This board has been killing Eli over the last week, with calls for him being replaced or saying that he is no longer the QB he used to be and needs to retire.
Through 2 games now, the 29 year old Andy Dalton has the following stats:
54.4 Completion %
394 Passing Yards
0 TD's
4 INT's
47.2 Passer Rating
This is a 3-time Pro Bowler. He has a plethora of weapons on his offense. Looks like losing his All-Pro LT might have had a bigger impact on the offense than the Bengals anticipated. Dalton no longer has time to find all of his weapons and the offense has scored a whopping 9 points in 2 games. Sound familiar? Has Dalton also lost it after being a Pro Bowler just last year? Amazing what a crappy OL can do to a good QB.
Maybe your intent?
The problem the Giants have...is they have a pocket passer on a team that has difficulty protecting him.
So... great point?
(note: this is not a shit on Eli discussion. He's our guy, etc. But i dont understand the point of this thread -- "hey this other guy on an AFC team sucks too so go easy on Eli and this means its not his fault!!")
Maybe your intent?
So... great point?
(note: this is not a shit on Eli discussion. He's our guy, etc. But i dont understand the point of this thread -- "hey this other guy on an AFC team sucks too so go easy on Eli and this means its not his fault!!")
My point is, many people, outside of you, have said Dalton was good QB prior to this year, as evidence of his Pro Bowl performance just last year. Yet all of the sudden, his performance has fallen off of a cliff. The main reason for that is his absolutely dreadful OL. If you cant see that that is the point of the thread, im not sure what else to say.
Eli's poor performance on Sunday ... had very little to do with o-line play.
So yeah... still missing the point of this thread? If its that Eli needs 2nd-and-3s (eg a great running game) to succeed, then fine, i guess i see the point. I would expect great QBs not to need a world class running game to succeed, but fine.
Eli's poor performance on Sunday ... had very little to do with o-line play.
So yeah... still missing the point of this thread? If its that Eli needs 2nd-and-3s (eg a great running game) to succeed, then fine, i guess i see the point. I would expect great QBs not to need a world class running game to succeed, but fine.
If you think Eli's poor performance had nothing to do with a poor OL, then I think that's all that needs to be said.
P.S. You dont need a world class running game, you just need A running game. Did you see how many yards the Giants rushed for on Sunday?
Same is true if you think the weak OL play had everything to do with Eli's lousy performance.
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If you think Eli's poor performance had nothing to do with a poor OL, then I think that's all that needs to be said.
Same is true if you think the weak OL play had everything to do with Eli's lousy performance.
I absolutely do not think it has everything to do with it. I thnk posters who say that are wrong. However, I do think it is a big factor. Not having a serviceable OL for 6+ years now.
Regardless if you think he is good or not, most analyst has him ranked as a Top 15 QB. He put up 43 tds to 15 int's over the past 2 years. Those are pretty good stats and the Bengals have had a solid offense the past few years, now they look like one of the worst offenses in the NFL. The skill position players have remained the same. The only difference is that the OL has taken a major step back this year, and in turn the offense has also looked deplorable.
How so? Because you dont agree with it?
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thread.
How so? Because you dont agree with it?
I think it's less that he doesn't agree with it and more that he finds thinly-veiled and reverse-engineered defenses of Eli to be kind of pathetic. Just my interpretation.
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In comment 13599367 Keith said:
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thread.
How so? Because you dont agree with it?
I think it's less that he doesn't agree with it and more that he finds thinly-veiled and reverse-engineered defenses of Eli to be kind of pathetic. Just my interpretation.
Says the 2 people that have been vehemently bashing Eli over the past week. Shocker.
there were a number of times where eli coild of stepped up and jad an open passing lane but instead he panicked and threw it into the ground...
he missed marshall wide open a couple of times, he looked hesitant and not sure of himself, did the ol do a good job? no but eli certainly was part of the problem as well
there were a number of times where eli coild of stepped up and jad an open passing lane but instead he panicked and threw it into the ground...
he missed marshall wide open a couple of times, he looked hesitant and not sure of himself, did the ol do a good job? no but eli certainly was part of the problem as well
Completely agree. Eli did not have a good game at all. He looks unsure of himself and overly jittery. I dont think Eli is blameless in all of this. I do think that the major lack in trust with the OL has a big part of that though, and their general shittiness. That is all I am trying to point out.
I don't think the majority of people are really disputing that Eli (or Andy Dalton) would perform better if the OL was playing better. The question is whether they're actually making a bad situation worse. Even as a huge Eli apologist, I have to say, I think the answer might be yes (and this is VERY clearly the case with Dalton).
When you watch both of them, there are opportunities that are just flat out being missed. Last night, with the game on the line, Dalton was well protected and threw a ball 5 yards short of an open receiver. It wasn't the line's fault...it was his. You see the same thing with Eli too. I understand the "why" as to his lack of confidence in the OL, his altered internal clock, and his general jumpiness in the pocket. But at this point, the reality on the ground is the line is playing poorly AND SO IS ELI. I generally think the blame is correctly placed in every facet....OL-talent, lack of a running game, coaching/scheme, QB play. Improve one and it will alleviate some of the issues with the others.
Just because you arent bashing him as a person doesnt mean you aren't saying he is the biggest culprit for this offenses downfall. You and Hoya have repeatedly said his play has been terrible. While I agree that it hasnt been good, I am only pointing out the reason for it.
I'm just looking for one instance, I won't even hold you to the "repeatedly".
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was offensive line great? absolutely not, waz eli great? absolutely not..
there were a number of times where eli coild of stepped up and jad an open passing lane but instead he panicked and threw it into the ground...
he missed marshall wide open a couple of times, he looked hesitant and not sure of himself, did the ol do a good job? no but eli certainly was part of the problem as well
Completely agree. Eli did not have a good game at all. He looks unsure of himself and overly jittery. I dont think Eli is blameless in all of this. I do think that the major lack in trust with the OL has a big part of that though, and their general shittiness. That is all I am trying to point out.
but qb has to help with this, if you notcie oline play is garbage around the league...
eli has to have better pocket awareness, now if a guy comes untouched that is different, but when the tackles ride the defensive end wide, step up, find the open space...
They are trying to reconstruct the offense on the fly after letting Jones and Sanu walk and it is not going well. They may get it straightened out but at the moment, they've got problems.
On the "Im Sorry, but Eli is the problem thread"?
Keith : 9/13/2017 2:21 pm : link : reply
unfortunately I think you are right.
Is that not you agreeing that Eli is the problem? Sorry if I misread if you werent saying something else.
BBi blows sometimes.
Tell you what, start a reasonable, well thought out thread about Eli and I'll be happy to share my opinion on him and our offense.
Oh and I wasn't agreeing with the thread title, I was agreeing with what was written in the OP.
I'm just looking for one instance, I won't even hold you to the "repeatedly".
[quote]bigbluehoya : 9/13/2017 5:27 pm : link : reply
Nobody is complaining about 2014 Eli right now. We're talking about the last 15-20 games in which the offense's results have been miserable, and Eli's play has been somewhere between poor and fair.[\quote]
Sorry, not terrible, just poor. You said the offense was miserable. Again, I dont totally disagree that Eli has played poorly. Just pointing out that its happening to other qb's too and the common thread is a bad OL.
They are trying to reconstruct the offense on the fly after letting Jones and Sanu walk and it is not going well. They may get it straightened out but at the moment, they've got problems.
AJ Green, Mixon has been raved about by just about every analyst, along with Hill and Bernard. Eifert had a bad back last year, by all accounts he is healthy this year. They just drafted Ross in the first round this year.
This is not a thread about me coming after you. Sorry for turning it into that. I was simply trying to point out how other good QB's have experienced a huge drop off when they do not have an adequate OL. If you disagree, that is fine.
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You clearly caught me red handed "repeatedly bashing Eli". I'm sorry.
This is not a thread about me coming after you. Sorry for turning it into that. I was simply trying to point out how other good QB's have experienced a huge drop off when they do not have an adequate OL. If you disagree, that is fine.
or dalton is just garbage? i saw multiple times he missed wide open receivers
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In comment 13599420 Keith said:
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You clearly caught me red handed "repeatedly bashing Eli". I'm sorry.
This is not a thread about me coming after you. Sorry for turning it into that. I was simply trying to point out how other good QB's have experienced a huge drop off when they do not have an adequate OL. If you disagree, that is fine.
or dalton is just garbage? i saw multiple times he missed wide open receivers
I mean, he may or may not be garbage. How do garbage QB's become 3 time pro bowlers though? Major flaw in the system 3 times?
Dalton missed opportunities last night. I didn't watch their first game, but last night wasn't solely on the OL.
In regards to Eli, the OL hasn't been good, but he's left some opportunities on the field and this is going back to last year. We need Eli to step his game up and if he's still elite, he should be able to step up more than he has. It's not all on Eli and it's only one game(one where arguably the best offensive threat in the NFL was out), but he still left some opportunities out there. We shouldn't expect Eli to be Dalton, we should expect Eli to play better than he is, because he is better than he's playing.
He's playing scared, IMO. He's never liked to get hit, but now he's watching the rush more than the progressions and that's a problem. We need Eli to step up.
i really always saw dalton as someone who has talent but would never carry a team, he is a game manager..
Dalton missed opportunities last night. I didn't watch their first game, but last night wasn't solely on the OL.
In regards to Eli, the OL hasn't been good, but he's left some opportunities on the field and this is going back to last year. We need Eli to step his game up and if he's still elite, he should be able to step up more than he has. It's not all on Eli and it's only one game(one where arguably the best offensive threat in the NFL was out), but he still left some opportunities out there. We shouldn't expect Eli to be Dalton, we should expect Eli to play better than he is, because he is better than he's playing.
He's playing scared, IMO. He's never liked to get hit, but now he's watching the rush more than the progressions and that's a problem. We need Eli to step up.
Agreed that Eli needs to play better. He is shell shocked. I also think he cant do it by himself though. He is 36, not 30. He needs time and cant be expected to constantly step up in the pocket on each play. You cannot go through your reads while scrambling. You end up getting locked on 1-2 WR's in that case. Which seems to be what is happening.
i really always saw dalton as someone who has talent but would never carry a team, he is a game manager..
Fair opinion. I dont disagree. I used Dalton as an example, and it is probably not a great one. Eli is a much better QB. I merely was trying to point out that their offense, with all of their weapons and an offense that was top half in the league last year, has now dropped to possibly one of the worst in the league.
He's playing scared though. Its not like every drop back is pressure. There are plenty of times throughout a game where he has a pocket and he's not doing what he's suppsoed to do or he's missing a guy or he doesn't look to his 2nd or 3rd read. That's on him.
Someone posted a link yesterday to defend Eli and it's amazing that people blame the line for that play. It was the play where Eli missed Marshall. He had 2 guys wide open to the left, but eli felt pressure coming from the right and threw it towards his first read. A QB playing well will dump that to the RB easy for a first down. A guy posed a question on that play, how is he supposed to know Vereen was open when he had a guy in his face? Should he not read the LB's dropping into a zone? Does he not know that his RB's job is to leak into that space? It was an easy play, but Eli heard footsteps and made a bad play. There are a handful of those plays per game. If we have any shot, we need Eli to maximize those plays we do get.
I think this thread got misconstrued. The bar is most certainly not set at Dalton and I wasnt comparing Eli to Dalton, per say. Eli is the much better QB, I dont think that is even a debate. I think this trend will continue this weekend as well, as we saw plenty of bad QB play from Brady, all the way down to Scott Tolzien. The point is the HORRIBLE OL play that seems to be league wide. I am just hoping McAdoo and Co. really earn their money here and adjust to this, or else its going to be a long season.