Welcomes two-time Super Bowl champion David Diehl. David discusses the Giants offensive struggles. We also take a look at how to fix it and what's in store against the Lions. Plus David shares a Super Bowl 42 story about what was being said on the field between him and several Patriots before that final drive!
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Re: Solari and the OL. The stunts that confound the OL is unacceptable. Jerry has been a starter in this league for years and should know better. He's the one that Hart should be relying on Jerry's veteran experience. We all can accept that Jerry is not going to be a dominant force, but he can't be that negligent in his responsibilities. The stunts are basic. Solari shouldn't have to coach the recognition and responsibilities to handle such stunts. These are basic stunts that are done at the college level.
If Jerry is unable to execute his responsibilities, then he needs to be sent to the bench. If Solari is unable to coach up basic OL play, then perhaps, he needs to go. Last year, fans gave Solari a pass as it was year 1. But this isn't his first rodeo. With 2 off-seasons and the same players, these basic stunts should not be successful.
Or this. ;-)
Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.
Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.
Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.
Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.
Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.
Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.
Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.
I think it is reasonable that even if the line starts to gel and play better, there may be a lag until Eli starts playing better. This line has been bad for a long time and he is likely going to stay uncomfortable back there until they show consistent improvement.
And I think we all know that this offense has gotten extremely predictable. Hearing that the Cowboys seemed to be going to the spots where the receivers were headed pre-snap certainly seems to back that up. This coaching staff needs to do a better job of self scouting their tendencies and doing something to mix those up.
Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.
Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.
Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.
Maybe you should read the posts. Hell, just read the front page of the Corner Forum, "Sorry, Eli is the problem", "Is Eli Done?"...and that is without diving into any threads. Sure, many, probably most posters blame the OL, but there are plenty who are calling Eli done, washed up, stunk for years, etc.
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Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.
Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.
Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.
Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.
Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.
You're.
And yes, I'm on record -- Eli needs better OL play in front of him, but can and should also play a bit better than he has over the last 15-20 games as a body of work.
I hope that doesn't trigger you too much more than it has already, pumpkin.
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In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.
Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.
Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.
Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.
Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.
You're.
And yes, I'm on record -- Eli needs better OL play in front of him, but can and should also play a bit better than he has over the last 15-20 games as a body of work.
I hope that doesn't trigger you too much more than it has already, pumpkin.
Hi sweetheart. Doesn't trigger anything other than the fact that now you are trying to backtrack on your Eli stance. You're wrong. Simple.
Quote:
Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.
Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.
Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.
Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.
Maybe you should read the posts. Hell, just read the front page of the Corner Forum, "Sorry, Eli is the problem", "Is Eli Done?"...and that is without diving into any threads. Sure, many, probably most posters blame the OL, but there are plenty who are calling Eli done, washed up, stunk for years, etc.
This
My takes on Eli have been measured through and through. Show me one instance otherwise.
My reactions to the unabashed apologists who can't handle any criticism of him have not been and will not be as measured.
If you want to be "on the record" as responding to the perfectly reasonable and unemotional opinion that I restated in my last post with nothing more than "you're wrong, plain and simple", then you're all set and this informative exchange between us has run its course.
Take care.
My takes on Eli have been measured through and through. Show me one instance otherwise.
My reactions to the unabashed apologists who can't handle any criticism of him have not been and will not be as measured.
If you want to be "on the record" as responding to the perfectly reasonable and unemotional opinion that I restated in my last post with nothing more than "you're wrong, plain and simple", then you're all set and this informative exchange between us has run its course.
Take care.
Yup with the evidence in your face you still have the same opinion. Even with Bob and David telling you the facts you still won't admit you're wrong. Guess that's how you roll. Glad you decided to go. See ya!!
Having said that, there's still room for him to improve as well. And personally, I'd like him to be a bit more aggressive instead of always going with the checkdowns.
We are a team whose hallmark is poor execution. We shouldn't be just taking what the defense gives us, since that means we have to consistently execute a dozen times a drive to be in the red zone.
Quote:
Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.
Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.
Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.
Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.
Maybe you should read the posts. Hell, just read the front page of the Corner Forum, "Sorry, Eli is the problem", "Is Eli Done?"...and that is without diving into any threads. Sure, many, probably most posters blame the OL, but there are plenty who are calling Eli done, washed up, stunk for years, etc.
I guess that's fair enough, Section. I've become adept at ignoring the one-line posts saying ridiculous shit that basically amounts to nothing more than trolling, so they aren't even part of my mental accounting of the opinion of the BBI collective. I'm thinking of people who engage in discussion rather than the drive-by keyboard diarrhea.
So maybe I do under-state the anti-Eli crowd. (I still think people should tune out those obviously troll-ish posts).
It sure sounds to me like coaching is a huge part of the problem. DD also seems to be saying there is a lack of communication among the linemen. Stunts for example during the Cowboy game might have been handled if the G and T adjusted in a particular way.
If you have Double D on again, can you ask him why he thinks guys aren't communicating with pre snap adjustments? The O line has been together long enough that they should be talking and adjusting. Is this coaching too?
Look, he's our guy, and I love Eli. It's okay though to be critical of him and everyone else on our offense right now though. It's not a binary (for/against) situation with Eli.
True, to an extent. Here's the problem.
If your strategy is to read the defense and then take what they give you, you allow the defense to dictate the game. In this case, all defenses are going the same direction against us. Show a 2-deep look and drop your underneath coverage at the sticks. Eli reads the defense correctly and sees the easy completion underneath first. He will then take those yards almost always, not even seeing if/when things are opening up downfield. Happens consistently on third down. We led (or were second iirc) the league in three-and-outs last year. This is why.
You have to take a few more chances, a few more times a game. Doesn't mean throwing into triple-coverage, but you've got to take your shots downfield.
Yup keep ignoring the facts and not commenting on them. Because what Bob and David just told you was that it's not Eli. Are you saying they're wrong??
This is what I'm talking about when I say McAdoo's sucked his entire 4 years here. His scheme is garbage. Sure it will work sometimes, but overall, it's garbage.
We can't get rid of this guy soon enough. He is terrifying.
As for your most recent post, I don't think it's the teams "strategy" to take what the defense gives us. I think Mac stresses the importance of taking care of the ball as a qb, I think it's possible he stresses it more than Coughlin did. So I think we have a couple of things going on, I you have the qb being a little to careful on coaches instructions, lack of anyone being open, and third the OL. What Dave Diehl said on the podcast about Dallas just sitting, or knowing where our we were going to be isn't good news in the least bit. One thing that I feel I have heard a lot, is that Mac's offense is easy to defend, it certainly looked easy to defend Sunday night.
Now does adding a mobile qb who can throw the ball, and most importantly know where and when to throw the ball make this offense better? Of course, but if we're attempting to fit Eli in an offense that isn't designed for him, then we should get used to struggle, although Eli played well early under Mac's offense. Although we were told Coughlin and Mac combined offenses.
How a guy can care enough to go to Bentley's boot camp, start 86 games but still not be able to get this very simple concept is beyond ridiculous. He should be cut with extreme prejudice.
At the end of the day, though, you can't blame these guys. They are likely doing the best they can. If someone offered me the Head Coach job - I'd take it. You blame the decision-makers.
He also said no one on the OL knew Tyree had caught the ball on his helmet. They just heard the crowd roar, knew it was a completion, and got up to run another play. It wasn't until a timeout when they looked up at the jumbotron that they realized what happened.
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map711 already told us that there are facts proving that Eli is entirely blameless. Facts! So if you think otherwise, just pack it up and go home.
Yup keep ignoring the facts and not commenting on them. Because what Bob and David just told you was that it's not Eli. Are you saying they're wrong??
I don't think "facts" means what you think it does.
I don't think Bob or David would tell you that over the last 15-20 games of Giants offense, that Eli is 100% blameless or shouldn't play better. (That's just a prediction -- I certainly won't put words in Bob's mouth. I know he posts and lurks here from time to time, so maybe he can share some thoughts on Eli's play over that stretch).
I happen to agree with them that the OL is the biggest of the problems (both Sunday night and last season). There really isn't anyone disputing that thought. After that, it's very difficult to tell on specific plays/drives how much is Eli versus coaching/play-calling, but they both bear some of it in my view.
The problem is - that has ruined Eli. I think that's what people are saying when they say he's cooked. His internal clock is destroyed because of this ridiculous scheme and OLine. And the OLine's been bad for 7 years.
Giants management caused this decline by what they allowed to happen with the offense around him. But make no mistake about it: he's terrible, just as any other QB would be under these circumstances. The toll its taken is very real.
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In comment 13598374 bigbluehoya said:
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map711 already told us that there are facts proving that Eli is entirely blameless. Facts! So if you think otherwise, just pack it up and go home.
Yup keep ignoring the facts and not commenting on them. Because what Bob and David just told you was that it's not Eli. Are you saying they're wrong??
I don't think "facts" means what you think it does.
I don't think Bob or David would tell you that over the last 15-20 games of Giants offense, that Eli is 100% blameless or shouldn't play better. (That's just a prediction -- I certainly won't put words in Bob's mouth. I know he posts and lurks here from time to time, so maybe he can share some thoughts on Eli's play over that stretch).
I happen to agree with them that the OL is the biggest of the problems (both Sunday night and last season). There really isn't anyone disputing that thought. After that, it's very difficult to tell on specific plays/drives how much is Eli versus coaching/play-calling, but they both bear some of it in my view.
Well you have no idea what they would say so that's a moot point. I do think you never have liked Eli and see this as an opportunity to bash him. It just seems that way. Because you do admit this OL is bad and it's the same OL as last year. So with a poor OL, no running game, and WRs not getting open, little time to throw, how in the world do expect Eli to play better?
Spoiler alert: You won't like it.
I use to that only as one counterpoint to show that it's possible a well-informed football mind to think Eli's play could be better.
If anything, I find it to be a tad harsh.
I do admit you haven't bashed him like some other posters. But it does come off as disingenuous when you say it's partially his fault or he needs to play better. Because with all the other bad things happening around him, even partially blaming him seems ridiculous. There's no reason for it really. Other than you don't like him. Because anyone who listened to Bob and David breaking down that game, why would you just throw out the Eli needs to play better statement? The same problems that this team had on Sunday are the same as last year. And on Sunday, it was even worse without our star WR to at least give Eli some help.
It doesn't make what he says a fact or necessarily spot on, but saying that Eli should be better isn't an outrageous position to take.
Both extremes are completely ridiculous.
Both extremes are completely ridiculous.
But uf you give him time to throw and the WRs get open he'll play better. If he has a running game that makes the defense at least respect it, he will play better. Unless you think he won't play better under better conditions? So again, I don't understand the Eli needs to play better thing. Great QBs have looked bad under constant pressure. We've seen this time and time again. Why is Eli being held under a different standard? We all know the game plan for all QBs. Pressure them constantly and they will look bad. It's been a game plan for as long as the league has been around. Eli is no different.
But you should just be aware that you are the one at the extreme, not the people suggesting that Eli gets a non-zero share of the blame for the way this offense has performed recently.