What we saw today was a QB with an astounding lack of offensive support who more often than not put his teammates in a position to succeed. Without expecting the unreasonable, such as Eli morphing into Vick when the pocket breaks down, I'm not sure there is much more that Eli or any QB could do.
Yes, Eli threw an interception. Without the benefit of instant replay I'll assume it was a poor throw (perhaps after review it will appear to have been more catchable). Welcome to football- every QB throws interceptions (see Brady, Rodgers, etc al). To expect every pass attempt to be complete and perfectly placed is to expect the unreasonable.
I'm sure most can agree that Eli was victimized by drops of both the egregious variety (Marshall x2, OBJ) and those due in large part to key defensive plays (Engram). Without these drops you're looking at a very accurate and efficient night with many of these throws having been pushed down the field. I'll add that it's presumptuous to assign guilt to Eli for the failure of fourth down conversions without knowing A) if Eli had time and, B) if receivers were open deeper down the field. I'm not quite sure what certain posters or fans might be referring to if you argue that Eli left plays on the field.
Of course, the elephant in the room remains the OL which not only tangibly hampers the outcome of each play, be it through pressure/sacks/no running game, but also distorts the internal clock of our quarterback. I don't know that any quarterback can survive a constant pass rush onslaught without having it influence their comfort within the pocket (case in point, Brady week 1). Five sacks and however many additional pressures? To expect any human being to not rush throws after that level of pressure is again, to expect the unreasonable. Each game and each pass are also not conducted in a vacuum- the psychological and physical effects reverberate longer. I'd argue that the hit Eli suffered in Washington last year spent his confidence in that offensive line and the same might soon be said for this protection scheme.
It's frustrating to read posters acknowledge that the offensive line is a sieve but then also criticize Eli with the typical refrain of, "he's part of the problem." I really do not know how one can cast aspersions to the true talent level or performance of a quarterback when playing under such dire circumstances. This isn't the chicken or the egg- if a play is broken before it starts then it's disingenuous to subsequently penalize a QB thereafter for not making salad out of shit. For example, Aaron Rodgers didn't forget play football this past Sunday- he was simply overwhelmed by a defense that never allowed him to actually operate. Is it a referendum on his play? Hardly. If a quarterback is not given time to progress through reads and throw then I struggle to grasp how they can be considered part of the problem.
What we can deduce from Eli's play behind such a porous line is that he remains as tough as ever (ex. hit taken during Shepard pass), he keeps his eyes downfield while avoiding the rush (ex. Engram), and he does an admirable job sidestepping defenders when possible.
Finally, the arm talent clearly remains. The incompletion to Engram near the end zone was a beautiful pass as were a pair of incompletions to Marshall. This is not Peyton on a swan song, rather Eli is still dishing passes that a large portion of NFL quarterbacks would struggle to make.
It's frustrating to read posters admonishing Eli for having a "terrible" first half (7-9 passing with a TD is terrible in some alternate universe) or for being part of the problem or for being "limited." I simply ask, what plays were there for the making that Eli missed? Please, be specific. Mentioning the poor results of a play or even a game does not suffice as evidence without citing specific instances or alternative options that Eli disregarded. Which open receivers did Eli miss or poor passes did he make within a reasonable context?
Tonight was a microcosm in effect for many games dating back to last season. I find it incredibly difficult to assign blame to he quarterback when he is not given a fair opportunity to succeed. Assigning guilt by association is simply lazy analysis. I won't begin to pretend that Eli is in the same category as Rodgers or that he never throws an errant pass but to lay blame at his feet because he cannot overcome a complete lack of support is unreasonable, in my opinion.
If it was behind him, how was he supposed to use two hands to catch it, exactly?
He was running a drag across the middle with all his momentum going away from where the ball was thrown. That's all Eli
That QB that was out there getting his ass kicked in the second half absolutely was not scared nor playing that way. It didn't matter in the end, but he hung in there and took a beating while still trying to make plays.
He deserves criticism for the INT, but we can shelve the "scared" or happy feet stuff for a week.
Fanboys are the worst..
Considering he was either getting the crap knocked out of him, or about to, or running for his life, his play was actually quite inspiring!
Do you also have a difficult time assigning blame to a big money pitcher who gets bombed every other appearance? Or that big FA bat acquired in the offseason who spends the next two years hitting .230?
Eli is paid big bucks. In case you haven't noticed. A big chunk of the cap. He paid this because he leads the offense. He touches the ball every down.
Each "errant pass" gives the opposition a chance to turn the ball over and out points on the board. This happens too often as evidenced by his propensity for INT over his career. Each time he gets happy feet, throws an inaccurate pass into the ground, over throws a screen, or throws a slant behind the WR , or takes a delay of game at the goal line, it's his fault. No one else.
His job is to manage the game and move the ball. He isn't doing that and deserves blame.
You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...
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Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.
You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...
Allow me to school you, son. Consistent, as in occurring often, repeatedly, regularly, as in the last 18 games filled with head-shaking, dunderheaded plays, ints, rushed plays, turnovers, missed receivers, etc. Learn how to read context clues. What made you think I was referring to consistently bad play last night, I don't know, especially because I was sure to point out Eli was not entirely at fault.
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In comment 13605668 NorwoodWideRight said:
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Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.
You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...
Allow me to school you, son. Consistent, as in occurring often, repeatedly, regularly, as in the last 18 games filled with head-shaking, dunderheaded plays, ints, rushed plays, turnovers, missed receivers, etc. Learn how to read context clues. What made you think I was referring to consistently bad play last night, I don't know, especially because I was sure to point out Eli was not entirely at fault.
Would you care to list these "head shaking, dunderhead plays"...?
And also make sure you list all the other QB's with no running game and no time to throw who would be "consistently good" in said 18 games?
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In comment 13605669 JCin332 said:
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In comment 13605668 NorwoodWideRight said:
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Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.
You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...
Allow me to school you, son. Consistent, as in occurring often, repeatedly, regularly, as in the last 18 games filled with head-shaking, dunderheaded plays, ints, rushed plays, turnovers, missed receivers, etc. Learn how to read context clues. What made you think I was referring to consistently bad play last night, I don't know, especially because I was sure to point out Eli was not entirely at fault.
Would you care to list these "head shaking, dunderhead plays"...?
And also make sure you list all the other QB's with no running game and no time to throw who would be "consistently good" in said 18 games?
Go to your DVR and rewatch last season. Pay special attention to all the games where, even when there is zero pressure, Eli is rushing throws, throwing behind or overthrowing receivers it throwing the ball in the dirt. For you to come here after this loss and exclaim shock that people would dare have the audacity to say Eli is part of the problem shows what a blind, homerish, apologetic fan you are.
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In comment 13605675 NorwoodWideRight said:
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In comment 13605669 JCin332 said:
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In comment 13605668 NorwoodWideRight said:
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Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.
You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...
Allow me to school you, son. Consistent, as in occurring often, repeatedly, regularly, as in the last 18 games filled with head-shaking, dunderheaded plays, ints, rushed plays, turnovers, missed receivers, etc. Learn how to read context clues. What made you think I was referring to consistently bad play last night, I don't know, especially because I was sure to point out Eli was not entirely at fault.
Would you care to list these "head shaking, dunderhead plays"...?
And also make sure you list all the other QB's with no running game and no time to throw who would be "consistently good" in said 18 games?
Go to your DVR and rewatch last season. Pay special attention to all the games where, even when there is zero pressure, Eli is rushing throws, throwing behind or overthrowing receivers it throwing the ball in the dirt. For you to come here after this loss and exclaim shock that people would dare have the audacity to say Eli is part of the problem shows what a blind, homerish, apologetic fan you are.
Listen buddy time for you to get to bed and sleep it off..
Adios have to get to work...
He throws bad ints, his team is not scoring tds or converting first downs. He continues to take delay of game penalties (probably worked out for the better at the time, but inexcusable how many delay of games Eli has taken over the years).
It is abominable the front office and coach did not set him up well. I don't think suiting up another qb is the answer. But his play is not good. Giants have a few bigger problems on offense: a lack of creativity playcalling, no offensive line, and terrible backs. But he is not helping.
horrendous throws at times, etc
stop excusing him, he's not the total blame, but he is PART of the problem. Stop excusing this fuck
horrendous throws at times, etc
stop excusing him, he's not the total blame, but he is PART of the problem. Stop excusing this fuck
rich=touched
horrendous throws at times, etc
stop excusing him, he's not the total blame, but he is PART of the problem. Stop excusing this fuck
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you referring to Eli as "this fuck?"
Wow. Time to step back a bit. He's not playing great ball, but calling him "this fuck" is going a bit too far, no?
Wow
Wow
He tried to make a one handed catch because the ball was way behind him. I guess people expected him to defy the law of motion.
Eli was not the total problem, just a part of it. The phantom tackle after eluding the rush.. how many just short of the 1st down line passes were there last night - a continuing problem (part receiver's fault too.)
Cannot fault him for Marshall dropping at least two passes and Engram's dropped TD pass (a TE has to hold that ball.)
The offensive line sucks and Eli not making plays when he can, makes it worse.
Oh, and Paul Perkins is terrible too.
More generally, we've seen Eli thrive under really bad circumstances. So I don't like blaming the OL for when Eli struggles - he's succeeded under awful OL's. I always point to 2011 - the OL was awful and Eli was great. But his skill players made plays for him. That wasn't the case last year against the Packers or last night. It's frustrating because Eli played well enough to make this a competitive game despite the OL.
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Eli held the ball too long on one of the sacks, but other than that, I don't think he played that poorly. Marshall dropped a perfectly thrown ball, and another that was a little high but very catchable. He made a nice throw into the end zone to Shepard, but the Lions DB's made a nice play to break it up.
The problem is the line. It has to be fixed, or we are in for a long season.
That is the first time I've seen the replay, and you're right, it wasn't that bad a throw. Engram has to make a better play on that ball. Thanks for posting Cap'n.
Pretty sure Engram admitted to "being in the wrong spot"
One thing that is possible, given that it looked like zone coverage, is that Engram was supposed to sit in that space as opposed to running across it. I remember Manningham used to do that shit all the time.
Regardless, it's a shitty play by both guys.
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What a horrendous fucking throw. My god how the hell can we go on with this guy running our offense [/s]
One thing that is possible, given that it looked like zone coverage, is that Engram was supposed to sit in that space as opposed to running across it. I remember Manningham used to do that shit all the time.
Regardless, it's a shitty play by both guys. Link - ( New Window )
Terps watch the alternate link above and see if you make the same statement.
Last season the Giants won 11 games. Am I also to deduce that Eli and the Giants performed exceptionally well? Perhaps a bit more context would help me understand that those results were not built off of a sound foundation of sustainable success.
You can be right for the wrong reasons and wrong for the right reasons- Sam Hinkie