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Not sure how Eli is part of these problems...

BurberryManning : 9/19/2017 12:27 am
What we saw today was a QB with an astounding lack of offensive support who more often than not put his teammates in a position to succeed. Without expecting the unreasonable, such as Eli morphing into Vick when the pocket breaks down, I'm not sure there is much more that Eli or any QB could do.

Yes, Eli threw an interception. Without the benefit of instant replay I'll assume it was a poor throw (perhaps after review it will appear to have been more catchable). Welcome to football- every QB throws interceptions (see Brady, Rodgers, etc al). To expect every pass attempt to be complete and perfectly placed is to expect the unreasonable.

I'm sure most can agree that Eli was victimized by drops of both the egregious variety (Marshall x2, OBJ) and those due in large part to key defensive plays (Engram). Without these drops you're looking at a very accurate and efficient night with many of these throws having been pushed down the field. I'll add that it's presumptuous to assign guilt to Eli for the failure of fourth down conversions without knowing A) if Eli had time and, B) if receivers were open deeper down the field. I'm not quite sure what certain posters or fans might be referring to if you argue that Eli left plays on the field.

Of course, the elephant in the room remains the OL which not only tangibly hampers the outcome of each play, be it through pressure/sacks/no running game, but also distorts the internal clock of our quarterback. I don't know that any quarterback can survive a constant pass rush onslaught without having it influence their comfort within the pocket (case in point, Brady week 1). Five sacks and however many additional pressures? To expect any human being to not rush throws after that level of pressure is again, to expect the unreasonable. Each game and each pass are also not conducted in a vacuum- the psychological and physical effects reverberate longer. I'd argue that the hit Eli suffered in Washington last year spent his confidence in that offensive line and the same might soon be said for this protection scheme.

It's frustrating to read posters acknowledge that the offensive line is a sieve but then also criticize Eli with the typical refrain of, "he's part of the problem." I really do not know how one can cast aspersions to the true talent level or performance of a quarterback when playing under such dire circumstances. This isn't the chicken or the egg- if a play is broken before it starts then it's disingenuous to subsequently penalize a QB thereafter for not making salad out of shit. For example, Aaron Rodgers didn't forget play football this past Sunday- he was simply overwhelmed by a defense that never allowed him to actually operate. Is it a referendum on his play? Hardly. If a quarterback is not given time to progress through reads and throw then I struggle to grasp how they can be considered part of the problem.

What we can deduce from Eli's play behind such a porous line is that he remains as tough as ever (ex. hit taken during Shepard pass), he keeps his eyes downfield while avoiding the rush (ex. Engram), and he does an admirable job sidestepping defenders when possible.

Finally, the arm talent clearly remains. The incompletion to Engram near the end zone was a beautiful pass as were a pair of incompletions to Marshall. This is not Peyton on a swan song, rather Eli is still dishing passes that a large portion of NFL quarterbacks would struggle to make.

It's frustrating to read posters admonishing Eli for having a "terrible" first half (7-9 passing with a TD is terrible in some alternate universe) or for being part of the problem or for being "limited." I simply ask, what plays were there for the making that Eli missed? Please, be specific. Mentioning the poor results of a play or even a game does not suffice as evidence without citing specific instances or alternative options that Eli disregarded. Which open receivers did Eli miss or poor passes did he make within a reasonable context?

Tonight was a microcosm in effect for many games dating back to last season. I find it incredibly difficult to assign blame to he quarterback when he is not given a fair opportunity to succeed. Assigning guilt by association is simply lazy analysis. I won't begin to pretend that Eli is in the same category as Rodgers or that he never throws an errant pass but to lay blame at his feet because he cannot overcome a complete lack of support is unreasonable, in my opinion.
he looked scared  
Jints in Carolina : 9/19/2017 12:29 am : link
His INT was inexcusable.
I wish Engram  
BlackLight : 9/19/2017 12:30 am : link
had made more of a two-handed effort to catch that pass - might have prevented the INT. It wasn't THAT far behind him.
Elis Int  
Vanzetti : 9/19/2017 12:30 am : link
Engram was trying to showboat with the one handed catch. Throw was behind him but he could have caught it with two hands
We can't even  
Reb8thVA : 9/19/2017 12:31 am : link
Run the ball to take some of the pressure off him
did Engram pull a Randle and run his route wrong?  
SHO'NUFF : 9/19/2017 12:32 am : link
or did Eli F up?
RE: Elis Int  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 12:32 am : link
In comment 13605475 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Engram was trying to showboat with the one handed catch. Throw was behind him but he could have caught it with two hands


If it was behind him, how was he supposed to use two hands to catch it, exactly?
RE: Elis Int  
ajr2456 : 9/19/2017 12:33 am : link
In comment 13605475 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Engram was trying to showboat with the one handed catch. Throw was behind him but he could have caught it with two hands


He was running a drag across the middle with all his momentum going away from where the ball was thrown. That's all Eli
The INT swung the momentum back to Detroit  
KentGraham : 9/19/2017 12:34 am : link
And then near the end of the half he gave up when he felt pressure that he could have easily escaped. He's watching his back before he's looking downfield and it's just making a bad situation even worse. I love Eli, but at the end of the half it looked like he didn't want to be out there...
Arm strength is there?  
ajr2456 : 9/19/2017 12:34 am : link
That throw to Adams was under thrown. None of the slant routes guys were crashing in stride
There was a guy once  
Modus Operandi : 9/19/2017 12:34 am : link
Who won the SB with one of the worst OL in football. Not surprisingly, his team was also dead last in the league in rushing. That QBs was also Eli, but he hasn't been that guy for several years now.

RE: he looked scared  
Devon : 9/19/2017 12:36 am : link
In comment 13605466 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
His INT was inexcusable.

That QB that was out there getting his ass kicked in the second half absolutely was not scared nor playing that way. It didn't matter in the end, but he hung in there and took a beating while still trying to make plays.

He deserves criticism for the INT, but we can shelve the "scared" or happy feet stuff for a week.
Some of these threads...Wow.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/19/2017 12:36 am : link
I don't even think he's the biggest problem. But to state he's not even one of the problems?

Fanboys are the worst..
All things considered,  
TC : 9/19/2017 12:39 am : link
I think Eli played very well tonight. And I'm not blind to his limitations.

Considering he was either getting the crap knocked out of him, or about to, or running for his life, his play was actually quite inspiring!
Interesting thought..  
Modus Operandi : 9/19/2017 12:46 am : link
Quote:
Tonight was a microcosm in effect for many games dating back to last season. I find it incredibly difficult to assign blame to he quarterback when he is not given a fair opportunity to succeed. Assigning guilt by association is simply lazy analysis. I won't begin to pretend that Eli is in the same category as Rodgers or that he never throws an errant pass but to lay blame at his feet because he cannot overcome a complete lack of support is unreasonable, in my opinion.


Do you also have a difficult time assigning blame to a big money pitcher who gets bombed every other appearance? Or that big FA bat acquired in the offseason who spends the next two years hitting .230?

Eli is paid big bucks. In case you haven't noticed. A big chunk of the cap. He paid this because he leads the offense. He touches the ball every down.

Each "errant pass" gives the opposition a chance to turn the ball over and out points on the board. This happens too often as evidenced by his propensity for INT over his career. Each time he gets happy feet, throws an inaccurate pass into the ground, over throws a screen, or throws a slant behind the WR , or takes a delay of game at the goal line, it's his fault. No one else.

His job is to manage the game and move the ball. He isn't doing that and deserves blame.
The blind people who give Eli a free pass  
NorwoodWideRight : 9/19/2017 5:04 am : link
Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.
RE: The blind people who give Eli a free pass  
JCin332 : 9/19/2017 5:13 am : link
In comment 13605668 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.


You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...
The delay of game  
Les in TO : 9/19/2017 5:32 am : link
At the goal line would maybe excusable for a rookie not a 14 year veteran. He is slowing down
RE: RE: The blind people who give Eli a free pass  
NorwoodWideRight : 9/19/2017 5:34 am : link
In comment 13605669 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 13605668 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:


Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.



You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...


Allow me to school you, son. Consistent, as in occurring often, repeatedly, regularly, as in the last 18 games filled with head-shaking, dunderheaded plays, ints, rushed plays, turnovers, missed receivers, etc. Learn how to read context clues. What made you think I was referring to consistently bad play last night, I don't know, especially because I was sure to point out Eli was not entirely at fault.
RE: RE: RE: The blind people who give Eli a free pass  
JCin332 : 9/19/2017 5:43 am : link
In comment 13605675 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
In comment 13605669 JCin332 said:


Quote:


In comment 13605668 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:


Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.



You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...



Allow me to school you, son. Consistent, as in occurring often, repeatedly, regularly, as in the last 18 games filled with head-shaking, dunderheaded plays, ints, rushed plays, turnovers, missed receivers, etc. Learn how to read context clues. What made you think I was referring to consistently bad play last night, I don't know, especially because I was sure to point out Eli was not entirely at fault.


Would you care to list these "head shaking, dunderhead plays"...?

And also make sure you list all the other QB's with no running game and no time to throw who would be "consistently good" in said 18 games?
RE: RE: RE: RE: The blind people who give Eli a free pass  
NorwoodWideRight : 9/19/2017 5:52 am : link
In comment 13605678 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 13605675 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:


In comment 13605669 JCin332 said:


Quote:


In comment 13605668 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:


Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.



You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...



Allow me to school you, son. Consistent, as in occurring often, repeatedly, regularly, as in the last 18 games filled with head-shaking, dunderheaded plays, ints, rushed plays, turnovers, missed receivers, etc. Learn how to read context clues. What made you think I was referring to consistently bad play last night, I don't know, especially because I was sure to point out Eli was not entirely at fault.



Would you care to list these "head shaking, dunderhead plays"...?

And also make sure you list all the other QB's with no running game and no time to throw who would be "consistently good" in said 18 games?


Go to your DVR and rewatch last season. Pay special attention to all the games where, even when there is zero pressure, Eli is rushing throws, throwing behind or overthrowing receivers it throwing the ball in the dirt. For you to come here after this loss and exclaim shock that people would dare have the audacity to say Eli is part of the problem shows what a blind, homerish, apologetic fan you are.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The blind people who give Eli a free pass  
JCin332 : 9/19/2017 5:55 am : link
In comment 13605681 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
In comment 13605678 JCin332 said:


Quote:


In comment 13605675 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:


In comment 13605669 JCin332 said:


Quote:


In comment 13605668 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:


Or shift all the blame astound me. Eli is not wholly to blame for this crappy offense, but he is, without a doubt, part of the problem. And, like it's been said, you don't pay a guy this much money to consistently be this bad.



You don't know very much about football if you watched that game last night and concluded he was "consistently bad"...



Allow me to school you, son. Consistent, as in occurring often, repeatedly, regularly, as in the last 18 games filled with head-shaking, dunderheaded plays, ints, rushed plays, turnovers, missed receivers, etc. Learn how to read context clues. What made you think I was referring to consistently bad play last night, I don't know, especially because I was sure to point out Eli was not entirely at fault.



Would you care to list these "head shaking, dunderhead plays"...?

And also make sure you list all the other QB's with no running game and no time to throw who would be "consistently good" in said 18 games?



Go to your DVR and rewatch last season. Pay special attention to all the games where, even when there is zero pressure, Eli is rushing throws, throwing behind or overthrowing receivers it throwing the ball in the dirt. For you to come here after this loss and exclaim shock that people would dare have the audacity to say Eli is part of the problem shows what a blind, homerish, apologetic fan you are.


Listen buddy time for you to get to bed and sleep it off..

Adios have to get to work...
A wrongheaded post  
hassan : 9/19/2017 6:06 am : link
his completion percentage is great. Because he is now risk averse and is not making plays downfield. Even when he had a pocket he did not go hit receivers and is gunshy.

He throws bad ints, his team is not scoring tds or converting first downs. He continues to take delay of game penalties (probably worked out for the better at the time, but inexcusable how many delay of games Eli has taken over the years).

It is abominable the front office and coach did not set him up well. I don't think suiting up another qb is the answer. But his play is not good. Giants have a few bigger problems on offense: a lack of creativity playcalling, no offensive line, and terrible backs. But he is not helping.





umm holding onto the ball  
micky : 9/19/2017 6:10 am : link
falling down when lightly rich ((look on replays),
horrendous throws at times, etc

stop excusing him, he's not the total blame, but he is PART of the problem. Stop excusing this fuck
RE: umm holding onto the ball  
micky : 9/19/2017 6:11 am : link
In comment 13605684 micky said:
Quote:
falling down when lightly rich ((look on replays),
horrendous throws at times, etc

stop excusing him, he's not the total blame, but he is PART of the problem. Stop excusing this fuck


rich=touched
RE: umm holding onto the ball  
Giants_ROK : 9/19/2017 6:23 am : link
In comment 13605684 micky said:
Quote:
falling down when lightly rich ((look on replays),
horrendous throws at times, etc

stop excusing him, he's not the total blame, but he is PART of the problem. Stop excusing this fuck


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are you referring to Eli as "this fuck?"

Wow. Time to step back a bit. He's not playing great ball, but calling him "this fuck" is going a bit too far, no?
Engram was running a crossing route at near full speed  
jlukes : 9/19/2017 6:23 am : link
And people are expecting him to be somehow stop and adjust his body to reach behind him and make a catch?

Wow
He didn't hang on to the ball too long on one of the sacks?  
jeff57 : 9/19/2017 6:31 am : link
The problem is that a QB like him, who is even more immobile now, needs at least an adequate pass blocking line. They don't have one. The combination is deadly.
RE: Engram was running a crossing route at near full speed  
jeff57 : 9/19/2017 6:33 am : link
In comment 13605688 jlukes said:
Quote:
And people are expecting him to be somehow stop and adjust his body to reach behind him and make a catch?

Wow


He tried to make a one handed catch because the ball was way behind him. I guess people expected him to defy the law of motion.
The INT after the fumble recovery  
section125 : 9/19/2017 7:57 am : link
was a game changer/killer. Just inexcusable. Wide open receiver and the pass thrown well behind.

Eli was not the total problem, just a part of it. The phantom tackle after eluding the rush.. how many just short of the 1st down line passes were there last night - a continuing problem (part receiver's fault too.)

Cannot fault him for Marshall dropping at least two passes and Engram's dropped TD pass (a TE has to hold that ball.)

The offensive line sucks and Eli not making plays when he can, makes it worse.

Oh, and Paul Perkins is terrible too.
I always enjoy your posts, BM.  
BrettNYG10 : 9/19/2017 9:41 am : link
I thought Eli was bad in week one. But he looked good last night. He was victimized by his skill players this week. The Marshall drop was huge and was a perfect throw. The Engram drop towards the end of the game would have been a great catch - but he needs to make those plays.

More generally, we've seen Eli thrive under really bad circumstances. So I don't like blaming the OL for when Eli struggles - he's succeeded under awful OL's. I always point to 2011 - the OL was awful and Eli was great. But his skill players made plays for him. That wasn't the case last year against the Packers or last night. It's frustrating because Eli played well enough to make this a competitive game despite the OL.
Engram interception  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 9/19/2017 2:49 pm : link
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills hearing you guys talk about that throw. Was the throw perfect? No, it was right over his back shoulder instead of his front shoulder. You want that throw probably 18-24" further forward. Could Engram have made a better play on it than flapping his hand out uselessly? Absolutely.




Video - ( New Window )
The INT was a terrible throw,  
Section331 : 9/19/2017 2:58 pm : link
high and behind Engram. That was a killer, since the D had just created a turnover of their own.

Eli held the ball too long on one of the sacks, but other than that, I don't think he played that poorly. Marshall dropped a perfectly thrown ball, and another that was a little high but very catchable. He made a nice throw into the end zone to Shepard, but the Lions DB's made a nice play to break it up.

The problem is the line. It has to be fixed, or we are in for a long season.
RE: Engram interception  
Section331 : 9/19/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13607040 Cap'n Bluebeard said:
Quote:
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills hearing you guys talk about that throw. Was the throw perfect? No, it was right over his back shoulder instead of his front shoulder. You want that throw probably 18-24" further forward. Could Engram have made a better play on it than flapping his hand out uselessly? Absolutely.


That is the first time I've seen the replay, and you're right, it wasn't that bad a throw. Engram has to make a better play on that ball. Thanks for posting Cap'n.

Presented without commentary.  
Britt in VA : 9/19/2017 3:07 pm : link


The last still is the ball hitting Engram's hand.  
Britt in VA : 9/19/2017 3:08 pm : link
That's the only commentary I'll provide.
RE: he looked scared  
BlueHurricane : 9/19/2017 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13605466 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
His INT was inexcusable.


Pretty sure Engram admitted to "being in the wrong spot"
Here's the video of the pick  
Go Terps : 9/19/2017 3:12 pm : link
It's a bad throw, AND Engram has to do more to get both hands on it.

One thing that is possible, given that it looked like zone coverage, is that Engram was supposed to sit in that space as opposed to running across it. I remember Manningham used to do that shit all the time.

Regardless, it's a shitty play by both guys.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: The last still is the ball hitting Engram's hand.  
BlueHurricane : 9/19/2017 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13607087 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
That's the only commentary I'll provide.


What a horrendous fucking throw. My god how the hell can we go on with this guy running our offense [/s]
RE: Here's the video of the pick  
BlueHurricane : 9/19/2017 3:13 pm : link
In comment 13607100 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's a bad throw, AND Engram has to do more to get both hands on it.

One thing that is possible, given that it looked like zone coverage, is that Engram was supposed to sit in that space as opposed to running across it. I remember Manningham used to do that shit all the time.

Regardless, it's a shitty play by both guys. Link - ( New Window )


Terps watch the alternate link above and see if you make the same statement.
13 total points in 2 games  
AnnapolisMike : 9/19/2017 3:17 pm : link
Eli IS part of the problem. Maybe his skillset no longer matches what the Giants are trying to do. But Eli has got to raise his game.
RE: 13 total points in 2 games  
BurberryManning : 9/19/2017 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13607122 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
Eli IS part of the problem. Maybe his skillset no longer matches what the Giants are trying to do. But Eli has got to raise his game.
Judging the results by not analyzing the process is foolish.

Last season the Giants won 11 games. Am I also to deduce that Eli and the Giants performed exceptionally well? Perhaps a bit more context would help me understand that those results were not built off of a sound foundation of sustainable success.

You can be right for the wrong reasons and wrong for the right reasons- Sam Hinkie
Take off the ride colored glasses.  
joe48 : 9/19/2017 4:18 pm : link
Of course he is but no one is helping him either.
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