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BlueHurricane : 9/19/2017 11:11 am
"Eli will not last much longer behind this O-Line. Eli is good enough to win. He is not the problem. He cannot continue behind this O-Line"

His point was this is a fork in the road for Ben. Said we will see if Ben is a flexible coach or if he is so married to a system that he cannot change his game plan even though it is not functioning with this O-line. Said its obvious the guys playing will be the guys playing. Ben needs to scheme around it.
Kareem McKenzie in playing shape?  
Rflairr : 9/19/2017 11:13 am : link
.
It's not like you can scheme  
AnishPatel : 9/19/2017 11:15 am : link
around not being able to run AND pass block. Our QB is 36 years old and isn't mobile, so we can't do much.

McAdoo seems like one stubborn SOB.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/19/2017 11:15 am : link
So I don't see much changing.
He's right  
UberAlias : 9/19/2017 11:15 am : link
They may stick with Pugh at RT and Jones at G. But yes, beyond that they'll scheme short throws and give EF some help and that will be the answer we'll have to live with.
I agree with Carl in some respects.  
NorwoodWideRight : 9/19/2017 11:18 am : link
Eli is good enough to win, obviously. And he won't last behind this OL. He can't play behind this OL. But to say he's not the problem (as in, at least part of the problem) is wrong.

Eli makes mistakes because of the OL and the pressure. The key point here is that Eli makes mistakes. If he didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't be part of the problem.

You can argue that, hey, who the hell could possibly work under that kind of pressure? It's a valid argument, but that's not the point. The point is that Eli gets paid top tier QB money to make plays, and that includes making plays when there is little to no pressure and occasional plays when there is pressure.
RE: It's not like you can scheme  
TyreeHelmet : 9/19/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13606388 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
around not being able to run AND pass block. Our QB is 36 years old and isn't mobile, so we can't do much.


Exactly. The line doesn't just have 1 weak spot, its the entire unit. They can zero push off the ball. They struggle against bull rushes and speed rushers. They simply aren't any good.
This.....................  
GiantBlue : 9/19/2017 11:19 am : link
Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo · 34m .

Rewatching Eagles-Chiefs. If the Giants can't scheme up ways to help their OTs vs this Philly pass rush, pray for Eli.
RE: This.....................  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/19/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13606405 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo · 34m .

Rewatching Eagles-Chiefs. If the Giants can't scheme up ways to help their OTs vs this Philly pass rush, pray for Eli.


I'm lighting a candle for him now.
That hit he took  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/19/2017 11:20 am : link
on the pass to Shepard was brutal. He just got walloped.
RE: This.....................  
Stu11 : 9/19/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13606405 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo · 34m .

Rewatching Eagles-Chiefs. If the Giants can't scheme up ways to help their OTs vs this Philly pass rush, pray for Eli.

absolutely. I'm sorry but they need to be in max protect most of the game Sunday. It will hurt downfield chances but thats the only choice we have at this point.
RE: RE: This.....................  
Chris in Philly : 9/19/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13606417 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13606405 GiantBlue said:


Quote:


Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo · 34m .

Rewatching Eagles-Chiefs. If the Giants can't scheme up ways to help their OTs vs this Philly pass rush, pray for Eli.


absolutely. I'm sorry but they need to be in max protect most of the game Sunday. It will hurt downfield chances but thats the only choice we have at this point.


Thankfully the Eagles CB's are comparable to our OL...
At some point McAdoo is going to need to save himself  
widmerseyebrow : 9/19/2017 11:23 am : link
over appeasing his boss. Unfortunately his boss left him with no plan B.
The drive we scored the TD  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/19/2017 11:24 am : link
Was what we need to do all the time. Quick 3 step drops. Get the ball out quick. Can't call anything that takes time to develop. Have to do this or... well you saw how the rest of the game went.
Max protect only helps if you can run the ball, which we can't  
PatersonPlank : 9/19/2017 11:24 am : link
The OL has to change or nothing will get better.

Oh, and to the comment above ALL Qb's make mistake when under duress. Brady in week one, Rogers yesterday, etc., etc. Its not an Eli thing.
Mike Sullivan's  
clydeman1 : 9/19/2017 11:28 am : link
preseason words ring hauntingly prophetic: 'we will go as far as this OL will take us'
RE: I agree with Carl in some respects.  
TyreeHelmet : 9/19/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13606400 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
Eli is good enough to win, obviously. And he won't last behind this OL. He can't play behind this OL. But to say he's not the problem (as in, at least part of the problem) is wrong.

Eli makes mistakes because of the OL and the pressure. The key point here is that Eli makes mistakes. If he didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't be part of the problem.

You can argue that, hey, who the hell could possibly work under that kind of pressure? It's a valid argument, but that's not the point. The point is that Eli gets paid top tier QB money to make plays, and that includes making plays when there is little to no pressure and occasional plays when there is pressure.


Good point. Greg Robinson was abused last night by Vernon but Stafford was able to extend plays and avoid sacks.
Why can't Eli just do this every week?  
Motley Two : 9/19/2017 11:31 am : link





RE: Why can't Eli just do this every week?  
BlueHurricane : 9/19/2017 11:33 am : link
In comment 13606445 Motley Two said:
Quote:






Pretty sure this is what Reese/Ben (and a lot of posters) believe he should be doing just that.

Been a crime what he has had to play behind these last few years.
Here's a Thought  
Bernie : 9/19/2017 11:36 am : link
the players actually stink. At what point do you just recognize they cannot do the job they were hired to do? At what point do they as players just say "enough is enough, I'm going to block this guy"? How can blame be place upon the scheme when these guys are consistently beat in 1 on 1 battles? I think we have all seen enough of Flowers at left tackle to recognize he is too slow and stiff to play out there. Are the Giants really going to give Pugh a huge payday this year? Same for Richburg. I'm so sick of hearing about potential and young players. BS. If you can't do the job, you lose your job.
RE: I agree with Carl in some respects.  
BurberryManning : 9/19/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13606400 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:

Eli makes mistakes because of the OL and the pressure. The key point here is that Eli makes mistakes. If he didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't be part of the problem.

You can argue that, hey, who the hell could possibly work under that kind of pressure? It's a valid argument, but that's not the point. The point is that Eli gets paid top tier QB money to make plays, and that includes making plays when there is little to no pressure and occasional plays when there is pressure.
You keep making these statements as if they are unassailable. Your rhetorical argument is exactly one of the critical points- no quarterback could possibly work under this kind of pressure, regardless of their paycheck.

When there was a play to be made last night, Eli overwhelmingly put the team in position to make those plays. When there was not a play to be made, Eli still founds was to put the team in position to succeed (ex. Shepard completion under duress). If you can provide clear examples of plays that Eli left on the field last night, I'd be happy to review them.

By the way, Eli Manning's average salary is tied for 10th for NFL quarterbacks. While above average, this is not prohibitive or "top-tier" money that should lead to unreasonable expectations of perfection.
this is nothing new or profound  
hitdog42 : 9/19/2017 11:39 am : link
and was talked about all this week...

if ben is in the technique/communication improvement camp... we are doomed... stubborn wont work.

if he is flexible and adapts to the personnel more... we have the talent to be fine.

we have 3 fking TEs are are solid, solid, and potentially excellent.

Chip with the fcking RBs... run more 2 TE sets and be diverse with them.... dont do stupid 5 step drop on 2nd and 10+.... and the offense will be fine. Maybe move a better run blocking to RG so that we can move some bodies there...

but really its so fkcing obvious--- and it doesnt crush the team and limit us that much if he gets his head out of his ass.

RE: RE: I agree with Carl in some respects.  
NorwoodWideRight : 9/19/2017 11:44 am : link
In comment 13606470 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 13606400 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:



Eli makes mistakes because of the OL and the pressure. The key point here is that Eli makes mistakes. If he didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't be part of the problem.

You can argue that, hey, who the hell could possibly work under that kind of pressure? It's a valid argument, but that's not the point. The point is that Eli gets paid top tier QB money to make plays, and that includes making plays when there is little to no pressure and occasional plays when there is pressure.

You keep making these statements as if they are unassailable. Your rhetorical argument is exactly one of the critical points- no quarterback could possibly work under this kind of pressure, regardless of their paycheck.

When there was a play to be made last night, Eli overwhelmingly put the team in position to make those plays. When there was not a play to be made, Eli still founds was to put the team in position to succeed (ex. Shepard completion under duress). If you can provide clear examples of plays that Eli left on the field last night, I'd be happy to review them.

By the way, Eli Manning's average salary is tied for 10th for NFL quarterbacks. While above average, this is not prohibitive or "top-tier" money that should lead to unreasonable expectations of perfection.


Dude, I don't know what your problem is, but your argument is indefensible. Are you really, actually telling me that Eli doesn't make mistakes? What about the pass behind Engram last night? Mistake, or are you one of those who things that Engram should have turned into plastic man and reached behind him with both hands and caught the ball?

I'm sorry, man, but for you to sit there and say "Eli is perfect! Fuck everyone who says otherwise!" makes you look like a complete idiot.
RE: RE: RE: I agree with Carl in some respects.  
BurberryManning : 9/19/2017 11:51 am : link
In comment 13606487 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
In comment 13606470 BurberryManning said:


Quote:


In comment 13606400 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:



Eli makes mistakes because of the OL and the pressure. The key point here is that Eli makes mistakes. If he didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't be part of the problem.

You can argue that, hey, who the hell could possibly work under that kind of pressure? It's a valid argument, but that's not the point. The point is that Eli gets paid top tier QB money to make plays, and that includes making plays when there is little to no pressure and occasional plays when there is pressure.

You keep making these statements as if they are unassailable. Your rhetorical argument is exactly one of the critical points- no quarterback could possibly work under this kind of pressure, regardless of their paycheck.

When there was a play to be made last night, Eli overwhelmingly put the team in position to make those plays. When there was not a play to be made, Eli still founds was to put the team in position to succeed (ex. Shepard completion under duress). If you can provide clear examples of plays that Eli left on the field last night, I'd be happy to review them.

By the way, Eli Manning's average salary is tied for 10th for NFL quarterbacks. While above average, this is not prohibitive or "top-tier" money that should lead to unreasonable expectations of perfection.



Dude, I don't know what your problem is, but your argument is indefensible. Are you really, actually telling me that Eli doesn't make mistakes? What about the pass behind Engram last night? Mistake, or are you one of those who things that Engram should have turned into plastic man and reached behind him with both hands and caught the ball?

I'm sorry, man, but for you to sit there and say "Eli is perfect! Fuck everyone who says otherwise!" makes you look like a complete idiot.
I am perfectly willing to say that Eli makes mistakes, in fact I dont argue that he made quite a glaring mistake that resulted in an interception. He also made a mistake in mismanaging the game clock on 4th down and I'm sure he missed a couple of receivers at some point.

My point is that Unitas in his prime made mistakes and by holding any quarterback to such an unreasonably standard of playing perfect football in order for them not to be considered part of the problem is lunacy, in my opinion. Tom Brady couldn't operate in Week 1, Aaron Rodgers has struggled this season. Are they part of any problem on their respective teams?

I'm not an apologist- I'm a realist. I watch a good portion of most NFL games and see that the quarterbacking that we get from Eli Manning, within the context of his environment, is pretty damned good compared to the alternatives. I don't see Eli as part of the problem. I see Manning as one of the few solutions on a team that needs many more of them..
RE: RE: RE: This.....................  
BigBlueinChicago : 9/19/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13606421 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Thankfully the Eagles CB's are comparable to our OL...


Don't fall for this trap. We have seen this movie before.

2013. Giants at 0-2 at Carolina. Both of their starting CB's and another secondary player was out.

Time to throw the ball right?

Nope. 7 sacks. 6 in first half. Couldn't run the ball. Couldn't protect Eli. Couldn't do anything.

38-0 the final. Season over.

Right now, we appear to be headed to a similar path Sunday down there.

If you are saying Eli makes mistakes  
NorwoodWideRight : 9/19/2017 11:54 am : link
as a result of pressure, coverage or because he has a blister on his pinky toe, that makes him a part of the problem and this argument is completely moot. Whether you like it or not, Eli IS a part of the problem. Is the main cause of their offensive woes? Nope. Is he a contributing cause? Yup.

I'm not wasting my time arguing this point any further. With the exception of some really blind fanboys, EVERYONE agrees that Eli must shoulder some responsibility for his foibles. And, as the second highest paid QB at the time his contract was drawn up, yes, I fucking expect him to rise above players like Stafford at least some of the time.
RE: That hit he took  
gmenatlarge : 9/19/2017 11:56 am : link
In comment 13606408 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
on the pass to Shepard was brutal. He just got walloped.

Exactly and the guy drove him into the ground, how is that not roughing? Yet they call a stupid taunting penalty, didn't miss that.
RE: Here's a Thought  
gmenatlarge : 9/19/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13606463 Bernie said:
Quote:
the players actually stink. At what point do you just recognize they cannot do the job they were hired to do? At what point do they as players just say "enough is enough, I'm going to block this guy"? How can blame be place upon the scheme when these guys are consistently beat in 1 on 1 battles? I think we have all seen enough of Flowers at left tackle to recognize he is too slow and stiff to play out there. Are the Giants really going to give Pugh a huge payday this year? Same for Richburg. I'm so sick of hearing about potential and young players. BS. If you can't do the job, you lose your job.


Definitely agree, the Vikings changed their WHOLE line in the offseason, we didn't even add a decent player! (someone else's castoffs don't count.)
RE: RE: RE: I agree with Carl in some respects.  
Britt in VA : 9/19/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13606487 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
In comment 13606470 BurberryManning said:


Quote:


In comment 13606400 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:



Eli makes mistakes because of the OL and the pressure. The key point here is that Eli makes mistakes. If he didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't be part of the problem.

You can argue that, hey, who the hell could possibly work under that kind of pressure? It's a valid argument, but that's not the point. The point is that Eli gets paid top tier QB money to make plays, and that includes making plays when there is little to no pressure and occasional plays when there is pressure.

You keep making these statements as if they are unassailable. Your rhetorical argument is exactly one of the critical points- no quarterback could possibly work under this kind of pressure, regardless of their paycheck.

When there was a play to be made last night, Eli overwhelmingly put the team in position to make those plays. When there was not a play to be made, Eli still founds was to put the team in position to succeed (ex. Shepard completion under duress). If you can provide clear examples of plays that Eli left on the field last night, I'd be happy to review them.

By the way, Eli Manning's average salary is tied for 10th for NFL quarterbacks. While above average, this is not prohibitive or "top-tier" money that should lead to unreasonable expectations of perfection.



Dude, I don't know what your problem is, but your argument is indefensible. Are you really, actually telling me that Eli doesn't make mistakes? What about the pass behind Engram last night? Mistake, or are you one of those who things that Engram should have turned into plastic man and reached behind him with both hands and caught the ball?

I'm sorry, man, but for you to sit there and say "Eli is perfect! Fuck everyone who says otherwise!" makes you look like a complete idiot.


Your notion that he has to be perfect is equally as dumb.
Eli looks like toast.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/19/2017 12:01 pm : link
.
RE: If you are saying Eli makes mistakes  
gmen9892 : 9/19/2017 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13606519 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
as a result of pressure, coverage or because he has a blister on his pinky toe, that makes him a part of the problem and this argument is completely moot. Whether you like it or not, Eli IS a part of the problem. Is the main cause of their offensive woes? Nope. Is he a contributing cause? Yup.

I'm not wasting my time arguing this point any further. With the exception of some really blind fanboys, EVERYONE agrees that Eli must shoulder some responsibility for his foibles. And, as the second highest paid QB at the time his contract was drawn up, yes, I fucking expect him to rise above players like Stafford at least some of the time.



This is the problem. The Eli detractors say that the Eli defenders think he is perfect and blameless. Most of the Eli defenders know that he is not blameless in all of this and could probably be playing better. That is not the argument. The argument is that he could be playing light years better if he had any semblance of blocking in front of him and that no other QB can succeed with this kind of blocking and ZERO running game.
Eagles d-line preparing for Sunday  
ghost718 : 9/19/2017 12:04 pm : link
RE: I agree with Carl in some respects.  
micky : 9/19/2017 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13606400 NorwoodWideRight said:
Quote:
Eli is good enough to win, obviously. And he won't last behind this OL. He can't play behind this OL. But to say he's not the problem (as in, at least part of the problem) is wrong.

Eli makes mistakes because of the OL and the pressure. The key point here is that Eli makes mistakes. If he didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't be part of the problem.

You can argue that, hey, who the hell could possibly work under that kind of pressure? It's a valid argument, but that's not the point. The point is that Eli gets paid top tier QB money to make plays, and that includes making plays when there is little to no pressure and occasional plays when there is pressure.



banks has to take company line in that he can't say Eli is PART of the problem and is a good qb at this stage of career. have to turn a blind eye to it to stay employed
RE: RE: I agree with Carl in some respects.  
Britt in VA : 9/19/2017 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13606556 micky said:
Quote:
In comment 13606400 NorwoodWideRight said:


Quote:


Eli is good enough to win, obviously. And he won't last behind this OL. He can't play behind this OL. But to say he's not the problem (as in, at least part of the problem) is wrong.

Eli makes mistakes because of the OL and the pressure. The key point here is that Eli makes mistakes. If he didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't be part of the problem.

You can argue that, hey, who the hell could possibly work under that kind of pressure? It's a valid argument, but that's not the point. The point is that Eli gets paid top tier QB money to make plays, and that includes making plays when there is little to no pressure and occasional plays when there is pressure.




banks has to take company line in that he can't say Eli is PART of the problem and is a good qb at this stage of career. have to turn a blind eye to it to stay employed


Oh, is that right? That's the company line? I guess nobody told McAdoo since he continually criticizes Eli while seemingly absolving the O-line. Banks is scared of losing his job but McAdoo is not, I guess.
RE: RE: Here's a Thought  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/19/2017 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13606533 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:



Definitely agree, the Vikings changed their WHOLE line in the offseason, we didn't even add a decent player! (someone else's castoffs don't count.)


To be fair, they had a LOT more salary cap space than we did. Heck, 2 of their 3 most expensive players left in free agency.
RE: The drive we scored the TD  
batman11 : 9/19/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13606424 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Was what we need to do all the time. Quick 3 step drops. Get the ball out quick. Can't call anything that takes time to develop. Have to do this or... well you saw how the rest of the game went.


Agreed. I would also start the game in the "hurry up offense". Have to pick up the tempo, keep the defense from substituting so much and get those "d" lineman tired out.
Anyone who thinks Eli can't still win at a high level  
BlueHurricane : 9/19/2017 12:31 pm : link
Doesn't understand the game. The guy is an excellent QB. I would love to see him play behind a better line.

Eli was the best Giants offensive player in the GB playoff game last year................. By a wide margin.
Questions  
Rover : 9/19/2017 1:08 pm : link
1) Where can I find an audio recording of Banks?

2) What time is on he on each week?

Thanks.
Eli  
Andrew in Austin : 9/19/2017 1:09 pm : link
Eli played incredibly tough in the 2nd half and delivered balls that his receivers need to catch.

He was hit 8 times with 5 sacks during that game and our run game was absolute zero. I'm not sure what else he could have done. I am going to be amazed if he continues his iron man streak this season. EF is going to get him permanently injured.

Eli has always made some mistakes - but I see other QBs doing the same. What I appreciated was he had us driving and threw a perfect ball to Marshall who promptly dropped it. He layed another one on Engram (who got nailed) - but our receivers are going to have to make those catches when they can.
Exactly. I mean wow!!  
map7711 : 9/19/2017 1:54 pm : link
Since when does a QB now have to be perfect. Yes he makes mistakes, but so does every WB. You are asking him to be perfect. That's not fair. During the game posters were calling out Eli for throwing to WRs or RBs short of the first down. By maybe a yard or two. How about someone make a freaking play!! Make someone miss or make the extra effort to get a first down!! How many times have we seen teams throw a screen against the Giants on a third and long and make it? We all scream at the D for that. Nobody ever says oh that was a mistake by the QB, he should never have thrown that. Make a damn play and help out your team and QB. Please!!
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