unless there is a discussion on the content, the BBI thread will be pushed off the front page until a mod pins the thread.
Is it Eli's fault he has David Carr syndrome?  
mattlawson : 9/15/2017 9:26 am : link
.
RE: Is it Eli's fault he has David Carr syndrome?  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 11:33 am : link
In comment 13599295 mattlawson said:
Quote:
.

He's being sacked less frequently than he was under TC/KG by a fair amount. Carr actually was sacked frequently; Eli might be rushing to avoid getting sacked, but he's been sacked less often than almost any other time in his career since BMc took over.
He is absolutely becoming a worse QB because he is so concerned  
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2017 11:43 am : link
about getting sacked.

His game mngt skills are taking a hit as well as he clearly realizes the gameplan and his skills are not beating Defenses anymore...
RE: He is absolutely becoming a worse QB because he is so concerned  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13599518 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
about getting sacked.

His game mngt skills are taking a hit as well as he clearly realizes the gameplan and his skills are not beating Defenses anymore...

I wish any of us could sit down with Eli off the record and just ask him about the final drive against Dallas this past Sunday. Down 2+ scores with 2 minutes to go and almost every single pass was a 5 yard checkdown. Where is Eli the gunslinger? At that point in the game, even an interception doesn't really matter, and there wasn't really much pass rush since Dallas was in some form of prevent. Why was there no attempt to even try for a last ditch effort to win the game? Where was the QB that Accorsi fell in love with in Oxford?

I have been very critical of Eli this week and honestly, it was that drive that caused me to go back and look at the rest of his performance through a different lens.
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