Sorry long Post
I have NEVER agreed with the hiring of Ben McAdoo! I will elaborate so please hear me out.
Tom Coughlin and Ben McAdoo are polar opposites when it comes to football philosophy, so there is NO WAY ON GODS GREEN EARTH That TC was on board with the Hiring of Ben McAdoo. I noticed in the first season with McAdoo as the OC, that TC was not happy with McAdoo's play calling (Lack of running the ball) and McAdoo when he did run the ball hated it. The body language of the 2 coaches was plain as day on the sidelines. Coughlin did however keep the defense's honest by running the ball and made this O-line look better (Key Word LOOK) than they actually were. He covered up the deficiencies by keeping the Offense BALANCED 50 50 Pass Run. That slowed down the assault of Eli Manning so when he did drop back to pass he had a little more time because the defense had to read and react. They didn't know for the most part if it was a run or pass and those few seconds mean the difference between a completion or a rushed pass.
After the 2015 season TC gets fired and ben McAdoo becomes the HC. At this time I'm fuming. There is a reason why Ben McAdoo has been in the NFL since 2004 and was NEVER Elevated to a Coordinator's position. He was hired by San Fran in 2004 as the offensive quality control guy, was then hired in 2005 (I think) by Green bay as the TE's position Coach and then became Aaron Rodgers coach/advisor/mentor. He was never elevated to a Coordinator's position for a reason, and we are now seeing that reason.
Its too late but we are seeing why. He is arrogant, he is stubborn, he has no imagination or desire to make in game adjustment's and he refuses to let his OC call the plays. These are characteristics of someone you don't want being in charge of your team or your Offense. He is so ridged and so self centered he cant give up the play calling. It's almost like NO YOU CANT DO THIS BETTER THAN ME, IM THE BEST SO IM CALLING THE PLAYS. He also besides the NY Giants for 2 seasons had no control over the Offensive scheme or plays, so he is empowered now and doesn't want to let that power go. With all this said, here is what some of you may think of as CRAZY, but it does have validity and makes sense.
I have a feeling that McAdoo and Reese are trying to force Eli to retire. Hear me out please.
I stated earlier that TC was not on board with the hireing of McAdoo. McAdoo was hired by Reese. Reese totally ignored the talent level on this team especially defensively and made TC look like he was out of touch with this team. There was no coach that could have done half the ob TC did in his last season given the talent or lack there of on this team at that time. In fact it actually made TC look like a genius as far as coaches go because he got those players to play above their talent level the entire season. He won games with that team, most other coaches more than likely wouldn't have won 5 games.
TC was thrown under the bus by Reese and maybe McAdoo so McAdoo could become the HC. I'm sure Reese plead McAdoo's case to ownership to secure that decision. McAdoo becomes HC and all of a sudden Reese goes on a spending spree unprecedented of anything the NY Giants have ever done. We go from one of the worst Defense's to one of the best Defense's in the league. Why didn't Reese do some of that the years prior to TC getting fired? If he had just done a quarter of that the year prior TC would have NOT BEEN FIRED.
That brings me to this analogy. The Offensive line has been bad since 2012 Reese has really done nothing to fix it. The last 3 seasons have been the worst, and everyone and their brother knows that Eric Flowers is NOT A LT. in fact that was apparent last season no argument needed. Reese has NOT brought in anyone to compete with Flowers ever. Not even a guy who may be a little better than Flowers.
He did however, the offseason after Flowers rookie year, had 3 FA's one of them was Michael Oher and the other 2 were old but still could play at a high level Their names escape me, come in and work out and they were all 3 told LT is not an option we will sign you as RT or Guard but LT is out of the question, we are all set at that position. All 3 left without signing.
Eli Manning is not too old he is older but still can play at a high level. Last offseason, McAdoo and Reese both took shots at Eli, saying he has to move his feet more, he is on his back 9 of his career, the O-line is fine Eli has to learn to move around more, etc.etc. I thought it strange to call out Eli Manning but not the O-line. Hell Eli hasn't had a running game for the last 3 seasons to even help him out, he is playing to protect himself because for the last 3 seasons he has been pummeled game in and game out. Last night he was sacked 1-2-3-4-5-5 times for crying out loud, 3 of them directly caused by poor play from Flowers.
Knowing how Reese gave TC in his last season a team wit very little to no talent, a bunch of FA cast offs that wouldn't be starters on any other team in the NFL. Then TC gets canned and his name smeared all over the press by Reese who took NO RESPONSIBILITY for the team what so ever.
Now as of last Offseason Eli Manning is getting thrown under the bus by not only Reese but McAdoo also. McAdoo more so than Reese because McAdoo is in front of the press more that Reese. Reese unexpectedly drafts a QB in the 3rd round, without even mentioning it to Eli before it was done. Knowingly keeps an O-line together that is just atrocious and 3 out of the 5 players are backups at best and Jerry would more that likely not be on an NFL team besides the NY Giants. They keep Webb safe from the team by red shirting him so he cant play, and it is apparent that he was the best choice to be the backup to Eli Manning. Out playing Geno Smith and Josh Johnson in the preseason, but he is not dressing because not if but when Eli gets hurt they don't want to expose the kid to that kind of pressure and bad really bad O-line play.
I'm thinking that Reese and McAdoo want Eli out. I'm also thinking that McAdoo in his interview for the OC job told Reese his Offensive philosophy is you don't need a Great O-line in fact you can field a sub-par O-line with my Offense because the QB wont have the ball in his hands more than1.5 secs. That was something Reese wanted to hear, because Reese had mentioned on the NFL network about 5 or 6 years ago, that when drafting I have a real affinity to pick a Playmaker a guy that can make amazing plays, the guy who when he plays people go WOW DID YOU SEE THAT type of player, knowing that this team needs Linemen, I cant draft the lineman with that type player staring at me on the draft board. the only reason I remember that is because when he said that I was shocked. I knew the Giants were in big trouble, because all the Playmakers in the league are Average to Below Average If your QB doesn't have the time to pass the ball to them to make the plays.
Eli Manning doesn't fit that WOW Player Reese wants. Eli is a pocket passer and he is not a QB that has speed or wants to run the ball. With protection Eli can tear a defense apart with his arm, give him a running game and he is dangerous, and can play with the best QB's in the league. Problem is he cant do that under duress play in and play out.
McAdoo wants an Aaron Rodgers type QB a QB that can run when needed, Eli isn't that type of player and he never was. But Davis Webb is. I have a feeling that McAdoo and Reese want Eli out of the NY Giants, they cant justify it to Management ie The Owners, so they are making it next to impossible for him to succeed in this league. So make it look like Eli is too Old to play and he has lost his game, or get Eli hurt and force him to retire because of injury. When Eli is gone fix the O-line and bring in Davis Webb to justify what the 2 Assholes said to the Owners about Eli, kind of like they made Coughlin look like he was the problem with the NY Giants and he was too old to relate to the players. Smear his name all over the press so Reese looks like the savior of the team.
Like I said It may sound Crazy, but this is almost the same scenario as with Coughlin, just different circumstances and people involved. Also Eli Manning is the last TC Era person left on this team, Reese doesn't want him anymore so lets just get rid of him
McAdoo is just your average over his head dummy. He has no business being a head coach in this league and he cant execute a proper offense unless Beckam is taking 5 yard slants to the house on a regular basis. McAdoo is also an arrogant ass who would rather place the blame at the feet of the classy 2 time super bowl MVP Eli Manning than admit his own culpability in this mess. He knows Eli is a nice guy who wouldnt dare come back at him and call him out on his blatant disrespect.
His decision-making lost about 4-5 ballgames where the talent level was good enough to bring them to the doorstep of victory.
TC was a great coach. 2015 was a bad year for him.
His decision-making lost about 4-5 ballgames where the talent level was good enough to bring them to the doorstep of victory.
TC was a great coach. 2015 was a bad year for him.
Coughlin's decision making was marred by the fact that he knew his defense couldn't get a critical stop when needed.
The 2015 Giants lost 6 games where they tied or took the lead with under 2 minutes remaining. If Tom Coughlin had the benefit of a 200 million dollar defense, he could have played it conservative like McAdoo did last year, too. He did not.
His decision-making lost about 4-5 ballgames where the talent level was good enough to bring them to the doorstep of victory.
TC was a great coach. 2015 was a bad year for him.
Who was calling the plays on Offense? Was it TC who caused the DOG Penalties or was the play calling S-L-O_W getting to the QB?
After all, this is the man who brought us the 'Superbowl Clock'.
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I take issue with your take on Tom Coughlin in 2015.
His decision-making lost about 4-5 ballgames where the talent level was good enough to bring them to the doorstep of victory.
TC was a great coach. 2015 was a bad year for him.
Coughlin's decision making was marred by the fact that he knew his defense couldn't get a critical stop when needed.
The 2015 Giants lost 6 games where they tied or took the lead with under 2 minutes remaining. If Tom Coughlin had the benefit of a 200 million dollar defense, he could have played it conservative like McAdoo did last year, too. He did not.
I 100 percent agree with you that Defense was awful and could not be trusted at all
And you know this HOW? Rumors are a great thing to throw you off what s really happening
Again who was calling the plays? It wasn't Coughlin he only approved or modified the Game Plan the Plays were being called by McAdoo Not Coughlin
Easier said than done to find a balance between needing a score to win or stay in the game, while concurrently running out clock.
It's like to polar opposite philosophies.
Had he run out of time needing the score, we'd be skewering him for lacking a sense of urgency. He was stuck in an impossible situation with the cards he was dealt.
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that he continued to put them out there time and time again to get one more stop, instead of trying to get his offense to play up more TOP and score more.
Easier said than done to find a balance between needing a score to win or stay in the game, while concurrently running out clock.
It's like to polar opposite philosophies.
Had he run out of time needing the score, we'd be skewering him for lacking a sense of urgency. He was stuck in an impossible situation with the cards he was dealt.
Exactly You are spot on Britt
Good grief, how do you also know Coughlin didn't want
MacAdoo as an OC?
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think Webb was an afterthought. McAdoo hadn't even spoken to him before the draft because nobody thought he'd be available in round three. The rumor was that McAdoo wanted Mahomes.
And you know this HOW? Rumors are a great thing to throw you off what s really happening
You calling out rumors after your OP is the most ironic thing to take place on this site in quite some time.
Disagree with the part that TC was some gift of the Gods to us. He was an old fart and it was time for a change. And he wasted countless downs adhering to his stupid formula for balance. Your balance is whatever the other team thinks it is, regardless of your actual run/pass play percentage.
Major problem with your ramble at this point in the season, is that you have to explain what happened last year. Currently, last season outweighs what is at this point "just 2 games."
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that he continued to put them out there time and time again to get one more stop, instead of trying to get his offense to play up more TOP and score more.
Easier said than done to find a balance between needing a score to win or stay in the game, while concurrently running out clock.
It's like to polar opposite philosophies.
Had he run out of time needing the score, we'd be skewering him for lacking a sense of urgency. He was stuck in an impossible situation with the cards he was dealt.
Last year's offense was the equivalent of this year's defense. Somehow, the coaching staff managed to play to the team's strengths and eke out wins that would have been losses.
Coughlin wasn't in an impossible situation. Difficult, but not impossible. His reluctance to play to the team's strengths cost them.
And it wasn't the first year without the playoffs, that was going on several years. But for some reason, the coaching staff managed to escape any scrutiny in the eyes of some.
Coughlin had a great run here - a long tenure, two SBs. It's time had come. McAdoo might prove to not be the right person to replace him, but it was pretty obvious it was time for a change. The fact that Coughlin couldn't scare up another job despite being interested in coaching should tell you we weren't the only ones thinking that way.
I also think McAdoo is Jerry's coach.Those 2 walk alike,think alike,talk alike,but the outfits are a little different.
His two seasons as OC the giants averaged more points per game (25.05) than under Gilbride (24.44). Small sample size, but it doesn't fit your narrative.
Maybe McAdoo turns out to be a terrible HC, but he held his own as OC for two years.
Sure, Jerry Reese and MacAdoo teamed together to quietly subvert Saint Coughlin. Why didn't they spend more in 2015? Maybe because they only had $9million in cap space as opposed to the approximately $44million they had last year?
That's just the tip of the iceberg in your weird theory. I loved Coughlin, but he started to make some weird game management decisions even before 2015 and it was clearly time for him to go. This theory that MacAdoo and Reese are masterminding some sort of team overhaul is pretty ludicrious considering that Reese himself was very close to getting himself fired.
Eli spoke glowingly of Mac's system after thriving in it in 14 and 15. He also made it very clear he was against a 3rd offensive system in 4 years.
Whether you like or dislike Mac at this point, you need to recognize Eli's influence is the biggest reason he's here.
Not some weird conspiracy theory.
His two seasons as OC the giants averaged more points per game (25.05) than under Gilbride (24.44). Small sample size, but it doesn't fit your narrative.
Maybe McAdoo turns out to be a terrible HC, but he held his own as OC for two years.
And what happened AFTER TC was fired, where are these amazing numbers you talk about now?
Answer this question: Is Reese so premeditated by this obsession to get rid of Eli that he uses the 9th pick in the 2015 draft to select Erick Flowers so Eli looks like a shell of himself??
I do think there is a bunch of egos at play here. McAdoo is the offensive guru and he wants Eli to do his best Aaron Rodgers impression. McAdoo needs to coach the players he has to their strengths.....maybe he would rather get players that fit his system better.
Nice thought provoking post Triple G.
I see OP already had a similar thought process
Answer this question: Is Reese so premeditated by this obsession to get rid of Eli that he uses the 9th pick in the 2015 draft to select Erick Flowers so Eli looks like a shell of himself??
I do think there is a bunch of egos at play here. McAdoo is the offensive guru and he wants Eli to do his best Aaron Rodgers impression. McAdoo needs to coach the players he has to their strengths.....maybe he would rather get players that fit his system better.
Nice thought provoking post Triple G.
There are way too many things happening to this team that parallel what TC had gone through with this team not to start thinking that tis seems awfully familiar. Hey it worked once why wouldn't it work again. And I (Reese)look like a hero again
His decision-making lost about 4-5 ballgames where the talent level was good enough to bring them to the doorstep of victory.
TC was a great coach. 2015 was a bad year for him.
JR's talent cost us 4 years of missing the playoffs.. 2015 TC only had DRC as a legit defensive player.. the other 10 sucked balls... Demantre Moore was the second best defensive player on that team.. please under those circumstances no coach will have a solid game plan...
With what OL was he going to call running plays to eat up the clock?
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that he continued to put them out there time and time again to get one more stop, instead of trying to get his offense to play up more TOP and score more.
With what OL was he going to call running plays to eat up the clock?
EXACTLY -- thank You very Much
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and never elaborate why.
His two seasons as OC the giants averaged more points per game (25.05) than under Gilbride (24.44). Small sample size, but it doesn't fit your narrative.
Maybe McAdoo turns out to be a terrible HC, but he held his own as OC for two years.
And what happened AFTER TC was fired, where are these amazing numbers you talk about now?
That isn't relevant to what you said. You said McAdoo was never hired as a coordinator for a reason, implying he is incompetent as a coordinator. Yet he performed fine in his role as an OC for two years.
A guy can be a good coordinator and a crappy HC...see our own Steve Spagnuolo. But admitting that doesn't fit your subversion narrative.
He knows he is on the way out ....
Eli spoke glowingly of Mac's system after thriving in it in 14 and 15. He also made it very clear he was against a 3rd offensive system in 4 years.
Whether you like or dislike Mac at this point, you need to recognize Eli's influence is the biggest reason he's here.
Not some weird conspiracy theory.
Valid hence he can try giving Eli no the vaseline treatment but that does not absolve him of poor coaching decisions and the refusal to yank, move or help Flowers
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In comment 13606786 BH28 said:
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and never elaborate why.
His two seasons as OC the giants averaged more points per game (25.05) than under Gilbride (24.44). Small sample size, but it doesn't fit your narrative.
Maybe McAdoo turns out to be a terrible HC, but he held his own as OC for two years.
And what happened AFTER TC was fired, where are these amazing numbers you talk about now?
That isn't relevant to what you said. You said McAdoo was never hired as a coordinator for a reason, implying he is incompetent as a coordinator. Yet he performed fine in his role as an OC for two years.
A guy can be a good coordinator and a crappy HC...see our own Steve Spagnuolo. But admitting that doesn't fit your subversion narrative.
He performed ok with a HC that was approving and or Modifying his initial Game Plans, What has he done since left to his own devices? NOTHING. He is Terrible and he is no more than a positions coach no more no less a POSITIONS COACH.. He is a VERY GOOD YES MAN TO REESE THOUGH
Yup. For Both OC and HC. McAdoo a I said earlier was barely qualified to be an OC. As a head coach he's the guy at your job that no one can figure out how he fuck management hired never mind keeps promoting
I think Ownship Is going back to the days of meddling that created years and years of horrific football. Reese also loves guys like David Wilson and Clint Sintim over OL like Cordy Glenn and Max Unger. He drafts an OL
They plug the guy on and he's a starter no matter what.
They drafted Bromley and had zero issue a grabbing Tomlinson when he looked Average at best as he likely gone next year. Both Flowers and Richberg have under whelmed. What does he do? It's A failed high pick 6th rounder who got cut And Wheeler who is
A year or two away.
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In comment 13606822 Triple "G" said:
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In comment 13606786 BH28 said:
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and never elaborate why.
His two seasons as OC the giants averaged more points per game (25.05) than under Gilbride (24.44). Small sample size, but it doesn't fit your narrative.
Maybe McAdoo turns out to be a terrible HC, but he held his own as OC for two years.
And what happened AFTER TC was fired, where are these amazing numbers you talk about now?
That isn't relevant to what you said. You said McAdoo was never hired as a coordinator for a reason, implying he is incompetent as a coordinator. Yet he performed fine in his role as an OC for two years.
A guy can be a good coordinator and a crappy HC...see our own Steve Spagnuolo. But admitting that doesn't fit your subversion narrative.
He performed ok with a HC that was approving and or Modifying his initial Game Plans, What has he done since left to his own devices? NOTHING. He is Terrible and he is no more than a positions coach no more no less a POSITIONS COACH.. He is a VERY GOOD YES MAN TO REESE THOUGH
Troll Checklist:
1. Fails to elaborate on initial post with any factual data
2. Continues to talk past the initial statement in question by bringing up a different point
3. States opinions as facts
4. Random capitalization of words
Oops ... Take an aging QB who has always been immobile and at his worst under pressure, give him an OL like a sieve, and your fan base will solve your problem for you.
Some good points were made, but I can't buy the overall conspiracy theory. This supposes that John Mara is a dupe and I'm not buying that either. He has the ultimate say on whether both those guys are employed by the Giants, so why would they play a game like that with so much at stake?