but this could also be a case where Engram needs to sit in a zone, as opposed to continue his route in man-to-man. Between the two of them, I'm going to guess that the QB with 13 years in the league read the defense correctly, and the rookie didn't.
Eli is not going to pass the buck, and he's really not going to give any defense any information, regardless of how common in the league it is.
Why in heavens would you have Engram sit in zone when he's a man to man mismatch guy? Added to the point is if the throw was better and leading him he had opportunity to tack on at least 7-8 yards more after catch, heck maybe even more. There's no way that Engram just made up his route there. It was a crisp cut by him and a crossing pattern.
This. Some of these defenses are mind numbing. He's running his route, which is drag across the middle of the field. He's running full speed, there is zero excuse for that ball being behind him. It would be nearly impossible to turn and catch the ball with two hands, given he wasn't that far up the field so the amount of time to react and adjust is limited.
It has nothing to do with "running fullspeed" or what kind of "mismatch" he is. The above comment suggests that Giants are calling the Lions defense. It does have everything to do with what Engram's (possible) responsibilities on the play are.
If you look at the screencaps, there is an LB or safety to the right of Engram, waiting for Engram to come into his zone. In this case, it quite likely that it is Engram's job to read the defense and stop his route, rather than run into coverage. If Eli and Engram are on the same page, then ball is where it should be because Engram has stopped. This is football 101.
That linebacker starts to drop Eli is locked on and about to throw it to Engram. That linebackers responsibility was likely the flat, and recovered back to pick up Engram once he realized nothing was coming to the flat.
I can't post pictures from mobile but if you pause it from the sideline angle As the ball approaches Engram that linebacker was already turning his back to Eli. Making an interception was unlikely
Just asking you guys to mind meld Bill Parcells here
I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Nah it just shows that every QB in the league throws a pass that's not 100% perfect including Eli. And that pass while not perfect it's not as outrageously bad as some posters claim. How about a freaking player make a play for once on this team? How about not dropping easy passes? How about fighting for one yard for a first down? Make someone miss?
that crap throw. Engram was wide open on a crossing pattern. Eli just missed him, period. No excuses that a 240 lb TE should be able to stop on a dime and make a miraculous catch. It was a short throw with some zip - not enough time to stop.
Simply put, right after the defense makes a great turnover, Eli cannot turn that ball over.
I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.
I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.
So not the dropped 30 yard pass from Marshall, or the holding by Jones at the 1 yard line, or the dropped td pass by Engram, or the 3 sacks given up by Flowers, not the punt return for a TD when only down 7, not the Engram penalty and subsequent kick out of bounds. None of those moments turned the game around? Cmon man.
Eli made a bad throw. One of many over his career. That was not the turning point. If this offense isnt good enough to overcome ONE turnover, then we arent going to have a very long season anyways.
I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.
Call in and complain to them then, i'm sure they will appreciate your strawman point
that Engram is fast and got there quicker than he thought and also flattened out a little more than he thought he would. So basically Eli threw to the open window as you can see in the pictures above and he and the rookie weren't on the same page.
I will always support Eli 100% and never take for granted how he's played in NY for over a decade but I have to say it's on the vet not the rookie on that play.
...but I don't think it was because he was inaccurate. I think if he leads Engram on that play, Whitehead intercepts, so Eli was threading a needle. If true, the mistake was not choosing another receiver but rather trying to force it in.
I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.
So not the dropped 30 yard pass from Marshall, or the holding by Jones at the 1 yard line, or the dropped td pass by Engram, or the 3 sacks given up by Flowers, not the punt return for a TD when only down 7, not the Engram penalty and subsequent kick out of bounds. None of those moments turned the game around? Cmon man.
Eli made a bad throw. One of many over his career. That was not the turning point. If this offense isnt good enough to overcome ONE turnover, then we arent going to have a very long season anyways.
Is it really a stretch to call the INT a turning point in the game?
A team that can't seem to get anything going, has looked like shit dating back to an awful playoff performance last year, is playing a primtetime game at home, come out like dogshit again and has the crowd starting to turn on them a bit. They FINALLY put together a scoring drive to tie the game after a shit first quarter. And they get to the QB, force a fumble, and get the elusive turnover! Here we go! Things are starting to turn! We've got this!
And they throw a fucking interception on the very next play to give it right back.
And it's a scalding hot take that offends your sensibilities to call that the turning point in the game?
RE: That was nice of Engram to bail Eli out like that
but it's behind him, hitting him on one hand when his momentum is carrying him in the other direction. Even OBJ has a hard time coming down with that one.
Keep doubling down.
the int was hurtful, but not critical, just a bad 2Q play.
that Engram is fast and got there quicker than he thought and also flattened out a little more than he thought he would. So basically Eli threw to the open window as you can see in the pictures above and he and the rookie weren't on the same page.
I will always support Eli 100% and never take for granted how he's played in NY for over a decade but I have to say it's on the vet not the rookie on that play.
What if Engram wasn't supposed to have "flattened out" as much as he did, then who is it on? And Eli always blames himself publicly. He'll never throw his receiver under the bus. A veteran TE might've known to slow down and sit in the zone on a play like that. Not knowing the design of the play, it's impossible for any of us to know who was at fault.
You'd think after watching so many Eli interceptions
it's a symptom of a much greater team ill. Once again having one of the very worst OL's in the NFL is wrecking the team. That is not on Eli. That's on the Mara's Bros, Reese and the coaching staff.
I thought the most critical play was Marshall's drop - killed everything going late in the game. Even the punt return hurt more.
With no int, the Giants likely keep moving down the field. In any case, the score is no worse than 7-7 not losing 14-7.
The Marshall drop, while crucial, the Giants were already losing 24-10 with 8:30 left, so chances were not that great they overcome that lead, or not guaranteed.
I thought the most critical play was Marshall's drop - killed everything going late in the game. Even the punt return hurt more.
With no int, the Giants likely keep moving down the field. In any case, the score is no worse than 7-7 not losing 14-7.
The Marshall drop, while crucial, the Giants were already losing 24-10 with 8:30 left, so chances were not that great they overcome that lead, or not guaranteed.
This is a perfect example of why sometimes I think that some of these so called "fans" don't watch the games...
In their zeal to hammer Eli they have no clue as to what actually happened in the game...
sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.
Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.
Why does it often have to be so difficult?
We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )
If we're being objective (and we're not), it's pretty fair to assume if the safest place to throw the ball is behind the receiver, it probably was a bad decision to throw it, no?
Sorry, but Eli is an NFL QB and our highest paid player
It's not a long throw. Put it where it belongs, in front of EE. I see other QBs make this throw - and harder ones - all the time. It was a shit throw for an NFL QB.
Running full speed in one direction it's not very to reach back and catch a ball behind you. It would have been an amazing catch if he got it (and the TD was a pretty damn good catch that Chucky barely mentioned, why was that ball behind him, too)?
Eli is rushing and it's no wonder. But please, if an "NFL WR needs to make that catch" then sure as hell an NFL QB needs to make that throw. Even a throw a bit low or high in front of him is probably caught. But a shorter throw behind him coming across? Very unlikely.
I haven't seen the playbook, so I'm talking out of my ass here
sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.
Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.
Why does it often have to be so difficult?
We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )
LMAO I would love to know why a TD pass that a TE has to jump one foot in the air to make because it has to clear the LB's dropping is such a bad pass...
Seriously it's like some of you have to create a bitch about Eli no matter what
sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.
Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.
Why does it often have to be so difficult?
We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )
LMAO I would love to know why a TD pass that a TE has to jump one foot in the air to make because it has to clear the LB's dropping is such a bad pass...
Seriously it's like some of you have to create a bitch about Eli no matter what
Sure...no matter what. Why don't you ignore the fact that I referenced good passes he made TWICE within the same post. I am pretty careful to create some balance. Want to say that some people bitch "no matter what" that is fine, but not me.
sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.
Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.
Why does it often have to be so difficult?
We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )
LMAO I would love to know why a TD pass that a TE has to jump one foot in the air to make because it has to clear the LB's dropping is such a bad pass...
Seriously it's like some of you have to create a bitch about Eli no matter what
Sure...no matter what. Why don't you ignore the fact that I referenced good passes he made TWICE within the same post. I am pretty careful to create some balance. Want to say that some people bitch "no matter what" that is fine, but not me.
Eric do you honestly believe a pass for a TD that a receiver has to hop a foot in the air for because there is some underneath coverage is a bad pass?
There are two athletes involved in that play is it really that hard to expect one of them to make that catch without trying to nitpick the fact the ball was not 1 foot lower?
RE: Sorry, but Eli is an NFL QB and our highest paid player
It's not a long throw. Put it where it belongs, in front of EE. I see other QBs make this throw - and harder ones - all the time. It was a shit throw for an NFL QB.
Running full speed in one direction it's not very to reach back and catch a ball behind you. It would have been an amazing catch if he got it (and the TD was a pretty damn good catch that Chucky barely mentioned, why was that ball behind him, too)?
Eli is rushing and it's no wonder. But please, if an "NFL WR needs to make that catch" then sure as hell an NFL QB needs to make that throw. Even a throw a bit low or high in front of him is probably caught. But a shorter throw behind him coming across? Very unlikely.
Shorter throw? The ball was face mask level. If the ball is literally thrown one foot in front of the receiver it's a perfect pass. That was a pass that I see skilled receivers adjust to all the time and make a play. But because Engram didn't and it led to a turnover, it's a horrible pass. Textbook results oriented analysis.
I think a lot of the critics on this board watch the Giants but only see highlights of the other QBs around the league -- hence the inflated perception of the top QBs around the league.
If Eli sailed it over Engram's head or threw it at his shins then yea, it'd be a bad pass. Odds are those throws wouldn't have resulted in picks and this wouldn't even be a topic today.
has consistently had trouble hitting receivers in stride throughout his career, often behind or high(thus the tipped picks), so even if the ball is caught, by the time the received gets back in stride the D has caught up and the gain isn't nearly what it might have been.
He did the same thing to Vereen on the swing pass that went for 8-9and not 30.
I'm often an Eli apologist, but that was on him.
RE: Sorry, but Eli is an NFL QB and our highest paid player
It's not a long throw. Put it where it belongs, in front of EE. I see other QBs make this throw - and harder ones - all the time. It was a shit throw for an NFL QB.
Running full speed in one direction it's not very to reach back and catch a ball behind you. It would have been an amazing catch if he got it (and the TD was a pretty damn good catch that Chucky barely mentioned, why was that ball behind him, too)?
Eli is rushing and it's no wonder. But please, if an "NFL WR needs to make that catch" then sure as hell an NFL QB needs to make that throw. Even a throw a bit low or high in front of him is probably caught. But a shorter throw behind him coming across? Very unlikely.
in coverage. He gets wide open on a crossing route and we now want him to stop, sit in the zone to catch passes and seemingly take away that obvious advantage??
it was a bad pass...
BTW- bad passes happen. On good teams they are just plays. On bad teams they are big plays.
Wasnt a great throw it was behind him and the kid made a good catch and he was wide open !!
I'm gonna play devils advocate here. But on the TD pass I think Engram may have drifted in his route. He starts slightly outside the hash marks, is on the hashmarks when eli throws and is slightly inside the hashmarks when he catches it. The ball is pretty much thrown to the hashmarks.
I don't know the specific route he was supposed to run, but it looks like Eli expected him to continue straight up the field.
Now he is a rookie, so route errors are not unexpected. Especially looking back to the QB, wide open, for his first TD.
He caught the ball so all is well, but looking at the play I wouldn't be surprised if he drifted inside a bit too much.
so what it happens in every game you will watch with every QB. No QB throws it perfectly every time. It was unlucky that the ball bounced straight up and was picked.
Time to move on, this thread is nuts. It was one play. If we were a decent team we'd have 50 or so more plays.
RE: Again, all QB's throw bad passes. Eli threw it behind him,
so what it happens in every game you will watch with every QB. No QB throws it perfectly every time. It was unlucky that the ball bounced straight up and was picked.
Time to move on, this thread is nuts. It was one play. If we were a decent team we'd have 50 or so more plays.
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In comment 13607180 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 13607160 mikeinbloomfield said:
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but this could also be a case where Engram needs to sit in a zone, as opposed to continue his route in man-to-man. Between the two of them, I'm going to guess that the QB with 13 years in the league read the defense correctly, and the rookie didn't.
Eli is not going to pass the buck, and he's really not going to give any defense any information, regardless of how common in the league it is.
Why in heavens would you have Engram sit in zone when he's a man to man mismatch guy? Added to the point is if the throw was better and leading him he had opportunity to tack on at least 7-8 yards more after catch, heck maybe even more. There's no way that Engram just made up his route there. It was a crisp cut by him and a crossing pattern.
This. Some of these defenses are mind numbing. He's running his route, which is drag across the middle of the field. He's running full speed, there is zero excuse for that ball being behind him. It would be nearly impossible to turn and catch the ball with two hands, given he wasn't that far up the field so the amount of time to react and adjust is limited.
It has nothing to do with "running fullspeed" or what kind of "mismatch" he is. The above comment suggests that Giants are calling the Lions defense. It does have everything to do with what Engram's (possible) responsibilities on the play are.
If you look at the screencaps, there is an LB or safety to the right of Engram, waiting for Engram to come into his zone. In this case, it quite likely that it is Engram's job to read the defense and stop his route, rather than run into coverage. If Eli and Engram are on the same page, then ball is where it should be because Engram has stopped. This is football 101.
That linebacker starts to drop Eli is locked on and about to throw it to Engram. That linebackers responsibility was likely the flat, and recovered back to pick up Engram once he realized nothing was coming to the flat.
I can't post pictures from mobile but if you pause it from the sideline angle As the ball approaches Engram that linebacker was already turning his back to Eli. Making an interception was unlikely
Run 6x and kick field goal.
Given the way the OL is pass protecting here, and the risks that creates in terms of INTs and Injuries.
prevent 7...gain 3, that's a 10pt swing, and ....running eats the clock.
D is rested instead of deflated, you save your season here.
Nah it just shows that every QB in the league throws a pass that's not 100% perfect including Eli. And that pass while not perfect it's not as outrageously bad as some posters claim. How about a freaking player make a play for once on this team? How about not dropping easy passes? How about fighting for one yard for a first down? Make someone miss?
Simply put, right after the defense makes a great turnover, Eli cannot turn that ball over.
Or act like they know for a fact what he's supposed to do on that route against that particular defense.
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
Eli Manning said on INT Evan Engram is so fast he came out "a little flatter than I anticipated. I got to make a better throw there.''
That's ok. Opinions are like....we all have one. (even if wrong)
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I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.
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In comment 13607317 christian said:
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I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.
So not the dropped 30 yard pass from Marshall, or the holding by Jones at the 1 yard line, or the dropped td pass by Engram, or the 3 sacks given up by Flowers, not the punt return for a TD when only down 7, not the Engram penalty and subsequent kick out of bounds. None of those moments turned the game around? Cmon man.
Eli made a bad throw. One of many over his career. That was not the turning point. If this offense isnt good enough to overcome ONE turnover, then we arent going to have a very long season anyways.
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In comment 13607317 christian said:
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I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.
Call in and complain to them then, i'm sure they will appreciate your strawman point
I will always support Eli 100% and never take for granted how he's played in NY for over a decade but I have to say it's on the vet not the rookie on that play.
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In comment 13607464 montanagiant said:
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In comment 13607317 christian said:
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I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.
So not the dropped 30 yard pass from Marshall, or the holding by Jones at the 1 yard line, or the dropped td pass by Engram, or the 3 sacks given up by Flowers, not the punt return for a TD when only down 7, not the Engram penalty and subsequent kick out of bounds. None of those moments turned the game around? Cmon man.
Eli made a bad throw. One of many over his career. That was not the turning point. If this offense isnt good enough to overcome ONE turnover, then we arent going to have a very long season anyways.
Is it really a stretch to call the INT a turning point in the game?
A team that can't seem to get anything going, has looked like shit dating back to an awful playoff performance last year, is playing a primtetime game at home, come out like dogshit again and has the crowd starting to turn on them a bit. They FINALLY put together a scoring drive to tie the game after a shit first quarter. And they get to the QB, force a fumble, and get the elusive turnover! Here we go! Things are starting to turn! We've got this!
And they throw a fucking interception on the very next play to give it right back.
And it's a scalding hot take that offends your sensibilities to call that the turning point in the game?
Keep doubling down.
I will always support Eli 100% and never take for granted how he's played in NY for over a decade but I have to say it's on the vet not the rookie on that play.
Some of them are his fault. It is okay to acknowledge bad throws.
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I want to continue. Sorry buddy.
That's ok. Opinions are like....we all have one. (even if wrong)
Yup. It must suck to know when you're wrong but can't let it go. Sorry about that buddy but live w it.
With no int, the Giants likely keep moving down the field. In any case, the score is no worse than 7-7 not losing 14-7.
The Marshall drop, while crucial, the Giants were already losing 24-10 with 8:30 left, so chances were not that great they overcome that lead, or not guaranteed.
Exactly. Catch would have put them in Lions territory down by 7. Good potential to tie the game.
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I thought the most critical play was Marshall's drop - killed everything going late in the game. Even the punt return hurt more.
With no int, the Giants likely keep moving down the field. In any case, the score is no worse than 7-7 not losing 14-7.
The Marshall drop, while crucial, the Giants were already losing 24-10 with 8:30 left, so chances were not that great they overcome that lead, or not guaranteed.
This is a perfect example of why sometimes I think that some of these so called "fans" don't watch the games...
In their zeal to hammer Eli they have no clue as to what actually happened in the game...
Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.
Why does it often have to be so difficult?
We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped.
Engram TD - ( New Window )
QBs make the same type of throws all the time every week. The only reason it's a hot button topic is because of bad luck.
Running full speed in one direction it's not very to reach back and catch a ball behind you. It would have been an amazing catch if he got it (and the TD was a pretty damn good catch that Chucky barely mentioned, why was that ball behind him, too)?
Eli is rushing and it's no wonder. But please, if an "NFL WR needs to make that catch" then sure as hell an NFL QB needs to make that throw. Even a throw a bit low or high in front of him is probably caught. But a shorter throw behind him coming across? Very unlikely.
Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.
Why does it often have to be so difficult?
We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )
LMAO I would love to know why a TD pass that a TE has to jump one foot in the air to make because it has to clear the LB's dropping is such a bad pass...
Seriously it's like some of you have to create a bitch about Eli no matter what
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sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.
Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.
Why does it often have to be so difficult?
We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )
LMAO I would love to know why a TD pass that a TE has to jump one foot in the air to make because it has to clear the LB's dropping is such a bad pass...
Seriously it's like some of you have to create a bitch about Eli no matter what
Sure...no matter what. Why don't you ignore the fact that I referenced good passes he made TWICE within the same post. I am pretty careful to create some balance. Want to say that some people bitch "no matter what" that is fine, but not me.
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In comment 13607731 EricJ said:
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sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.
Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.
Why does it often have to be so difficult?
We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )
LMAO I would love to know why a TD pass that a TE has to jump one foot in the air to make because it has to clear the LB's dropping is such a bad pass...
Seriously it's like some of you have to create a bitch about Eli no matter what
Sure...no matter what. Why don't you ignore the fact that I referenced good passes he made TWICE within the same post. I am pretty careful to create some balance. Want to say that some people bitch "no matter what" that is fine, but not me.
There are two athletes involved in that play is it really that hard to expect one of them to make that catch without trying to nitpick the fact the ball was not 1 foot lower?
Running full speed in one direction it's not very to reach back and catch a ball behind you. It would have been an amazing catch if he got it (and the TD was a pretty damn good catch that Chucky barely mentioned, why was that ball behind him, too)?
Eli is rushing and it's no wonder. But please, if an "NFL WR needs to make that catch" then sure as hell an NFL QB needs to make that throw. Even a throw a bit low or high in front of him is probably caught. But a shorter throw behind him coming across? Very unlikely.
Shorter throw? The ball was face mask level. If the ball is literally thrown one foot in front of the receiver it's a perfect pass. That was a pass that I see skilled receivers adjust to all the time and make a play. But because Engram didn't and it led to a turnover, it's a horrible pass. Textbook results oriented analysis.
I think a lot of the critics on this board watch the Giants but only see highlights of the other QBs around the league -- hence the inflated perception of the top QBs around the league.
If Eli sailed it over Engram's head or threw it at his shins then yea, it'd be a bad pass. Odds are those throws wouldn't have resulted in picks and this wouldn't even be a topic today.
He did the same thing to Vereen on the swing pass that went for 8-9and not 30.
I'm often an Eli apologist, but that was on him.
Running full speed in one direction it's not very to reach back and catch a ball behind you. It would have been an amazing catch if he got it (and the TD was a pretty damn good catch that Chucky barely mentioned, why was that ball behind him, too)?
Eli is rushing and it's no wonder. But please, if an "NFL WR needs to make that catch" then sure as hell an NFL QB needs to make that throw. Even a throw a bit low or high in front of him is probably caught. But a shorter throw behind him coming across? Very unlikely.
Next
it was a bad pass...
BTW- bad passes happen. On good teams they are just plays. On bad teams they are big plays.
I'm gonna play devils advocate here. But on the TD pass I think Engram may have drifted in his route. He starts slightly outside the hash marks, is on the hashmarks when eli throws and is slightly inside the hashmarks when he catches it. The ball is pretty much thrown to the hashmarks.
I don't know the specific route he was supposed to run, but it looks like Eli expected him to continue straight up the field.
Now he is a rookie, so route errors are not unexpected. Especially looking back to the QB, wide open, for his first TD.
He caught the ball so all is well, but looking at the play I wouldn't be surprised if he drifted inside a bit too much.
Or perhaps Eli just made a bad pass.....
Time to move on, this thread is nuts. It was one play. If we were a decent team we'd have 50 or so more plays.
Time to move on, this thread is nuts. It was one play. If we were a decent team we'd have 50 or so more plays.
Agreed.