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RUNNING BACK

MarineMan : 9/18/2017 9:30 am
I know there are few things that need to be fixed along the offense. I look at some of the RB's that came out of this last draft. I heard a few on here write about K. Hunt, D. Cook, and a few others. Even though it looks like the O-line will be having the same problems as last year. A good RB knows how to compensate and make things happen. The RB's on the roster either stay injured, cannot create a good run. When BJ and AB left, there hasn't been a RB that could make things happen like they did. I don't know if McAdoo's offense is the answer. The defense will wear down because this offensive scheme can't sustain consistent first downs. Not good at all!! Eli was at his best when there was strong running game. The only one on the roster that has an edge is O. Darkwa and that is only if he stays healthy. There isn't even a RB on the Practice Squad that we can say has potential. Maybe it is to early and it is a wait and see. But from what I and others are looking at. No running game the wins will be harder to get. I look at A. Morris sitting on the bench, which I think the Giants should have grabbed when he was released. The threat of a Running game in this offense is non existent. As long as it is in this state the Giants are in trouble. There will be some coming out next year. I hope I am wrong and things get better but if tonight is the same as last week. My favorite football team will have a long season. DAMN!!!!!
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/18/2017 9:54 am : link
We seem to have a talent issue at RB.
"Eli was at his best when there was strong running game."  
Mr. Bungle : 9/18/2017 9:57 am : link
False. See 2011.
.  
Gary JC : 9/18/2017 10:01 am : link
Watching Denver run the ball made me sick. Our Offensive Line and running backs suck. And I have little confidence in McA doodle on top of has game plans that suck as well.
RE:  
Rjanyg : 9/18/2017 10:09 am : link
In comment 13601708 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
False. See 2011.


Although we didn't have a great running game, defenses still had to respect it. Production was down but the play action pass was effective because we had the potential to run the ball. Bradshaw and Jacobs we good pass protectors and hard runners.

Right now nobody respects our running game, OL or RB's. This and the offensive style is different than in 2011. This is a pass first offense and the run game is set up off the pass.

I think after 3 full seasons teams have enough video to figure it out.
I believe its much more on the OL than on the RB"s at this point  
PatersonPlank : 9/18/2017 10:12 am : link
Until the OL improves, its hard to judge the RB's, Eli, or the WR's for that matter.
Gilbride used to set up the run with the pass...  
trueblueinpw : 9/18/2017 10:17 am : link
Obviously a different system from whatever the heck it is that McAdoo is running, but it used to be said that Gilbride's offense set up the run with the pass. Worth noting if only because there are ways that an offensive scheme can enable certain aspects of the game. As an example, if you can pass effectively then you may be be able to force defenses to think pass when you're running and run when you're passing. Or you can do it McAdoo's way - run the same play over and over again even though its not working.
Anyone see how an injured Charles  
Carl in CT : 9/18/2017 10:19 am : link
Hit the hole yesterday. We don't have that.
RE: ...  
Jon in NYC : 9/18/2017 10:21 am : link
In comment 13601703 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We seem to have a talent issue at RB.


This.

Not sure what Gallman and Darkwa need to do to get more carries, but I don't think Perkins is the guy we need.
RE: RE: ...  
Ron Johnson : 9/18/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13601747 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13601703 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


We seem to have a talent issue at RB.



This.

Not sure what Gallman and Darkwa need to do to get more carries, but I don't think Perkins is the guy we need.


for Gallman, dressing would be a good start.
OL or RB issue,  
lugnut : 9/18/2017 10:26 am : link
I haven't been impressed with a Giants run in literally years. Sad. And sorry, I haven't seen a thing in Perkins.
we have had a positional crisis at RB since 2012  
djm : 9/18/2017 10:33 am : link
it's ridiculous at this point.

I still disagree with the Giants not adding one single OL of note or one single RB of note this past off-season but I kind of made peace with it because they upgraded TE and WR and didn't really lose much on D---AND they added Gallman in round 4 of a very deep RB pool. And now he's inactive. That bothers me.

The Rbs are terrible until proven otherwise. They never make plays. Never.
RE: RE: ...  
chuckydee9 : 9/18/2017 10:33 am : link
In comment 13601747 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13601703 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


We seem to have a talent issue at RB.



This.

Not sure what Gallman and Darkwa need to do to get more carries, but I don't think Perkins is the guy we need.


I hate to say this but in a draft where RB talent was insane.. we ended picking up the next Andre Williams.. This draft has stud power RBs going well into the end of 3rd round and later..
RE: I believe its much more on the OL than on the RB  
djm : 9/18/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13601732 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Until the OL improves, its hard to judge the RB's, Eli, or the WR's for that matter.


There are still plays to be made. Granted the OL might not be blasting holes as frequently as the better OLs but there are still plays to be made. They aren't making any. It's a problem.
I agree that we have no superstars at RB...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/18/2017 10:36 am : link
Would love to see what this offense could do with someone who was really hard to bring down or with insane quickness to turn the corner on the outside runs. Right now, it doesn't seem like we have that player on this offense.
If you look around the league  
ShockNRoll : 9/18/2017 10:36 am : link
you will find at least 15 teams who have at least 2 RB that are better than anyone on our roster. Denver, KC, Cleveland, Chicago, NE, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Tennessee, Seattle, Arizona, Dallas, TB, NO, Carolina, Minnesota are the teams that I rattled off in my head without even really thinking about it. You can even add the Jets to this list. I know it's too early to tell what we really have in Perkins, and he could still break out, I'm just not confident he's the type of back who can touch the ball 15-20 times a game with consistent effectiveness.
I think...  
HoustonGiant : 9/18/2017 10:41 am : link
it's a lack of commitment to the run.
RE: Anyone see how an injured Charles  
SHO'NUFF : 9/18/2017 10:50 am : link
In comment 13601744 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Hit the hole yesterday. We don't have that.


Darkwa is our only guy that is close to fitting that description. He needs more carries than Perkins.
Didn't we all want Perkins to be our stafter last year?  
FatBoyLacy : 9/18/2017 10:58 am : link
What happened since then? I thought most Giants fans though he was our future starter
My issue with these RB, QB, WR comments on our lack of quality  
PatersonPlank : 9/18/2017 10:59 am : link
is that how do we know? With our OL opening no holes and providing no pass protection, we may have the next Gale Sayers and we wouldn't know it.
RE: I agree that we have no superstars at RB...  
djm : 9/18/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13601775 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
Would love to see what this offense could do with someone who was really hard to bring down or with insane quickness to turn the corner on the outside runs. Right now, it doesn't seem like we have that player on this offense.


A real talent at RB would cover up a lot of issues with this OL. Put yourself in a lineman's shoes. Wouldn't it make your life easier if you knew you were blocking for Eric Dickerson instead of a JAG? Of course it would. Not only would the better RB leave less meat on the bone he'd boost the confidence of the entire offense.

Again, I am not saying the OL is without issue. Of course it has issues. But these RBs aren't helping at all.
RE: we have had a positional crisis at RB since 2012  
Jay in Toronto : 9/18/2017 11:21 am : link
In comment 13601769 djm said:
Quote:
it's ridiculous at this point.

I still disagree with the Giants not adding one single OL of note or one single RB of note this past off-season but I kind of made peace with it because they upgraded TE and WR and didn't really lose much on D---AND they added Gallman in round 4 of a very deep RB pool. And now he's inactive. That bothers me.

The Rbs are terrible until proven otherwise. They never make plays. Never.


We seem to have had chronic positional crises at LB, TE, RB and OL (some might say FS).

Hopefully the first two may finally be solved -- still hard to bend my mind around that.
RE: My issue with these RB, QB, WR comments on our lack of quality  
djm : 9/18/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13601824 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
is that how do we know? With our OL opening no holes and providing no pass protection, we may have the next Gale Sayers and we wouldn't know it.


I'm sorry but with all due respect that's nonsense.

Are you really saying that a better talent at RB wouldn't gain more yards than the current backs? So Paul Perkins gains 3, a beast isn't gaining 5? or 10?

Like I said, the Giants couldn't run for shit back in the early 80s. DURING The season they traded for Rob Carpenter. All of a sudden the Giants found a running game. What about 2000? Ron Dayne fucking SUCKED. Tiki Barber was awesome. Was it all the OL? No. It was the RBs. One had it. The other did not.

What about 2012? Andre Brown showed flashes of greatness for 1-2 games while Bradshaw and Jacobs were dying a slow death. For one or two weeks the ground game looked terrific with Brown shredding the Panthers. Then he got hurt. And there went the running game.

This myth needs to stop that the OL makes or breaks the ground game. The OL is a big component but so is the RB.

Dallas running game was awesome in 2014. It was good in 2015. It was incredible in 2016. What changed? The RB.
We don't have an NFL caliber starting running back  
Marty866b : 9/18/2017 11:38 am : link
I've been saying that here for awhile. There have been many good backs that came out the last few years but we seemingly have picked the wrong ones. Has Perkins EVER broke one tackle? I would try Gallman but the Giants are afraid of blitz pickup. Plenty of rookie running backs play but why does it seems we only pick guys that can't handle the blitz?
The David Wilson flameout in 2013-2014 left a pretty deep mark.  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/18/2017 11:46 am : link
In the intervening years, I'm sure there have been backs the team liked more in the draft than Andre Williams, Paul Perkins and Wayne Gallman. Unfortunately, they also had much more pressing needs on Day 1 and Day 2 of the last four drafts, because the team has mostly stunk. Also, the stars haven't really aligned for an earlier RB pick. Kareem Hunt is one example. The Giants might not have passed on Webb anyway, but the fact is they missed out on a shot at Hunt by one pick. Ditto Tevin Coleman in the same round two years earlier.
Gallman should get a shot  
Elite Mobster #32 : 9/18/2017 11:59 am : link
Rookies run with wreck less abandon
Let's get this straight there are no 1000 yard running backs from the previous year or established backs.

In my opinion, Perkins looked slow and danced too much before hitting the hole. He played slow as hell in the first game, and I think he was carrying more weight on his frame to deal with the prescribed NFL hitting. I will bet he is going to be faster this week, if he dropped a few pounds to re-gain that quickness.
RE: ...  
FranknWeezer : 9/18/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13601703 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We seem to have a talent issue at RB.


I watched Devonta Freeman last night need to pick up a first down late in the game. The hole he was heading for was jammed up, so he put on the brakes, slid over to his right and barrelled forward two holes away for a nice big gain. In other words, he had the instinct to adjust on the fly when the intial plan was a bust. We haven't had somebody who could do that since Bradshaw and Barber, IMO. Sure don't seem to have it now.
The team is what it was built to be . . . .  
TC : 9/18/2017 12:13 pm : link
a team of well-rounded, athletic value picks.
If Perkins does nothing this game  
beatrixkiddo : 9/18/2017 12:20 pm : link
Then I think its time to start giving Gallman touches. Kid runs harder and with more conviction than any other RB on the roster. Darkwa looks ok, but we know its just a matter of time before he gets banged up.

Gallman might be just what this offense needs in an early down back, as long as he hits the hole hard and picks up 4 yards a pop, I'd be thrilled.
RB should've been taken in 3rd round instead of QB  
Earl the goat : 9/18/2017 12:25 pm : link
Donta Foreman would've been nice
They should throw a 5th rounder  
allstarjim : 9/18/2017 12:28 pm : link
at the Bengals for Jeremy Hill. He's the kind of RB this team needs. The Bengals also need to commit to Mixon, and Hill isn't going to sit well with that.

Otherwise, Perkins needs to be on a short leash and perhaps benched in favor of Darkwa.
We could have run on Dallas  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/18/2017 12:34 pm : link
we just chose not too.
Running back?  
Sarcastic Sam : 9/18/2017 12:36 pm : link
Eh. I'll just Uber.
If you don't have a capable OL  
jeff57 : 9/18/2017 12:36 pm : link
It doesn't matter who you have at RB.
James Connor  
Rico : 9/18/2017 12:44 pm : link
runs as much like Brandon Jacobs as any RB I've seen in the last 10 years. I would have loved him in the 3rd round over a developmental QB.

The Steelers took him after us in the 3rd, and he is Bell's primary backup, getting touches as a rookie.
OL problems aside,  
TC : 9/18/2017 12:45 pm : link
I think both Perkins and Gallman have potential, Darkwa is what he's always been erratic, injury prone but sometimes tough at the P.O.A.

David Wilson, was a fantastic athlete but one who had a high injury/bust potential, and sadly the injury got there first.

But while Gallman is tough on contact, both he and Perkins have the issue of being light in the pants, and this has been a trend in Giants' RB drafting. ANY draftee may, or may not, prove to be good in the NFL. But if your primary criteria are for a well-rounded, athlete rather than a size/power/football player, in the first instance you're left with a RB who isn't going to be of much use, whereas in the second you have one who's still big and powerful, even if they're never going to be a star.
RE: ...  
Matt M. : 9/18/2017 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13601703 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We seem to have a talent issue at RB.
I don't think we do. We definitely don't have an elite RB. But, we do have decent talent there. I thought Perkins and Darkwa looked OK last week. The problem was we barely ran the ball and couldn't sustain any drives to give them more touches. Maybe if we didn't throw a 2 yard pass every time we got in to 3rd and 5 or less, we could have actually run the ball a little more. I was also pleasantly surprised that we did convert on the 1 3rd and short that we ran (to Darkwa).
I like Perkins a lot...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/18/2017 1:00 pm : link
He's still young, and who knows what he'll mature into. I also have seem flashes from Darkwa and am hopeful for Gallman.

Having said that - all of them have so far gone down fairly easily - they aren't breaking many tackles or pushing the pile much.

And while Perkins does show a little bit of elusivity, right now that skill is working against him. He's shown that he can make people miss, but I'm not sure he knows when to use that skill. He's trying to use it at the LOS and not used it enough in the open field (not that he's reached the second level much, but still).

Another bit of a mystery is what we really have at RB with Vereen. He's clearly a good receiving back, but are we telegraphing things a bit too much by making him, our highest paid back, a 3rd down only back? I'd like to see a few more carries with him if he's up to it. If he isn't he probably isn't worth his contract imo.
We can always pick up...  
Chris in Philly : 9/18/2017 1:11 pm : link
Blount when he is released after his inevitable blow up with Doug Pederson...
RE: If you don't have a capable OL  
spike : 9/18/2017 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13601988 jeff57 said:
Quote:
It doesn't matter who you have at RB.


This. Fire Reese
Certainly not a lot of explosiveness  
Simms11 : 9/18/2017 1:14 pm : link
in that group, however, I liked what I saw from Gallman in Pre-Season. He could really help the running game down the road. Let's see how it plays out in the first quarter of the season first.
RE: We can always pick up...  
allstarjim : 9/18/2017 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13602039 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Blount when he is released after his inevitable blow up with Doug Pederson...


If they weren't in on Blount in the offseason I think they just don't want him. He signed for 1 year and $1.25 million.

I think he would've given the Giants' a "hammer" option in the backfield that they really need, and they passed.
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