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Eli Manning Is Profoundly Mediocre

GiantFilthy : 9/18/2017 4:45 pm
Quote:
Even after Eli Manning’s 200 consecutive regular-season NFL starts, quantifying his career is difficult.

Manning is in his 14th season, and nearly every one has felt like a crossroads. Which quarterback would show up for the Giants: the one capable of winning two Super Bowl MVPs — or the one capable of leading the NFL in interceptions for three seasons?

The answer was probably somewhere in between. Manning has been reliably, and historically, mediocre.

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RE: GFilthy ...  
Jay on the Island : 9/18/2017 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13602419 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Clearly you know absolutely nothing about QB play or football in general. Eli is THE best QB the Giants have ever had ... Given the relative lack of talent he's had in front of him thru the years, he's actually been amazing. Does he have warts? sure ... but except for a few, they all do.

I guess you don't know Filthy well as he is among the most sarcastic posters on this site.
Face it, most people who don't watch the Giants  
Mike from Ohio : 9/18/2017 5:18 pm : link
week in and week out just look at the stats and the highlights and base their opinion on that. Eli rarely puts up gaudy stats, and even when he does, chances are the highlights most people see will also show him throwing a pick and then standing on the sideline with a typical Eli look on his face. When you put those optics together, people think he can't possibly be good, and when he does something extraordinary they chalk it up to luck.

After he is retired people will appreciate what a good QB he was, but it won't happen until he is gone a while.
he might be mediocore but he made two of the most  
gtt350 : 9/18/2017 5:22 pm : link
famous and clutch throws ever made on the biggest stage
These Eli threads are draining  
exiled : 9/18/2017 5:24 pm : link
He's the problem
Carry the team
$20M
Iron horse
He's not the problem
Immobile
The line is gonna kill him
Back 9
Bad play calling

... and he was only ever mediocre anyway

Sweet Jesus
RE: Eli has had some poor and mediocre moments  
TheMick7 : 9/18/2017 5:26 pm : link
In comment 13602414 joeinpa said:
Quote:
But it takes a special player to have done what he did during the post seasons of 07, 11.

Some big name quarterbacks have hade their mediocre moments in big spots. Eli has shown his greatness in those spots.

Eli has been a winner. The totally of his statics are for those who don t want to except his greatness in those big moments.


This says it all Eli=Winner Everything else is just BS Tonight,10th Anniversary of SBXLII Champs-who was QB?
What is Eli NOW?  
AnnapolisMike : 9/18/2017 5:30 pm : link
The past is the past and it will likely earn him a spot in the Hall of Fame. The article is not unfair to Eli who has never been among the best QB in the league in terms of statistical performance. Ask yourself a question. How long would Eli's leash be this season if he NEVER had won a Superbowl?

What can Eli do NOW to improve the performance of the offense? Time for him to earn his cap hit of $20M+.
He's had a strange career.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/18/2017 5:32 pm : link
.
More proof that history repeats itself...  
BamaBlue : 9/18/2017 5:46 pm : link
Phil Simms got the same crap that Eli Manning gets. Phil, because of injuries and a bad few years. Eli gets crapped-on because of the expectation for him coming out of college with the "Manning pedigree." Eli is not Peyton, but he's certainly not Archie...
Did ANYONE watch last year's playoff game??  
JohnB : 9/18/2017 5:50 pm : link
Anyone?

Eli was spot on. He had that killer look. He was getting the job done in a big spot 9as he always does). The WRs let him down, big time.

This game hasn't passed by Eli, it's just that people fail to understand basic football.
I'm tired of hearing about Gilbride's QB unfriendly offense  
widmerseyebrow : 9/18/2017 5:52 pm : link
It was objectively the best offense in Giants' history. It was perfect for Eli's skillset and he mastered it. The offensive line got qb unfriendly.
RE: Has there..  
micky : 9/18/2017 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13602406 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
been another player with his credentials that gets criticized like this? Think about it. Eli Manning was the SB MVP twice on teams that weren't even the best in the league. True underdog scenarios and his reward is making it seem like he lucked out twice.

Tony Romo hung around for three injury plagued seasons and he rides off into the sunset. Philip Rivers hasn't won squat and he's still called clutch and at the top of his game. Cam Newton has been as average as anyone and gets a pass.

It just boggles my mind.



I think it's more about how he came into the league (the whole San Diego draft situation) where the people who criticize him hang onto the notion that he was a douche for for him and his dad Archie snubbing san diego and choosing where he wanted to play instead excepting to go to chargers.(which in truth that's not how it went down but people who are crical and anti- eli - media etc -
believe it that way)
RE: GFilthy ...  
MetsAreBack : 9/18/2017 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13602419 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Clearly you know absolutely nothing about QB play or football in general. Eli is THE best QB the Giants have ever had ... Given the relative lack of talent he's had in front of him thru the years, he's actually been amazing. Does he have warts? sure ... but except for a few, they all do.


There is is a lot of EDD on BBI  
JerrysKids : 9/18/2017 6:07 pm : link
(Eli Decline Denial). I'm convinced that Eli is completely finished. Even if he had a good running game and a good offensive line he would still struggle to make plays. It's time to move on.
It appears to all that Eli is nearing the and of his career  
arniefez : 9/18/2017 6:08 pm : link
at least with the Giants. When he leaves please sign me up for a QB who wins 2 Super Bowls and throws for 50,000 yards to replace him.
RE: There is is a lot of EDD on BBI  
speedywheels : 9/18/2017 6:17 pm : link
In comment 13602475 JerrysKids said:
Quote:
(Eli Decline Denial). I'm convinced that Eli is completely finished. Even if he had a good running game and a good offensive line he would still struggle to make plays. It's time to move on.


OK. Share with us your eternal wisdom as to why he is "completely finished".

This should be entertaining...
This  
oldutican : 9/18/2017 6:19 pm : link
Above all, that may be Manning’s greatest skill: just being there. Since he took the starting quarterback job away from Kurt Warner in November 2004, the Giants have not had to worry about the position, allowing the team to devote resources and draft picks to other areas.

'Being there' is not an insult, but a big compliment. When the team around him has been good, he rose to the moment. When the team has been bad, he has taken his licks and kept ticking. Eli has never been a great athlete. He is a resilient and mentally strong craftsman. Some guys have the natural talent and don't use it. Guys like Eli make the most of their abilities and have productive careers.
There's an interesting quote at the end of the article...  
Go Terps : 9/18/2017 6:23 pm : link
Quote:
A handful of high-leverage highlights can’t outweigh hundreds of games’ worth of mediocre play, not when we’re trying to pick the best of the best.


Isn't this the nature of the argument when it comes to determining Eli's place in NFL history?

I know that, for me, victories in Super Bowls and conference championships (what I would call high leverage games) can indeed outweigh many games of mediocre play.

The author brings up 2011, pointing out that while it's Eli's best year it still isn't close to what Aaron Rodgers did that same season. And he's right...Rodgers's stats blew Eli's out of the water and he was the rightful regular season MVP.

But did Rodgers really have a better 2011 than Eli? Did the Packers have a better 2011 than the Giants? Did the people of Green Bay have a better 2011 than we did?
RE: There's an interesting quote at the end of the article...  
BrettNYG10 : 9/18/2017 6:34 pm : link
In comment 13602490 Go Terps said:
Quote:


Quote:


A handful of high-leverage highlights can’t outweigh hundreds of games’ worth of mediocre play, not when we’re trying to pick the best of the best.



Isn't this the nature of the argument when it comes to determining Eli's place in NFL history?

I know that, for me, victories in Super Bowls and conference championships (what I would call high leverage games) can indeed outweigh many games of mediocre play.

The author brings up 2011, pointing out that while it's Eli's best year it still isn't close to what Aaron Rodgers did that same season. And he's right...Rodgers's stats blew Eli's out of the water and he was the rightful regular season MVP.

But did Rodgers really have a better 2011 than Eli? Did the Packers have a better 2011 than the Giants? Did the people of Green Bay have a better 2011 than we did?


I think Eli's 2011 season continues to be criminally underrated - both the regular season and playoffs.

If Eli only had one ring, I can see the argument that maybe he shouldn't get in the HOF. I don't consider Flacco a HOF'er. But Eli had two, won MVP twice, and has consistently been a top ten QB (with a couple of outliers).
The problem with Eli  
section125 : 9/18/2017 6:57 pm : link
is that he is fully capable of leading a team to a Super Bowl victory and looking brilliant doing so, yet he makes some of the worst decisions for a QB of his caliber. He is an enigma. That is what people see. They see happy feet, inaccurate passes, mind boggling interception throws and included with 2 game super Bowl game winning drives.
He is inconsistent, infuriating and brilliant.

Giants fans know what he is capable of; other fans see last Monday night, i.e., (oline included) with missed wide open receivers, passes short of the line of gain and inability to avoid the rush.

Is Eli profoundly Mediocre? Not with two Super Bowls wins and MVPs - but other than that probably so...
Tony Romeo won two PO games in his career  
map7711 : 9/18/2017 7:00 pm : link
Not even in the same year yet he's treated like a hero in Dallas

Here Eli won two SBs and some fans shit on him. Just unreal.
Romo  
map7711 : 9/18/2017 7:00 pm : link
Spell check
RE: More proof that history repeats itself...  
WillVAB : 9/18/2017 7:03 pm : link
In comment 13602449 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
Phil Simms got the same crap that Eli Manning gets. Phil, because of injuries and a bad few years. Eli gets crapped-on because of the expectation for him coming out of college with the "Manning pedigree." Eli is not Peyton, but he's certainly not Archie...


Yep. Funny how history repeats itself. Wouldn't be surprised if the Giants are cursed with 20 years of shitty QB play after Eli.
The next guy will not be as good as Eli  
Go Terps : 9/18/2017 7:06 pm : link
But if the Giants are smart, he won't have to be. There are plenty of teams playing good football in the league without a blue chip quarterback.
Stupid proof  
Deej : 9/18/2017 7:22 pm : link
that's not proof of being mediocre, period.

Quote:
the one capable of winning two Super Bowl MVPs — or the one capable of leading the NFL in interceptions for three seasons?


Silly dichotomy. Favre led the lead in picks 3 times. Moon, Marino, Brees, Kelly, Peyton Manning all did it at least once. Eli's INT% career is equal or better than Elway, Favre, Moon, Kelly, Staubach, Tark, and Unitas.

Quote:
Only 10 quarterbacks in NFL history have started at least 200 games, according to Pro-Football-Reference.com, and the list is a who’s who of all-time legends: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Warren Moon and John Elway. And Eli Manning. And, OK, Vinny Testaverde — but still... Among that group, Eli Manning ranks either last, or ahead of only Testaverde,1 in nearly every season-indexed rate stat


So at best that's an argument that he's worse than 8 of the all time great productive QBs. Hardly a measure of mediocrity.

I have no idea how QBR works, so I cant respond to that.

Eli is not a great stats compiler. So he's going to be controversial. He also had fewer weapons than his contemporaries until very recently. But he's not mediocre. It's silly to assert that.

...  
christian : 9/18/2017 7:23 pm : link
Acknowledging Manning has had a statitiscally mediocre career on the aggregate is not an affront to his value, his clutchness or his character.

He's been of tremendous value on the intagibles that translate to success. The staff has not needed to revamp systems, dumb down game plans, allocate inordinate time to the QB - all things a team with a revolving door at QB must do.

And that investment has led to more winning years than losing years. The Giants have had 3 losing years since Manning's first full year starting.

He's been mediocre on the per year stat sheet, and anyone who denies that is a dodo.

But he's been consistent and reliable over a decade plus of football. And that's remarkable.

We're still in the Eli Manning era. Think about that. That's an amazing accomplishment and has allowed for many winning seasons and 2 rings.
Stat they showed on ESPN....  
Britt in VA : 9/18/2017 7:28 pm : link
94 Passing TD's since 2014, good for 5th in the NFL among active QB's over the same time period.
Think about this...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/18/2017 7:32 pm : link
Dak Prescott has probably had more favorable things said about him in one season than eli has in a career. Wentz probably isn't far behind.

That's criminal.
RE: Think about this...  
Britt in VA : 9/18/2017 7:34 pm : link
In comment 13602598 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Dak Prescott has probably had more favorable things said about him in one season than eli has in a career. Wentz probably isn't far behind.

That's criminal.


In the article posted this morning about "Eli running on fumes", three unnamed NFL executives said they would take Prescott over Eli hands down.
He's an easy mark  
pganut : 9/18/2017 7:36 pm : link
Because they know Eli, as well as the Giants organization, won't respond/retaliate in any way. Petty is not the Giants way, so the tabloidesque "reporting" can continue unabated (see: Beckham, Odell). They'll sing a different tune when #10 enters Canton.
Just look at..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/18/2017 7:43 pm : link
the bias the Giants have had vs. the perception of even the great 80's teams. Harry Carson and LT are the only HOF'ers from a team that dominated half a decade, and even then it took nearly an act of congress to get Carson elected. OJ Anderson isn't in. Carl Banks isn't in. Phil Simms isn't in. Meanwhile, the Bears had several players, including Dan Hampton. The Cowboys and Niners had several as well.

It's been bullshit for decades now.
love eli, one of my favorite all time giants, but i will say this  
japanhead : 9/18/2017 7:49 pm : link
he needs to get more comfortable tucking and running for like 3 yards if things are going that way.. he can't just stand there. good qbs keep drives alive doing this, esp in today's NFL. it's one of those intangibles he's never really had. obviously with a line like he's got that weakness is magnified. and he's not great throwing on the move after things break down, though he's had his moments (i.e., the tyree heave in 42)
Blind Blue Bleeding  
xman : 9/18/2017 7:50 pm : link
giant fan
Streaky QB  
LatHarv83 : 9/18/2017 7:52 pm : link
With flashes of greatness. Never sustained greatness with the possible exception of 2011, a season which will still not crack anybody's short list of all time great seasons unless they are an unabashed Giants homer. His seasons with Mcadoo as OC are underrated due to lack of team success, those were also high caliber years. He's had some low lows though. Weird career. Strange path. Tough to rank, tired of listening to people try. He's way better than some of his detractors would lead you to believe but not nearly as good as those who want to cite 2 rings and end the convo there

His durability is something we all take for granted but is pretty damn amazing. Honestly more impressive to me than anything on his resume'
Here is what I know-  
Sean : 9/18/2017 7:52 pm : link
Since the beginning, there have been a ton of people (including Giant fans) who have said they would rather have the following QB's over Eli at one point over another:

Chad Pennington
Vince Young
Matt Schaub
David Garrard
Matt Hasselbeck
Michael Vick
Donovan McNabb
Colin Kaepernick
Jay Cutler
Josh Freeman

That's just a few. There have been a ton others which I forget.

I'll never understand it honestly. Maybe it's his look. Maybe it's the faces he makes. All I know is this, all we ever hear about is how tough Big Ben is, yet Eli never gets those same accolades. What is tough? How about that NFC title game in SF?

Eli throws a lot of picks & he's inconsistent. I'll say this though- if Eli wasn't Eli, and someone who cared about throwing less picks, Tyree & Manningham throws never happen.

He's led all or nothing Giant teams, no doubt. 2008 & 2010 were missed opportunities, but good years. I'm very thankful for the Eli era and how relevant the Giants have been. Just look at all the prime time games.

RE: Here is what I know-  
Britt in VA : 9/18/2017 8:09 pm : link
In comment 13602632 Sean said:
Quote:
Since the beginning, there have been a ton of people (including Giant fans) who have said they would rather have the following QB's over Eli at one point over another:

Chad Pennington
Vince Young
Matt Schaub
David Garrard
Matt Hasselbeck
Michael Vick
Donovan McNabb
Colin Kaepernick
Jay Cutler
Josh Freeman

That's just a few. There have been a ton others which I forget.

I'll never understand it honestly. Maybe it's his look. Maybe it's the faces he makes. All I know is this, all we ever hear about is how tough Big Ben is, yet Eli never gets those same accolades. What is tough? How about that NFC title game in SF?

Eli throws a lot of picks & he's inconsistent. I'll say this though- if Eli wasn't Eli, and someone who cared about throwing less picks, Tyree & Manningham throws never happen.

He's led all or nothing Giant teams, no doubt. 2008 & 2010 were missed opportunities, but good years. I'm very thankful for the Eli era and how relevant the Giants have been. Just look at all the prime time games.


It's been absolutely fucking nuts. It's even laughable.
RE: Think about this...  
christian : 9/18/2017 8:20 pm : link
In comment 13602598 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Dak Prescott has probably had more favorable things said about him in one season than eli has in a career. Wentz probably isn't far behind.

That's criminal.


Lol say what
After last week's game,  
Mark C : 9/18/2017 8:30 pm : link
I've reluctantly decided to count myself among those who think Eli is done.

That said, the idea that he's had a mediocre career is just plain ridiculous. (Can't help but think this narrative is more than tinged with a serious anti-NY bias.)
Looks like Eli  
TMS : 9/18/2017 8:48 pm : link
has slipped but that happens. The organization blew it and his career with the bad draft and FA signing since the SBs. Had we protected him with a good OL we would have a couple of more SBs, MO.
At this point,  
Giants_ROK : 9/18/2017 9:18 pm : link
mediocrity would be welcome.
Hmmm...  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/18/2017 9:40 pm : link
.
Washed up  
well...bye TC : 9/18/2017 9:43 pm : link
thanks for the memories.
Eli is terrible  
LG in NYC : 9/18/2017 9:54 pm : link
he is now actually hurting the team.
I know that it's pretty big "if" but if Eli didn't win those  
BestFeature : 9/18/2017 10:02 pm : link
Super Bowls he'd be Jay Cutler...maybe. He'd be considered a bust for sure.
Bait  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/18/2017 10:27 pm : link
.
unless you guys think his arm has gone bad  
HomerJones45 : 9/18/2017 10:38 pm : link
and there is no evidence that his arm strength has declined, he didn't forget how to play qb or throw passes. This is a bad offense and a bad scheme.
Well don't question Manning's toughness  
SimpleMan : 9/18/2017 10:50 pm : link
he just took a fucking shot
Reese's OLine nearly got him killed.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/18/2017 10:54 pm : link
.
This shit pissses me off  
Steve L : 9/18/2017 10:56 pm : link
He's a winner and he's tough as nails. Would you rather be like the Bills or Browns who have had 15 or more QBs since Manning stepped on the field? Jesus.
Detroit has a pretty bad OL too, and you can see how an average  
Jim in Hoboken : 9/18/2017 11:06 pm : link
athlete like Stafford can do to help the protection. Unfortunately we have Eli. Eli is great, his history here is unquestioned, but we know he has limitations.

Reese and this idiot coach know that too I am sure. How come we don't construct this team to hide his deficiencies and enhance his strengths is truly beyond me.
RE: unless you guys think his arm has gone bad  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/18/2017 11:17 pm : link
In comment 13604168 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
and there is no evidence that his arm strength has declined, he didn't forget how to play qb or throw passes. This is a bad offense and a bad scheme.


You forgot unqualified HC. He was barely qualified to be an OC.

How people don't see it's pretty much OBJ is amazing. He doesn't coach well. But hey. Mara and Stevie love him. Great.
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