I understand his limitations, but he was easily better at OT than anyone else we've put there this season. I'm fine letting him play LT and trying Flowers at RT, but I'm also ok if we keep him at RT. Our pass pro was significantly better once he came in.
Put Ellison next to Flowers on an almost full time basis - it'll make it harder to get someone open, but at least it'll cut down on the number of negative plays and spare Eli some of the beating.
I'd put Pugh at LT and try Flowers at RT in practice to see how it goes. Unfortunately though, those are our only two options at OT, so one has to play LT.
Flowers needs to be benched. But I would also prefer to have Pugh inside to help against Cox next week.
I'd put Flowers on the bench.
They drafted Flowers, and expected Beatty to start at LT. Flowers was going to start at RT and eventually move to LT. They moved Pugh to LG. They didn't want to switch everything again.
I thought they just felt LG would be Pugh's best position, which it arguably is. Some (including Sy IIRC) have said he's played OG at a pro-bowl level, at least when healthy.
Problem is the RT replacements have been sub-par.
I'm not saying he won't be better than Flowers. I'm just saying he was a big disappointment at LT and there was a reason that he was moved off that position.
That said, as the "leader" of this dumpster fire, put him him there and see if he steps up. What do we have to lose?
I'm not saying he won't be better than Flowers. I'm just saying he was a big disappointment at LT and there was a reason that he was moved off that position.
That said, as the "leader" of this dumpster fire, put him him there and see if he steps up. What do we have to lose?
Wait - was he @ RT in that game? Either way the point is the same. He got moved off tackle because he got beat too much.
I'm not saying he won't be better than Flowers. I'm just saying he was a big disappointment at LT and there was a reason that he was moved off that position.
That said, as the "leader" of this dumpster fire, put him him there and see if he steps up. What do we have to lose?
Forgive me, I don't remember that. As far as I know Pugh has only played LT a couple times...I think it was Beatty you are thinking about..
I'm not saying he won't be better than Flowers. I'm just saying he was a big disappointment at LT and there was a reason that he was moved off that position.
That said, as the "leader" of this dumpster fire, put him him there and see if he steps up. What do we have to lose?
Most of us have not forgotten anything. Its not about putting Pugh out there because he's a great tackle, he's simply better than what we have there now.
I think they were worried early on but he seemed to handle things well and the line got better later in the game. Aftet getting abused for almost 3 quarters. I cant tell with out rewatching but it felt like once he settled in they went back to more normal (not compensating for pugh) protections.
I don't what you do about RT. Continue with Hart or try Flowers, Fluker or Jerry. Best case could be Jerry to RT so Fluker, Flowers, Hart or Jones play RG, LG.
Lots of moving chess pieces (all pawns) and all won't work out.
Sure wish they had explored more versatility in trading camp.
I dont think he should be benched and he still is probably our 3rd best lineman.
The issue is not just talent but execution and if we start move players all over the place the execution will take a step back.
IMO here are the options for next weeks OL:
Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jones, Fluker
or
Flowers, Jones, Richburg, Fluker, Pugh
Or
Pugh, Flowers, Richburg, Jones, Fluker
Bottom line for me: John Jerry is a bench player and cannot be considered a RG. Bobby Hart is average when healthy and bad when playing on a bad ankle.
We need to see if we can find improvement in production with Fluker in the lineup.
Maybe a Line of Pugh, Jones, Richburg, Fluker, Flowers is the best option. A power running right side with an athletic left side.
Either way, something has to be done.
And best LG. And best RT. Pugh gets shit in way too much around here. He's been a very good player for this team when he's healthy, which is the only thing I can see people getting on him about. He's dinged up a lot. But Pugh has been moved around a billion times when needed and he goes out and does a solid job anywhere they put him.
Quote:
Even at RT McAdoo said they felt they needed to give him help early on. He did say Pugh played well, so I can see him staying at ORT, but moving Flowers means admitting they made a mistake, and I don't see that happening this year. Every criticism of the Oline is deflected. Why is this? Who is McAdoo protecting?
I think they were worried early on but he seemed to handle things well and the line got better later in the game. Aftet getting abused for almost 3 quarters. I cant tell with out rewatching but it felt like once he settled in they went back to more normal (not compensating for pugh) protections.
It is not going to happen. They don't have the same faith in Pugh or the balls to show up the GM.
Eli being able to see his impending doom doesn't improve the situation much. People who know personnel better than I do think Flowers' best position is at guard. I think flipping Pugh and Flowers is the least disruptive thing we can do for Flowers. He needs to be part of the lineup or we are screwed. Our 6th and 7th guys shouldn't be starting.
This worked very well last night too.
He needs to go to LT tomorrow. Oh, and pay the man. Could you imagine the line without him?
And thats why the coaches should be in trouble. They made a calculated decision that Flowers could improve, which means they could leave Pugh at guard. They were wrong. They likely knew Pugh was better at LT than Flowers, but hoped the combination would be stronger if they could make Flowers better.
He needs to go to LT tomorrow. Oh, and pay the man. Could you imagine the line without him?
Ok.....so he goes to LT. Where are you moving Flowers? RG, RT, or bench?
Personally, I'd go Pugh, Jones, Richburg, Jerry, and Hart.
And I'd start integrating Flowers into either RG or RT on plays (similar to when Parcells would be subbing in Brian Williams for Oates at center).
Changes need to be made.
This is THE PROBLEM! The ball coming out quickly requires 8-12 play drives, and we can't sustain that without a mistake - sack, penalty, turnover, bad routes/calls.
If they can't run it, they need to pass pro better to allow for more diverse routes IMO............
You can't just switch guys mid-season to the right side when they've never played there before, as much as we'd all like to. It's totally different. Flowers has enough problems with his footwork/hand placement. Imagine reversing r/l with all of that?
The only viable solution is to bench him, or if you're going to keep him in the game then PLEASE STOP asking him to block without any help. He clearly needs double-team help against the league's better rushers.
On the right side, Pugh stays until we find a better option. In theory, Hart's troubles are due to his ankle. Maybe he gets healthy and plays better. Probably he's going to stay there.
We got very little push on the right side in the running game though, and we kept going there. I'd seriously consider putting Fluker in at RG with Jones at LG. And I'd seriously consider having a sixth OL on the line in obvious passing situations - maybe Wheeler outside Flowers?
We could still send three guys out, even the RB could release after the snap if needed.