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Flowers' technique

JFIB : 9/19/2017 1:13 pm
Kill me if this is obvious, but when #74 is pass blocking he back peddles so far back and waits so long to engage that the edge rusher has at least 3 or 4 steps to create momentum. It's not surprising Flowers is bull rushed so often as his man is practically in the pocket before Flowers even makes first contact with him. At this point it is so hard for him to get proper hand placement and he is wildly off balance that there no chance to even slow these guys down. Anyone who knows more about OL technique, please let me know if you are seeing the same thing.

And for the love of god please explain to me why this is so difficult to correct! This OL has regressed badly since Solari was hired and some of the blame has to be placed on him. I think Flowers is just not good enough to be a tackle on either side but I would simply flip him and Pugh and let Flowers play at the LG spot next to Pugh and get coached up working next to each other. I think there is enough ability there to salvage the pick if he gets switched to LG.
Let's not forget  
Eman11 : 9/19/2017 1:17 pm : link
Him dropping his head. Every play he gets beat on he seems to be looking down at the ground. It's unbelievable. What does he expect to see down there?
Everyone says he is strong and nasty.....  
Doomster : 9/19/2017 1:20 pm : link
Have you ever seen him nail a DE and stop him in his tracks?

And you realize that the title of your post is almost the definition of an oxymoron?
He is a terrible NFL player  
Giants86 : 9/19/2017 1:23 pm : link
He needs to be cut. Im tired of watching this week after week.
Unfortunately  
regulator : 9/19/2017 1:25 pm : link
the guy can't play. I don't think a move to RT or OG corrects anything.
A move to RG would actually help  
blueblood : 9/19/2017 1:27 pm : link
because he would be protected inside and he has strength to move people once engaged.. He doesnt have the footwork or the technique required for tackle..
Geoff Schwartz said he has not improved since he was a rookie  
Youtoo : 9/19/2017 1:35 pm : link
Scwartz didnt play much when he was here due to injury, but he was on the team with Flowers. He said his texhnique has not improved. He said no one questions his heart or work ethic. Its basically his telent. Not that many guys who are big enough to play tackle in the NFL also have the talent. I am way too uncoordinated to play tackle.
Fatigue makes cowards of us all  
rdt288 : 9/19/2017 1:41 pm : link
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RE: Let's not forget  
jvm52106 : 9/19/2017 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13606789 Eman11 said:
Quote:
Him dropping his head. Every play he gets beat on he seems to be looking down at the ground. It's unbelievable. What does he expect to see down there?


Its not just that he looks down, he leans forward into the defender with his hands outstretched. When the defender hits his hards down, his hands slide off and his head follows his arms downward. Watch Ansah last night, he slapped Flowers arms down, flowers ahnds slide off and the arms go down and at the same time Flowers's head follows suit.

He is so fundamentally flawed (and even the most novice of observers can see this) that he will never succeed. He does everything wrong that negates his one asset and that is his size. This is so bad he makes Eric Fisher and Luke Joeckel look like Pro Bowlers!
RE: Geoff Schwartz said he has not improved since he was a rookie  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13606849 Youtoo said:
Quote:
Scwartz didnt play much when he was here due to injury, but he was on the team with Flowers. He said his texhnique has not improved. He said no one questions his heart or work ethic. Its basically his telent. Not that many guys who are big enough to play tackle in the NFL also have the talent. I am way too uncoordinated to play tackle.


Schwartz's opinion and $2.50 get you on the subway, that's about it.
Waist bender  
Kyle in NY : 9/19/2017 1:49 pm : link
Good OL need the athleticism and flexibility to bend at the knees and ankles, not the waist.

Waist bending creates a whole host of problems: head goes down which leads to a lot of the poor hand placement and whiffs in general. On Ansah's third sack he's throwing his hands at Ansah's helmet. Which he promptly swatted away as Flowers head dipped. It was embarrassing.

Also leads to poor balance which shows up when he gets bull rushed. He's likely one of the strongest guys on the team in the weight room but he can't properly anchor at his base because he can't bend properly. Combine this with a general lack of foot quickness which leads to him over compensating and rushing out into his set which leads him susceptible to inside rushes, and you've got a mess on your hands.

Thing was, this lack of flexibility showed up on his college tape. Could see it then. Flat out, he is not an OT in the NFL. Lack of flexibility is a problem at any OL position. But at LT, it's a death sentence. They have to bite the bullet and give him some help over there to get through the season. And then make a change in the offseason. It's over.
Next time we select an OT  
jvm52106 : 9/19/2017 1:49 pm : link
in top 10 please do not let his name be Eric.. Eric Moore was 10th pick of RD in 1988 and he couldn't cut it at Tackle either...
Correct me if I am wrong - Flowers did not lose us the Boys game  
Bob in Newburgh : 9/19/2017 1:49 pm : link
If he did not, it appears the desire is to do a complete overhaul based on a game where a specific opponent, who we will not meet again this regular season, totally dominated him.
RE: A move to RG would actually help  
Glover : 9/19/2017 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13606820 blueblood said:
Quote:
because he would be protected inside and he has strength to move people once engaged.. He doesnt have the footwork or the technique required for tackle..


I said this all offseason and most thought the idea ridiculous. I thought/still think, it's his only hope to be a player in the NFL. Gallery was 2nd overall, failed at T, played pretty good at G. Not giving up on an early draft pick is hurting this team.
RE: RE: Geoff Schwartz said he has not improved since he was a rookie  
jvm52106 : 9/19/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13606880 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13606849 Youtoo said:


Quote:


Scwartz didnt play much when he was here due to injury, but he was on the team with Flowers. He said his texhnique has not improved. He said no one questions his heart or work ethic. Its basically his telent. Not that many guys who are big enough to play tackle in the NFL also have the talent. I am way too uncoordinated to play tackle.



Schwartz's opinion and $2.50 get you on the subway, that's about it.


I get what and why you are saying this but honestly he does know how to play and had experience with Flowers. To be honest, if he were healthy right now and available he might be better than the two starters we have. Really sucks we are where we are right now on the Oline.
He doesn't play in balance  
RAIN : 9/19/2017 2:13 pm : link
He is constantly over the front of his feet. His weight is not back and his shoulders are not over his feet.

He needs a complete tear down; He either has something physically different that prevents him from getting in balance, ie the proper pass set, or its stubborness and a mentality that isn't coachable.

Either way, I think we're screwed and I'm not betting he can make the change we need to be an average player. Forget about being above average. Their is no real good outcome here, I fear.
Look I don't have the size or athletic ability  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 9/19/2017 2:31 pm : link
to play tackle but, surely to God, unless I am an idiot, I could be taught half decent technique. At what point do you say this guy is just too stupid to learn. Maybe they should have him tested...maybe there's a learning disability because three years, a high pick, played at a top college and he still doesn't get it.

It has to be something else...maybe it is coaching but surely his teammates have tried to help. Everything I hear and read seems to indicate this is just a guy who does not get it.
What is so hard for you gentlemen to understand ? !!!  
Manny in CA : 9/19/2017 2:55 pm : link

The man doesn't trust his feet, simple as that; so his "technique" looks rotten. all the best intentions and coach will NOT help that
To put it in perspective,  
MOOPS : 9/19/2017 3:14 pm : link
Elaine Benes has better dancing technique than Erick Flowers has tackle technique.

RE: Everyone says he is strong and nasty.....  
Beer Man : 9/19/2017 3:14 pm : link
In comment 13606794 Doomster said:
Quote:
Have you ever seen him nail a DE and stop him in his tracks?

And you realize that the title of your post is almost the definition of an oxymoron?
Yep, watch him in the run game; Flowers has demonstrated many times that he can bury a DE when run blocking.
Geoff Schwatz says ..... pffft  
Ron Johnson : 9/19/2017 4:07 pm : link
why not ask one of the beer vendors
Q- whats the most important part of a racing  
idiotsavant : 9/19/2017 4:17 pm : link
motorcycle?

A- the brakes

For a huge person at OL, BALANCE is your brakes.

In order to hit -forward- with power, you need confidence that you can pull -back- with power.

EF lacks balance.

Its squarely on the staff and scouts that they a) did not see this and b) have not helped him improve his balance.

which -can- be improved by the way.

but, no, right now he is not a guard either.
RE: He doesn't play in balance  
AcesUp : 9/19/2017 4:57 pm : link
In comment 13606957 RAIN said:
Quote:
He is constantly over the front of his feet. His weight is not back and his shoulders are not over his feet.

He needs a complete tear down; He either has something physically different that prevents him from getting in balance, ie the proper pass set, or its stubborness and a mentality that isn't coachable.

Either way, I think we're screwed and I'm not betting he can make the change we need to be an average player. Forget about being above average. Their is no real good outcome here, I fear.


That's what has me confused about his situation, all these things are very correctable. We know that he has worked his ass off this offseason, but has he been doing the right kind of training? Extra time in the weight room doing traditional strength work won't do any good, if anything it will make flexibility issues worse. Extra technique work won't do any good if you don't have the hip and ankle mobility to set a proper base. Do we just have some meathead running our S&C program? Because anybody with even an intermediate understanding exercise and kinesiology would make flexibility and mobility the focal point of his training. As you said, a complete teardown. You want to completely rewire the way he moves and engages his muscles. Once he has these issues sorted he can work on the core muscle imbalances which he's no doubt developed through the years to cause these issues in the first place. Only then would you have the right canvas to even begin working on his technique issues.

This is like notch-above an LA Fitness trainer shit, ask any bro that has fixed a broken squat. For that reason, you have to assume he's getting this type of guidance, but I really don't know.
His consistent technique seems to be to lower his head  
SomeFan : 9/19/2017 5:05 pm : link
allowing defenders to run by him. It appears that he does not have the speed or moves to keep his head up and stay with speed rushers. That is why they have to bench him until he learns to play guard which is a big if on whether he can do that.
The Ray Handley of draft picks.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/19/2017 5:07 pm : link
.
HE allows the DE's to get under his elbows up on his Tricep  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 5:12 pm : link
And topple him backwards by bullrushing. You could see it repeatedly with Flowers arms above the DE helmet. It was ridiculous watching it
If he could have been taught proper technique  
PatersonPlank : 9/19/2017 5:28 pm : link
He would have already. He's in year 3, he's not going to suddenly get it.
RE: RE: Geoff Schwartz said he has not improved since he was a rookie  
gmenatlarge : 9/19/2017 7:46 pm : link
In comment 13606880 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13606849 Youtoo said:


Quote:


Scwartz didnt play much when he was here due to injury, but he was on the team with Flowers. He said his texhnique has not improved. He said no one questions his heart or work ethic. Its basically his telent. Not that many guys who are big enough to play tackle in the NFL also have the talent. I am way too uncoordinated to play tackle.



Schwartz's opinion and $2.50 get you on the subway, that's about it.



No don't listen to a guy who actually played the position in the NFL, BBI knows better!
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