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ThePapaCast

BobPapa : 9/13/2017 10:46 pm
Welcomes two-time Super Bowl champion David Diehl. David discusses the Giants offensive struggles. We also take a look at how to fix it and what's in store against the Lions. Plus David shares a Super Bowl 42 story about what was being said on the field between him and several Patriots before that final drive!
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Thanks bob  
mattlawson : 9/13/2017 10:58 pm : link
enjoying it so far. great summary in the first minute.
Great listen.  
guitarguybs12 : 9/13/2017 11:17 pm : link
Diehl has some great insight to the problem.
Thank you,  
SHO'NUFF : 9/13/2017 11:17 pm : link
Bob!
This should  
crick n NC : 9/13/2017 11:25 pm : link
quiet the "eli is the problem" posters. And there are many.
Diehl and Papa see it  
SHO'NUFF : 9/14/2017 3:09 am : link
We see it. Why can't the coaching staff?
Wow  
blueblood'11 : 9/14/2017 7:20 am : link
Maybe they should ask Diehl to coach the offensive line. That guy was a warrior and played a number of positions on the line including left tackle. He used to get criticized at times by posters here on BBI and I could never understand why. You talk about a horse on that line. He was a tough son of a bitch. The Giants could use a couple of him on the line.
They really rip  
rocco8112 : 9/14/2017 7:56 am : link
the o line. Also, Papa mentioned that on the all 22 coaches film you can see Dallas defenders running and sitting in spots where the receivers are headed. Basically saying that not only does the o line suck, but often no one is open anyway.



Thanks, Bob, for doing these. They are very much appreciated.  
Diver_Down : 9/14/2017 7:57 am : link
Love the insight re: SB42 by Diehl. He is spot on re: Wilfork and sleeping giants. There are certain players that you never want to arouse with the smack talk and extra-curricular activities in the realm of blocking. Those players can wreck a game and to keep them as dormant as possible is to your advantage.

Re: Solari and the OL. The stunts that confound the OL is unacceptable. Jerry has been a starter in this league for years and should know better. He's the one that Hart should be relying on Jerry's veteran experience. We all can accept that Jerry is not going to be a dominant force, but he can't be that negligent in his responsibilities. The stunts are basic. Solari shouldn't have to coach the recognition and responsibilities to handle such stunts. These are basic stunts that are done at the college level.

If Jerry is unable to execute his responsibilities, then he needs to be sent to the bench. If Solari is unable to coach up basic OL play, then perhaps, he needs to go. Last year, fans gave Solari a pass as it was year 1. But this isn't his first rodeo. With 2 off-seasons and the same players, these basic stunts should not be successful.
Once again my friend who is a Dolphins fan  
mattlawson : 9/14/2017 8:08 am : link
Said they are thrilled to be rid of Jerry because it was maddening has breakdowns over and over again
RE: Diehl and Papa see it  
Beer Man : 9/14/2017 8:14 am : link
In comment 13598213 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
We see it. Why can't the coaching staff?
Because Mac doesn't know how to adapt
But how can this be!!! Inconceivable!!  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 8:25 am : link
Guys on BBI tell me Eli stinks!! They have to be right no?? Joey In VA is much more of a football expert than these two clowns!! So what if one of them played in the NFL and the other one is been doing this as his job for years. We have BBI posters telling us the real deal!!
Listened to this last night.  
Section331 : 9/14/2017 8:56 am : link
Great job by Papa and Diehl, and an indictment of the OL and coaching staff. We've rehashed the OL problems ad infinitum here, but Papa and Diehl were describing the all 22 tape and how Cowboy defenders seemed to know where our receivers were supposed to be. If true, that is frightening.
RE: They really rip  
Section331 : 9/14/2017 8:57 am : link
In comment 13598236 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
the o line. Also, Papa mentioned that on the all 22 coaches film you can see Dallas defenders running and sitting in spots where the receivers are headed. Basically saying that not only does the o line suck, but often no one is open anyway.




Or this. ;-)
Someone needs to give a specific list  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 9:11 am : link
Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.

RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.


Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.
The criticism of Eli has not generally been "he sucks"  
Mike from Ohio : 9/14/2017 9:27 am : link
or "he is done." They are suggesting, and I think with merrit, that he seems unnerved by the poor protection and is not setting his feet, going through his progressions, or is simply rushing throws. It is a lack of confidence in the line not a lack of skills.

I think it is reasonable that even if the line starts to gel and play better, there may be a lag until Eli starts playing better. This line has been bad for a long time and he is likely going to stay uncomfortable back there until they show consistent improvement.

And I think we all know that this offense has gotten extremely predictable. Hearing that the Cowboys seemed to be going to the spots where the receivers were headed pre-snap certainly seems to back that up. This coaching staff needs to do a better job of self scouting their tendencies and doing something to mix those up.
RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
Section331 : 9/14/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.


Maybe you should read the posts. Hell, just read the front page of the Corner Forum, "Sorry, Eli is the problem", "Is Eli Done?"...and that is without diving into any threads. Sure, many, probably most posters blame the OL, but there are plenty who are calling Eli done, washed up, stunk for years, etc.
RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13598304 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.


You're.

And yes, I'm on record -- Eli needs better OL play in front of him, but can and should also play a bit better than he has over the last 15-20 games as a body of work.

I hope that doesn't trigger you too much more than it has already, pumpkin.
RE: RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 9:42 am : link
In comment 13598319 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13598304 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Not sure how you could of listened to that audio and still think Eli is a part of the problem. Sorry but that just blew up all the people who either say he's the problem or part of the problem. I'm quite confident you and the other posters have never watched the all 22 tape. These guys have. No one is open and no time to throw and no running game. But yup Eli is all or part of the problem. Your on record.



You're.

And yes, I'm on record -- Eli needs better OL play in front of him, but can and should also play a bit better than he has over the last 15-20 games as a body of work.

I hope that doesn't trigger you too much more than it has already, pumpkin.


Hi sweetheart. Doesn't trigger anything other than the fact that now you are trying to backtrack on your Eli stance. You're wrong. Simple.
RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
crick n NC : 9/14/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13598316 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Maybe you should read the posts. Hell, just read the front page of the Corner Forum, "Sorry, Eli is the problem", "Is Eli Done?"...and that is without diving into any threads. Sure, many, probably most posters blame the OL, but there are plenty who are calling Eli done, washed up, stunk for years, etc.


This
Backtrack?  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 9:51 am : link
I've said the same thing over and over and over again.

My takes on Eli have been measured through and through. Show me one instance otherwise.

My reactions to the unabashed apologists who can't handle any criticism of him have not been and will not be as measured.

If you want to be "on the record" as responding to the perfectly reasonable and unemotional opinion that I restated in my last post with nothing more than "you're wrong, plain and simple", then you're all set and this informative exchange between us has run its course.

Take care.
I feel the criticism  
crick n NC : 9/14/2017 9:55 am : link
Is for the most part unwarranted. I also feel us fans don't know nearly what we think we do.
RE: Backtrack?  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13598343 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
I've said the same thing over and over and over again.

My takes on Eli have been measured through and through. Show me one instance otherwise.

My reactions to the unabashed apologists who can't handle any criticism of him have not been and will not be as measured.

If you want to be "on the record" as responding to the perfectly reasonable and unemotional opinion that I restated in my last post with nothing more than "you're wrong, plain and simple", then you're all set and this informative exchange between us has run its course.

Take care.



Yup with the evidence in your face you still have the same opinion. Even with Bob and David telling you the facts you still won't admit you're wrong. Guess that's how you roll. Glad you decided to go. See ya!!
Eli is completing his passes at a high rate...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/14/2017 10:00 am : link
other than the INT, he's executing this offense to the best of his ability.

Having said that, there's still room for him to improve as well. And personally, I'd like him to be a bit more aggressive instead of always going with the checkdowns.

We are a team whose hallmark is poor execution. We shouldn't be just taking what the defense gives us, since that means we have to consistently execute a dozen times a drive to be in the red zone.
RE: RE: Someone needs to give a specific list  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13598316 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598288 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


Of the posters who are putting all (or even most) of the blame on Eli. There are maybe one or two.

Some of you are basically mocking a strawman when you call out some anti-Eli mob.

Save for one or two completely ludicrous posts, The "Eli blamers" have blamed the OL + Eli + coaching.

Read the posts. The people backlashing against any blame being cast toward Eli are providing less insight and more useless drivel than the unspecified group people they are trying to call out.




Maybe you should read the posts. Hell, just read the front page of the Corner Forum, "Sorry, Eli is the problem", "Is Eli Done?"...and that is without diving into any threads. Sure, many, probably most posters blame the OL, but there are plenty who are calling Eli done, washed up, stunk for years, etc.


I guess that's fair enough, Section. I've become adept at ignoring the one-line posts saying ridiculous shit that basically amounts to nothing more than trolling, so they aren't even part of my mental accounting of the opinion of the BBI collective. I'm thinking of people who engage in discussion rather than the drive-by keyboard diarrhea.

So maybe I do under-state the anti-Eli crowd. (I still think people should tune out those obviously troll-ish posts).
Dan  
crick n NC : 9/14/2017 10:04 am : link
I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if it's that simple to just say, he should be more aggressive, aggressive is good if there is opportunity, which I don't feel there was Sunday night. Aggressively throwing into coverage doesn't typically turn out well
Good listen  
trueblueinpw : 9/14/2017 10:04 am : link
I just subscribed to the podcast on my phone so I'm looking forward to listening all season.

It sure sounds to me like coaching is a huge part of the problem. DD also seems to be saying there is a lack of communication among the linemen. Stunts for example during the Cowboy game might have been handled if the G and T adjusted in a particular way.

If you have Double D on again, can you ask him why he thinks guys aren't communicating with pre snap adjustments? The O line has been together long enough that they should be talking and adjusting. Is this coaching too?
Another criticism of Eli...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/14/2017 10:04 am : link
that I believe is warranted is that he's completely immobile, which contributes to the stalls in the offense. Thankfully he has amazing pocket presence, but he is not a threat on the move and does not take advantage of large gaps in the pocket like other QB's can. That's just part of his game, and when he's being paid like he is it is fair to point out this shortcoming of his.

Look, he's our guy, and I love Eli. It's okay though to be critical of him and everyone else on our offense right now though. It's not a binary (for/against) situation with Eli.
Eli is "PART" of the problem  
micky : 9/14/2017 10:05 am : link
not solely, which some can't comprehend because fear of "any" criticism towards him..The criticism is "NOT" bashing the guy or what he has accomplished as a giants qb..its current situation. Plus, related Eli as to what he did 6 years ago to current is a wrong measurement for or what kind of qb he is now. Eli 6 years ago is very different Eli is now..like it or not..sorry.
RE: Dan  
Dan in the Springs : 9/14/2017 10:12 am : link
In comment 13598360 crick n NC said:
Quote:
I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if it's that simple to just say, he should be more aggressive, aggressive is good if there is opportunity, which I don't feel there was Sunday night. Aggressively throwing into coverage doesn't typically turn out well


True, to an extent. Here's the problem.

If your strategy is to read the defense and then take what they give you, you allow the defense to dictate the game. In this case, all defenses are going the same direction against us. Show a 2-deep look and drop your underneath coverage at the sticks. Eli reads the defense correctly and sees the easy completion underneath first. He will then take those yards almost always, not even seeing if/when things are opening up downfield. Happens consistently on third down. We led (or were second iirc) the league in three-and-outs last year. This is why.

You have to take a few more chances, a few more times a game. Doesn't mean throwing into triple-coverage, but you've got to take your shots downfield.
We should probably just lock the thread  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 10:14 am : link
map711 already told us that there are facts proving that Eli is entirely blameless. Facts! So if you think otherwise, just pack it up and go home.
Great listen. BUT alarming to hear him talk about this OLine and  
Blue21 : 9/14/2017 10:16 am : link
not improving. And what they are doing wrong. Also the point about not rolling Eli out. I was mentioning this to people during the game. Has he become that immobile now they won't do it at all? They certainly needed to against Dallas.The coaches keep defending this line about it's improvement and it's certainly not showing it. Hope it starts to come together soon. Eli won't survive and 11-5 season won't happen again. We were very fortunate last year.
Diehl is crushing the line, and he has the technical knowledge to know  
PatersonPlank : 9/14/2017 10:24 am : link
what he his talking about. I am now convinced its the line and not Eli. Every expert I have heard who has reviewed the tapes say its the OL, not Eli. Even if the WR's do get open, Eli has no time to wait for them and go through his progressions. We also can't run. It makes it very easy for the defense when they can get sacks with only 4 rushers.
RE: We should probably just lock the thread  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 10:26 am : link
In comment 13598374 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
map711 already told us that there are facts proving that Eli is entirely blameless. Facts! So if you think otherwise, just pack it up and go home.


Yup keep ignoring the facts and not commenting on them. Because what Bob and David just told you was that it's not Eli. Are you saying they're wrong??
Don't forget Chip Kelly's Eagles either.  
BigBlueWhale : 9/14/2017 10:26 am : link
Remember how they were so thoroughly able to dismantle us? Chip basically said they knew all of our plays, our checks.

This is what I'm talking about when I say McAdoo's sucked his entire 4 years here. His scheme is garbage. Sure it will work sometimes, but overall, it's garbage.

We can't get rid of this guy soon enough. He is terrifying.
Dan  
crick n NC : 9/14/2017 10:27 am : link
First let me say, I appreciate your posts on this forum. I look forward to reading your thoughts.

As for your most recent post, I don't think it's the teams "strategy" to take what the defense gives us. I think Mac stresses the importance of taking care of the ball as a qb, I think it's possible he stresses it more than Coughlin did. So I think we have a couple of things going on, I you have the qb being a little to careful on coaches instructions, lack of anyone being open, and third the OL. What Dave Diehl said on the podcast about Dallas just sitting, or knowing where our we were going to be isn't good news in the least bit. One thing that I feel I have heard a lot, is that Mac's offense is easy to defend, it certainly looked easy to defend Sunday night.

Now does adding a mobile qb who can throw the ball, and most importantly know where and when to throw the ball make this offense better? Of course, but if we're attempting to fit Eli in an offense that isn't designed for him, then we should get used to struggle, although Eli played well early under Mac's offense. Although we were told Coughlin and Mac combined offenses.
As for John Jerry...  
BigBlueWhale : 9/14/2017 10:30 am : link
...it shouldn't even matter who his OL Coach is. How long has he been playing RG? 106 games and he can't recognize a simple T/E Twist? When a DT crosses his face he should know the twist is coming and keep his shoulders SQUARE to the LOS to not allow a gap.

How a guy can care enough to go to Bentley's boot camp, start 86 games but still not be able to get this very simple concept is beyond ridiculous. He should be cut with extreme prejudice.

At the end of the day, though, you can't blame these guys. They are likely doing the best they can. If someone offered me the Head Coach job - I'd take it. You blame the decision-makers.
Another great point made by Papa and Diehl, other than the lousy  
PatersonPlank : 9/14/2017 10:33 am : link
OL play, is that the Cowboys DB's knew our WR routes. Papa said if you watch the tape the D was moving to the spots even before the WR's sometimes. This is the MacAdoo side of the issue. Make a game plan to win with what you have, not a game plan to push a specific offensive belief. Its obvious other teams know what we are doing, it needs to adjust.
What a great listen this is - Diehl talking about the Pats D  
PatersonPlank : 9/14/2017 10:37 am : link
trash talking at the start of the 2 minute drive in the 2011 SB. The Pats D was telling Diehl and the guys that the game is over, you should just kneel on it and end it. Ha ha ha.

He also said no one on the OL knew Tyree had caught the ball on his helmet. They just heard the crowd roar, knew it was a completion, and got up to run another play. It wasn't until a timeout when they looked up at the jumbotron that they realized what happened.
RE: RE: We should probably just lock the thread  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13598390 map7711 said:
Quote:
In comment 13598374 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


map711 already told us that there are facts proving that Eli is entirely blameless. Facts! So if you think otherwise, just pack it up and go home.



Yup keep ignoring the facts and not commenting on them. Because what Bob and David just told you was that it's not Eli. Are you saying they're wrong??


I don't think "facts" means what you think it does.

I don't think Bob or David would tell you that over the last 15-20 games of Giants offense, that Eli is 100% blameless or shouldn't play better. (That's just a prediction -- I certainly won't put words in Bob's mouth. I know he posts and lurks here from time to time, so maybe he can share some thoughts on Eli's play over that stretch).

I happen to agree with them that the OL is the biggest of the problems (both Sunday night and last season). There really isn't anyone disputing that thought. After that, it's very difficult to tell on specific plays/drives how much is Eli versus coaching/play-calling, but they both bear some of it in my view.
Everybody realizes both the scheme  
BigBlueWhale : 9/14/2017 10:50 am : link
and the OLine sucks.

The problem is - that has ruined Eli. I think that's what people are saying when they say he's cooked. His internal clock is destroyed because of this ridiculous scheme and OLine. And the OLine's been bad for 7 years.

Giants management caused this decline by what they allowed to happen with the offense around him. But make no mistake about it: he's terrible, just as any other QB would be under these circumstances. The toll its taken is very real.
RE: RE: RE: We should probably just lock the thread  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 10:50 am : link
In comment 13598414 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13598390 map7711 said:


Quote:


In comment 13598374 bigbluehoya said:


Quote:


map711 already told us that there are facts proving that Eli is entirely blameless. Facts! So if you think otherwise, just pack it up and go home.



Yup keep ignoring the facts and not commenting on them. Because what Bob and David just told you was that it's not Eli. Are you saying they're wrong??



I don't think "facts" means what you think it does.

I don't think Bob or David would tell you that over the last 15-20 games of Giants offense, that Eli is 100% blameless or shouldn't play better. (That's just a prediction -- I certainly won't put words in Bob's mouth. I know he posts and lurks here from time to time, so maybe he can share some thoughts on Eli's play over that stretch).

I happen to agree with them that the OL is the biggest of the problems (both Sunday night and last season). There really isn't anyone disputing that thought. After that, it's very difficult to tell on specific plays/drives how much is Eli versus coaching/play-calling, but they both bear some of it in my view.


Well you have no idea what they would say so that's a moot point. I do think you never have liked Eli and see this as an opportunity to bash him. It just seems that way. Because you do admit this OL is bad and it's the same OL as last year. So with a poor OL, no running game, and WRs not getting open, little time to throw, how in the world do expect Eli to play better?
Where have I bashed Eli?  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 10:51 am : link
Thanks in advance.
Also  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 11:03 am : link
Did you happen to read the game review by Sy '56 and his analysis of Eli?

Spoiler alert: You won't like it.

I use to that only as one counterpoint to show that it's possible a well-informed football mind to think Eli's play could be better.

If anything, I find it to be a tad harsh.
RE: Where have I bashed Eli?  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13598421 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Thanks in advance.


I do admit you haven't bashed him like some other posters. But it does come off as disingenuous when you say it's partially his fault or he needs to play better. Because with all the other bad things happening around him, even partially blaming him seems ridiculous. There's no reason for it really. Other than you don't like him. Because anyone who listened to Bob and David breaking down that game, why would you just throw out the Eli needs to play better statement? The same problems that this team had on Sunday are the same as last year. And on Sunday, it was even worse without our star WR to at least give Eli some help.
Read the Sy '56 review  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 11:12 am : link
I'm sure you know his background, but in case you don't, he's a scout. For a living.

It doesn't make what he says a fact or necessarily spot on, but saying that Eli should be better isn't an outrageous position to take.
There is nothing wrong with criticizing Eli's play.  
Section331 : 9/14/2017 11:18 am : link
He didn't play well Sunday night, and deserves some of the flack sent his way. However, what he doesn't deserve is to shoulder all, or even most of the blame, and he certainly doesn't deserve to be called "done" after one lousy game.
Section  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 11:22 am : link
Agree, but I'd add that I think it is about as ridiculous to deny that he deserves any of the blame as to suggest that he deserves all of it.

Both extremes are completely ridiculous.
RE: Section  
map7711 : 9/14/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13598455 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Agree, but I'd add that I think it is about as ridiculous to deny that he deserves any of the blame as to suggest that he deserves all of it.

Both extremes are completely ridiculous.



But uf you give him time to throw and the WRs get open he'll play better. If he has a running game that makes the defense at least respect it, he will play better. Unless you think he won't play better under better conditions? So again, I don't understand the Eli needs to play better thing. Great QBs have looked bad under constant pressure. We've seen this time and time again. Why is Eli being held under a different standard? We all know the game plan for all QBs. Pressure them constantly and they will look bad. It's been a game plan for as long as the league has been around. Eli is no different.
The last thing I will say  
bigbluehoya : 9/14/2017 11:36 am : link
You seem determined not to give an inch on this. It comes of as homerish. That's fine. It's your prerogative.

But you should just be aware that you are the one at the extreme, not the people suggesting that Eli gets a non-zero share of the blame for the way this offense has performed recently.
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