...shit being dished out on this site for the second year coach!?!
Whatever his "failings", they don't come close to the 4+ year fuck-up that has been brewing between our offensive line and Eli Manning.
THAT problem rests squarely on Jerry Reese. His ass should be on the line for a chronic problem he never fixed. He tried... he failed.
Badly.
trueblueinpw : 7:53 am : link : reply
It's how the Giants are losing.
I agree.....this offense should be better than it is....
Some of us have been expressing consternation since early last season about the obvious failings of McAdoo as an offensive coach (historically poor results and inexplicably running 11 personnel all the time). It's only two games but after substantial upgrades at WR and TE and upgrades at RB, McAdoo's offense is actually getting worse and he isn't making any adjustments.
Well, substantial upgrades? That is questionable.....Marshall? How much of an upgrade has he been over Cruz? Double E? He is a rookie, and he is playing like one, thus far....many expected much more from him....he will get better as the season progresses, but to expect it right out of the gate is foolhardy.....Perkins/Gallman/Darkwa/Vereen? Who would be a starter on another team? OL additions? Can't even crack the starting lineup, which is pathetic......Subtract OBj from the equation, and what do you expect? But Mac is not really utilizing what he has.....He has to do a better job....
Teams having been whooping the Giants with vanilla two high safety defenses with defenders clearly knowing the routes and at times the plays McAdoo is calling. The offense is pathetic.
True....with 7 back there, an we are running short routes, which bunches the defense together, meaning when a pass is caught, the receiver is immediately tackled for no yac.....resulting in a lot of third down completions for no first downs.....he has to stretch the defense, or commit to a 2 TE offense/with FB, with Eli under center, and either run it, or use play action off if it......but the OL, TE's and FB have to block better.....break a few runs, and then Play action comes into play....
McAdoo's also been tossing Eli under the bus with public comments in the media. McAdoo is arrogant and failing. Not a recipe for success. McAdoo's problem isn't impetuous fair weather fans, McAdoo's problem is that he isn't a good offensive football coach.
Yes, with lack of experience, his main selling point was his continuing transition of the offense with Eli, after the first year......but we have not seen any growth in the offense after the first year....he does not look like he is capable of making adjustments to the defenses thrown at him, especially the two deep safety defense.....that is very telling.....
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Our first Superbowl team was absolutely built on that philosophy.
The first thing Coughlin said in his introductory press conference was getting back to "Giants Football" and "controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball".
Within his first year of being here we added Snee, O'hara, and McKenzie, and already had Diehl and Suebert, and then Jacobs and Bradshaw. We have a major power running game and inflicted our will on other teams from the LOS.
We had two RB's go for 1000 yards each in 2008.
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Like Britt said....2007 was built around an OL and DL. 2011 was a gift from the football gods and Eli. That might have been one of the worst teams to ever win a Superbowl.
If your are gonna have a bad OL....you need a QB that can run like hell.
McAdoo can be doing more to mask the weaknesses of our offensive tackles. how about running more two tight end sets so that we can have extra blockers for manning who at this stage in his career cannot move around like he did in his prime? why does he run so many 5 wide and 4 wide formations that leave manning vulnerable? his orthodoxy to s system and failure to adapt personnel sets and playcalling for the reality of the strengths and weaknesses of his talent is a major weakness.
on top of being inflexible with his system, he doesn't hold his players accountable for poor performance and make changes when needed. flowers needs a break or a position switch as he can't handle left tackle at the moment. top ten pick or not, he is a weak link. even if wheeler is raw, how much worse can he be than flowers is today?
McAdoo has his hand in this also. To take a bad OL and just hope they'll get better had to be a mutual decision between Reese and McAdoo.
2) I am starting to see a pattern where he does seem like he is throwing ELI under the bus. Not completely but subtly jabs here and there that seem like he has an issue with Eli. Go back to a year ago where he said Eli has to be able to throw from a dirty pocket (meaning guys around him, near his feet etc.) and not all pass plays can be blocked out perfectly. That to me says Eli isn't the kind of QB he likes in his system (he is no Aaron Rodgers, no Wilson, No Winston, Newton etc) as he has very limited mobility. I feel like the stubborn comments about the Oline not as bad as people say is more a comment about ELI not being able to help them by avoiding the rush and throwing on the run. It is almost like he is letting off frustration at being saddled with a QB who he doesn't see in his offense and especially long term.
I truly believe we are seeing the end of ELI in NY or the end of McAdoo as coach. I don't see both being here next year!
2) I am starting to see a pattern where he does seem like he is throwing ELI under the bus. Not completely but subtly jabs here and there that seem like he has an issue with Eli. Go back to a year ago where he said Eli has to be able to throw from a dirty pocket (meaning guys around him, near his feet etc.) and not all pass plays can be blocked out perfectly. That to me says Eli isn't the kind of QB he likes in his system (he is no Aaron Rodgers, no Wilson, No Winston, Newton etc) as he has very limited mobility. I feel like the stubborn comments about the Oline not as bad as people say is more a comment about ELI not being able to help them by avoiding the rush and throwing on the run. It is almost like he is letting off frustration at being saddled with a QB who he doesn't see in his offense and especially long term.
I truly believe we are seeing the end of ELI in NY or the end of McAdoo as coach. I don't see both being here next year!
I agree with you completely, and based on that, it makes me believe that McAdoo sold Mara and/or Reese a false bill of goods, because I'm absolutely sure they asked him if Eli could be the guy in his system, and that he would be finishing out his contract (that he had just signed), and his final years, here.
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1) Why can't people question McAdoo and his ability to coach? We were 11-5 last year because of our defense. The Offense was pathetic in many wins (both Dallas games, the Saints game, Ravens and Lions) and has now strung together quite the stretch of offensive ineptitude. His demeanor in press conferences is annoying because it seems FAKE, copy cat almost. You are no BB and do not have his resume (The guy had multiple SB appearances as a DC long before multiple appearances and wins as a HC).
2) I am starting to see a pattern where he does seem like he is throwing ELI under the bus. Not completely but subtly jabs here and there that seem like he has an issue with Eli. Go back to a year ago where he said Eli has to be able to throw from a dirty pocket (meaning guys around him, near his feet etc.) and not all pass plays can be blocked out perfectly. That to me says Eli isn't the kind of QB he likes in his system (he is no Aaron Rodgers, no Wilson, No Winston, Newton etc) as he has very limited mobility. I feel like the stubborn comments about the Oline not as bad as people say is more a comment about ELI not being able to help them by avoiding the rush and throwing on the run. It is almost like he is letting off frustration at being saddled with a QB who he doesn't see in his offense and especially long term.
I truly believe we are seeing the end of ELI in NY or the end of McAdoo as coach. I don't see both being here next year!
I agree with you completely, and based on that, it makes me believe that McAdoo sold Mara and/or Reese a false bill of goods, because I'm absolutely sure they asked him if Eli could be the guy in his system, and that he would be finishing out his contract (that he had just signed), and his final years, here.
Makes one wonder what that last year, year and half was like for TC with McAdoo there.. Sure seems like B.McAdoo has changed a bit now that he has the control.
fool proof
Don't Win Championship = Coach needs to be fired
I'm not saying the OL needs to be the best, just be adequate. Right now the league, the players, the press/analysts/media, and the fans all see it sucks. When will the coaching staff stop being so stubborn.
I'm not saying the OL needs to be the best, just be adequate. Right now the league, the players, the press/analysts/media, and the fans all see it sucks. When will the coaching staff stop being so stubborn.
Bingo.
All we heard all camp is how Flowers looked horrible. It's now translating to games, and getting the offense and Eli in trouble.
A good coach stays patient sometimes, but also has to know when to make a move and realize a player just isnt't the right fit.
Flowers needs to be moved somewhere away from LT, whether that's the other side or the bench.
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OL first - where's the evidence of this?
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Our first Superbowl team was absolutely built on that philosophy.
The first thing Coughlin said in his introductory press conference was getting back to "Giants Football" and "controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball".
Within his first year of being here we added Snee, O'hara, and McKenzie, and already had Diehl and Suebert, and then Jacobs and Bradshaw. We have a major power running game and inflicted our will on other teams from the LOS.
We had two RB's go for 1000 yards each in 2008.
And he's building the same thing in JAX right now.
Quote:
In comment 13607969 jcn56 said:
Quote:
OL first - where's the evidence of this?
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Our first Superbowl team was absolutely built on that philosophy.
The first thing Coughlin said in his introductory press conference was getting back to "Giants Football" and "controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball".
Within his first year of being here we added Snee, O'hara, and McKenzie, and already had Diehl and Suebert, and then Jacobs and Bradshaw. We have a major power running game and inflicted our will on other teams from the LOS.
We had two RB's go for 1000 yards each in 2008.
And he's building the same thing in JAX right now.
He did it there the first time too.
2nd pick in the 1995 NFL Draft (first draft pick ever for the Jax franchise, Tom Coughlin the GM and Head Coach): Tony Bosselli.
Quote:
OL first - where's the evidence of this?
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Like Britt said....2007 was built around an OL and DL. 2011 was a gift from the football gods and Eli. That might have been one of the worst teams to ever win a Superbowl.
If your are gonna have a bad OL....you need a QB that can run like hell.
This team is still built the same way at DL. As far as the OL in 07 - the only significant resource spent on that line was the cash to acquire KM at RT. Otherwise, O'Hara was a mid-tier signing from the Browns in 04. Seubert an undrafted FA. Diehl? A 5th round pick. Snee, a 2nd rounder.
They all played well, don't get me wrong. But they weren't the Hogs. They were a good, not great OL. And they didn't represent some fundamental difference in investing in or building a team. The major different - they picked better players, even if they were picked later or for less money.
You can't run block and pass block. That's game, set, match. You can't scheme for that and actually win games.
Matt Harvey will replace Eli at QB
Carmelo Anthony will replace Odell at WR
This could work Melo finds a sport where he catches a pass & doesn't have to pass it again!
have John Jerry starting everyone and there brother says you
don't draft Guards high because there easy to come by .
You take Bobby Hart who most pun-dents thought could work his way into a serviceable guard not a tackle .
We drafted Pugh to play tackle where he did not fare all that
well now he is a decent guard . We take a center in Richberg
thats technically sound but can't anchor or move the DT's he faces and many times is physically overwhelmed .
So it really does not say much for talent evaluation .
Does McADoo even know the concept of max protect? Especially when you have playmakers at WR.
It’s easy to blame the GM. But they’re getting their ass kicked on the headsets
Never mind that there's a solid two way TE just rotting on the bench while one of the big 3 at WR wasn't even able to play.
But you're right...it's the OL and Reese. It's always that isn't it.
I've seen shittier OLs be hidden better than McAdoo has hidden this one. Don't tell me this is the worst OL in the history of the NFL and even if it is, the WRs, TEs and QB are good enough to at least elevate this unit to just bad. Right now it's historically terrible.
IF you think this is all on the OL, every single aspect of this failure is on the OL, you're a frickin fool. It's never that simple. This is a fundamental failure of the highest order. You don't play THIS BADLY just off a struggling OL. No fucking way. The 2003 OL was worse and they scored more points than this team is scoring.
Why not run the TWO TE sets that this team has the personnel to employ when the star WR is hurt and MArshall is ineffective and possibly still banged up himself?
No one can spin this failure to me. It's an awful oversight on McAdoo's part. He's a mess right now. A total mess.
Again, I do believe the H****ey comparisons are valid until seen otherwise.
Nope, let's run end around with Shepard.
By the way the biggest play this offense has made in two weeks was made by the #3 TE. He played ONE snap on monday. One.
It never happens. The coaching is abysmal.
One thing has changed. McAdoo is now the HC. It's his baby now.
This is one of those things that is so simple to see that even an ardent supporter and somewhat pollyanna fan like myself can't ignore the fact that McAdoo has been absolutely terrible here through the first 2 weeks of the season. And when you factor in last year's offensive output, the results are in. There is no mystery. The guy has lost this offense.
Maybe he turns it around. I won't close the book on him but McAdoo needs to take a long hard look at himself and open up that mind of his. He's blowing it.
Britt may have been right. I didn't want to admit it...and I was happy with the 11 wins last year...but this is alarming.
Don't Win Championship = Coach needs to be fired
Yeah you left out the little nugget that this offense is on a pace that would shatter futility records.
Please, trust me, nobody wants to be wrong on this more than me. It sickens me watching this offense, and especially wasting Eli's final (and what should be some of his prime) years.
2) I am starting to see a pattern where he does seem like he is throwing ELI under the bus. Not completely but subtly jabs here and there that seem like he has an issue with Eli. Go back to a year ago where he said Eli has to be able to throw from a dirty pocket (meaning guys around him, near his feet etc.) and not all pass plays can be blocked out perfectly. That to me says Eli isn't the kind of QB he likes in his system (he is no Aaron Rodgers, no Wilson, No Winston, Newton etc) as he has very limited mobility. I feel like the stubborn comments about the Oline not as bad as people say is more a comment about ELI not being able to help them by avoiding the rush and throwing on the run. It is almost like he is letting off frustration at being saddled with a QB who he doesn't see in his offense and especially long term.
I truly believe we are seeing the end of ELI in NY or the end of McAdoo as coach. I don't see both being here next year!
I agree. That is where the train seems to be heading.
You can't run block and pass block. That's game, set, match. You can't scheme for that and actually win games.
But isn't it his responsibility to tell the GM what he needs? If he told Reese he was ok with the cast of characters assembled isn't he equally complicit? I have no sympathy for either of them.
I think there's some overreaction - about Reese, McAdoo, and even Eli - based off of two games against two good teams.
That tells me that either McAdoo has fallen out of love with Ellison faster than shit through a goose, or has forgotten he has an embarrassment of riches at the TE position, or forgotten how bad this offense looks in 11 personnel, or never really wanted Ellison in the first place.
Any of the possible scenarios are scary to me.
Again, I do believe the H****ey comparisons are valid until seen otherwise.
I do not know about comparisons to past coaches. But,I see it the same as you. He took a team he did not build that was infused with great talent on the side of the ball he has almost nothing to do with. Last year there was success, but the offense was garbage. Now, the offense is league worst through two games. This in an NFL that favors offense.
The jury is still way out on McAdoo. If nothing changes this week and the Giants get obliterated I would say the jury is back, and with a bad verdict.
Our first Superbowl team was absolutely built on that philosophy.
The first thing Coughlin said in his introductory press conference was getting back to "Giants Football" and "controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball".
Within his first year of being here we added Snee, O'hara, and McKenzie, and already had Diehl and Suebert, and then Jacobs and Bradshaw. We have a major power running game and inflicted our will on other teams from the LOS.
We had two RB's go for 1000 yards each in 2008.
And he's building the same thing in JAX right now.
He did it there the first time too.
2nd pick in the 1995 NFL Draft (first draft pick ever for the Jax franchise, Tom Coughlin the GM and Head Coach): Tony Bosselli.
You know, McAdoo has to be at least partially responsible for the personnel, both who we sign/draft and more importantly who makes the team and who plays. The OK was a disaster all summer, yet we start the same 5. We had some success in Week 1 with a TH or TE in the backfield and reverted back to 11 personnel most of the game on Monday. These are coaching decisions.
2) I am starting to see a pattern where he does seem like he is throwing ELI under the bus. Not completely but subtly jabs here and there that seem like he has an issue with Eli. Go back to a year ago where he said Eli has to be able to throw from a dirty pocket (meaning guys around him, near his feet etc.) and not all pass plays can be blocked out perfectly. That to me says Eli isn't the kind of QB he likes in his system (he is no Aaron Rodgers, no Wilson, No Winston, Newton etc) as he has very limited mobility. I feel like the stubborn comments about the Oline not as bad as people say is more a comment about ELI not being able to help them by avoiding the rush and throwing on the run. It is almost like he is letting off frustration at being saddled with a QB who he doesn't see in his offense and especially long term.
I truly believe we are seeing the end of ELI in NY or the end of McAdoo as coach. I don't see both being here next year!
His demeanor is annoying in pressers because he speaks a lot but says absolutely nothing except tired cliches and he comes off as completely obtuse.
We'd like to think that he does this because he doesn't want to give anything away but given that nothing has seemed to change over several weeks with the offense, it seems more likely that he IS completely obtuse.