NFT: NHL Pre-season starts and NHL top 50 (50 - 21)

My counters to your counters

1. He's had to shoulder a pretty large burden the last two seasons. Our shot metrics should be a lot better this season

2. Hard to argue here, though there have been some success stories. I think he's on a shorter leash though this season and bringing in Lindy Ruff only confirms my belief there.

3. He won't match that but there are reasonable gains to be expected by guys like Buch and Vesey that should more than make up for that.

4. Despite missing that one stud scorer, goal scoring really was not an issue for this group last season. And as mentioned, the D should contribute much more offensively now.

In comment 13606775 Greg from LI said:

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1)Aging Henrik looked shakier last season 2)Vigneault's track record of integrating young players is less than sterling 3)Grabner highly unlikely to repeat last season's production 4)Still lack go-to scorers

All good points. Henrik's a concern given his age, but I think he'll have a bounce back year with the better D. If he's average again, I'm skeptical of the team's ability to win it all.

I can see the O taking a small step back in part due to Grabner coming back to earth and the loss of Stepan. I think Buchnevich needs to be a 40-45 point guy for the team this year - if he turns into a second line caliber player, the team would have really good depth again.

I still don't really get the Ruff hire. He's had pretty bad defensive units in Dallas and IIRC his Buffalo teams had great offenses+Ryan Miller (and Hasek before that). I don't see him as a defensive genius or anything.

If AV flounders, I'd prefer shit-canning the whole staff and hiring Sutter mid-year.

my early prediction, Patrik Laine scores 50+ goals.

I think he can end up better (or more productive) than McDavid.

then no, goal scoring wasn't a problem for this team. However, I think that's a bit misleading. They were very boom or bust offensively. They still went through long stretches where they couldn't buy a goal to save their lives.

One thing that might improve that is an improved PP now that they look like they might have several skilled defensemen who can move the puck efficiently. We can only hope.

There's potential here for a good season. A lot of it will be determined by Vigneault. Taking Girardi away from him will help. If he's being honest when he says Holden and Staal have to earn their ice time, that will help too. Zib still has the potential for a breakout season and Buchnevich has a high ceiling. Can Vigneault figure out how to get the most out of this team? That's the big question.

I could live with that. Sutter is the guy you call when you're trying to wring a title out of a group in a short window, because by year three the team will be turning on him. If they're going to make a major push to try to win before Lundqvist hits the skids, that's the man you go to.

I would have been fine if they fired AV and hired Sutter this off-season. I was also fine with him returning - didn't have a strong viewpoint one way or the other.

AV pushed the right buttons in 2014. I generally like him.

It's going to be hilarious if the PP is still awful.

If the top 4 is McD-Shat, Skjei-Smith and they play well, I think Hank will have a real bounce back. I think a lot of his "decline" has been that he's been getting horrible play in front of him. DG, Staal, and Holden were really bad, as was Klein. Getting not those guys out there should do a lot for Hank. Even average play out of Shat, Smith, and Skjei will be a vast improvement.

In comment 13606842 BrettNYG10 said:

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It's going to be hilarious if the PP is still awful.

I think it will be. The long search for a PP QB misses the point on our PP struggles. Long term I think the struggles have been for 2 reasons, neither of which is about the PP QB job:

1. We generally have not had the super skills type guys who I think flourish on a PP. Well rounded guys like Stepan are great overall, but a Brassard type with lots of natural talent are who you want on the PP. Better natural talents (guys better than Brass) are the keys to a PP IMO.

2. Our PP never, ever stresses the correct positioning. 99% of the time the puck receiver is facing the passer, rather than the goalie. So we can almost never get off a one-timer or quick pass to a player near the goal line. What we're left with is a lot of ISO ball -- guys holding the puck looking for something to happen while other guys barely move. I have no idea what the PP philosophy is here, but it makes no sense. Its almost as if we care more about possession than shooting.

Shatty or DeAngelo wont fix that. Buch maybe. It would also help if we had another horse other than Kreider to park in front of the net.

In comment 13606690 pjcas18 said:

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I think the Girardi buyout and Klein retirement for Shattenkirk is more accurately how you explain it.

My numbers are a bit rusty since its been 3 months since I looked at the cap, but I don't think this is true. They saved $2mm a year basically by cutting Girardi (but still have to pay him a couple mil a year for 6 more years now) and Klein only had 1 year left on his deal.

Meanwhile, you signed Shattenkirk to a 4 year deal @ close to 7 a year (similar number and term as Stepan).

And, with either Stepan or Shatty, this team is really going to be up against the cap next summer (or is it the summer after?) when McDonaugh and others have to be paid. At a minimum, Nash is a goner which is fine, but not sure what we have in the pipeline to replace his production.

Either way - not sure how you equate buying out Girardi and losing a modest 1 year Klein salary with signing the most expensive free agent on the market.

Point taken though from several above on not looking at it as Stepan vs Shatty, but too much is being made, IMO, about Stepan's NMC. It's a whopping two years, in his prime, when we are expected to still contend for Cups. It's not a 6 year albatross like Staal's.

Bottom line the organization is betting BIG TIME on Mika and Hayes... Hayes in particular scares me. Maybe they thought at Stepan trade time (when we didnt even know we'd land Shattenkirk) that we'd eventually trade for Kovy.. he would have been a tremendous fit here, who knows.

I think we can finish anywhere from 2nd in the division to 6th or 7th (depends if Carolina can ever kick it into gear). Philly and NYI will be better than last year. Washington a little worse, but still good. Columbus should put up 100+ points again. Its not a division you can relax in.

When the early AV era Rangers were really good, it was on the backs of long breakout passes from Ds that really had our forwards attacking on the rush. That disappeared in recent years, particularly with DG and Staal unable to execute even simple, short passes. Holden and Klein also were unable to make these long passes.

It's really hurt some guys. Rookie Hayes was magical on the rush, and Kreider's skill there is obvious. Other than Grabner, who has otherworldly speed and acceleration, our forwards need the first pass. If Shaty and the kids can give that boost, the offense could click again.

On a nice breakout pass from Shattenkirk.

Chytil potted the GWG on the PP in OT. Beauty of a pass from Zucc, believe Shatty got an assist on that one as well.

Obviously the results mean jack, but nice to see the young kids have some moments playing with a few of the regulars.

In comment 13607455 MetsAreBack said:

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In comment 13606690 pjcas18 said: Quote: I think the Girardi buyout and Klein retirement for Shattenkirk is more accurately how you explain it. My numbers are a bit rusty since its been 3 months since I looked at the cap, but I don't think this is true. They saved $2mm a year basically by cutting Girardi (but still have to pay him a couple mil a year for 6 more years now) and Klein only had 1 year left on his deal. Meanwhile, you signed Shattenkirk to a 4 year deal @ close to 7 a year (similar number and term as Stepan). And, with either Stepan or Shatty, this team is really going to be up against the cap next summer (or is it the summer after?) when McDonaugh and others have to be paid. At a minimum, Nash is a goner which is fine, but not sure what we have in the pipeline to replace his production. Either way - not sure how you equate buying out Girardi and losing a modest 1 year Klein salary with signing the most expensive free agent on the market. Point taken though from several above on not looking at it as Stepan vs Shatty, but too much is being made, IMO, about Stepan's NMC. It's a whopping two years, in his prime, when we are expected to still contend for Cups. It's not a 6 year albatross like Staal's. Bottom line the organization is betting BIG TIME on Mika and Hayes... Hayes in particular scares me. Maybe they thought at Stepan trade time (when we didnt even know we'd land Shattenkirk) that we'd eventually trade for Kovy.. he would have been a tremendous fit here, who knows. I think we can finish anywhere from 2nd in the division to 6th or 7th (depends if Carolina can ever kick it into gear). Philly and NYI will be better than last year. Washington a little worse, but still good. Columbus should put up 100+ points again. Its not a division you can relax in.

Both the players and/or the owners can opt out of the current CBA in September 2019. From what I've read most teams and the NHLPA are expecting one side or the other to opt out and teams are treating most long-term contracts as short-term (in reality), since after 2018 - 2019 there is uncertainty.

The Rangers saved $6M on the cap with those two defensive adjustments for 2017 - 2018. Less going forward, but my point is if they did not buyout Girardi and had Klein not retired Shattenkirk would not be a NY Ranger (even with the Stepan trade) IMO.

he was the youngest player in the draft. Just missed the cutoff for next year's draft where he likely would be a top 10 pick.

We may have struck gold there. He looked really good last night. Beyond just the goal

he was very under the radar and may have had the biggest jump in drat status of any player I recall in recent memory.

Pre-draft he was a 5th/6th rounder. He fell below that early in the season, and then surged all the way up to late 1st/early 2nd.

To me that's a sign of both teams not really seeing a player and a young kid growing into his body and physically maturing.

I liked him since the Hlinka Memorial last year when the Czech's beat the US, but I didn't think he'd be NHL ready so soon (if he is).

Several of the young guys have looked very good - Pionk, D'Angelo, Andersson, Chytil

Good to see Shattenkirk have a good game - will increase his trade value now that we don't need him with right-handed Nick Lidstrom in Pionk.

Kyle, someone on HF speculates that teams don't know how to deal with someone like Chytill who took a massive step up late in the year. They hugged their old valuations of him and didn't adjust for the late season growth. I thought that was an interesting theory.

and there were a lot of people questioning the pick. The numbers were nothing special, but he was a teenager playing in a top European pro league.

I didn't know a thing about the kid, but our scouting group has done a pretty good job mining talent, especially in Europe. And already both first rounders are impressing in various ways.

I don't think Chytil is actually a candidate to make the team like Lias. Lias is nearly a full year older. But he didn't look out of place at all on a powerplay unit with three NHL regulars on it. That's promising.

by far Brady Tkachuk IMO best player on the ice.

These are all US players who will be draft eligible in June.

Tkachuk is like Matthews and the opposite of Chytil, Tkachuk just missed the cut off for last years draft and is already 18.

He's also already 6'3 200 lbs, if he continues to progress and shines at the worlds he could join Matthews as the 2nd American in 3 years to go #1 overall.

Right now he is top 5, but a 6'3" center, with grit like he has and skill to match, he'll be #1, right now I think a couple D and a RW are ahead of him.

In comment 13610451 pjcas18 said:

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by far Brady Tkachuk IMO best player on the ice. These are all US players who will be draft eligible in June. Tkachuk is like Matthews and the opposite of Chytil, Tkachuk just missed the cut off for last years draft and is already 18. He's also already 6'3 200 lbs, if he continues to progress and shines at the worlds he could join Matthews as the 2nd American in 3 years to go #1 overall. Right now he is top 5, but a 6'3" center, with grit like he has and skill to match, he'll be #1, right now I think a couple D and a RW are ahead of him.

sorry, to be clear this was just US prospect in this game.

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�I�ve never walked out of a meeting with my head coach, but if I didn�t leave the room I was going to end up in Rikers for choking this little shithead within an inch of his miserable life. If he really believed that Henrik was playing poorly because of Tiny�s, then he knew nothing about his star player. Lundqvist was not working at Tiny�s, he was investing in it. Players have slumps. Anyone who knows how to coach professional athletes would know how to deal with that.� �I told [Rangers GM] Glen Sather about it, but he had nothing to say, really. He kept a poker face and wasn�t going to play his hand, but all he had to do was watch a game � he didn�t have to live through playing for a coach who responded to something he didn�t like on the ice by kicking water bottles or throwing shit on the bench or tugging on a player�s jersey and screaming at him and ripping him a new asshole.�

Yahoo - ( New Window )

which ... even if you believe Crosby and the health the past two years of Malkin... have 90% to do with Pittsburgh's 2 time defending champion status... seems kind of dumb in retrospect.

There was speculation that he has a difficult relationship with Kessel and Tocchet did the heavy lifting there.

from the SCF last year would be in my top 5 if I were starting a team.

I like Lavy a little more, but like both him and Sullivan.

And Sullivan does come across kind of douchy, but I think he's a good coach though I hated him when he coached the Bruins. Obviously.

Lazy pos.

In comment 13610973 BrettNYG10 said:

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Lazy pos.

Did they finish the top 20? I thought my list was the authority.

.

hockey memoir, but it's tough. So far, the list of things considered and rejected as too engrossing include:

-shampoo bottles
-financial services fine print
-random news articles written in Mandarin Chinese
-graffiti scrawled on the wall of a public toilet stall
-the instruction manual for a Xerox 3215
-lyrics to Bieber songs
-the script for Battlefield Earth

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-lyrics to Bieber songs

Offensive.

"Derek who?"

In comment 13611007 Greg from LI said:

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hockey memoir, but it's tough. So far, the list of things considered and rejected as too engrossing include: -shampoo bottles -financial services fine print -random news articles written in Mandarin Chinese -graffiti scrawled on the wall of a public toilet stall -the instruction manual for a Xerox 3215 -lyrics to Bieber songs -the script for Battlefield Earth

I laughed. But there is no way Greg came up with this list himself. Source please.

comes out Sunday night so 10 - 1 probably the night before the season opener.

In comment 13611883 pjcas18 said:

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Wow. Pathetic.

so I was already wrong, I didn't have Stamkos:
I was off, I missed Stamkos, so someone was already mentioned in my top 20.

20. Stamkos
19. Tavares
18. Ovie
17. Benn
16. Bobrovsky
15. Hedman
14. Tarasenko
13. Doughty
12. Marchand
11. Backstrom

special coming out this Wednesday on TSN
Link - ( New Window )

Thanks, pj.

How very droll.

for Canada last fall and had 85 points last season. If he's not 12, he's close to it

Unfortunately

He was #28 last year. He didnt climb to the top 10. No Rangers are making the top 50, from a team that blew it an missed the ECF last year because of their own untimely play.

re Torts. Yikes.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13617925 Kyle in NY said:

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for Canada last fall and had 85 points last season. If he's not 12, he's close to it Unfortunately

Agree. Can't stand Marchand, but he belongs there based on his 2016 - 2017. Good news is I think he's peaked.

2016-2017 is a significant blip for him based on career seasons, and he's 29 years old.

In comment 13617953 Deej said:

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He was #28 last year. He didnt climb to the top 10. No Rangers are making the top 50, from a team that blew it an missed the ECF last year because of their own untimely play.

So swap Hank for Stamkos and maybe my top 20 is 19/20.

.

In comment 13618369 BrettNYG10 said:

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.

I read the Rangers moved Miller to wing, and both Chytil and Andersson will make the team as centers.

AV must have some pressure on him.

Lindy Ruff is like the anti-AV. Hard to see those two working together, but him being part of the coaching staff makes Andersson and Chytil sticking more realistic.

Once again the league is trying to screw Jon Scott.

In comment 13618393 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13618369 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I read the Rangers moved Miller to wing, and both Chytil and Andersson will make the team as centers. AV must have some pressure on him. Lindy Ruff is like the anti-AV. Hard to see those two working together, but him being part of the coaching staff makes Andersson and Chytil sticking more realistic.

Both? I thought Desharnais was going to make the team ... and makes no sense to put either of these kids in a press box throughout the year.

And can we just trade Holden already???

on:

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Asked on Friday if he thought it were possible that both Lias Andersson and Filip Chytil could make the team to start the year, Alain Vigneault said that it was possible due to Jesper Fast being out until the end of October. Asked on Monday, Vigneault said that it was "possible" that the Rangers enter the season with two 18-year olds and that both Andersson and Chytil are scheduled to play the final two games of the preseason.

If I had a choice of Desharnais (who looks up to Zuccarello height wise) or a 18/19 year old with upside, I'd choose the 18/19 year old.

Desharnais is a solid 4th line player, on a bad depth team he could be a 3rd liner (like he was with MTL), but he's got a low ceiling and he's not a great skater (this may seem contrary to reports, what I mean is he's not strong on his skates, he's always on the ice, he's fast and a grinder, but gets knocked down and knocked off the puck easily). Andersson isn't a giant, at 5' 11", but he's more skilled than Desharnais in every area.

unrelated, I never realized Tkachuk and Hayes are cousins. those would be some great pickup skates at one of their home rinks with all the Tkachuk kids and the Hayes brothers, and Keith Tkachuk.

due in part to how well the young centers have played.

Just a guess but I think both will be with the team opening night. And one sticks with the team for the whole season. They can return each to Europe after nine games without burning a year off their ELC. I think they'll do that