NFT: NHL Pre-season starts and NHL top 50 (50 - 21)

Karlsson, sorry Andy.

My guess at top 20 in no particular order.

Crosby
Ovie
Malkin
Backstrom
Kucherov
Marchand
Tarasenko
Kane
McDavid
Benn
Matthews
Tavares


Karlsson
Burns
Doughty
Hedman

Price
Hank
Holtby
Bobrovsky

not sure if any of these players were already included at a higher number, but this would be my guess or something like it.

1. Lundqvist
2. Hayes
3. Skjei
4. Buchnevich

Where would you rank Toews?

Toews is clearly not in their league.

Meant in comparison to the scrubs above like Murray and Laine.

(I think Murray is too high)

all be higher than Laine and Murray.

I think a goalie like Murray gets treated a little bit like Fuhr, overshadowed because they have world class talent that gets the attention.

He's never had to be the reason his team won, though he has two rings as a rookie. rare at best, he might even be the only goalie ever (or only player ever) for all I know.

In comment 13601800 pjcas18 said:

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all be higher than Laine and Murray. I think a goalie like Murray gets treated a little bit like Fuhr, overshadowed because they have world class talent that gets the attention. He's never had to be the reason his team won, though he has two rings as a rookie. rare at best, he might even be the only goalie ever (or only player ever) for all I know.

Great point. Murray has the benefit of playing with two superstars and future hall of famers. The downside is that no matter how good he is people will always argue that his success was related to having those two on his team. If Roy and Brodeur had players as talented as Crosby and Malkin then they wouldn't have been as highly thought of as they were.

I think that's too many goalies for the top 50 if you're top 20 is right. I like Murray just fine, not sure if he's 'elite' though.

Quick shouldn't be top 50.

pj, who's your pick to win the Cup this year? I'd like to know who's definitely not winning it now. Thanks.

In comment 13602098 BrettNYG10 said:

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I think that's too many goalies for the top 50 if you're top 20 is right. I like Murray just fine, not sure if he's 'elite' though. Quick shouldn't be top 50. pj, who's your pick to win the Cup this year? I'd like to know who's definitely not winning it now. Thanks.

Rangers or Bruins.

I don't know, so many teams could win.

Today in the East my top 4 are PIT, WAS, NYR, MTL, but I can easily see a healthy TB in the mix

Today in the west my top 4 are EDM, CHI, NSH, ANA, but I could see DAL challenging - really like they're off-season.

I was in Vegas in August and bet $100 on the Rangers and Canadiens each to win the cup at 16:1 odds and 50 on the Oilers at 10:1.

*their* off-season

You don't seem that high on TOR? I think they'll compete for the division title with MTL. I expect OTT to take a step back. Agreed on TB, think they'll be good.

I like NSH, SJ, and MIN out west.

I'm in agreement on NYR/WAS/PIT. Think they'll all be really good this year.

I'm not as high on EDM as others are. I don't think they have enough around Draisatl/McDavid.

Things are definitely changing.

Of keeping the hockey discussion somewhat alive.

Pretty interesting to see AV's comments on Andersson and Chytil. Could just be lip service, but you'd expect to see the coach sandbagging their chances to make the big squad more than inflating them.

I guess at a minimum it's an encouraging start in the absence of any tangible results.

will be good and fun to watch, just like last year, and i like the fact Marleau left SJ to go there, but I don't like Andersen that much and I don't like their D.

The spread in the Atlantic was only 8 points from 1st (MTL) to 4th (TOR), in fact it was only 9 points to 5th (TBL).

So nothing would be terribly shocking to me in the Atlantic, for MTL they really just need a healthy Price and not a terrible matchup in the 1st round to get some momentum.

All eyes will be on Nico Hischier and Will Butcher but there are several other young players that might step up.

Will Pavel Zacha break out this season and stick as the first line center or will the Devils be forced to go with Henrique, Johansson, or even Hischier?

Will Michael McLeod and/or Blake Speers win a spot either at C or RW or does he need more seasoning in juniors/Minors?


Will Steve Santini build on last year and develop into a 2nd pairing defenseman that they desperately need?

Is Will Butcher ready for the NHL or does he need some time in the AHL to get acclimated to the speed of the league?

starts with the Devils.

He's a smart player and while not optimally sized for a D, he should be a top 6 this year at worst.

In comment 13602177 pjcas18 said:

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starts with the Devils. He's a smart player and while not optimally sized for a D, he should be a top 6 this year at worst.

I expect him to finish the year in the top 4 but I have a bad feeling that the Devils will start him in the AHL due to the logjam of lesser veterans who will be subject to waivers like Moore, and Lovejoy. They trade a 2nd and a 4th for Mirco Mueller so I hope that he just needed a change of scenery because those are valuable picks for a rebuilding team.

to the veterans

Rook from Notre Dame, hearing good things about him. Is he really going to make the big team?

But is that just the usual coming out of hockey training camps???

In comment 13602243 BillKo said:

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Rook from Notre Dame, hearing good things about him. Is he really going to make the big team? But is that just the usual coming out of hockey training camps???

I like him, I watched him the past few years on all the world juniors teams. I think he'll be a pro, but I'd be surprised if it's this year. Maybe an injury call up.

I think he's be a top 9 forward eventually. He's "already" 21, not like a lot of these guys that come right from juniors lately.

When will MAB show up to tell us how THIS season will finally be the Caps year?

In comment 13602411 Greg from LI said:

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When will MAB show up to tell us how THIS season will finally be the Caps year?

They lost way too much talent. I think Montreal might win it this year if Price stays healthy. They have some concerns at center but I think the Drouin acquisition was one of the best moves of the offseason.

Rangers are winning the Cup, though. So don't waste your time, guys.

In comment 13602429 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 13602411 Greg from LI said: Quote: When will MAB show up to tell us how THIS season will finally be the Caps year? They lost way too much talent. I think Montreal might win it this year if Price stays healthy. They have some concerns at center but I think the Drouin acquisition was one of the best moves of the offseason.

I love the Drouin acquisition. The thing about is everyone looks at TB now and says they acquired a potential perennial Norris trophy candidate in Sergachev.

But when Sergachev was on the Canadiens (or a Canadiens prospect) I never once read anyone, zero people, write that he was a potential perennial Norris candidate.

Hockey writers and Canadiens beat writers are very self-loathing (or loathing of the Canadiens I should say).

I do think Sergachev will be good, maybe even great, but I'd make that trade again with Carey Price 30 years old.

In comment 13602140 Greg from LI said:

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Things are definitely changing.

I could realistically see anything from ECF to missing the playoffs. I dont even think the center issue is the biggest question mark -- rather, I think the defensive corps is still the big ??, especially as we appear to be moving to more PMDs, fewer "steady" types. Whether it works defensively remains to be seen, but offensively it should do wonders as all 3 forwards can now move up ice rather than having one skate back to get the puck.

In comment 13602433 BrettNYG10 said:

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Rangers are winning the Cup, though. So don't waste your time, guys.

caps are done.

the amount of penalties called so far in this game (isles/rangers) or the fact no one has scored yet.

In comment 13602411 Greg from LI said:

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When will MAB show up to tell us how THIS season will finally be the Caps year?

Ha. But i will say if you didnt think either of their series against the eventual two time champions (threw up in mouth) could have gone either way, i dont know what to tell you. On paper, *thankfully* they lost a shitload in the offseason and I dont think Ovechkin will age particularly well. They'll make the playoffs and they'll be a tough out, but at this point Pittsburgh and Montreal, IMO, are on paper probably the best two teams.

I agree with deej on the Rangers - I have some doubts and concerns, and the Metro also remains the toughest division on the planet, across any sport. Basically trading Stepan for Shattenkirk is a downgrade any way you cut it... though obviously we'll see if Andersson develops into something special in 2-3 years.

Defense should be generally ok if Coach Dipshit uses them correctly anyway... but Center remains a major concern. Forget about the fact that we dont really have a 3rd line C... I'm not exactly sold Hayes will step up at 2C either.

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Basically trading Stepan for Shattenkirk is a downgrade any way you cut it.

I don't agree with this at all.

I don't really understand such a definitive statement there. Shattenkirk is going to be a revelation for this group after what we've watched on the back end the last three years.

by Pionk on the GWG last night.

But Pionk and Tony D are getting very good reviews. Holden has to go and Staal should be sweating it out too.

He has a NMC, he can't go to Hartford.

See if 40 games of being 7th D has him feeling differently about his options.

Staal should be concerned about his ice time. He's not going anywhere unfortunately but even AV acknowledged the other day that he's competing for his place more so than ever before

Yeah, that makes more sense. I'll believe it when I see it, though. I don't have a lot of hope in AV going from trotting him out to defend a lead in the semi's to benching him.

In comment 13606066 BrettNYG10 said:

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Quote: Basically trading Stepan for Shattenkirk is a downgrade any way you cut it. I don't agree with this at all.

I think it's silly to view it as Shat for Stepan, in the near and long term.

Near term you have to count Tony D and Raanta. Less convinced Lias makes the team. Longer term it's Stepan and a season of Raanta for Shat, Tony D, and Lias, and it's moving Stepan before the NTC kicked in. Long term it actually looks pretty great.

I think ultimately we needed puck movement from the back end more than we needed Stepan, who is probably in the #20-#35 range for centers. Ultimately I think we miss Step's defense more than his offense.

In comment 13606066 BrettNYG10 said:

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Quote: Basically trading Stepan for Shattenkirk is a downgrade any way you cut it. I don't agree with this at all.

I wouldn't even look at it this way. I'd take the trade pretty literally. Stepan and Raanta for Andersson and DeAngelo.

I do think that trade could hurt the Rangers in 2017-2018, but in the long-run it's a no-brainer (for just the potential of Andersson alone).

I think Raanta hurts, I wasn't in love with him like some of you, but when your A goalie is 36 before the playoffs, you need a legit backup.

Raanta > Pavelec, though I like Pavelec's size, but until he shows he can give you 20 - 25 starts, that may be the difference between 2nd place in the Metro and 4th place - and maybe that's a good thing based on 2016 - 2017, but I wouldn't count on that every year.

And Stepan was definitely miss-cast as a 1C, but he's better cast as a 1C than Mika IMO.

Rangers anomaly, they have 1 RH forward in their top 12, maybe even top 15, and he's a C. Unless you include Fast, not sure if he's being planned for top 12 or not on the depth chart.

Handedness means more for a D, than a F, but I find that strange.

And they only have one RH D. two righties out of 18 skaters.

Right handed shot hockey players (should be left-handed in life) are becoming more and more rare.

It was preseason, yeah, but I was surprised at how he played. I didn't expect much from him this year.

Both he and D'Angelo looked much better than Holden.

Who was Raanta before the Rangers, though? At this point, my faith in Allaire's ability to fashion almost anyone into a solid backup is pretty damned strong.

In comment 13606582 Greg from LI said:

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Who was Raanta before the Rangers, though? At this point, my faith in Allaire's ability to fashion almost anyone into a solid backup is pretty damned strong.

you're probably right, you know the coach better than me, but having seen first hand what can happen to a team when you tempt fate and do not have a legit backup I don't have as much faith in goalie coaches coaching up 28/29 year old failures as you do.

If it's only the difference between 2nd and 4th place like I said between Pavelec and Raanta, then who cares, but if Pavelec is like Mike Condon, and Hank misses a lot of time it could be the difference between 4th in the division and 9th.

But it's been a long time since they had a problem in that spot, even as they've shuffled through players. Raanta, Talbot, Biron, hell, even Vally was decent for them. Looking through the seasons, the last time their primary backup played poorly was Kevin Weekes in 2006-07. To be fair, both Valiquette and Biron were awful in their respective final season, but both were quickly replaced with someone who played well (Biron in Vally's case, Talbot in Biron's).

I can't say I've seen Pavelec play much, but seems like he was at least adequate prior to last season.

In comment 13606499 pjcas18 said:

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I wouldn't even look at it this way. I'd take the trade pretty literally. Stepan and Raanta for Andersson and DeAngelo.

I dont think you can ignore the fact that the trade cleared up like 6 million in cap space, and that the Rangers went out and signed a $7 million player "with" the new cap space. Cap space, like picks and prospects, is an asset.

They specifically mentioned last night that Allaire watched a lot of tape on Pavelec leading up to FA and recommended that they go get him to replace Raanta.

They said Pavelec was surprised by how quickly they called when FA began.

Who knows what will come of him, but at this point a conviction move at the recommendation of Allaire gets the benefit of the doubt.

In comment 13606656 Deej said:

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In comment 13606499 pjcas18 said: Quote: I wouldn't even look at it this way. I'd take the trade pretty literally. Stepan and Raanta for Andersson and DeAngelo. I dont think you can ignore the fact that the trade cleared up like 6 million in cap space, and that the Rangers went out and signed a $7 million player "with" the new cap space. Cap space, like picks and prospects, is an asset.

No, of course you don't ignore it, but I don't view it as a Stepan for Shattenkirk trade.

I think the Girardi buyout and Klein retirement for Shattenkirk is more accurately how you explain it.

has all the hallmarks of a kid who does 4 good things, 2 bad things, and get buried for the 2 bad things. Rangers have had a problem "trusting" offensive dmen who are defensively suspect as long as I can remember. It got Zubov traded and it got Del Zotto's game changed for the worse and then traded. Frankly it was a somewhat odd add by the GM given this coach's track record.

I think given the Rangers strengths/weaknesses at the time, a theoretical Stepan/Shattenkirk deal improves the team.

I'm surprised there isn't more optimism about the team. Think they have a top ten defensive unit, and maybe a bit better than that if DeAngelo/Poink really shine.

Agreed, Deej. I'm wary of AV's usage. I think he's mishandled the D the past three years.

1)Aging Henrik looked shakier last season
2)Vigneault's track record of integrating young players is less than sterling
3)Grabner highly unlikely to repeat last season's production
4)Still lack go-to scorers

to see a defense that can actually move the puck. I think that will make up for a lot of the offense we lost at center. Guys like Kreider, JT, Grabner should end up with a lot of breakaways and odd man rushes off feeds from the back.

I think we have the second best team in the Metro behind Pittsburgh.