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Eli Manning

BlackburnBalledOut : 9/15/2017 10:03 am
Everyone is killing Eli on here and im curious as to what game they were watching on Sunday?

Manning completed 76% of his passes and had 29 completions. Hes only completed more then 76% of his passes 7 times in his career. He has only completed more then 29 passes 11 times.

Whats bothersome to me is that those 29 passes went for a measley 220 yards. 7.5 y/rec

In the first half he had 8 completions for 33 yards. Thats 4.25 yards per completions. Think about that. How uneffective and pathetic it is thats what the objective is?

We know the line isnt good but this play calling is just terrible.The Giants only attempted to run the ball 12 times on sunday, as opposed to 38 passes. Thats right they threw the ball more then 3x as much as they ran it. there has to be a commitment to the run game, it opens up play action and makes the defense honest. Especially in a short passing offense.


All the defense has to do is play closer to the L.O.S, stack the box and clog the passing lanes. , theres no need to worry about anything over the top bc the Giants simply dont throw the more more then 6 yards anymore.

Shepard had 7 catches for 44 yards. 6 y/r
Vereen had 9 catches for 51 yards 5.7 y/r

Those were your leading receivers combining for 16 catches and 95 yards.

95 yards on 16 completions. WHAT THE FUCK IS MCADOO DOING????

Engram was brought here to stretch the field. I dont think i saw him running down the seam once last week.

In the third qtr the giants had 3rd and 1. They came out in a 5 WR set. no attempt to even have the defense think "well, maybe they're running it here" They failed to convert but Dallas committed a penalty.

This is the kind of uncreative and stale playcalling that haunted us last year. No rushing attempts, terrible T.O.P, and no real attempt to move the ball. ELi manning is not the problem. The problem is the coach and his chicken shit play calling

Did you watch him?  
superspynyg : 9/15/2017 10:06 am : link
His confidence is gone.
RE: Did you watch him?  
Ira : 9/15/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13599350 superspynyg said:
Quote:
His confidence is gone.


Did you mean to say that his confidence in his blocking is gone?
what is he doing?  
mattlawson : 9/15/2017 10:14 am : link
if you read any of the transcripts and deduce anything - you will know that the game plan was all about moving the ball methodically down the field. it didnt happen in the first half. OL breakdowns, lack of seperation from receivers, dallas' D sitting in holes where our receivers were going to go -- Eli did what he could by taking what the defense gave him. That was essentially what eli was doing.

Not scoring the TD on the long drive was the game. Defense gave up, and it emboldened the Cowboys.
Eli is successfully dumping the ball off  
AnnapolisMike : 9/15/2017 10:14 am : link
when he feels pressure. I'd like to see them move Eli out of the pocket on rollouts to give things a little more time to develop.

One of my knocks...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2017 10:15 am : link
on the WCO is that it seems awfully choreographed. By that I mean, the quarterback is often conditioned to dump the ball off in reaction to what the defense is doing.

I'll talk about this in my game preview, but it is very clear what is happening:

(1) Giants have big play weapons.
(2) The Giants can't run.
(3) Giants have issues converting on 3rd down.

So it is obvious what defenses will do: prevent the big play and make the Giants beat you by dinking and dunking the ball down the field. Odds are that they will fail on 3rd down somewhere along the way. It's smart defense.

So the Giants have to run the ball better, convert more on third down, or start taking bigger shots down the field despite coverage (this could lead to more turnovers and/or sacks).
His confidence is gone??  
Danthebigbluefan : 9/15/2017 10:16 am : link
How the hell can you tell that from one game where the offense as a whole was putrid?

Enough arm-chair quarterbacking on here, people. I get it, Eli wasn't terrific. But come on. Saying that he's done and he's lost confidence and he's not a good enough QB is asinine.

It's one game where the offensive line issues were at the forefront of the entire offensive side of the ball's problems.

Oh, and he didn't have his best offensive player and arguably the best WR in the league at his disposal.

Eli's high completion percentage can be equated to the check-downs - of which there were a lot. But what do you expect when the guy knows he has less than 5 seconds to get the ball out of his hands? Watch any NFL football in the last decade and you'll see these QBs who had super high completion percentages (cough Dak Prescott last year cough) and it's a result of constantly throwing underneath because either no one is open downfield or you don't have time.

WTF is McAdoo doing? He's trying to run an offense with the entire playcalling and execution relying on a QB releasing the ball within 5 seconds of the snap or he's getting sacked. Not many OC's around the league are going to be able to have a great deal of success with that.
It's the scheme  
averagejoe : 9/15/2017 10:16 am : link
and McAdoo-doo is an idiot. Giant offense looks like it is actually trying to NOT score. He does not challenge defense to defend the whole field. They are in our face all the time knowing they can pressure with 3 or 4 DL and that Giants can't run. Eli is shell shocked and handcuffed by a horrible OL and horrible game plan.
he also single-handedly ended the game  
GiantNatty : 9/15/2017 10:22 am : link
with an awful interception. sorry, but completion percentage means little more than nothing if you kill all chances of winning with an excuseless turnover at a crucial point in the game...
His confidence is gone?  
Giant John : 9/15/2017 10:27 am : link
That's a joke. More like his blocking is missing and receivers can't get separation.
RE: One of my knocks...  
Racer : 9/15/2017 10:32 am : link
In comment 13599370 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
on the WCO is that it seems awfully choreographed. By that I mean, the quarterback is often conditioned to dump the ball off in reaction to what the defense is doing.

I'll talk about this in my game preview, but it is very clear what is happening:

(1) Giants have big play weapons.
(2) The Giants can't run.
(3) Giants have issues converting on 3rd down.

So it is obvious what defenses will do: prevent the big play and make the Giants beat you by dinking and dunking the ball down the field. Odds are that they will fail on 3rd down somewhere along the way. It's smart defense.

So the Giants have to run the ball better, convert more on third down, or start taking bigger shots down the field despite coverage (this could lead to more turnovers and/or sacks).


I'll add that the route combos of a WCO are supposed to clear out areas, but as BP said on the Papacast, Dallas defenders were drifting TO the open spaces, and we know Bob is watching film with Banks, Diehl, et al so I feel pretty strongly that the criticism is legit.

McAdoo did such a good job in OBJ's rookie year showing different looks to find any way to get him the ball. Bunch sets, stacks, the detail doesn't matter; it's time to stop relying solely on the theoretical benefits of the system.

Do everything Eric mentioned plus move the pocket on occasion to make Eli's launch point a little less predictable (Diehl).

Boss, Ballard, Bennett all had huge yards-per-attempt in the second half of games because they worked them across the field early and went sail route or up the seam later in the game. These are throws that made Eli Eli. There might be a little less 'sting' potential because of Engram's speed, but he has to become a big part of the offense.
RE: One of my knocks...  
Motley Two : 9/15/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13599370 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
on the WCO is that it seems awfully choreographed. By that I mean, the quarterback is often conditioned to dump the ball off in reaction to what the defense is doing.

I'll talk about this in my game preview, but it is very clear what is happening:

(1) Giants have big play weapons.
(2) The Giants can't run.
(3) Giants have issues converting on 3rd down.

So it is obvious what defenses will do: prevent the big play and make the Giants beat you by dinking and dunking the ball down the field. Odds are that they will fail on 3rd down somewhere along the way. It's smart defense.

So the Giants have to run the ball better, convert more on third down, or start taking bigger shots down the field despite coverage (this could lead to more turnovers and/or sacks).


Let's call the WCO what it is. It's Bitch Ball.
Does this topic really need another thread?  
Section331 : 9/15/2017 10:39 am : link
I've been defending Eli all week, but his completion % is a flawed stat to show he didn't play badly. Down 2 scores with a minute to go, he was throwing checkdowns to Vereen.

Eli didn't play well, regardless of what his comp % was. There are likely a number of reasons for that - poor OL play, Odell being out, Eli not being in sync with the new pieces on offense - but that doesn't change the fact that he needs to play better. They all do.
We all had our issues with  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2017 10:40 am : link
KG but man, when that offense was clicking it was unstoppable. McAdoo has certainly had some great moments and games from the offense...but where is there a signature game? Where is the creativity?
Granted it was the Saints  
ryanmkeane : 9/15/2017 10:41 am : link
and in the dome, but that game - that was an incredibly called game from start to finish. And the OL was basically the same as it is now. What happened since then?
RE: One of my knocks...  
Essex : 9/15/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13599370 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
on the WCO is that it seems awfully choreographed. By that I mean, the quarterback is often conditioned to dump the ball off in reaction to what the defense is doing.

I'll talk about this in my game preview, but it is very clear what is happening:

(1) Giants have big play weapons.
(2) The Giants can't run.
(3) Giants have issues converting on 3rd down.

So it is obvious what defenses will do: prevent the big play and make the Giants beat you by dinking and dunking the ball down the field. Odds are that they will fail on 3rd down somewhere along the way. It's smart defense.

So the Giants have to run the ball better, convert more on third down, or start taking bigger shots down the field despite coverage (this could lead to more turnovers and/or sacks).


The Giants do not have big play weapons, they have a big play weapon in OBJ, some guys we think can be big play weapons but have been unproven, and an old BM who we are hoping will be good enough to move the sticks.
But I agree the offense we run requires efficiency that we did not demonstrate last year or last week. If our offense is going to succeed we are going to have to see just much better efficiency, which is why I am still puzzled about cutting Will Tye. He is a guy who caught the ball and got open often, even if no YAC. Again, Will Tye isn't the answer to making this offense work, but he was useful.
RE: Granted it was the Saints  
jvm52106 : 9/15/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13599421 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
and in the dome, but that game - that was an incredibly called game from start to finish. And the OL was basically the same as it is now. What happened since then?


I would never use that game or any game where we trailed as the bell ringer. Its too easy to compile stats against bad teams and teams who have leads who let up or allow a lot of stuff in front of them. The Saints defense was pretty bad.

To me the answer to good offense vs bad offense is when the other team wants to or needs to stop you and they know what you are going to do but can't stop it anyway. We can't run when we need to (to establish it or to get short yardage or to run the clock) and our passing game cannot stand up to pressure (even with it being basic pressure) period.. We are a bad offense right now due to many factors.

Please stop using com % as a way of establishing success. That means nothing!!! If you complete 3 passes out of 3 it is 100% com %.. If you gained only 9 yards it is still 4th and 1.. Is that success?

While the OP calls out the chicken shit coach and his play calling  
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2017 11:10 am : link
Eli is a veteran QB that has more than enough authority to change things at the line and execute other plays.

You sure you want to only blame Mac?
You're pumping up Eli with the completion %  
allstarjim : 9/15/2017 11:27 am : link
stat and yet explaining why that stat is worthless in the rest of your argument.

Obviously, if you only throw very short, safe passes, you are going to have a high completion %, but it doesn't lend itself to a very effective offense, as you noted.

In addition, on the throws he missed, they were pretty bad misses, and the INT was terrible, not a throw that Eli should've made at all.

The emphasis on this offense is to get the ball out as quick as possible. Not get the ball to the open receiver and going through reads to do so. One can debate the merits of each, but in any case the Giants absolutely must have a bigger commitment to running the ball as well as taking deep shots and intermediate throws.
RE: It's the scheme  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13599372 averagejoe said:
Quote:
and McAdoo-doo is an idiot. Giant offense looks like it is actually trying to NOT score. He does not challenge defense to defend the whole field. They are in our face all the time knowing they can pressure with 3 or 4 DL and that Giants can't run. Eli is shell shocked and handcuffed by a horrible OL and horrible game plan.

You act like the scheme only has one receiver per play. There ARE deep route concepts happening on each play. Between some combination of the OL and Eli's read (largely dictated by what the defense gives him) plays a big part in the low Y/A and Y/C. It's not as if the offense is set up to throw 6 yards/attempt.

But by all means, go ahead and blame McAdoo. That's probably easier for you to wrap your head around.
RE: RE: It's the scheme  
averagejoe : 9/15/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13599495 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13599372 averagejoe said:


Quote:


and McAdoo-doo is an idiot. Giant offense looks like it is actually trying to NOT score. He does not challenge defense to defend the whole field. They are in our face all the time knowing they can pressure with 3 or 4 DL and that Giants can't run. Eli is shell shocked and handcuffed by a horrible OL and horrible game plan.


You act like the scheme only has one receiver per play. There ARE deep route concepts happening on each play. Between some combination of the OL and Eli's read (largely dictated by what the defense gives him) plays a big part in the low Y/A and Y/C. It's not as if the offense is set up to throw 6 yards/attempt.

But by all means, go ahead and blame McAdoo. That's probably easier for you to wrap your head around.


As you should know Eli has no time to allow the deep routes to come open. That is why underneath crossing patterns are the only throws he can complete. Every DC knows this as well. Actually Mac's offense is set up to throw 6 yards/attempt. That is the problem.
No blocking or the PERCEPTION of no blocking  
SHO'NUFF : 9/15/2017 11:49 am : link
will have an effect on any QB.
stats don't always tell story or can be manipulated to  
micky : 9/15/2017 11:50 am : link
ones agenda. dump offs add to high completion % but doesn't reflect his play sunday..which showed a shell shocked horrific at times qb
........  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 9/15/2017 11:59 am : link
If teams played Aaron Rodgers like they played Eli, he'd be ripping off 8 to 12 yard scrambles until they adjusted.

The bad oline is magnified by the zero respect defenses show to Eli's ability to scramble or extend a play
Anyone's confidence would be gone  
Koffman : 9/15/2017 12:18 pm : link
If they had inept ofeensive linemen who couldnt get out of thier own way and fell over each other on every play.
This is a thought  
Bleedin Blue : 9/15/2017 12:46 pm : link
From 24/7 sports
Link - ( New Window )
I think Eli plays better.....  
BillKo : 9/15/2017 1:00 pm : link
even with the same OL play.

His internal game day clock now has a full game under his belt, and I expect he'll make different decisions, and also probably try to be a bit more daring, esp playing at home.

Despite being a vet, I don't think you re-create that scenario without actually experiencing it.

He's got a taste of it, I expect he'll adjust.

RE: One of my knocks...  
bigbluehoya : 9/15/2017 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13599370 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
on the WCO is that it seems awfully choreographed. By that I mean, the quarterback is often conditioned to dump the ball off in reaction to what the defense is doing.

I'll talk about this in my game preview, but it is very clear what is happening:

(1) Giants have big play weapons.
(2) The Giants can't run.
(3) Giants have issues converting on 3rd down.

So it is obvious what defenses will do: prevent the big play and make the Giants beat you by dinking and dunking the ball down the field. Odds are that they will fail on 3rd down somewhere along the way. It's smart defense.

So the Giants have to run the ball better, convert more on third down, or start taking bigger shots down the field despite coverage (this could lead to more turnovers and/or sacks).


I agree with a lot of this post.

Couple of additional thoughts:

- McAdoo needs to infuse some life into the running playbook to get the ball outside on the ground. This OL won't afford enough time or power for the stretch play. Pitches and tosses outside to the RB on the strong side as well as the weak side. Jet sweep to a WR. Use more of the end around motion that they have shown, but actually hand it off to the WR more. Don't be afraid to go back to it repeatedly if it's there. These don't need to be big play gadgets that go back into the bag once used. 4-5 yards is a big play for this team right now on early downs.

- more early down work for Vereen and hand the ball off to him. Invest in making that personnel grouping less predictable.

- DONT BE AFRAID TO RUN THE BALL ON THIRD-AND-<5

- go up-tempo for short (or long) bursts. This one requires a few actual first downs to implement.

As these things start to get you rolling and less predictable, be more liberal with taking a few risks downfield.

I like McAdoo but the problem  
GiantTuff1 : 9/15/2017 1:22 pm : link
is he is feeding into the entire O's lack of confidence by not letting these guys establish any confidence in themselves if he's telling them hey we need to throw every 1.5 seconds...

That's basically telling your o-line they are all pieces of shit, which is sort of true, but I would think that further crushes their spirit. And if the objective is to just throw fast each time wouldn't that speed up the clock in a QB's head too...? Seems the focus is to just get the ball out rather than scan for a bigger play, or improvise towards one. As Eric said, things are a little too choreographed b/c of the super quick throws, allows for nothing natural to develop. Eli's strength is a bit of that backyard baller.

So simply, McAdoo and his staff aren't seeing the forest through the trees.

What happened to the McAdoo that was preaching that his offense was going to be an aggressive up-tempo one... I'm seeing a total lack of aggressiveness, and "chicken shit" is sort of the proper descriptor for how the games are being called. Grow a fucking sack and let it rip.

I'd rather get sacked 4-7 times during a game, and get some deep shots down the field, play call mixture, and a chance to actually generate confidence with the guys, and momentum to SCORE TD's and for the love of God more than 20 freaking points, than the dog shit we've been experiencing. At least we tried. This offense feels like the old prevent defense mentality, the only thing it does it prevent scoring.

They should mix up the drop backs a little more, throw in some deeper pass objectives. Is this risky because the o-line sucks? Fuck yeah it is. But the alternative is not working, we look worse than a pee wee football team.

Stop folding on every hand McAdoo, and try going for the jugular a little more, and see what happens.


p.s. Go back to the old hair style hoss. It's more you.
RE: RE: RE: It's the scheme  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 1:26 pm : link
In comment 13599510 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 13599495 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 13599372 averagejoe said:


Quote:


and McAdoo-doo is an idiot. Giant offense looks like it is actually trying to NOT score. He does not challenge defense to defend the whole field. They are in our face all the time knowing they can pressure with 3 or 4 DL and that Giants can't run. Eli is shell shocked and handcuffed by a horrible OL and horrible game plan.


You act like the scheme only has one receiver per play. There ARE deep route concepts happening on each play. Between some combination of the OL and Eli's read (largely dictated by what the defense gives him) plays a big part in the low Y/A and Y/C. It's not as if the offense is set up to throw 6 yards/attempt.

But by all means, go ahead and blame McAdoo. That's probably easier for you to wrap your head around.



As you should know Eli has no time to allow the deep routes to come open. That is why underneath crossing patterns are the only throws he can complete. Every DC knows this as well. Actually Mac's offense is set up to throw 6 yards/attempt. That is the problem.

Do yourself a favor and check out the Reddit thread on this. At least this past Sunday, Eli was locked onto one receiver, typically a short/medium crossing pattern or a hook/curl. He didn't look off the receiver or go through his progressions to even look for a deeper route breaking free.

Part of it is that he doesn't always have time, and part of it is when he does have time, he doesn't think he will have time so he rushes anyway.
Eli  
afann : 9/15/2017 2:48 pm : link
Doesn't have time to look at another WR. Look what happened at the goal line. He was going to throw to Marshall but the safety started to drift over. He saw engram wide open but it's was too late because he got sacked.
RE: Eli  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 2:51 pm : link
In comment 13599790 afann said:
Quote:
Doesn't have time to look at another WR. Look what happened at the goal line. He was going to throw to Marshall but the safety started to drift over. He saw engram wide open but it's was too late because he got sacked.

Go read the Reddit thread. There were times that he did have time and remained locked on. There's no question that he doesn't have time on certain plays, but there's also a recurring pattern of him reacting as though he has no time when he actually does.
RE: I like McAdoo but the problem  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13599672 GiantTuff1 said:
Quote:
is he is feeding into the entire O's lack of confidence by not letting these guys establish any confidence in themselves if he's telling them hey we need to throw every 1.5 seconds...(1)

That's basically telling your o-line they are all pieces of shit, which is sort of true, but I would think that further crushes their spirit. And if the objective is to just throw fast each time wouldn't that speed up the clock in a QB's head too...? Seems the focus is to just get the ball out rather than scan for a bigger play, or improvise towards one. As Eric said, things are a little too choreographed b/c of the super quick throws, allows for nothing natural to develop. Eli's strength is a bit of that backyard baller.

So simply, McAdoo and his staff aren't seeing the forest through the trees.

What happened to the McAdoo that was preaching that his offense was going to be an aggressive up-tempo one... I'm seeing a total lack of aggressiveness, and "chicken shit" is sort of the proper descriptor for how the games are being called. Grow a fucking sack and let it rip.(2)

I'd rather get sacked 4-7 times during a game, and get some deep shots down the field, play call mixture, and a chance to actually generate confidence with the guys, and momentum to SCORE TD's and for the love of God more than 20 freaking points, than the dog shit we've been experiencing.(3) At least we tried. This offense feels like the old prevent defense mentality, the only thing it does it prevent scoring.

They should mix up the drop backs a little more, throw in some deeper pass objectives. Is this risky because the o-line sucks? Fuck yeah it is. But the alternative is not working, we look worse than a pee wee football team.

Stop folding on every hand McAdoo, and try going for the jugular a little more, and see what happens.(4)


p.s. Go back to the old hair style hoss. It's more you.

1. When did he ever say this?

2. How do you know he's the one who is holding back the offense from letting it rip, as you put it?

3. Are you certain the coach is the one who is sack-averse and not the QB?

4. How are you so certain that McAdoo is the one "folding on every hand"?
Dunk  
afann : 9/15/2017 3:03 pm : link
I don't disagree that is could be doing. I think he has no confidence in the line and that is causing him bail when he doesn't have to.
RE: Dunk  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13599812 afann said:
Quote:
I don't disagree that is could be doing. I think he has no confidence in the line and that is causing him bail when he doesn't have to.

No doubt about it. The stats show that he has been sacked less frequently during the BMc era than under TC/KG. At some point, Eli has to stand in there and risk the hit to make the play. We won't go anywhere if it's checkdown city every game.

I'm asking this genuinely and not to be a dick - does anyone think that Eli has become more risk-averse to protect his streak? Or maybe is it just as simple as those hits hurt more at 36 than they did at 26 or 30?
Eli is an aging qb who appears to have lost some arm strength,  
SterlingArcher : 9/15/2017 3:44 pm : link
He needs time to throw the deep pass and this version of the oline can not provide it so they are going to the short passing game.
RE: RE: I like McAdoo but the problem  
GiantTuff1 : 9/15/2017 4:06 pm : link
In comment 13599806 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13599672 GiantTuff1 said:


Quote:


is he is feeding into the entire O's lack of confidence by not letting these guys establish any confidence in themselves if he's telling them hey we need to throw every 1.5 seconds...(1)

That's basically telling your o-line they are all pieces of shit, which is sort of true, but I would think that further crushes their spirit. And if the objective is to just throw fast each time wouldn't that speed up the clock in a QB's head too...? Seems the focus is to just get the ball out rather than scan for a bigger play, or improvise towards one. As Eric said, things are a little too choreographed b/c of the super quick throws, allows for nothing natural to develop. Eli's strength is a bit of that backyard baller.

So simply, McAdoo and his staff aren't seeing the forest through the trees.

What happened to the McAdoo that was preaching that his offense was going to be an aggressive up-tempo one... I'm seeing a total lack of aggressiveness, and "chicken shit" is sort of the proper descriptor for how the games are being called. Grow a fucking sack and let it rip.(2)

I'd rather get sacked 4-7 times during a game, and get some deep shots down the field, play call mixture, and a chance to actually generate confidence with the guys, and momentum to SCORE TD's and for the love of God more than 20 freaking points, than the dog shit we've been experiencing.(3) At least we tried. This offense feels like the old prevent defense mentality, the only thing it does it prevent scoring.

They should mix up the drop backs a little more, throw in some deeper pass objectives. Is this risky because the o-line sucks? Fuck yeah it is. But the alternative is not working, we look worse than a pee wee football team.

Stop folding on every hand McAdoo, and try going for the jugular a little more, and see what happens.(4)


p.s. Go back to the old hair style hoss. It's more you.


1. When did he ever say this?

2. How do you know he's the one who is holding back the offense from letting it rip, as you put it?

3. Are you certain the coach is the one who is sack-averse and not the QB?

4. How are you so certain that McAdoo is the one "folding on every hand"?



1.) It's never been specified as 1.5 seconds, that's a little tongue in cheek, but it's not too far from the truth. I believe it's just over two seconds. We are either the quickest or about the quickest from snap to throw as there is in the league, and if you don't think that is by design, I have many things I'd like to sell you.

2.) Com'n, think about it. If the coaches told Eli to take 15 shots downfield where the ball sailed at least 20 yards in the air, then that's what we would be doing, or close to it. Eli was never one to not sling it, and didn't just become a turtle, so what happened? The sample size at this point is pretty largely indicting that there is a directive to stick to the super short and quick passing game, moreso than ever since McAdoo took over last year.

3.) It is a combination of the two, but I put it a little more on McAdoo... cause if it's the QB, it's still the coach's job to straighten Eli out, or get someone else in there to perform the objective. Second, would be on the O-line... they are terrible, so I'm sure this shrinks the nuts of our QB some, and probably our coach. And third, it's of course on Eli too. All these guys share the blame... he is avoiding hits in ways that make me feel he puts his streak or well being ahead of the team. I'm not for players getting hurt, and I don't want Eli too, but don't give up so easily as now it may be costing us games.

4.) Nobody is sure. We're not in the Giants meeting rooms, but use your eyes and think about what this offense has become, and there appears to be no aggressiveness from the top down... If they game planned to go intermediate to long, trust me, we'd be doing it a hell of a lot more. But there seems to be more of an obsession on 75% completion percentages even though gaining 3 yards on 3rd and 8 doesn't do much for us. Even if they failed in trying to go deep and stretch the defense, you'd at least know they were attempting to do it. But I've not seen any evidence that that's what they are trying to do, in fact I'm seeing a lot of the opposite (short, quick, 6 ypc), and I doubt Eli is checking out of potential bigger plays to throw 3 and 4 yard slants every down.
Dunk  
exiled : 9/15/2017 4:16 pm : link
It must be hard rooting for a team when you hate the QB.
RE: RE: RE: It's the scheme  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 4:49 pm : link
In comment 13599510 averagejoe said:
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In comment 13599495 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13599372 averagejoe said:


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and McAdoo-doo is an idiot. Giant offense looks like it is actually trying to NOT score. He does not challenge defense to defend the whole field. They are in our face all the time knowing they can pressure with 3 or 4 DL and that Giants can't run. Eli is shell shocked and handcuffed by a horrible OL and horrible game plan.


You act like the scheme only has one receiver per play. There ARE deep route concepts happening on each play. Between some combination of the OL and Eli's read (largely dictated by what the defense gives him) plays a big part in the low Y/A and Y/C. It's not as if the offense is set up to throw 6 yards/attempt.

But by all means, go ahead and blame McAdoo. That's probably easier for you to wrap your head around.



As you should know Eli has no time to allow the deep routes to come open. That is why underneath crossing patterns are the only throws he can complete. Every DC knows this as well. Actually Mac's offense is set up to throw 6 yards/attempt. That is the problem.

Really? It wasn't set up that way when he was OC and Eli was in his early 30's. Sorry to hurt your precious feelings about that.
RE: RE: RE: I like McAdoo but the problem  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 5:15 pm : link
In comment 13599866 GiantTuff1 said:
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In comment 13599806 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13599672 GiantTuff1 said:


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is he is feeding into the entire O's lack of confidence by not letting these guys establish any confidence in themselves if he's telling them hey we need to throw every 1.5 seconds...(1)

That's basically telling your o-line they are all pieces of shit, which is sort of true, but I would think that further crushes their spirit. And if the objective is to just throw fast each time wouldn't that speed up the clock in a QB's head too...? Seems the focus is to just get the ball out rather than scan for a bigger play, or improvise towards one. As Eric said, things are a little too choreographed b/c of the super quick throws, allows for nothing natural to develop. Eli's strength is a bit of that backyard baller.

So simply, McAdoo and his staff aren't seeing the forest through the trees.

What happened to the McAdoo that was preaching that his offense was going to be an aggressive up-tempo one... I'm seeing a total lack of aggressiveness, and "chicken shit" is sort of the proper descriptor for how the games are being called. Grow a fucking sack and let it rip.(2)

I'd rather get sacked 4-7 times during a game, and get some deep shots down the field, play call mixture, and a chance to actually generate confidence with the guys, and momentum to SCORE TD's and for the love of God more than 20 freaking points, than the dog shit we've been experiencing.(3) At least we tried. This offense feels like the old prevent defense mentality, the only thing it does it prevent scoring.

They should mix up the drop backs a little more, throw in some deeper pass objectives. Is this risky because the o-line sucks? Fuck yeah it is. But the alternative is not working, we look worse than a pee wee football team.

Stop folding on every hand McAdoo, and try going for the jugular a little more, and see what happens.(4)


p.s. Go back to the old hair style hoss. It's more you.


1. When did he ever say this?

2. How do you know he's the one who is holding back the offense from letting it rip, as you put it?

3. Are you certain the coach is the one who is sack-averse and not the QB?

4. How are you so certain that McAdoo is the one "folding on every hand"?




1.) It's never been specified as 1.5 seconds, that's a little tongue in cheek, but it's not too far from the truth. I believe it's just over two seconds.(1) We are either the quickest or about the quickest from snap to throw as there is in the league, and if you don't think that is by design, I have many things I'd like to sell you.

2.) Com'n, think about it. If the coaches told Eli to take 15 shots downfield where the ball sailed at least 20 yards in the air, then that's what we would be doing, or close to it. Eli was never one to not sling it, and didn't just become a turtle, so what happened?(2) The sample size at this point is pretty largely indicting that there is a directive to stick to the super short and quick passing game, moreso than ever since McAdoo took over last year.

3.) It is a combination of the two, but I put it a little more on McAdoo... cause if it's the QB, it's still the coach's job to straighten Eli out, or get someone else in there to perform the objective. Second, would be on the O-line... they are terrible, so I'm sure this shrinks the nuts of our QB some, and probably our coach. And third, it's of course on Eli too. All these guys share the blame... he is avoiding hits in ways that make me feel he puts his streak or well being ahead of the team. I'm not for players getting hurt, and I don't want Eli too, but don't give up so easily as now it may be costing us games.

4.) Nobody is sure. We're not in the Giants meeting rooms, but use your eyes and think about what this offense has become, and there appears to be no aggressiveness from the top down...(3) If they game planned to go intermediate to long, trust me, we'd be doing it a hell of a lot more. But there seems to be more of an obsession on 75% completion percentages even though gaining 3 yards on 3rd and 8 doesn't do much for us. Even if they failed in trying to go deep and stretch the defense, you'd at least know they were attempting to do it. But I've not seen any evidence that that's what they are trying to do, in fact I'm seeing a lot of the opposite (short, quick, 6 ypc), and I doubt Eli is checking out of potential bigger plays to throw 3 and 4 yard slants every down.

1. In 2016, Eli had 2.53 seconds to throw. That was more than the following established QBs: Andy Dalton (2.50), Derek Carr (2.49), Carson Palmer (2.49), Sam Bradford (2.48), Drew Brees (2.42), Alex Smith (2.38).

2. That's basically the point and probably an element on which we'll have to agree to disagree. I think the stats and film both point to Eli choosing to check down in spite of deeper route options. The final drive (or lack thereof) against Dallas last Sunday is proof positive. Down 2+ scores with 2 minutes left, Eli repeatedly checked down instead of swinging for the fences. We'll have to disagree on whose call that was.

3. With a QB that has carte blanche to check out at the line, and that we both acknowledge might be suffering from shell shock due to his OL (plus his lack of trust in the OL even when they're performing adequately), I still don't see how you can definitively pin this on the coach when he was OC for the two most prolific seasons of Eli's career.

RE: Dunk  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13599872 exiled said:
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It must be hard rooting for a team when you hate the QB.

I don't hate the QB. Nice try though - that's a pretty simpleton argument from the Eli apologist crowd. I'm just willing to question whether Eli is in decline. The stats say he is. The segment of the fanbase that thinks it's still 2011 say he isn't.

From my view, he's being paid like a franchise QB and playing like something just a step or two less than that, which is bad for the team. And he isn't one historically to financially take one for the team to improve the roster, so it's troubling to see him underperform his massive cap number.

I don't know why it's so hard to even consider that a 36 year old QB might be in decline.
I don t need to look at stas to know  
joeinpa : 9/15/2017 5:28 pm : link
Eli didn t play well. All quarterbacks struggle against a good pass rush.

Eli more than most. He just can t buy time for himself
RE: I don t need to look at stas to know  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/15/2017 5:41 pm : link
In comment 13599925 joeinpa said:
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Eli didn t play well. All quarterbacks struggle against a good pass rush.

Eli more than most. He just can t buy time for himself

Um...
RE: This is a thought  
mainiac : 9/15/2017 5:44 pm : link
In comment 13599625 Bleedin Blue said:
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From 24/7 sports Link - ( New Window )


With our OL, this scares me:

"On 44 passing plays, including three designed screen passes, McAdoo used just five blockers (his starting offensive line) on 38-of-44 plays. On the remaining plays, McAdoo used a running back or a tight end in pass protection on a handful of plays."
RE: While the OP calls out the chicken shit coach and his play calling  
Jersey55 : 9/16/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13599474 Jimmy Googs said:
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Eli is a veteran QB that has more than enough authority to change things at the line and execute other plays.

You sure you want to only blame Mac?

I read somewhere that Eli changes the play at the LOS as much as 90% of the time so how can that be anybody else fault if the play fails....
RE: RE: While the OP calls out the chicken shit coach and his play calling  
PatersonPlank : 9/16/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13600246 Jersey55 said:
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In comment 13599474 Jimmy Googs said:


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Eli is a veteran QB that has more than enough authority to change things at the line and execute other plays.

You sure you want to only blame Mac?


I read somewhere that Eli changes the play at the LOS as much as 90% of the time so how can that be anybody else fault if the play fails....


Eli just doesn't blatantly make up the plays. He and Mac agree to packages and go to the LOS with a play call and maybe 1 or 2 others they could switch to based on the actual defense. So mac is directly involved. Its not like Eli is doing whatever he wants. When the defense shows xx, the Mac lets Eli pick from this set of plays depending on how they are set (for example).
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