We know by know Reese's tendencies and where he likes to invest most dollars.
DL
CB
QB
WR
Historically LB and TE have not been premium paid position for NYG under his tenure. Partially due to lack of emphasis on those positions in the the scheme, but I wonder if some of that is by design due to having limited dollars with a salary cap, and a sort of need to place less importance on certain positions as way to save dollars for "more important" positions.
Now, part of me wonders if the neglect to do whatever it takes to build a premium o-line around our statuesque qb has anything to do with Reese putting the OL into a similar lower investment bucket as LB and TE historically have been...
Considering the switch to McAdoo and WCO, with quick and shorter passes, do you think Reese and NYG front office were thinking that the scheme could make up for an average-to-weak OL... so that they could free up money for more "premium" (in their mind) positions? And that they can skate by that way?
Just something that crossed my mind, and probably me trying to create some reasoning for the complete dumpster fire of a o-line we have and how it seems not enough effort and stones being turned over to fix it... There really is no excuse, so maybe it was a major swing and miss gameplan, or Reese is as bad as feared scouting o-line.
In either event, just terrible all the way around to not protect our aging, mostly immobile SB winning QB on the backside of his career. Someone said criminal, and after seeing some of those hits Eli took last night... that's probably appropriate.
My take is I agree with many here, a change needs to be made at least internally...
Even if Pugh is our best LG, he may be our best tackle too, even if average or below average he isn't a complete albatross like Flowers...
The key is to minimize the absolute liability that Flowers is on the blind side and get him the hell away from LT.
Here are the combinations I would consider...
Pugh - Jones/Fluker - Richburg - Jerry/Flowers/Fluker/Jones - Hart/Wheeler/Flowers
Tough nut to crack, but I'm thinking
Pugh - Fluker - Richburg - Flowers - Hart (or Wheeler)
Going to a beefier interior and see if we can open up some holes to run through. If it works, it can at least create better run lanes, down and distance, help Eli a bit that way, and help protection thru play action and at least the threat of run..
If someone falters badly between Fluker and Flowers insert Jones then Jerry next.... If Hart is hurt or sucks, go with Wheeler. As Terps said before, guys should be playing for their jobs each game, maybe fear will motivate.
Just please try something.
In the last 2 years they have invested in one reject(Fluker) who opponents in his own division rejected over Newhouse... Did we get to a point 2 off seasons ago where we realized that OL was sufficient and didn't need further investment?
No, thats speculation, and on the opposite end of the spectrum from "fact".
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In the last 5 years they've spent 2 firsts and a second on the OL. The returns on those investments have been average to awful but the investment is there. The issue is OL evaluation and the stubbornness we've seen in sticking with what clearly isn't working.
In the last 2 years they have invested in one reject(Fluker) who opponents in his own division rejected over Newhouse... Did we get to a point 2 off seasons ago where we realized that OL was sufficient and didn't need further investment?
It speaks to the stubbornness I talked about. They weren't going to spend top picks when they were confident the others, like Flowers, we're going to develop. That's a separate issue from not valuing the OL. They value it, they've just made bad investments. But the initial investments were there. GoTerps takes a lot of flak for what at times certainly seem like contrarian views, but one thing he was right about was trying to improve the OL in FA prior to the 2016 season. That would have been the way to go. But they were confident (stubborn) that guys would get better. And it may cost some in the FO their jobs.
I hear you, but Giants were flush with money two seasons ago, still nearly $10M under today. I know contracts are coming up, but the premium is protecting Eli, not adding skill talent. He has made a career making even below average talent look good when he has time. Then picking Apple and Engram the previous two drafts when there was not a tremendous amount of promise from the current o-line is totally baffling.
I love the sexy skill picks and defenders, that's usually where I would go... but against my own grain I fully felt we needed to go OL - OL in the draft this past year, and we only sniffed guys at the end of the draft and undrafted free agents... That's insane. And so is the choice to not do even more especially with the writing on the wall with the current group.
I don't care where they were drafted. They need to be help accountable.
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In comment 13606575 j_rud said:
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In the last 5 years they've spent 2 firsts and a second on the OL. The returns on those investments have been average to awful but the investment is there. The issue is OL evaluation and the stubbornness we've seen in sticking with what clearly isn't working.
In the last 2 years they have invested in one reject(Fluker) who opponents in his own division rejected over Newhouse... Did we get to a point 2 off seasons ago where we realized that OL was sufficient and didn't need further investment?
It speaks to the stubbornness I talked about. They weren't going to spend top picks when they were confident the others, like Flowers, we're going to develop. That's a separate issue from not valuing the OL. They value it, they've just made bad investments. But the initial investments were there. GoTerps takes a lot of flak for what at times certainly seem like contrarian views, but one thing he was right about was trying to improve the OL in FA prior to the 2016 season. That would have been the way to go. But they were confident (stubborn) that guys would get better. And it may cost some in the FO their jobs.
So again we knew our OL sucked mightly at end of 2015 season.. and we did nothing.. then we knew they sucked mightly again in 2016.. yet in the offseason Vikings, Detroit, Cleveland, Denver were able to make moves... but we weren't..
At this point we haven't made any investment in the last 2 years..
Its not a total myth. He invested and missed. And unlike other positions where he missed he didn't do anything to fix his fuck ups. He spends more capital in FA and draft picks on other positions. If you choose to deny actual facts feel free.
He's been a GM for 11 years. The first 6 he drafted one guy in the top 3 rounds. wow what dedication to a kind of important group. A Beatty LT who he re-signed even though he was pedestrian at best. The when the OL fell apart he reached 3 years in a row. Pugh at least was a hit but Richberg needs to go and FLowers is a bust.
In the years you are all aflutter and bound and determined to defend him he drafted % DL while he had JPP amnd went out and gave Vernon JJ Watt money. Grabbed Snacks Drafted Hankins, Moore, OO, Bromley and now Tomlinson. He also let Joseph walk for a reasonable deal.
Now do the math. Its not hard 4 DLs play. He's 4 and signed 2. 5 OL play and he's drafted 3 and singed Schwartz and Fluker. Yeah its exactly the same dedication to the OL. Why wasn't Bromley just handed the job like Flowers and Richberg?
Never mind WR or CB where he drafts them high year after year and if he misses replaces them w FAs or more picks.
Just for once let it sink in that in his first 6 years he barely tried to infuse new young talent on the team at OL then was forced to go best OL rather than BPA. Which all of his defenders insist he does as well
That's the myth
And the bullshit myth there wasn't an OL worthy of any of the first 3 picks is worse than people giving him shit for this pathetic group of OL