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Eli's horrible throw and INT

Britt in VA : 9/19/2017 3:12 pm
three stills and a video, presented without commentary.





Link - ( New Window )
The throw wasn't great  
BlackLight : 9/19/2017 3:15 pm : link
but watching it at the time, I thought Engram should've made more of an effort to try catching it with 2 hands. It wasn't *that* far behind him.
I was in the far endzone....  
BillKo : 9/19/2017 3:15 pm : link
and was watching thru binoculars....throw was definitely behind a bit, he needs to obviously hit that.

But, to say that was the turning point of the game - 2nd quarter - is crazy.

If turning points are going to be every time we get down 7 or 10 points, it's going to be a truly sucky year!! LOL


I just watched the video and did the same thing  
Giants in 07 : 9/19/2017 3:16 pm : link
before seeing this thread.

I had to go back because from some comments you would think the ball was so much behind Engram.

That's a catchable ball. Thought it was catchable when I saw it live. Still do. Engram's arm isn't even extended when he makes contact with the ball
From that, this is what I see,  
Thats Gold, Jerry : 9/19/2017 3:16 pm : link
Engram should have eased up and caught the ball instead of trying to one hand it. He had clear vision of it and could have slowed his route a bit.
You really can't go two hands.....  
BillKo : 9/19/2017 3:17 pm : link
but you can try to turn your body back a bit.

It looked to be our young TE kept running and just stuck his hand out......

Similar to Marshall on his crossing route instead of laying out for it.
it was catchable, he didnt lead him.  
mattlawson : 9/19/2017 3:17 pm : link
and you can see immediately he's getting ready to absorb contact from the defender that got by the OL and Perkins.

He shortened up to get the ball out - bad throw, missed connection that went for an INT because of shit blocking. same ol story
Problem was Engram was running full speed  
jlukes : 9/19/2017 3:18 pm : link
it's not like he was sitting down in a zone waiting for a ball and lazily reached up. Still's dont do the play justice.

It was a poor throw. period
RE: Problem was Engram was running full speed  
Britt in VA : 9/19/2017 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13607127 jlukes said:
Quote:
it's not like he was sitting down in a zone waiting for a ball and lazily reached up. Still's dont do the play justice.

It was a poor throw. period


There is also a video linked from the same angle.
Wasn't a perfect throw ...  
Beer Man : 9/19/2017 3:19 pm : link
But I thought it was catch-able, and Engram should have used both hands. Engram had his first TD, and a couple of other catches, but he made some classic rookie mistakes, had a couple drops, and cost the team with the boneheaded grabbing of his crotch after the TD
RE: Problem was Engram was running full speed  
Section331 : 9/19/2017 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13607127 jlukes said:
Quote:
it's not like he was sitting down in a zone waiting for a ball and lazily reached up. Still's dont do the play justice.

It was a poor throw. period


It wasn't that bad a throw. Engram saw the ball the entire way, there was no reason to go after it with one hand.
RE: Wasn't a perfect throw ...  
Section331 : 9/19/2017 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13607130 Beer Man said:
Quote:
But I thought it was catch-able, and Engram should have used both hands. Engram had his first TD, and a couple of other catches, but he made some classic rookie mistakes, had a couple drops, and cost the team with the boneheaded grabbing of his crotch after the TD


Yes, I would argue the TD throw was a worse throw than the INT.
Too many receivers  
Stufftherun : 9/19/2017 3:22 pm : link
are enamored with the idea of making a one handed highlight catch rather than just doing all they can to secure the ball.
No commentary here either.  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 3:22 pm : link
Quote:

Q: What happened on your interception?

A: Cant afford it. The ball was a little behind Evan. So, weve got to look at it and Ive got it put it in front of him and give him a chance to run, or move on to my next progression.
RE: No commentary here either.  
Britt in VA : 9/19/2017 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13607142 jcn56 said:
Quote:


Quote:



Q: What happened on your interception?

A: Cant afford it. The ball was a little behind Evan. So, weve got to look at it and Ive got it put it in front of him and give him a chance to run, or move on to my next progression.



Quote:
"That was on me," Engram said. "That was frustrating. We were in good position to go down and gain some momentum. Just a bad play. Defense fights really hard for us to get in good position, and we've got to capitalize better. That play was on me. It was just unfortunate."

"No matter what, if the ball touches my hands, I've got to come down with it," Engram said.
RE: RE: Wasn't a perfect throw ...  
BlackLight : 9/19/2017 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13607136 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607130 Beer Man said:


Quote:


But I thought it was catch-able, and Engram should have used both hands. Engram had his first TD, and a couple of other catches, but he made some classic rookie mistakes, had a couple drops, and cost the team with the boneheaded grabbing of his crotch after the TD



Yes, I would argue the TD throw was a worse throw than the INT.


I'd agree with this too.
That was nice of Engram to bail Eli out like that  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 3:26 pm : link
but it's behind him, hitting him on one hand when his momentum is carrying him in the other direction. Even OBJ has a hard time coming down with that one.
Ridiculous  
Sammo85 : 9/19/2017 3:26 pm : link
It was a bad throw and it's on Eli. I'm sick and tired of the apologists on this board killing the receivers nonstop. On clear body drops, kill away. But it's clear Eli has a healthy share of terrible throws and he's always had them unfortunately.

There was no coverage towards the sideline. A QB had to recognize and lead the receiver with the throw. Not throw it off to the backside.

It was a bad throw borne from a poor read and bad timing in his release.

Eli may have taken responsibility  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/19/2017 3:27 pm : link
but this could also be a case where Engram needs to sit in a zone, as opposed to continue his route in man-to-man. Between the two of them, I'm going to guess that the QB with 13 years in the league read the defense correctly, and the rookie didn't.

Eli is not going to pass the buck, and he's really not going to give any defense any information, regardless of how common in the league it is.
it would  
Les in TO : 9/19/2017 3:27 pm : link
have been an excellent/high difficulty catch but that's on Elijah.
I call that INT on Engram.  
SeanLandeta : 9/19/2017 3:27 pm : link
If the QB throws you a catchable ball and you are in the NFL, you catch it. Eli's under duress (again) and that made the throw inaccurate. The inaccurate throw could be blamed for a lack of YAC (as happened last week with Shep). However, sufficient effort by Engram to catch the ball was not there and what little effort he did make only made the INT easier. Learning time for the kid.
RE: That was nice of Engram to bail Eli out like that  
Britt in VA : 9/19/2017 3:29 pm : link
In comment 13607153 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but it's behind him, hitting him on one hand when his momentum is carrying him in the other direction. Even OBJ has a hard time coming down with that one.


Haha, okay. And Eli NEVER takes the blame for stuff that isn't his fault, so we must take HIS explanation at face value, because that's what you want to believe.

I'm sure Eli does wish he'd put it about a foot or so more to the right. Doesn't mean it's the throw that a lot of people made it out to be last night and through this morning.

It was a catchable ball. OBJ couldn't make that catch!? Now you're really reaching!
it was behind the receiver and a bad pass  
AnnapolisMike : 9/19/2017 3:30 pm : link
Was it catchable...maybe. But it would have been a really good catch if made. I thought the QB was supposed to lead the receiver?

RE: From that, this is what I see,  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13607119 Thats Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
Engram should have eased up and caught the ball instead of trying to one hand it. He had clear vision of it and could have slowed his route a bit.

Yup he should have identified that where that ball was thrown was the soft spot in that zone. He's a rookie so it's understandable, but leading him put that ball in much more of a INT opportunity by the dropping LB
RE: Eli may have taken responsibility  
Sammo85 : 9/19/2017 3:32 pm : link
In comment 13607160 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
but this could also be a case where Engram needs to sit in a zone, as opposed to continue his route in man-to-man. Between the two of them, I'm going to guess that the QB with 13 years in the league read the defense correctly, and the rookie didn't.

Eli is not going to pass the buck, and he's really not going to give any defense any information, regardless of how common in the league it is.


Why in heavens would you have Engram sit in zone when he's a man to man mismatch guy? Added to the point is if the throw was better and leading him he had opportunity to tack on at least 7-8 yards more after catch, heck maybe even more. There's no way that Engram just made up his route there. It was a crisp cut by him and a crossing pattern.
RE: RE: From that, this is what I see,  
Sammo85 : 9/19/2017 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13607176 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13607119 Thats Gold, Jerry said:


Quote:


Engram should have eased up and caught the ball instead of trying to one hand it. He had clear vision of it and could have slowed his route a bit.


Yup he should have identified that where that ball was thrown was the soft spot in that zone. He's a rookie so it's understandable, but leading him put that ball in much more of a INT opportunity by the dropping LB


He didn't lead him with the throw. That's the whole point.
I was in the near endzone upper tier.  
jsuds : 9/19/2017 3:34 pm : link
The throw was far enough behind Engram to make it a very difficult catch. It is what we have come to expect of Odell but not sure Engram is (or ever will be) there. Not saying Eli can't get it done still but he definitely could have made a better throw than he did. If Engram doesn't tip it up it might not end up a pick.
Britt  
NorwoodWideRight : 9/19/2017 3:34 pm : link
I'm really surprised by you. You always seemed so levelheaded. That throw is behind Engram. It's over his back shoulder. There's hardly any way, with momentum, he can turn and catch that ball in space. I'm not buying it.
RE: RE: That was nice of Engram to bail Eli out like that  
jcn56 : 9/19/2017 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13607170 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13607153 jcn56 said:


Quote:


but it's behind him, hitting him on one hand when his momentum is carrying him in the other direction. Even OBJ has a hard time coming down with that one.



Haha, okay. And Eli NEVER takes the blame for stuff that isn't his fault, so we must take HIS explanation at face value, because that's what you want to believe.

I'm sure Eli does wish he'd put it about a foot or so more to the right. Doesn't mean it's the throw that a lot of people made it out to be last night and through this morning.

It was a catchable ball. OBJ couldn't make that catch!? Now you're really reaching!


Boy you'd expect a teacher to have some reading comprehension - I said he'd have a hard time with it.

And he'd make it because he's OBJ, the one handed grab master. The ball is behind Engram, he's moving full speed in the other direction, and barely gets one hand on it. But because Eli can do no wrong to some of you, clearly, it couldn't have POSSIBLY been his doing.

You guys are pathetic. Eli's a two time SB winner and MVP, he doesn't need smear campaigns against other players to help him out at this point.
Eli Manning, noble and holy creature  
Greg from LI : 9/19/2017 3:36 pm : link
Entirely without blame, for anything, ever.
Eli throwing a ball 'alittle behind' a WR/TE.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/19/2017 3:36 pm : link
Never seen that before.
I'm not going to go as far as to say he should have caught it....  
Giantfan in skinland : 9/19/2017 3:37 pm : link
but that should have been two hands going at the ball, which likely prevents it from bouncing right to the defender.

You can see from the video that he has two hands up and deliberately puts one down and one up. My initial reaction was that it was a very lazy catch attempt. Video confirms that. That said, it's a lazy attempt at a poorly thrown ball. It's the combo that leads to the turnover, So I actually agree with both of them.
RE: RE: Eli may have taken responsibility  
ajr2456 : 9/19/2017 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13607180 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607160 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


but this could also be a case where Engram needs to sit in a zone, as opposed to continue his route in man-to-man. Between the two of them, I'm going to guess that the QB with 13 years in the league read the defense correctly, and the rookie didn't.

Eli is not going to pass the buck, and he's really not going to give any defense any information, regardless of how common in the league it is.



Why in heavens would you have Engram sit in zone when he's a man to man mismatch guy? Added to the point is if the throw was better and leading him he had opportunity to tack on at least 7-8 yards more after catch, heck maybe even more. There's no way that Engram just made up his route there. It was a crisp cut by him and a crossing pattern.


This. Some of these defenses are mind numbing. He's running his route, which is drag across the middle of the field. He's running full speed, there is zero excuse for that ball being behind him. It would be nearly impossible to turn and catch the ball with two hands, given he wasn't that far up the field so the amount of time to react and adjust is limited.
i dont know how anyone can  
Mighty : 9/19/2017 3:38 pm : link
watch that and think Eli should have led him. If he leads him thats an even easier interception by the dropping LB. The problem with the throw is that Eli should have put the throw lower more into the gut. Also Engram needs to realize the LB is dropping and ease up on his route.
...  
christian : 9/19/2017 3:39 pm : link
Sounds like 2 accountable players who want to do better.

But does anyone really believe that was a good throw?
The problem is that some here don't know what they are watching  
Giants in 07 : 9/19/2017 3:39 pm : link
The TD pass was a great throw, as he had to get it over the head of the MLB in coverage. He threw it almost perfectly.

RE: RE: Problem was Engram was running full speed  
jlukes : 9/19/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13607128 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13607127 jlukes said:


Quote:


it's not like he was sitting down in a zone waiting for a ball and lazily reached up. Still's dont do the play justice.

It was a poor throw. period



There is also a video linked from the same angle.


And the video shows exactly how fast Engram was running and how manipulating his body in order to somehow catch that ball was virtually impossible.
RE: ...  
Giants in 07 : 9/19/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13607208 christian said:
Quote:
Sounds like 2 accountable players who want to do better.

But does anyone really believe that was a good throw?


Nobody said it was a good throw. But it wasn't a horrible throw and it's certainly a catchable ball. Both can be true.
RE: i dont know how anyone can  
Sammo85 : 9/19/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13607205 Mighty said:
Quote:
watch that and think Eli should have led him. If he leads him thats an even easier interception by the dropping LB. The problem with the throw is that Eli should have put the throw lower more into the gut. Also Engram needs to realize the LB is dropping and ease up on his route.


Clearly you were watching a different game. There was no threat of INT if he lead him earlier in the route towards the sideline. Come on people. This isn't rocket science.
Not a great throw  
Keith : 9/19/2017 3:41 pm : link
as Engram was just coming open in a zone between two defenders and the throw was clearly behind him, but also a ball that you'd hope he catches. Engram is a physical freak and could have caught that ball, but it's gotta be thrown better. Unfortunately, we need Eli to be perfect and he's been far from it so far.
Look at Eli's Feet  
Jim in South Florida : 9/19/2017 3:43 pm : link
There is a defender at his feet , he had to relase the ball flat footed, thats why it did not have the zip it need to lead the receiver.
Maybe, he should have thrown it away, he's not A. Rogers
RE: RE: i dont know how anyone can  
Mighty : 9/19/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13607215 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607205 Mighty said:


Quote:


watch that and think Eli should have led him. If he leads him thats an even easier interception by the dropping LB. The problem with the throw is that Eli should have put the throw lower more into the gut. Also Engram needs to realize the LB is dropping and ease up on his route.



Clearly you were watching a different game. There was no threat of INT if he lead him earlier in the route towards the sideline. Come on people. This isn't rocket science.


Clearly you didnt look at the video that the OP went as far as to link in the post. There is a LB dropping into zone right where Engram is headed.
given the tenor and momentum of that game  
idiotsavant : 9/19/2017 3:45 pm : link
the sack fumble and recovery at that moment was heroics (within sports context) of the highest order.

That sort of stuff is - why and what for - many of us became fans in the 1980s, momentum reversing heroic impossible plays.

Given that, and the Parcels wisdom to remember that even a 3pt field goal there is probably really representing a 10pt swing, as you just stopped a probably scoring drive....

I was yelling 'run it, run it, run it' there.

In addition, the state of the OL makes any pass an injury risk to WRs and the QB, in addition the same factor causes INTs.

In addition, establish runs there and you create play action on the next series,

...with the game now closer with your 3 or 10pt 'swing' in total.

In addition, establish runs there you therefore change the season.

one more note- darkwa not perkins.
RE: Problem was Engram was running full speed  
DCPollaro : 9/19/2017 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13607127 jlukes said:
Quote:
it's not like he was sitting down in a zone waiting for a ball and lazily reached up. Still's dont do the play justice.

It was a poor throw. period



1000% agree. engram was running so fast i dont think he could have just stopped to get 2 hands on it. Eli has to do better.
Commentary.  
GiantFilthy : 9/19/2017 3:46 pm : link
It was a bad throw and possibly catchable.
Mighty,  
Keith : 9/19/2017 3:47 pm : link
what if he throws it to the same spot a split second earlier, would that work?
RE: RE: RE: i dont know how anyone can  
jlukes : 9/19/2017 3:47 pm : link
In comment 13607226 Mighty said:
Quote:
In comment 13607215 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 13607205 Mighty said:


Quote:


watch that and think Eli should have led him. If he leads him thats an even easier interception by the dropping LB. The problem with the throw is that Eli should have put the throw lower more into the gut. Also Engram needs to realize the LB is dropping and ease up on his route.



Clearly you were watching a different game. There was no threat of INT if he lead him earlier in the route towards the sideline. Come on people. This isn't rocket science.



Clearly you didnt look at the video that the OP went as far as to link in the post. There is a LB dropping into zone right where Engram is headed.


He only had to change the target of his pass by like 3 feet. Still nowhere near the dropping linebacker.
RE: RE: RE: i dont know how anyone can  
Sammo85 : 9/19/2017 3:49 pm : link
In comment 13607226 Mighty said:
Quote:
In comment 13607215 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 13607205 Mighty said:


Quote:


watch that and think Eli should have led him. If he leads him thats an even easier interception by the dropping LB. The problem with the throw is that Eli should have put the throw lower more into the gut. Also Engram needs to realize the LB is dropping and ease up on his route.



Clearly you were watching a different game. There was no threat of INT if he lead him earlier in the route towards the sideline. Come on people. This isn't rocket science.



Clearly you didnt look at the video that the OP went as far as to link in the post. There is a LB dropping into zone right where Engram is headed.


Utter. Nonsense. They showed an overhead view of the play multiple times last night. Engram had found sufficient space between defenders. He did his job and he timed his route perfectly.

I just watched the play six times over and over again now. Engram had done his job and the defenders were far enough away for Engram to work the catch and gain yardage.

Eli blew it.





Christ  
gmen9892 : 9/19/2017 3:49 pm : link
Are we really going to kill the QB for every bad throw he makes this year? This shit is unbelievable. He made a few bad throws in the game, and this one cost him an INT. It literally happens to EVERY QB in the league save for maybe 2-3. This board is becoming unbearable.
Surprised none of the  
moaltch : 9/19/2017 3:50 pm : link
apologists blamed Reuben Randle for running the wrong route on the play. How about our 20 million dollar man making an accurate throw on what basically was a pitch and catch. Come on.
RE: RE: RE: From that, this is what I see,  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13607186 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607176 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13607119 Thats Gold, Jerry said:


Quote:


Engram should have eased up and caught the ball instead of trying to one hand it. He had clear vision of it and could have slowed his route a bit.


Yup he should have identified that where that ball was thrown was the soft spot in that zone. He's a rookie so it's understandable, but leading him put that ball in much more of a INT opportunity by the dropping LB



He didn't lead him with the throw. That's the whole point.

LOL..I know that was why I mentioned it, if he had the LB was in a great spot for a INT.
RE: Mighty,  
Mighty : 9/19/2017 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13607240 Keith said:
Quote:
what if he throws it to the same spot a split second earlier, would that work?


Possible but i dont think so. The MLB was standing there and only moves when Smith crosses his face which is about the time Eli starts his throwing motion. If he started his throwing motion sooner the MLB would react to the throw rather than the FB
RE: Surprised none of the  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13607254 moaltch said:
Quote:
apologists blamed Reuben Randle for running the wrong route on the play. How about our 20 million dollar man making an accurate throw on what basically was a pitch and catch. Come on.

I saw two 30 yard plus throws that were perfect get dropped.
RE: RE: RE: Eli may have taken responsibility  
mikeinbloomfield : 9/19/2017 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13607202 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607180 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 13607160 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


but this could also be a case where Engram needs to sit in a zone, as opposed to continue his route in man-to-man. Between the two of them, I'm going to guess that the QB with 13 years in the league read the defense correctly, and the rookie didn't.

Eli is not going to pass the buck, and he's really not going to give any defense any information, regardless of how common in the league it is.



Why in heavens would you have Engram sit in zone when he's a man to man mismatch guy? Added to the point is if the throw was better and leading him he had opportunity to tack on at least 7-8 yards more after catch, heck maybe even more. There's no way that Engram just made up his route there. It was a crisp cut by him and a crossing pattern.



This. Some of these defenses are mind numbing. He's running his route, which is drag across the middle of the field. He's running full speed, there is zero excuse for that ball being behind him. It would be nearly impossible to turn and catch the ball with two hands, given he wasn't that far up the field so the amount of time to react and adjust is limited.


It has nothing to do with "running fullspeed" or what kind of "mismatch" he is. The above comment suggests that Giants are calling the Lions defense. It does have everything to do with what Engram's (possible) responsibilities on the play are.

If you look at the screencaps, there is an LB or safety to the right of Engram, waiting for Engram to come into his zone. In this case, it quite likely that it is Engram's job to read the defense and stop his route, rather than run into coverage. If Eli and Engram are on the same page, then ball is where it should be because Engram has stopped. This is football 101.
It was behind  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/19/2017 3:53 pm : link
Engram.
Engram I would have ripped him  
Bluesbreaker : 9/19/2017 3:54 pm : link
for that stupid crude jester 10 cent head .
Yes it was a bad pass the guy on the right looked as if he was breaking free and the other guy ended up at his feet .
This hurt but did not decide the game .
RE: Look at Eli's Feet  
mattlawson : 9/19/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13607225 Jim in South Florida said:
[quote] There is a defender at his feet , he had to relase the ball flat footed, thats why it did not have the zip it need to lead the receiver.
Maybe, he should have thrown it away, he's not A. Rogers [/quote

Not throw it away - just slightly ahead. But essentially my point. He has David Carr syndrome now
RE: RE: RE: RE: i dont know how anyone can  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13607244 jlukes said:
Quote:
In comment 13607226 Mighty said:


Quote:


In comment 13607215 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 13607205 Mighty said:


Quote:


watch that and think Eli should have led him. If he leads him thats an even easier interception by the dropping LB. The problem with the throw is that Eli should have put the throw lower more into the gut. Also Engram needs to realize the LB is dropping and ease up on his route.



Clearly you were watching a different game. There was no threat of INT if he lead him earlier in the route towards the sideline. Come on people. This isn't rocket science.



Clearly you didnt look at the video that the OP went as far as to link in the post. There is a LB dropping into zone right where Engram is headed.



He only had to change the target of his pass by like 3 feet. Still nowhere near the dropping linebacker.
I agree with this point, I would not say 3 feet though maybe 2 at most. It would make it a more catchable ball. But this is what you get when a QB and a receiver have such limited time working together as these two do
pause the linked video  
Mighty : 9/19/2017 3:55 pm : link
at the 3 second mark and tell me where other than right into his gut Eli could have safely put that pass. He couldnt lead him anywhere. He should have put that pass low between the defenders instead of high. but there is no leading when you have a defender dropping into a zone in front of you
RE: pause the linked video  
Sammo85 : 9/19/2017 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13607281 Mighty said:
Quote:
at the 3 second mark and tell me where other than right into his gut Eli could have safely put that pass. He couldnt lead him anywhere. He should have put that pass low between the defenders instead of high. but there is no leading when you have a defender dropping into a zone in front of you


He had ample space to lead him. You're overstating and misreading the dropback.
RE: That was nice of Engram to bail Eli out like that  
map7711 : 9/19/2017 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13607153 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but it's behind him, hitting him on one hand when his momentum is carrying him in the other direction. Even OBJ has a hard time coming down with that one.


You never stop
its representative of a 'high octane O'  
idiotsavant : 9/19/2017 3:58 pm : link
that has failed to build in -any- that LACKS all of the 'low octane options', misdirection, play action, slow and reliable in synch type route runner. blocking TEs.

the marshal drop similar, almost a chuck and duck play as opposed to timing alternate target type play action that manning has done so well for so long.

the literal chuck and duck, the one where manning was in process mid crush by some DLer or LB....same thing, great play.

In fact, I would argue that manning made a number of very, very difficult plays given the by hook or by crook nature of the O that they are left with without an OL.

The pass to TE Adams as well.

Its an extreme version of Jim Fassels Ferrari Without an Engine. All that talent going to waste simply due to no run game, ergo no pass protection, ergo no play action, ergo no misdirection, ergo etc etc etc
At the speed Engram was going...  
M.S. : 9/19/2017 4:01 pm : link

...it's absurd to say he coulda, shoulda, woulda caught that pass.

The pass sucked.

Period.

Great work, Britt  
BurberryManning : 9/19/2017 4:04 pm : link
The issue us "apologists" have is not in absolving Eli for any mistakes but in certain fans/posters using hyperbole to describe his play.

We have had multiple posters claim that Eli had a horrible first half last night, in what was a 7-for-9 start to the game. Now, with the benefit of replay, we see that his most egregious mistake was in not leading his receiver a bit more. Two incompletions- one of which was an interception that the receiver graciously took blame for (even if we all agree that the ball could've been place better).

Sure, mention that Eli may not have been helping matters or that he made some mistakes but by engaging in hyperbole many of us feel dumbfounded.
RE: Great work, Britt  
map7711 : 9/19/2017 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13607300 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
The issue us "apologists" have is not in absolving Eli for any mistakes but in certain fans/posters using hyperbole to describe his play.

We have had multiple posters claim that Eli had a horrible first half last night, in what was a 7-for-9 start to the game. Now, with the benefit of replay, we see that his most egregious mistake was in not leading his receiver a bit more. Two incompletions- one of which was an interception that the receiver graciously took blame for (even if we all agree that the ball could've been place better).

Sure, mention that Eli may not have been helping matters or that he made some mistakes but by engaging in hyperbole many of us feel dumbfounded.


Yup. You said it. Thank you. Again there is about 4-5 Eli haters on BBI. All they do is scan the boards for why's to throw him under the bus. It really is unreal.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Eli may have taken responsibility  
ajr2456 : 9/19/2017 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13607267 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
In comment 13607202 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 13607180 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 13607160 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


but this could also be a case where Engram needs to sit in a zone, as opposed to continue his route in man-to-man. Between the two of them, I'm going to guess that the QB with 13 years in the league read the defense correctly, and the rookie didn't.

Eli is not going to pass the buck, and he's really not going to give any defense any information, regardless of how common in the league it is.



Why in heavens would you have Engram sit in zone when he's a man to man mismatch guy? Added to the point is if the throw was better and leading him he had opportunity to tack on at least 7-8 yards more after catch, heck maybe even more. There's no way that Engram just made up his route there. It was a crisp cut by him and a crossing pattern.



This. Some of these defenses are mind numbing. He's running his route, which is drag across the middle of the field. He's running full speed, there is zero excuse for that ball being behind him. It would be nearly impossible to turn and catch the ball with two hands, given he wasn't that far up the field so the amount of time to react and adjust is limited.



It has nothing to do with "running fullspeed" or what kind of "mismatch" he is. The above comment suggests that Giants are calling the Lions defense. It does have everything to do with what Engram's (possible) responsibilities on the play are.

If you look at the screencaps, there is an LB or safety to the right of Engram, waiting for Engram to come into his zone. In this case, it quite likely that it is Engram's job to read the defense and stop his route, rather than run into coverage. If Eli and Engram are on the same page, then ball is where it should be because Engram has stopped. This is football 101.


That linebacker starts to drop Eli is locked on and about to throw it to Engram. That linebackers responsibility was likely the flat, and recovered back to pick up Engram once he realized nothing was coming to the flat.

I can't post pictures from mobile but if you pause it from the sideline angle As the ball approaches Engram that linebacker was already turning his back to Eli. Making an interception was unlikely
Just asking you guys to mind meld Bill Parcells here  
idiotsavant : 9/19/2017 4:09 pm : link
DL gets the heroic sack strip and the ball back. Good field position.

Run 6x and kick field goal.

Given the way the OL is pass protecting here, and the risks that creates in terms of INTs and Injuries.

prevent 7...gain 3, that's a 10pt swing, and ....running eats the clock.

D is rested instead of deflated, you save your season here.
Ways  
map7711 : 9/19/2017 4:10 pm : link
Not why's. Damn spell check!!
...  
christian : 9/19/2017 4:12 pm : link
I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)
RE: ...  
map7711 : 9/19/2017 4:17 pm : link
In comment 13607317 christian said:
Quote:
I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)


Nah it just shows that every QB in the league throws a pass that's not 100% perfect including Eli. And that pass while not perfect it's not as outrageously bad as some posters claim. How about a freaking player make a play for once on this team? How about not dropping easy passes? How about fighting for one yard for a first down? Make someone miss?
Stop the nonsensical defense of  
section125 : 9/19/2017 4:42 pm : link
that crap throw. Engram was wide open on a crossing pattern. Eli just missed him, period. No excuses that a 240 lb TE should be able to stop on a dime and make a miraculous catch. It was a short throw with some zip - not enough time to stop.

Simply put, right after the defense makes a great turnover, Eli cannot turn that ball over.
Sorry Sect125  
map7711 : 9/19/2017 4:57 pm : link
I want to continue. Sorry buddy.
Hard to believe  
Marty866b : 9/19/2017 5:01 pm : link
That there are so many posters here who blame Engram for that inaccurate,horrendous throw.
RE: Hard to believe  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/19/2017 5:05 pm : link
In comment 13607456 Marty866b said:
Quote:
That there are so many posters here who blame Engram for that inaccurate,horrendous throw.


Or act like they know for a fact what he's supposed to do on that route against that particular defense.
RE: ...  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 5:05 pm : link
In comment 13607317 christian said:
Quote:
I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)

Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2017 5:14 pm : link
Paul Schwartz‏Verified account @NYPost_Schwartz 4m4 minutes ago

Eli Manning said on INT Evan Engram is so fast he came out "a little flatter than I anticipated. I got to make a better throw there.''
RE: Sorry Sect125  
section125 : 9/19/2017 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13607443 map7711 said:
Quote:
I want to continue. Sorry buddy.


That's ok. Opinions are like....we all have one. (even if wrong)
RE: RE: ...  
section125 : 9/19/2017 5:22 pm : link
In comment 13607464 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13607317 christian said:


Quote:


I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)


Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.


Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
gmen9892 : 9/19/2017 5:37 pm : link
In comment 13607484 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607464 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13607317 christian said:


Quote:


I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)


Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.



Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.


So not the dropped 30 yard pass from Marshall, or the holding by Jones at the 1 yard line, or the dropped td pass by Engram, or the 3 sacks given up by Flowers, not the punt return for a TD when only down 7, not the Engram penalty and subsequent kick out of bounds. None of those moments turned the game around? Cmon man.

Eli made a bad throw. One of many over his career. That was not the turning point. If this offense isnt good enough to overcome ONE turnover, then we arent going to have a very long season anyways.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 5:45 pm : link
In comment 13607484 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607464 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13607317 christian said:


Quote:


I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)


Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.



Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.

Call in and complain to them then, i'm sure they will appreciate your strawman point
Eli just said  
arniefez : 9/19/2017 5:50 pm : link
that Engram is fast and got there quicker than he thought and also flattened out a little more than he thought he would. So basically Eli threw to the open window as you can see in the pictures above and he and the rookie weren't on the same page.

I will always support Eli 100% and never take for granted how he's played in NY for over a decade but I have to say it's on the vet not the rookie on that play.
It was Eli's fault ...  
DonQuixote : 9/19/2017 5:51 pm : link
...but I don't think it was because he was inaccurate. I think if he leads Engram on that play, Whitehead intercepts, so Eli was threading a needle. If true, the mistake was not choosing another receiver but rather trying to force it in.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
bigbluehoya : 9/19/2017 5:55 pm : link
In comment 13607503 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607484 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13607464 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13607317 christian said:


Quote:


I hope it brings you solace knowing it wasn't Eli's fault - (even when the coach, the QB, the analysts and the viewing public disagree.)


Actually the vast majority of talking heads I have heard today don't blame him for that throw. They mention lack of familiarity between them as the biggest factor.



Eli is teflon as usual. That throw turned the game around. The defense had just stopped Detroit after the Giants went done the field for a sort of easy TD.



So not the dropped 30 yard pass from Marshall, or the holding by Jones at the 1 yard line, or the dropped td pass by Engram, or the 3 sacks given up by Flowers, not the punt return for a TD when only down 7, not the Engram penalty and subsequent kick out of bounds. None of those moments turned the game around? Cmon man.

Eli made a bad throw. One of many over his career. That was not the turning point. If this offense isnt good enough to overcome ONE turnover, then we arent going to have a very long season anyways.


Is it really a stretch to call the INT a turning point in the game?

A team that can't seem to get anything going, has looked like shit dating back to an awful playoff performance last year, is playing a primtetime game at home, come out like dogshit again and has the crowd starting to turn on them a bit. They FINALLY put together a scoring drive to tie the game after a shit first quarter. And they get to the QB, force a fumble, and get the elusive turnover! Here we go! Things are starting to turn! We've got this!

And they throw a fucking interception on the very next play to give it right back.

And it's a scalding hot take that offends your sensibilities to call that the turning point in the game?

RE: That was nice of Engram to bail Eli out like that  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 5:55 pm : link
In comment 13607153 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but it's behind him, hitting him on one hand when his momentum is carrying him in the other direction. Even OBJ has a hard time coming down with that one.


Keep doubling down.
the int was hurtful, but not critical, just a bad 2Q play.  
stoneman : 9/19/2017 6:15 pm : link
I thought the most critical play was Marshall's drop - killed everything going late in the game. Even the punt return hurt more.
All QB's throw interceptions  
PatersonPlank : 9/19/2017 6:18 pm : link
Right now Eli is on track for 16, which is ok. There was plenty of time to win that game.
RE: Eli just said  
Milton : 9/19/2017 6:22 pm : link
In comment 13607515 arniefez said:
Quote:
that Engram is fast and got there quicker than he thought and also flattened out a little more than he thought he would. So basically Eli threw to the open window as you can see in the pictures above and he and the rookie weren't on the same page.

I will always support Eli 100% and never take for granted how he's played in NY for over a decade but I have to say it's on the vet not the rookie on that play.
What if Engram wasn't supposed to have "flattened out" as much as he did, then who is it on? And Eli always blames himself publicly. He'll never throw his receiver under the bus. A veteran TE might've known to slow down and sit in the zone on a play like that. Not knowing the design of the play, it's impossible for any of us to know who was at fault.
You'd think after watching so many Eli interceptions  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/19/2017 6:51 pm : link
people wouldn't feel compelled to go to lengths to blame anyone else but him.

Some of them are his fault. It is okay to acknowledge bad throws.
It doesn't really matter who was at fault on that play  
arniefez : 9/19/2017 6:57 pm : link
it's a symptom of a much greater team ill. Once again having one of the very worst OL's in the NFL is wrecking the team. That is not on Eli. That's on the Mara's Bros, Reese and the coaching staff.
That pass was fucking terrible  
djm : 9/19/2017 7:09 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Sorry Sect125  
map7711 : 9/19/2017 7:19 pm : link
In comment 13607480 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607443 map7711 said:


Quote:


I want to continue. Sorry buddy.



That's ok. Opinions are like....we all have one. (even if wrong)


Yup. It must suck to know when you're wrong but can't let it go. Sorry about that buddy but live w it.
RE: the int was hurtful, but not critical, just a bad 2Q play.  
section125 : 9/19/2017 7:44 pm : link
In comment 13607545 stoneman said:
Quote:
I thought the most critical play was Marshall's drop - killed everything going late in the game. Even the punt return hurt more.


With no int, the Giants likely keep moving down the field. In any case, the score is no worse than 7-7 not losing 14-7.

The Marshall drop, while crucial, the Giants were already losing 24-10 with 8:30 left, so chances were not that great they overcome that lead, or not guaranteed.
17-10 at the time of the Marshall drop  
Kyle in NY : 9/19/2017 7:47 pm : link
The punt return was right after it
RE: 17-10 at the time of the Marshall drop  
Jim in Fairfax : 9/19/2017 8:01 pm : link
In comment 13607638 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
The punt return was right after it

Exactly. Catch would have put them in Lions territory down by 7. Good potential to tie the game.
RE: RE: the int was hurtful, but not critical, just a bad 2Q play.  
JCin332 : 9/19/2017 8:52 pm : link
In comment 13607636 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13607545 stoneman said:


Quote:


I thought the most critical play was Marshall's drop - killed everything going late in the game. Even the punt return hurt more.



With no int, the Giants likely keep moving down the field. In any case, the score is no worse than 7-7 not losing 14-7.

The Marshall drop, while crucial, the Giants were already losing 24-10 with 8:30 left, so chances were not that great they overcome that lead, or not guaranteed.


This is a perfect example of why sometimes I think that some of these so called "fans" don't watch the games...

In their zeal to hammer Eli they have no clue as to what actually happened in the game...

Was it catchable??  
EricJ : 9/19/2017 9:02 pm : link
sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.

Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.

Why does it often have to be so difficult?

We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped.
Engram TD - ( New Window )
It's not that complicated  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 9:07 pm : link
It wasn't a great throw but it wasn't a horrible throw either. It was a catchable ball like some on the game thread said at the time.

QBs make the same type of throws all the time every week. The only reason it's a hot button topic is because of bad luck.
What we are really arguing about his an adjective...  
JOrthman : 9/19/2017 9:15 pm : link
.
spin doctoring  
micky : 9/19/2017 9:30 pm : link
.
...  
christian : 9/19/2017 9:52 pm : link
If we're being objective (and we're not), it's pretty fair to assume if the safest place to throw the ball is behind the receiver, it probably was a bad decision to throw it, no?
Sorry, but Eli is an NFL QB and our highest paid player  
Daniel in MI : 9/19/2017 9:58 pm : link
It's not a long throw. Put it where it belongs, in front of EE. I see other QBs make this throw - and harder ones - all the time. It was a shit throw for an NFL QB.

Running full speed in one direction it's not very to reach back and catch a ball behind you. It would have been an amazing catch if he got it (and the TD was a pretty damn good catch that Chucky barely mentioned, why was that ball behind him, too)?

Eli is rushing and it's no wonder. But please, if an "NFL WR needs to make that catch" then sure as hell an NFL QB needs to make that throw. Even a throw a bit low or high in front of him is probably caught. But a shorter throw behind him coming across? Very unlikely.
I haven't seen the playbook, so I'm talking out of my ass here  
Shepherdsam : 9/19/2017 10:04 pm : link
but if Engram has a deeper angle on his route, he catches a beautifully thrown ball a little farther upfield in the space between two defenders.
RE: Was it catchable??  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 11:00 pm : link
In comment 13607731 EricJ said:
Quote:
sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.

Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.

Why does it often have to be so difficult?

We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )


LMAO I would love to know why a TD pass that a TE has to jump one foot in the air to make because it has to clear the LB's dropping is such a bad pass...

Seriously it's like some of you have to create a bitch about Eli no matter what
RE: RE: Was it catchable??  
EricJ : 9/19/2017 11:05 pm : link
In comment 13607833 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13607731 EricJ said:


Quote:


sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.

Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.

Why does it often have to be so difficult?

We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )



LMAO I would love to know why a TD pass that a TE has to jump one foot in the air to make because it has to clear the LB's dropping is such a bad pass...

Seriously it's like some of you have to create a bitch about Eli no matter what


Sure...no matter what. Why don't you ignore the fact that I referenced good passes he made TWICE within the same post. I am pretty careful to create some balance. Want to say that some people bitch "no matter what" that is fine, but not me.
RE: RE: RE: Was it catchable??  
montanagiant : 9/19/2017 11:24 pm : link
In comment 13607837 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13607833 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13607731 EricJ said:


Quote:


sure I guess so. However, why are so many of these passes far far off target? Eli did make some nice throws in the game but damn too many poor throws.

Since we are talking about Engram, take a look at the video of his TD catch. Wide fucking open by at least 5 yards. Thank God Engram is athletic because the throw was high and behind him.

Why does it often have to be so difficult?

We can also cue up the perfect pass he gifted to Marshall that was dropped. Engram TD - ( New Window )



LMAO I would love to know why a TD pass that a TE has to jump one foot in the air to make because it has to clear the LB's dropping is such a bad pass...

Seriously it's like some of you have to create a bitch about Eli no matter what



Sure...no matter what. Why don't you ignore the fact that I referenced good passes he made TWICE within the same post. I am pretty careful to create some balance. Want to say that some people bitch "no matter what" that is fine, but not me.
Eric do you honestly believe a pass for a TD that a receiver has to hop a foot in the air for because there is some underneath coverage is a bad pass?

There are two athletes involved in that play is it really that hard to expect one of them to make that catch without trying to nitpick the fact the ball was not 1 foot lower?
RE: Sorry, but Eli is an NFL QB and our highest paid player  
WillVAB : 9/19/2017 11:24 pm : link
In comment 13607781 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:
It's not a long throw. Put it where it belongs, in front of EE. I see other QBs make this throw - and harder ones - all the time. It was a shit throw for an NFL QB.

Running full speed in one direction it's not very to reach back and catch a ball behind you. It would have been an amazing catch if he got it (and the TD was a pretty damn good catch that Chucky barely mentioned, why was that ball behind him, too)?

Eli is rushing and it's no wonder. But please, if an "NFL WR needs to make that catch" then sure as hell an NFL QB needs to make that throw. Even a throw a bit low or high in front of him is probably caught. But a shorter throw behind him coming across? Very unlikely.


Shorter throw? The ball was face mask level. If the ball is literally thrown one foot in front of the receiver it's a perfect pass. That was a pass that I see skilled receivers adjust to all the time and make a play. But because Engram didn't and it led to a turnover, it's a horrible pass. Textbook results oriented analysis.

I think a lot of the critics on this board watch the Giants but only see highlights of the other QBs around the league -- hence the inflated perception of the top QBs around the league.

If Eli sailed it over Engram's head or threw it at his shins then yea, it'd be a bad pass. Odds are those throws wouldn't have resulted in picks and this wouldn't even be a topic today.
Eli  
old man : 9/20/2017 3:01 am : link
has consistently had trouble hitting receivers in stride throughout his career, often behind or high(thus the tipped picks), so even if the ball is caught, by the time the received gets back in stride the D has caught up and the gain isn't nearly what it might have been.
He did the same thing to Vereen on the swing pass that went for 8-9and not 30.
I'm often an Eli apologist, but that was on him.
RE: Sorry, but Eli is an NFL QB and our highest paid player  
Les in TO : 9/20/2017 6:00 am : link
In comment 13607781 Daniel in MI said:
Quote:
It's not a long throw. Put it where it belongs, in front of EE. I see other QBs make this throw - and harder ones - all the time. It was a shit throw for an NFL QB.

Running full speed in one direction it's not very to reach back and catch a ball behind you. It would have been an amazing catch if he got it (and the TD was a pretty damn good catch that Chucky barely mentioned, why was that ball behind him, too)?

Eli is rushing and it's no wonder. But please, if an "NFL WR needs to make that catch" then sure as hell an NFL QB needs to make that throw. Even a throw a bit low or high in front of him is probably caught. But a shorter throw behind him coming across? Very unlikely.
great post
Terrible throw  
WideRight : 9/20/2017 7:12 am : link
He's not an accurate, elite level passer.

Next
We finally get a fast athletic TE that is a mismatch  
Jimmy Googs : 9/20/2017 7:46 am : link
in coverage. He gets wide open on a crossing route and we now want him to stop, sit in the zone to catch passes and seemingly take away that obvious advantage??

it was a bad pass...

BTW- bad passes happen. On good teams they are just plays. On bad teams they are big plays.
Even the TD to Engram  
NikkiMac : 9/20/2017 8:39 am : link
Wasnt a great throw it was behind him and the kid made a good catch and he was wide open !!
RE: Even the TD to Engram  
Scyber : 9/20/2017 9:07 am : link
In comment 13607962 NikkiMac said:
Quote:
Wasnt a great throw it was behind him and the kid made a good catch and he was wide open !!


I'm gonna play devils advocate here. But on the TD pass I think Engram may have drifted in his route. He starts slightly outside the hash marks, is on the hashmarks when eli throws and is slightly inside the hashmarks when he catches it. The ball is pretty much thrown to the hashmarks.

I don't know the specific route he was supposed to run, but it looks like Eli expected him to continue straight up the field.

Now he is a rookie, so route errors are not unexpected. Especially looking back to the QB, wide open, for his first TD.

He caught the ball so all is well, but looking at the play I wouldn't be surprised if he drifted inside a bit too much.

Or perhaps Eli just made a bad pass.....
Look at Eli's feet  
Thegratefulhead : 9/20/2017 9:16 am : link
Grab a football, go outside and try to hit something moving fast without stepping forward...I'll wait.
Again, all QB's throw bad passes. Eli threw it behind him,  
PatersonPlank : 9/20/2017 9:37 am : link
so what it happens in every game you will watch with every QB. No QB throws it perfectly every time. It was unlucky that the ball bounced straight up and was picked.

Time to move on, this thread is nuts. It was one play. If we were a decent team we'd have 50 or so more plays.
RE: Again, all QB's throw bad passes. Eli threw it behind him,  
DisgruntledGiantsfan : 9/20/2017 6:44 pm : link
In comment 13608077 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
so what it happens in every game you will watch with every QB. No QB throws it perfectly every time. It was unlucky that the ball bounced straight up and was picked.

Time to move on, this thread is nuts. It was one play. If we were a decent team we'd have 50 or so more plays.


Agreed.
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