Football Outsiders reviews Giants OL all season

Good God in Heaven, he screws up like three things in his first two steps. It's actually impressive. First, he false steps with his outside foot. If you're running outside zone away, you should never ever step with your outside foot first. Then, when he does get around to stepping play-side, he steps underneath himself. So after taking two steps, he has somehow moved in the opposite direction from where he was trying to go. He is further away from making a block than if he had just stayed in his stance.






And finally, he ends the play with an absolute textbook case of a coffee table cut. On a good cut, you put your helmet on a defender's thigh board and drive your legs until you just can't stay up anymore. On a crappy cut, you drop to all fours and hope the defender trips over you like you're a coffee table in the middle of the night. This play is an absolute dumpster fire of technique.

I also thought Ereck Flowers played OK. Now a lot of that was low expectations, and some of it was not being Bobby Hart, but Flowers looked like a starting offensive tackle last Sunday. Not a great one, but certainly not the disaster I've heard about. Still, he did get beat on a sack on what was probably the most costly play of the game for New York's offense.

Jerry Reese saw these players last year struggle and decided they would be okay to go into the season as NFL starters for the New York Giants.

Flowers sack also has Hart getting destroyed by his man. Even if Flowers holds his guy, Eli's running for his life because of Hart.

I mean, not good, but good analysis of how fucking bad Hart and most of the OL was Sunday night.

This quote is as accurate as it is funny:

"We're not here to talk about everything that went wrong with New York's offense, though. (Thank God, because I don't get paid by the word.)"

second and goal play from the four encapsulates much of what is wrong with the OL.

Flowers has his hands too low, which of course is a technique problem. His feet also aren't quick enough to recover when the defender makes a quick fake to the outside before cutting back inside.

Jerry and Hart messed up another simple stunt.

and very entertaining

This went on last year as well. I just don't understand it. The staff has to see this stuff. How do we not try something different? I know the backups aren't great, but they can't be worse than Jerry/Hart. Why not give them a chance?

I think ideally Flowers becomes a steady RT next year, you somehow get a stud LT and Hart becomes the swing guy.

on the sack of Eli at the 5, Flowers man beats him so easily in getting to Eli....and once again there was a stunt on the right side, that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle......

and look at the center of the end zone, not one freakin' Giant there....

At this moment in time, it looks like Eli will be killed by a good front 7 like Philly......

is the fact Reese thought this Oline was ok?? Wow. In the NFL if you want to win games, the Oline is the key. Just take a good look at the top teams in the Nfl and you will see they all have great offensive lines. I hate the Cowboys but give them credit to sticking to their plan and drafting well these past few years. They have always have good Olines and they continued that.

..open on that sack given up by Flowers. Would have had a choice of Engram or Shepard coming back across with nothing in front of them.

In comment 13599686 Doomster said:

Quote:

on the sack of Eli at the 5, Flowers man beats him so easily in getting to Eli....and once again there was a stunt on the right side, that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle...... and look at the center of the end zone, not one freakin' Giant there.... At this moment in time, it looks like Eli will be killed by a good front 7 like Philly......

To think, many blamed Flowers for the sack (which was true). But even if he was blocked just 1/2 way decently, Eli was still likely to get sacked anyway because the missed play on the stunt.

that 2nd and goal play on the Flowers sack.

The Cowboys rushed four linemen against our five linemen and three of them got to Eli with ease

tell me these guys have not learned anything over the past two years from these coaches or playing together.

You simply cannot block any worse...

Hart supposed to be "gaining strength" this year??? God.

jesus, that first one makes me so sad as a giants fan...look how pitiful hart looks...even worse look at john jerry holy shit...he literally whiffs and falls on his face. two seriously bad players on the right side is brutal and with flowers still so so....its tough to move the ball

In comment 13599707 PaulBlakeTSU said:

Quote:

that 2nd and goal play on the Flowers sack. The Cowboys rushed four linemen against our five linemen and three of them got to Eli with ease

Yup and even worse - it's not like this Cowboys front four is the Fearsome Foursome or the Steel Curtain. They're OK, but outside of Sean Lee their whole defense was essentially JAGs Sunday night

by the fact that the author heard (and believes) the Cowboys did things the Giants did not expect, and they were so baffled by it.

It appears we were out coached as well as outplayed. Marshall noted that they played a lot more zone in the first half than the Giants were expecting and they adjusted at halftime.

So that's two areas they did things we didn't expect and we didn't adjust well until at least the half.

Also, how can we not expect a lot of zone? It freakin' ate our lunch last year, yet we didn't expect it? "Gee, they're doing what beat us so much last year, those damn evil geniuses!" And, on the topic, zone is such a freakin' innovative thing to do that a coach and vet QB can't adjust on the fly?

I'm not usually a blame the coach guy because most schemes should work with good execution (In our case, good luck with that...), but these statements are not encouraging as to game planning.

In comment 13599728 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

Hart supposed to be "gaining strength" this year??? God.

It should be a reminder that whatever "reports" you read about during the offseason should always be taken skeptically.

we've seen Jerry shoved on his ass by the Pats, and now Hart gets thrown like a sack of crap. Then you have Richberg's roller skates and christ on a cracker this line is bad.

a pressure all preseason.

And I just bought the Brooklyn Bridge from a guy on the corner for basically nothing...

I've mentioned before my a co-worker's son was at rookie mini camp with the Steelers and at training camp for 2 weeks with the Redskins. He has a term for an offensive lineman who's leaning far too much that he has no balance and no chance at making a play. They call them "Giuseppes."

He said that Hart's play was a classic Giuseppe.
No Balance, No Chance - ( New Window )

In comment 13599693 Ryan said:

Quote:

..open on that sack given up by Flowers. Would have had a choice of Engram or Shepard coming back across with nothing in front of them.

Looks like Engram was doing an out....and double covered.

Didn't Eli said he was looking back for Engram after deciding not to go to Marshall?

That looks like the wrong play IMO.

And look at Perkins..with the field wide open in the middle he simply needs to take the LB on a slant and it's an easy TD. Instead, he's simply turning around and letting the LB have him.

Hart was projected to be a Guard in the NFL. He's young and may still learn to be a good RT, but right now he demonstrates why many of the draft gurus projected him at Guard.

at the end:

Quote:

...This was a total failure as an offensive unit, as three-point efforts usually are. It's not the way you want to start your season, but it's just one game. There's still plenty of time to turn it around.

They never had the makings of Varsity Athletes

In comment 13599697 BigBlueinChicago said:

Quote:

In comment 13599686 Doomster said: Quote: on the sack of Eli at the 5, Flowers man beats him so easily in getting to Eli....and once again there was a stunt on the right side, that Jerry/Hart couldn't handle...... Ok, but that still means it is Flowers fault. If you cause and accident and two seconds later a drunk driver crashes into the accident you caused, you don't go yeah but that drunk would have crashed into us anyway so not my fault. and look at the center of the end zone, not one freakin' Giant there.... At this moment in time, it looks like Eli will be killed by a good front 7 like Philly...... To think, many blamed Flowers for the sack (which was true). But even if he was blocked just 1/2 way decently, Eli was still likely to get sacked anyway because the missed play on the stunt.

In comment 13599728 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

Hart supposed to be "gaining strength" this year??? God.

Did he hurt his ankle on that play. As bad as he played it, he did seem to roll over his ankle and just collapse.

Pugh played pretty well. He seems to be able to help Flowers stay borderline adequate right now. But Hart and Jerry together is like asking Greg Bishop to help out Jeff Roehl..

The Right side has to be changed.. But, we also need guys to play with more fire. We have a back who is too easily brought down and too indecisive. He makes Butch Wollfolk look like Natrone Means.

We have a receiving TE who is pathetic as a blocker. He looks like a WR being asked to come down in the box and block.. Never going to help...

Think the NFL love to recycle guys.

Pitt Hires Bruce Matthews and their OL gets much better. It never jut about coaching. Sure great and good players are a must, but anyone who things some coaches aren't better than others are kidding themselves

Its amazing. Like Bill Belichick is just as good as anyone else. Its Just the players?

Also the whol mantra that OL play is down around the league is such a tired excuse. Other teams win with less than ideal talent. This team is loaded on D and that will be the deal this year but this organization needs to re-assess everything they do evaluating and coaching the OL. Its pretty much a disaster and has been for 5 years.

If you fail at some facet for 5 years w the exception of maybe Pugh as the ONLY above average OL something is seriously wrong

together with the Laurel and Hardy theme. Jesus.

In comment 13599817 gidiefor said:

Quote:

at the end: Quote: ...This was a total failure as an offensive unit, as three-point efforts usually are. It's not the way you want to start your season, but it's just one game. There's still plenty of time to turn it around.

Yes, of course, we all know there are 15 games left to decide the season. But that's not the criticism being discussed. This is all about whether we have an Oline that is EVER going to show some stability and then some improvement so the team can truly compete for a championship...

picking on Hart is tough, because he rolled his ankle on that first play. He got it taped up and stayed in the game, but no surprise he couldn't move as well, made mistakes, and had little power. Shame on the coaches I guess for not pulling him out in those circumstances. Guess it says a lot about how bad they expect his replacement to be.

Next, the thing about not be prepared. Pugh mentioned that there were some "wrinkles". He was asked if he was referring to line stunts and said, no, they were expecting those things. When asked to clarify, here's what he actually said:

Quote:

I mean some of the fronts that they played. Like pre-snap alignments, stuff like that.

He said once they saw what they were doing they made adjustments and were able to counter that stuff. Just caught them off guard. The bigger issue was that they continue to make mistakes so frequently.

Eli talked about the zone stuff they didn't expect to see, but he wasn't saying they had no answer for it. He simply said that they saw more zone then they anticipated from Dallas given how they were mostly a man coverage defense last year. When asked about it again he was clear that they had counters available for those looks from the beginning of the game. Here's his actual quote:

Quote:

Q: Did the Cowboys throw something you weren’t anticipating on third down? A: Defense is always going to change things up. We had answers. We had answers to get the first downs, to make plays. Every third down, every play – it’s its own play. It’s its own reason why it works or doesn’t work. All 11 guys have to execute. All 11 guys have to do their job. Some of it, we had to maybe get to our second, third receiver in progression and just was taking a little bit longer than we anticipated.

So it is unfair to characterize the offense as lost and without answers based on Eli's comment of seeing new wrinkles in Dallas' defense. He is clearly stating that they had breakdowns that prevented them from executing their answers. But they were prepared.

The point I'm trying to make is that the problem lies where we should have expected it to lie. EXECUTION. It's not play design or game plan. It's all about executing. We have a bunch of players who fail to execute. Maybe they're coach killers. All of them. Or maybe, just maybe, there's a fundamental flaw in our approach to preparing for the games. I think it's the latter. I think it's time for all practice time to be focused on execution with fundamentals and individual work done in the offseason with private trainers.

I'm worried that with the offense unable to consistently execute that the team finally practiced on Thursday. I know we don't play until Monday, but these guys need to work. Can we really expect all 11 guys on offense to fix their inconsistencies in three days of practice?

And guess what? On Thursday the practice was really just an installation of the game plan.

We have what we have. Let's hope the team figures it out, but I'm really worried that we've got no time left to really have this OL work together to become a legit unit.

that took them out of their game...not likely. Our Offense doesn't have a game they can be taken out of yet. Get one and maybe there is a debate.

Teams will be able to move the ball just fine against Dallas, just watch each week.

This is all on our guys...

Link - ( New Window )

Jerry get to the next level and fall on his face right before engaging Sean Lee. He is so smooth.

Even if the RB wasn't tackled already b/c Hart was just as pathetic, albeit somewhat quicker at being pathetic, Sean Lee would have gotten the tackle anyway.

There will be one of these every week?

Hey, lest we forget, Bobby Hart is the best RT in the league. Just ask him. What a stupid effing comment to make by a very marginal (except in Jerry Reese's world) NFL player. Hard to believe he could start at FSU for 4 years.

Hart couldn't play this week is staggering. Could say the same thing about Jerry as well (and Flowers too).

Not saying you want backups in there, but at the end of the day we have 2 starting-caliber Offensive Lineman on this team in Pugh and Richburg.

Everybody else is a reserve-level talent at best...

drafted a third string corner over a starting tackle or guard

In comment 13600333 Mr. Nickels said:

Quote:

drafted a third string corner over a starting tackle or guard

I don't think you know what 'third string' is.

they don't have Solari's technique down yet.

In comment 13599817 gidiefor said:

Quote:

at the end: Quote: ...This was a total failure as an offensive unit, as three-point efforts usually are. It's not the way you want to start your season, but it's just one game. There's still plenty of time to turn it around.

I don't know exactly what this is supposed to mean but if I'm guessing correctly then I find it impossible to understand how this isn't the most clear example of a single unit affecting everyone else. If the offensive line doesn't block there are no other areas of the offense...you can't even run the offense. i don't give a shit what the coach says or what any writer says...the fact is simple: you can't run plays when you have 1-3 seconds to do so. There are people complaining about the QB having "happy feet" or not throwing rhe ball down the field enough....as though we don't know that if he had his way, ELi would throw the ball deep every play. We see a RB acually unable to get 3 yards a carry...because he can't run? He even shows some good patience for a guy knowing he has no chance of finding a hole.

However then you have the coach who substitutes the quick pass game for the run game so quickly, we end up running the ball 3 times per quarter. That's never going to work. No playaction develops off of that. Add in having to keep guys in to block etc...

It's all OLine. Thats it. No other issues would linger if they blocked.

to the unit during an offseason that could reasonably be expected to play, sans serious injuries?

Anybody?

Dives and misses, not holding his blocks, out of position, etc... You have to really love to block to play at this level, he looks like a guy just going through the motions.

Some. ooops