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McAdoo isn't shy about criticizing Eli

Danny Kanell : 9/18/2017 11:43 pm
But is very careful about not criticizing Flowers and others. Anyone catch the "sloppy QB play" comment? And a couple other comments on the turnover and bad throw comments. But made sure when the reporters were pushing on Flowers, he said it's not just one player.
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RE: RE: RE: Listening to McAdoo's criticism - makes the OP sound unfair  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 12:17 am : link
In comment 13605369 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 13605301 PatersonPlank said:


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In comment 13605274 jcn56 said:


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A reporter asked about the delay of game penalty, and McAdoo blamed 'sloppy QB play' and said the QB and center had to be on the same page.

Considering Eli has been having those delay of game issues for a long time, maybe he's got a point on that.



Just watched it, I didn't think he through Eli under the bus. Mentioned a lot of times about the duress he was under. Yes he hated the Int, but so did I. He also seemed to signal OL changes, basically saying everything is on the table.

He's rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic but I suppose he needs to try something. If you love Flowers' act, you'll adore Fluker as it is much the same. Jones, the rose of the CFL? There is not a lot to work with.


I think they have to try Pugh-Flowers-Richberg-Fluker-Wheeler

See if Flowers and Fluker can play in a phone booth and hopefully provide some push up the middle.
RE: RE: RE: The funny thing about many of those that defend McAdoo?  
HomerJones45 : 9/19/2017 12:17 am : link
In comment 13605353 jcn56 said:
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In comment 13605290 crick n NC said:


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In comment 13605277 montanagiant said:


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Is the fact they blame the Offensive Line talent (Which is absolutely 100% justified to a degree) while also wanting to point the finger on Eli as playing bad when he has zero running game or time to throw due to the same horrid offensive line that they use as an excuse for McAdoo.



Montana, I do find it interesting that fans understand the OL stinks, but blame the qb in the same breath



Because Eli is hanging the OL and offense out to dry at other times. It's a symbiotic relationship; holding the ball too long, making an audible into a run play when the D has stacked the box - isn't doing the OL any favors either.

Further, have you spent some time watching OL play around the league lately? Nobody gets 4-5 seconds a play to pass on every passing down - not even Prescott, who has to rely on his mobility plenty to make plays when protection breaks down. That's what lead to his poor passing performance against Denver this past weekend.

Eli was a BIG reason we went into the tunnel losing at the half.
LOL. Ludicrous unless you mean holding the ball for two seconds is holding it too long. Ansah made Flowers his bitch the whole first half.
So he should dump it off?  
KWhite2250 : 9/19/2017 12:19 am : link
But he's also getting killed for checking down also. He's damned with whatever he does it seems.

And I do think he's not been great in these 2 games. His pass to Engram was behind and it did absolutely lead to a momentum change.
RE: So he should dump it off?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/19/2017 12:25 am : link
In comment 13605424 KWhite2250 said:
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But he's also getting killed for checking down also. He's damned with whatever he does it seems.

And I do think he's not been great in these 2 games. His pass to Engram was behind and it did absolutely lead to a momentum change.


He's getting killed for checkdowns on 3rd and whatever.

He's been around far too long to take a couple of the drive killing sacks he took in the first half. The ball must be thrown away.
RE: So he should dump it off?  
HomerJones45 : 9/19/2017 12:26 am : link
In comment 13605424 KWhite2250 said:
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But he's also getting killed for checking down also. He's damned with whatever he does it seems.

And I do think he's not been great in these 2 games. His pass to Engram was behind and it did absolutely lead to a momentum change.
That was on Engram. Lions were in a zone and the kid should have stopped between the two defenders in front him which is where the ball went. If Eli had led him, he would have thrown it right to the defender.
Replay starts at the 1:10 mark - ( New Window )
RE: RE: So he should dump it off?  
HomerJones45 : 9/19/2017 12:27 am : link
In comment 13605451 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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In comment 13605424 KWhite2250 said:


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But he's also getting killed for checking down also. He's damned with whatever he does it seems.

And I do think he's not been great in these 2 games. His pass to Engram was behind and it did absolutely lead to a momentum change.



He's getting killed for checkdowns on 3rd and whatever.

He's been around far too long to take a couple of the drive killing sacks he took in the first half. The ball must be thrown away.
Watch the replays. He had less than 2.5 seconds on each of Ansah's sacks. Ansah really had his way with Flowers in the first half.
RE: RE: So he should dump it off?  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 12:28 am : link
In comment 13605455 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 13605424 KWhite2250 said:


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But he's also getting killed for checking down also. He's damned with whatever he does it seems.

And I do think he's not been great in these 2 games. His pass to Engram was behind and it did absolutely lead to a momentum change.

That was on Engram. Lions were in a zone and the kid should have stopped between the two defenders in front him which is where the ball went. If Eli had led him, he would have thrown it right to the defender. Replay starts at the 1:10 mark - ( New Window )


So, your position is he shouldn't have thrown it in front of Engram, but he threw it behind him where Engram couldn't catch it.

Sounds about right.
Do you even read the articles you link?  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 12:29 am : link
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Manning was sacked four times, with Flowers getting embarrassed by Ziggy Ansah. Twice, Manning held the ball too long waiting for his targets to break free for coverage sacks, but this was another unmitigated mess up front.
RE: RE: So he should dump it off?  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 12:30 am : link
In comment 13605455 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 13605424 KWhite2250 said:


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But he's also getting killed for checking down also. He's damned with whatever he does it seems.

And I do think he's not been great in these 2 games. His pass to Engram was behind and it did absolutely lead to a momentum change.

That was on Engram. Lions were in a zone and the kid should have stopped between the two defenders in front him which is where the ball went. If Eli had led him, he would have thrown it right to the defender. Replay starts at the 1:10 mark - ( New Window )

LOL...You're absolutely correct that would have most likely been a pick 6 also
RE: RE: RE: So he should dump it off?  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 12:32 am : link
In comment 13605463 jcn56 said:
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In comment 13605455 HomerJones45 said:


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In comment 13605424 KWhite2250 said:


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But he's also getting killed for checking down also. He's damned with whatever he does it seems.

And I do think he's not been great in these 2 games. His pass to Engram was behind and it did absolutely lead to a momentum change.

That was on Engram. Lions were in a zone and the kid should have stopped between the two defenders in front him which is where the ball went. If Eli had led him, he would have thrown it right to the defender. Replay starts at the 1:10 mark - ( New Window )



So, your position is he shouldn't have thrown it in front of Engram, but he threw it behind him where Engram couldn't catch it.

Sounds about right.

You need to honestly watch the replay he linked. He leads him that is right in the hands of the LB dropping back into coverage. Now you can critique him for not throwing it away but the pass was in the only spot possible to EE on that play
He held the ball too long on one of the sacks in the first half and  
Devon : 9/19/2017 12:32 am : link
there was another coverage sack, where he was trying to make a play down field (you know, as opposed to what he's been getting killed for doing lately).

That was it.

I'm someone who has been open about thinking his clock is permanently busted, but people killing him for his pocket presence or trying to scapegoat him to cushion blame for the OL, especially Flowers, after this game is nuts.
For what it's worth  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 12:33 am : link
I also felt that was an off-target throw but seeing that replay shows that was the only spot
That pick  
Marty866b : 9/19/2017 12:33 am : link
Was totally on the quarterback. Anyone thinking differently is just an Eli apologist. That may have been the biggest play of the game. We finally for the first time this season got some momentum. Eli killed it on one play. I don't care what his numbers say, Eli was total crap in the first half. An old,immobile quarterback behind this offensive line and lack of running game is a definite recipe for failure. I kind of wish this season was already over. There is a lot more aggravation to look forward to.
So, the only spot to throw it to was where it was picked off?  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 12:36 am : link
I vote for 'don't throw the damn ball there' then.

Of course, I saw the play - and there was absolutely a play to be made, but it would have required an excellent throw. The good news is Eli can still make them, and did tonight. The bad news is they're still interspersed with poor throws and bad decisions, as has been the case for some time with Eli.
In that clip  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 12:36 am : link
All Engram has to do is slow down a step to make that catch in stride.

RE: RE: RE: So he should dump it off?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/19/2017 12:38 am : link
In comment 13605460 HomerJones45 said:
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Watch the replays. He had less than 2.5 seconds on each of Ansah's sacks. Ansah really had his way with Flowers in the first half.


The Haloti Ngata sack 2 plays into the game... the ball has to come out of his hand or he has to take off running.

The Jarrad Davis sack on 1st & 10 fake reverse... the ball has to come out of his hand or he must throw it away.

Those were both preventable sacks and both killed 1st half drives.
RE: In that clip  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 12:43 am : link
In comment 13605501 WillVAB said:
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All Engram has to do is slow down a step to make that catch in stride.


So in this parallel universe, QBs don't hit receivers in stride, they expect players to slow down and arrive at a point simultaneous to the ball?

Sounds interesting - nothing like football the way it's played everywhere else.
RE: So, the only spot to throw it to was where it was picked off?  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 12:46 am : link
In comment 13605498 jcn56 said:
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I vote for 'don't throw the damn ball there' then.

Of course, I saw the play - and there was absolutely a play to be made, but it would have required an excellent throw. The good news is Eli can still make them, and did tonight. The bad news is they're still interspersed with poor throws and bad decisions, as has been the case for some time with Eli.
WHere should the pass have been to him to make a play?
If you're throwing to Engram, there's no excuse - you hit him  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 12:48 am : link
in stride and he makes the catch. If he doesn't - it's on him.

Throwing it behind him - where there's literally no chance of him catching it - because there was a defender up top implies Eli shouldn't have been throwing to him in the first place.

It was a bad throw - both BM and Eli admitted as much in their post game pressers.
RE: RE: In that clip  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 12:49 am : link
In comment 13605516 jcn56 said:
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In comment 13605501 WillVAB said:


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All Engram has to do is slow down a step to make that catch in stride.




So in this parallel universe, QBs don't hit receivers in stride, they expect players to slow down and arrive at a point simultaneous to the ball?

Sounds interesting - nothing like football the way it's played everywhere else.
Yes that is called sitting in the soft spot of the Zone. This what Witten excels at. Now an argument that the ball should have been thrown elsewhere might be able to be made but would have to wait until the Coach's Tape replay is on Direct T.V's NFL pkg
RE: If you're throwing to Engram, there's no excuse - you hit him  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/19/2017 12:50 am : link
In comment 13605531 jcn56 said:
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in stride and he makes the catch. If he doesn't - it's on him.

Throwing it behind him - where there's literally no chance of him catching it - because there was a defender up top implies Eli shouldn't have been throwing to him in the first place.

It was a bad throw - both BM and Eli admitted as much in their post game pressers.


I completely agree. I don't see how that isn't on Eli. It was the play of the game IMO.
RE: RE: In that clip  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 12:50 am : link
In comment 13605516 jcn56 said:
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In comment 13605501 WillVAB said:


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All Engram has to do is slow down a step to make that catch in stride.




So in this parallel universe, QBs don't hit receivers in stride, they expect players to slow down and arrive at a point simultaneous to the ball?

Sounds interesting - nothing like football the way it's played everywhere else.


Yea because players just run full speed like a video game and never adjust to the ball.

The ball was thrown in the only spot it could be thrown. Really the only criticism I see on that play is maybe trying to hit him early before Davis recognizes the play and drops into the passing lane.

You're just being ridiculous. Eli has to throw between two LBs in a zone to a guy who runs a 4.4 across the defenders. The throw ending up being about a foot behind his hands in stride but still catchable.
RE: If you're throwing to Engram, there's no excuse - you hit him  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 12:51 am : link
In comment 13605531 jcn56 said:
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in stride and he makes the catch. If he doesn't - it's on him.

Throwing it behind him - where there's literally no chance of him catching it - because there was a defender up top implies Eli shouldn't have been throwing to him in the first place.

It was a bad throw - both BM and Eli admitted as much in their post game pressers.
You can't on that play if you watch the replay. You have a LB dropping back completely in the spot that pass would be. There is no window there to lead him unless you have another 2 secs to let him clear pass that dropping LB which he didn't have
.  
arcarsenal : 9/19/2017 12:52 am : link
The entire offense is a fucking mess. Eli did a few things that hurt us... there was one sack in particular where he was barely touched and just fell to the ground. The throw behind Engram that led to a turnover literally one play after the defense forced one.. held the ball too long on a couple other plays.

But I don't know how any QB in this league is going to succeed when they have no running game whatsoever, when they get poor pass protection.. when their receivers drop key balls.. it's an impossible situation.

Eli hung in there in the 2nd half and took some pretty serious hits. But he knows he can't do that all season - he'll never make it to the end.

There are just so many things wrong with this offense right now.. no one is blameless, but it's not fair to pin it all on Eli.
Or you could just listen to the coach say the QB made  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 12:52 am : link
a mistake. Or listen to Eli say it.

As for a soft zone - he would have had much more room to maneuver if that were the case.
That was a 4th down  
AcesUp : 9/19/2017 12:52 am : link
They should not have been going for in the first place. We're completely inept up front, that's a low percentage play for us. Take the points, it was a blessing.
RE: RE: RE: In that clip  
HomerJones45 : 9/19/2017 12:53 am : link
In comment 13605533 montanagiant said:
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In comment 13605516 jcn56 said:


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In comment 13605501 WillVAB said:


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All Engram has to do is slow down a step to make that catch in stride.




So in this parallel universe, QBs don't hit receivers in stride, they expect players to slow down and arrive at a point simultaneous to the ball?

Sounds interesting - nothing like football the way it's played everywhere else.

Yes that is called sitting in the soft spot of the Zone. This what Witten excels at. Now an argument that the ball should have been thrown elsewhere might be able to be made but would have to wait until the Coach's Tape replay is on Direct T.V's NFL pkg
Exactly. Not blaming the rookie but he kept going when he had a soft spot between and in back of the two defenders. Witten stops and has an easy completion. That's where Eli threw the ball. Argue if you wish that he should have gone elsewhere but saying he should have led Engram is talking out your ass without looking to see where the defenders were.
RE: RE: If you're throwing to Engram, there's no excuse - you hit him  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 12:53 am : link
In comment 13605539 montanagiant said:
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In comment 13605531 jcn56 said:


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in stride and he makes the catch. If he doesn't - it's on him.

Throwing it behind him - where there's literally no chance of him catching it - because there was a defender up top implies Eli shouldn't have been throwing to him in the first place.

It was a bad throw - both BM and Eli admitted as much in their post game pressers.

You can't on that play if you watch the replay. You have a LB dropping back completely in the spot that pass would be. There is no window there to lead him unless you have another 2 secs to let him clear pass that dropping LB which he didn't have


And then the complaint would be he holds the ball too long.

Fucking impossible situation for Eli
This is the replay Homer Jones linked  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 12:55 am : link
The play in question is around the 1:10 mark. If you actually watch this replay you will see the LB dropping back right to the spot you guys are claiming Eli should have thrown to. the only spots that are open are where Eli threw it or if he waited which was impossible due to the pass rush
1:10 - ( New Window )
RE: That was a 4th down  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/19/2017 12:55 am : link
In comment 13605544 AcesUp said:
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They should not have been going for in the first place. We're completely inept up front, that's a low percentage play for us. Take the points, it was a blessing.


I don't know what the fuck he was thinking there. The penalty was a blessing, as you said.
RE: .  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 12:56 am : link
In comment 13605542 arcarsenal said:
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The entire offense is a fucking mess. Eli did a few things that hurt us... there was one sack in particular where he was barely touched and just fell to the ground. The throw behind Engram that led to a turnover literally one play after the defense forced one.. held the ball too long on a couple other plays.

But I don't know how any QB in this league is going to succeed when they have no running game whatsoever, when they get poor pass protection.. when their receivers drop key balls.. it's an impossible situation.

Eli hung in there in the 2nd half and took some pretty serious hits. But he knows he can't do that all season - he'll never make it to the end.

There are just so many things wrong with this offense right now.. no one is blameless, but it's not fair to pin it all on Eli.


Save for a few wingnuts, nobody is running around suggesting this is all Eli's fault.

There are a lot of people running around and claiming that we can't expect Eli to perform at all because of the OL.

That's unfair and unrealistic. He left quite a few plays on the field today - coverage sacks where he held the ball too long, the INT, missed throws. He doesn't get a blank check to make these mistakes because of the OL - not at $20/M a year.

He's got to do better. That doesn't mean the OL doesn't have to improve, or the RBs don't have to play better, or that McAdoo's playcalling doesn't have to improve. All of these things have to happen for the O to shape up.

If we're going to sit here and pretend that Eli comes last on that list, and he's exonerated until we have everything else fixed, that's not reality. It doesn't work that way for anyone, let alone Eli.
And for those who might have some long term memory issues...  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 12:57 am : link
These complaints about Eli have been around for some time - his inconsistency dates back quite a bit. Nothing new for the 2016 or 2017 season.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 9/19/2017 1:00 am : link
In comment 13605559 jcn56 said:
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In comment 13605542 arcarsenal said:


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The entire offense is a fucking mess. Eli did a few things that hurt us... there was one sack in particular where he was barely touched and just fell to the ground. The throw behind Engram that led to a turnover literally one play after the defense forced one.. held the ball too long on a couple other plays.

But I don't know how any QB in this league is going to succeed when they have no running game whatsoever, when they get poor pass protection.. when their receivers drop key balls.. it's an impossible situation.

Eli hung in there in the 2nd half and took some pretty serious hits. But he knows he can't do that all season - he'll never make it to the end.

There are just so many things wrong with this offense right now.. no one is blameless, but it's not fair to pin it all on Eli.



Save for a few wingnuts, nobody is running around suggesting this is all Eli's fault.

There are a lot of people running around and claiming that we can't expect Eli to perform at all because of the OL.

That's unfair and unrealistic. He left quite a few plays on the field today - coverage sacks where he held the ball too long, the INT, missed throws. He doesn't get a blank check to make these mistakes because of the OL - not at $20/M a year.

He's got to do better. That doesn't mean the OL doesn't have to improve, or the RBs don't have to play better, or that McAdoo's playcalling doesn't have to improve. All of these things have to happen for the O to shape up.

If we're going to sit here and pretend that Eli comes last on that list, and he's exonerated until we have everything else fixed, that's not reality. It doesn't work that way for anyone, let alone Eli.


He's not blameless, I just don't know how any QB who isn't mobile is going to do much of anything in this situation.

He dropped that pass down the sideline right in Marshall's gut... Marshall has to catch that. That's a pivotal play. This offense isn't good enough to overcome mistakes like that.

I'd say a lot of QB's in this league make a few mistakes or bad plays in most given games - but good teams can make up for it. We don't look like a team that can overcome mistakes.
The idea that Eli couldn't hit Engram with a catchable pass  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/19/2017 1:01 am : link
or he would've somehow risked an interception makes no sense to me. It was just a poorly thrown pass. People saying Engram should've stopped there don't actually know if that's true unless they have access to the playbook or coach's instructions.
Works that way for Matt Ryan  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 1:02 am : link
They've spent years and countless picks/FA's to build the perfect situation for him.
That's the point though - he's making more mistakes  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 1:05 am : link
than the slim margin for error would allow.

Marshall's drop was huge. His INT was worse - the worst possible time, just after a huge momentum boost for the team, after handing Stafford his ass and giving the D the opportunity for a breather. He turned around and made an ill advised throw - if there's no room to throw it there, *don't*.

He's making mistakes an average QB would make. Given what we pay him, and what the rest of our O looks like - we can't win with an average QB. He has to do better, even if that sounds unfair.
RE: Works that way for Matt Ryan  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 1:06 am : link
In comment 13605574 WillVAB said:
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They've spent years and countless picks/FA's to build the perfect situation for him.


Matt Ryan is Usain Bolt compared to Eli at this point in his career. Do you have any idea what the lack of athleticism does for his OL?

Tonight, people lauded the Detroit OL - despite the fact that Stafford was running for his life half the night and slammed to the turf on several occasions. Why? Because when everyone was covered, Stafford could take advantage of the gaps and run upfield.

Short of a bomb threat, that's never going to happen with Eli, and that's part of the problem.
ICYMI - I don't think Eli was thinking about the soft zone:  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 1:09 am : link
Quote:


Q: What happened on your interception?

A: Canít afford it. The ball was a little behind Evan. So, weíve got to look at it and Iíve got it put it in front of him and give him a chance to run, or move on to my next progression.


To his credit, he also took the blame for the delay of game (which I thought was a blessing in disguise, but could have been painful elsewhere) and some other problems. For all the hand wringing people do on Eli's behalf, I think he'd be the first guy to tell you he needs to do better if this offense is going to improve.
RE: RE: Works that way for Matt Ryan  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 1:10 am : link
In comment 13605586 jcn56 said:
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In comment 13605574 WillVAB said:


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They've spent years and countless picks/FA's to build the perfect situation for him.



Matt Ryan is Usain Bolt compared to Eli at this point in his career. Do you have any idea what the lack of athleticism does for his OL?

Tonight, people lauded the Detroit OL - despite the fact that Stafford was running for his life half the night and slammed to the turf on several occasions. Why? Because when everyone was covered, Stafford could take advantage of the gaps and run upfield.

Short of a bomb threat, that's never going to happen with Eli, and that's part of the problem.


At this point in his career? Eli has never been a mobile QB. If you want the Giants to go the mobile QB route just say it. Don't mask your true feelings with absurd critiques of his play.
No, I made a realistic assessment - you want absurd  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 1:11 am : link
look at the bullshit excuse making you guys have been doing - then look at what Eli himself said.

Unless of course you think Eli is full of shit too. Which, might not be a stretch considering some of the stupidity on this thread.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/19/2017 1:19 am : link
It's pointless to even discuss Eli's salary at this point - we obviously paid for past production but were in a situation where he looked like he still had a handful of solid play left in him so it made sense to pay for the known quantity than the alternative - which would have been heavily criticized at the time, would have angered the fanbase, and may not have even been the right move depending on what we attempted to put in his place.

Eli has always kind of been volatile. Most of his career has been like this. He shows flashes of brilliance and has stretches where he's not phased by anything and then he makes throws that no one understands or loses the football in a big spot. We've had times where we've been able to overcome that and also times like this where we just can't. Eli basically is what he is. It's hard to expect him to play mistake-free football since he rarely has in his career.
RE: No, I made a realistic assessment - you want absurd  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 1:21 am : link
In comment 13605600 jcn56 said:
Quote:
look at the bullshit excuse making you guys have been doing - then look at what Eli himself said.

Unless of course you think Eli is full of shit too. Which, might not be a stretch considering some of the stupidity on this thread.


Eli always takes the blame in post game pressers. Now all of a sudden we're taking what he says at face value?
Got it - so the coach and Eli are lying  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 1:28 am : link
That makes sense.

arc - I don't disagree with you, but I think you're assuming this is the same old enigmatic Eli. I think things have worsened somewhat. Eli has been hearing footsteps worse than he has in the past, and it has exacerbated his problems.

Tonight was a microcosm of his career - he was good and bad all in the same night. A bad INT, nearly overthrew Engram in the endzone, held the ball way too long for a couple of coverage sacks, fell down on a phantom sack in one instance where the rusher barely got a hand on him, gets a delay of game penalty when he loses track of the clock. Bad.

Then, he comes out firing in the second half - makes a beautiful throw to Marshall (that's dropped), avoids the rush in a few instances and makes some nice throws. Drives the team downfield and should have scored if not for BJ's holding penalty. Good.

It's how he's always been - but OL play isn't what it used to be, and we're in a WCO now. He's got to give up quicker when there's nothing to be found, and not force throws into coverage. Take the short, high percentage throws. Dump the ball off when it's obvious nothing is open. Get rid of the ball quicker - and protection will be less of an issue.

It's the irresistible force and immovable object - he's not getting faster, and he's always had these flaws. The OL isn't getting any better, and they can't protect for very long. So one or the other - wait for the OL to improve, or get Eli to get rid of the ball faster. Which do you think is more likely?
.  
arcarsenal : 9/19/2017 1:59 am : link
Well, you said it yourself - the OL play isn't what it used to be. Eli isn't really the type of QB who can overcome that easily. I 100% agree that there are times where he's holding the ball too long - but if he's still in the pocket and no one is open, he doesn't have many options. He obviously doesn't want to take a grounding penalty.

The Seahawks OL is horrid - Wilson is just able to extend some plays and escape out of the pocket, but even still, their offense looks like trash. They could barely even score against the Packers who have a garbage defense.

I think for our offense to look like this - it's probably not a one or the other. I think it's several contributing factors - which we saw tonight.
jcn  
Go Terps : 9/19/2017 2:53 am : link
Who has been here on this board saying that paying anyone $20 million a year is nuts?

Did you watch Green Bay and Atlanta last night? How good was Rodgers? He's a better player than Eli, but even a guy as good as he is will look like shit if his line can't block.

I fully admit that I can't be fully objective when it comes to Eli; I love the guy and want him to retire a Giant. But when he quits you won't see me suggesting we should spend the same money at the position.

But he's here and he's getting older...and the front office fucked up big time spending so much money on the defense and leaving the offensive line to depend on the hope that all three draft picks and the FA retreads would hit.

No veteran QB likes getting hit. Better QBs than Eli have wilted under constant pass rush pressure to the point where those few downs where the protection holds up are still impacted by the generally poor line. As Eli aged there should have been a plan in place to focus on making the offensive line one of, if not the strongest, units on the team. The line needed to get better as he aged.

That clearly hasn't happened.

You can have Odell Beckham, Brandon Marshall, Evan Engram, and Sterling Shepard. They don't matter if the quarterback isn't consistently given the time to get them the football. Did you see the pockets Matt Ryan was getting on Sunday night? Eli hasn't seen a pocket like that in years.
RE: Good coaching  
TheMick7 : 9/19/2017 5:33 am : link
In comment 13605151 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He knows Eli can take it, and he's trying to keep the world from piling on the linemen.


A good coach,particularly a HC, adjusts his offense to his personnel. As an OC, he was forced to implement aspects of TC's offense that focused on Eli's strengths.As soon as he became HC,he decided Eli would be coached to fit his offense. Now,Eli said all the right things,did everything his HC asked him to do(Because he's Eli) but this offense does not focus on Eli's strengths but rather what the HC knows & feels comfortable calling. His offense doesn't work. It didn't last year when the team won in spite of it,not because of it. And please don't tell me it's the record that counts because if Reese had spent $200 million on the D when TC was here,we'd have had similar results last year w/TC as coach.Every time I listen to the HC,he doesn't seem to have any answers just the ability to deflect blame. A good coach never does that!
RE: RE: Good coaching  
micky : 9/19/2017 6:22 am : link
In comment 13605674 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
In comment 13605151 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He knows Eli can take it, and he's trying to keep the world from piling on the linemen.



A good coach,particularly a HC, adjusts his offense to his personnel. As an OC, he was forced to implement aspects of TC's offense that focused on Eli's strengths.As soon as he became HC,he decided Eli would be coached to fit his offense. Now,Eli said all the right things,did everything his HC asked him to do(Because he's Eli) but this offense does not focus on Eli's strengths but rather what the HC knows & feels comfortable calling. His offense doesn't work. It didn't last year when the team won in spite of it,not because of it. And please don't tell me it's the record that counts because if Reese had spent $200 million on the D when TC was here,we'd have had similar results last year w/TC as coach.Every time I listen to the HC,he doesn't seem to have any answers just the ability to deflect blame. A good coach never does that!



good post mick...he also should take blame. His offense doesn't work. get a oc in here..not in season after
RE: RE: Good coaching  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 7:28 am : link
In comment 13605674 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
In comment 13605151 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He knows Eli can take it, and he's trying to keep the world from piling on the linemen.



A good coach,particularly a HC, adjusts his offense to his personnel. As an OC, he was forced to implement aspects of TC's offense that focused on Eli's strengths.As soon as he became HC,he decided Eli would be coached to fit his offense. Now,Eli said all the right things,did everything his HC asked him to do(Because he's Eli) but this offense does not focus on Eli's strengths but rather what the HC knows & feels comfortable calling. His offense doesn't work. It didn't last year when the team won in spite of it,not because of it. And please don't tell me it's the record that counts because if Reese had spent $200 million on the D when TC was here,we'd have had similar results last year w/TC as coach.Every time I listen to the HC,he doesn't seem to have any answers just the ability to deflect blame. A good coach never does that!


You're a bad listener then, since his press conference starts by saying the Los was on him, and he's responsible for fixing it.

Even worse, before they stepped foot out there with TC as HC and BM as OC, TC made it clear it was all McAdoo's O, but revisionist history has BM running with TC concepts.

RE: RE: RE: Good coaching  
TheMick7 : 9/19/2017 7:38 am : link
In comment 13605745 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13605674 TheMick7 said:


Quote:


In comment 13605151 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He knows Eli can take it, and he's trying to keep the world from piling on the linemen.



A good coach,particularly a HC, adjusts his offense to his personnel. As an OC, he was forced to implement aspects of TC's offense that focused on Eli's strengths.As soon as he became HC,he decided Eli would be coached to fit his offense. Now,Eli said all the right things,did everything his HC asked him to do(Because he's Eli) but this offense does not focus on Eli's strengths but rather what the HC knows & feels comfortable calling. His offense doesn't work. It didn't last year when the team won in spite of it,not because of it. And please don't tell me it's the record that counts because if Reese had spent $200 million on the D when TC was here,we'd have had similar results last year w/TC as coach.Every time I listen to the HC,he doesn't seem to have any answers just the ability to deflect blame. A good coach never does that!



You're a bad listener then, since his press conference starts by saying the Los was on him, and he's responsible for fixing it.

Even worse, before they stepped foot out there with TC as HC and BM as OC, TC made it clear it was all McAdoo's O, but revisionist history has BM running with TC concepts.


I heard the HC's entire Press Conference. He has started the last 2 by saying it's on him & then goes on to say why it isn't,throwing players,especially Eli,under the bus. TC,like Eli,is a classy coach who didn't want the new OC to appear that he wasn't calling his entire offense. But,all you need to do is watch the 2015 games as opposed to 2016/17 to see that aspects of TC's offense were being implemented while as soon as he was gone,they were scrubbed!
McAdoo coaches as if Flowers is a HOFer...  
ny_thick_n_thin : 9/19/2017 11:00 am : link
...they should chip off of his side EVERY play, and actually run some play action off of that with Ellison or Engrahm.

But it won't happen.

Shotgun draw everyone!
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