...shit being dished out on this site for the second year coach!?!
Whatever his "failings", they don't come close to the 4+ year fuck-up that has been brewing between our offensive line and Eli Manning.
THAT problem rests squarely on Jerry Reese. His ass should be on the line for a chronic problem he never fixed. He tried... he failed.
Badly.
The good news for McAdoo is people have short memories - start winning, and this will all dissipate quickly. The bad news is time is moving quickly and the chances of a quick turnaround aren't very promising.
How is that working out?
People say that we had a great offense in 2015 but the numbers were skewed because points were scored in garbage time. Even last year the defense masked the inept offense that can't score more than 20 points a game.
McAdoo's also been tossing Eli under the bus with public comments in the media. McAdoo is arrogant and failing. Not a recipe for success. McAdoo's problem isn't impetuous fair weather fans, McAdoo's problem is that he isn't a good offensive football coach.
Matt Harvey will replace Eli at QB
Carmelo Anthony will replace Odell at WR
McAdoo's also been tossing Eli under the bus with public comments in the media. McAdoo is arrogant and failing. Not a recipe for success. McAdoo's problem isn't impetuous fair weather fans, McAdoo's problem is that he isn't a good offensive football coach.
Your words:
"It's only two games but after substantial upgrades at WR and TE and upgrades at RB, McAdoo's offense is actually getting worse and he isn't making any adjustments."
My words:
Jerry Reese never learned a fundamental personnel lesson: the performance of wide receivers, tight ends and running backs is more dependent on the offensive line than vice-versa.
Think about it. Over a six year period he couldn't find one left tackle other then a Will Beaty who was probably more suited to play right tackle. Then he gave him that huge contract to boot. Then there was his disdain for finding a competent tighend. They say you build and retool things over time. He retooled the defense in one field swoop. But yet he mind numbingly over a six year period and stubbornly tried to fix the offense with duct tape and glue. That's why the fan base has so much distrust and dislike for Jerry Reese.
As of now that plan has failed miserably. Under this coach the Giants are the worst offense in the NFL.
On the other hand, he's won two SBs as GM and that's two more SB than most other NFL GMs can claim. He's had some good and even great drafts - sure the injuries and whiffs exist as well but no one hits on the draft all the time. I think an objective evaluation would put Reese among the very best GMs in the NFL.
But even if you make a solid case against Reese, can you really say that McAdoo is getting the most out of the offensive talent? I can't. Even with a suspect O line, which includes Pugh and Richburg who are good NFL players along with some JAGs, there's serious talent at the other skill positions. I think the problem with the offense is poor coaching and pathetically inept game planning and play calling.
Have people really been talking about trading/cutting Beckham?
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a new GM, new coach, and to get rid of our best player. Sounds like a fullproof plan to me.
Not cutting, but definitely trading. There's and active thread on that now and there were multiple threads per week on it during the offseason.
Have people really been talking about trading/cutting Beckham?
And the overall evaluation of talent not just the players but the coaching is suspect at best.
The LT position has been an issue for years and honestly we haven’t had one since Diehl IMO. Will Beatty was not a good LT but yet we drafted him as such same with Flowers.
In addition I know Solari came in with a solid reputation but how does an entire O-line regress in two years rather than show some signs of improvement or at the very least stay the same mediocre line?
I can’t help but to think if Flaherty was still here the sky would not be falling for most Giant fans.
The guy was a heck of a coach.
You couldn't be more wrong. The defense played very well week 1 and without their best CB and LBer they kept us in the game against Detroit but where constantly put in bad field position. What more can they realistically do? Tomlinson was making plays on Sunday, Hankins is an afterthought.
McAdoo's also been tossing Eli under the bus with public comments in the media. McAdoo is arrogant and failing. Not a recipe for success. McAdoo's problem isn't impetuous fair weather fans, McAdoo's problem is that he isn't a good offensive football coach.
Agreed, Carl Banks said the giants are a "get right" team right now, in other words the giants offense is so terrible that their defenses "get right" against them. The giants are simply unable to attack an opposing D's weaknesses at all...depressing. But let's just keep doing what we are doing and keep saying "we need to get better, etc." Insanity.
The stats damning McAdoo's pathetic offense are breath taking and mounting. We know McAdoos offense is at 8 straight games under 20 points; unless I misunderstood, Papa was saying on the radio that the next teams with consecutive games under 20 points was 2 games. The offense is historically bad.
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
trueblueinpw : 7:53 am : link : reply
It's how the Giants are losing.
I agree.....this offense should be better than it is....
Some of us have been expressing consternation since early last season about the obvious failings of McAdoo as an offensive coach (historically poor results and inexplicably running 11 personnel all the time). It's only two games but after substantial upgrades at WR and TE and upgrades at RB, McAdoo's offense is actually getting worse and he isn't making any adjustments.
Well, substantial upgrades? That is questionable.....Marshall? How much of an upgrade has he been over Cruz? Double E? He is a rookie, and he is playing like one, thus far....many expected much more from him....he will get better as the season progresses, but to expect it right out of the gate is foolhardy.....Perkins/Gallman/Darkwa/Vereen? Who would be a starter on another team? OL additions? Can't even crack the starting lineup, which is pathetic......Subtract OBj from the equation, and what do you expect? But Mac is not really utilizing what he has.....He has to do a better job....
Teams having been whooping the Giants with vanilla two high safety defenses with defenders clearly knowing the routes and at times the plays McAdoo is calling. The offense is pathetic.
True....with 7 back there, an we are running short routes, which bunches the defense together, meaning when a pass is caught, the receiver is immediately tackled for no yac.....resulting in a lot of third down completions for no first downs.....he has to stretch the defense, or commit to a 2 TE offense/with FB, with Eli under center, and either run it, or use play action off if it......but the OL, TE's and FB have to block better.....break a few runs, and then Play action comes into play....
McAdoo's also been tossing Eli under the bus with public comments in the media. McAdoo is arrogant and failing. Not a recipe for success. McAdoo's problem isn't impetuous fair weather fans, McAdoo's problem is that he isn't a good offensive football coach.
Yes, with lack of experience, his main selling point was his continuing transition of the offense with Eli, after the first year......but we have not seen any growth in the offense after the first year....he does not look like he is capable of making adjustments to the defenses thrown at him, especially the two deep safety defense.....that is very telling.....
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Our first Superbowl team was absolutely built on that philosophy.
The first thing Coughlin said in his introductory press conference was getting back to "Giants Football" and "controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball".
Within his first year of being here we added Snee, O'hara, and McKenzie, and already had Diehl and Suebert, and then Jacobs and Bradshaw. We have a major power running game and inflicted our will on other teams from the LOS.
We had two RB's go for 1000 yards each in 2008.
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Like Britt said....2007 was built around an OL and DL. 2011 was a gift from the football gods and Eli. That might have been one of the worst teams to ever win a Superbowl.
If your are gonna have a bad OL....you need a QB that can run like hell.
McAdoo can be doing more to mask the weaknesses of our offensive tackles. how about running more two tight end sets so that we can have extra blockers for manning who at this stage in his career cannot move around like he did in his prime? why does he run so many 5 wide and 4 wide formations that leave manning vulnerable? his orthodoxy to s system and failure to adapt personnel sets and playcalling for the reality of the strengths and weaknesses of his talent is a major weakness.
on top of being inflexible with his system, he doesn't hold his players accountable for poor performance and make changes when needed. flowers needs a break or a position switch as he can't handle left tackle at the moment. top ten pick or not, he is a weak link. even if wheeler is raw, how much worse can he be than flowers is today?
McAdoo has his hand in this also. To take a bad OL and just hope they'll get better had to be a mutual decision between Reese and McAdoo.
2) I am starting to see a pattern where he does seem like he is throwing ELI under the bus. Not completely but subtly jabs here and there that seem like he has an issue with Eli. Go back to a year ago where he said Eli has to be able to throw from a dirty pocket (meaning guys around him, near his feet etc.) and not all pass plays can be blocked out perfectly. That to me says Eli isn't the kind of QB he likes in his system (he is no Aaron Rodgers, no Wilson, No Winston, Newton etc) as he has very limited mobility. I feel like the stubborn comments about the Oline not as bad as people say is more a comment about ELI not being able to help them by avoiding the rush and throwing on the run. It is almost like he is letting off frustration at being saddled with a QB who he doesn't see in his offense and especially long term.
I truly believe we are seeing the end of ELI in NY or the end of McAdoo as coach. I don't see both being here next year!
2) I am starting to see a pattern where he does seem like he is throwing ELI under the bus. Not completely but subtly jabs here and there that seem like he has an issue with Eli. Go back to a year ago where he said Eli has to be able to throw from a dirty pocket (meaning guys around him, near his feet etc.) and not all pass plays can be blocked out perfectly. That to me says Eli isn't the kind of QB he likes in his system (he is no Aaron Rodgers, no Wilson, No Winston, Newton etc) as he has very limited mobility. I feel like the stubborn comments about the Oline not as bad as people say is more a comment about ELI not being able to help them by avoiding the rush and throwing on the run. It is almost like he is letting off frustration at being saddled with a QB who he doesn't see in his offense and especially long term.
I truly believe we are seeing the end of ELI in NY or the end of McAdoo as coach. I don't see both being here next year!
I agree with you completely, and based on that, it makes me believe that McAdoo sold Mara and/or Reese a false bill of goods, because I'm absolutely sure they asked him if Eli could be the guy in his system, and that he would be finishing out his contract (that he had just signed), and his final years, here.
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1) Why can't people question McAdoo and his ability to coach? We were 11-5 last year because of our defense. The Offense was pathetic in many wins (both Dallas games, the Saints game, Ravens and Lions) and has now strung together quite the stretch of offensive ineptitude. His demeanor in press conferences is annoying because it seems FAKE, copy cat almost. You are no BB and do not have his resume (The guy had multiple SB appearances as a DC long before multiple appearances and wins as a HC).
2) I am starting to see a pattern where he does seem like he is throwing ELI under the bus. Not completely but subtly jabs here and there that seem like he has an issue with Eli. Go back to a year ago where he said Eli has to be able to throw from a dirty pocket (meaning guys around him, near his feet etc.) and not all pass plays can be blocked out perfectly. That to me says Eli isn't the kind of QB he likes in his system (he is no Aaron Rodgers, no Wilson, No Winston, Newton etc) as he has very limited mobility. I feel like the stubborn comments about the Oline not as bad as people say is more a comment about ELI not being able to help them by avoiding the rush and throwing on the run. It is almost like he is letting off frustration at being saddled with a QB who he doesn't see in his offense and especially long term.
I truly believe we are seeing the end of ELI in NY or the end of McAdoo as coach. I don't see both being here next year!
I agree with you completely, and based on that, it makes me believe that McAdoo sold Mara and/or Reese a false bill of goods, because I'm absolutely sure they asked him if Eli could be the guy in his system, and that he would be finishing out his contract (that he had just signed), and his final years, here.
Makes one wonder what that last year, year and half was like for TC with McAdoo there.. Sure seems like B.McAdoo has changed a bit now that he has the control.
fool proof
Don't Win Championship = Coach needs to be fired
I'm not saying the OL needs to be the best, just be adequate. Right now the league, the players, the press/analysts/media, and the fans all see it sucks. When will the coaching staff stop being so stubborn.
I'm not saying the OL needs to be the best, just be adequate. Right now the league, the players, the press/analysts/media, and the fans all see it sucks. When will the coaching staff stop being so stubborn.
Bingo.
All we heard all camp is how Flowers looked horrible. It's now translating to games, and getting the offense and Eli in trouble.
A good coach stays patient sometimes, but also has to know when to make a move and realize a player just isnt't the right fit.
Flowers needs to be moved somewhere away from LT, whether that's the other side or the bench.
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OL first - where's the evidence of this?
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Our first Superbowl team was absolutely built on that philosophy.
The first thing Coughlin said in his introductory press conference was getting back to "Giants Football" and "controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball".
Within his first year of being here we added Snee, O'hara, and McKenzie, and already had Diehl and Suebert, and then Jacobs and Bradshaw. We have a major power running game and inflicted our will on other teams from the LOS.
We had two RB's go for 1000 yards each in 2008.
And he's building the same thing in JAX right now.
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In comment 13607969 jcn56 said:
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OL first - where's the evidence of this?
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Our first Superbowl team was absolutely built on that philosophy.
The first thing Coughlin said in his introductory press conference was getting back to "Giants Football" and "controlling the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball".
Within his first year of being here we added Snee, O'hara, and McKenzie, and already had Diehl and Suebert, and then Jacobs and Bradshaw. We have a major power running game and inflicted our will on other teams from the LOS.
We had two RB's go for 1000 yards each in 2008.
And he's building the same thing in JAX right now.
He did it there the first time too.
2nd pick in the 1995 NFL Draft (first draft pick ever for the Jax franchise, Tom Coughlin the GM and Head Coach): Tony Bosselli.
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OL first - where's the evidence of this?
Hell, the two SB champions we had recently weren't built like that either.
The problem isn't putting more focus on the OL instead of WR/DE/etc. - it's that what we have invested on the OL has failed miserably. Reese's problem isn't architectural - he spent two #1s and a #2 on that line, and they're not very good (and one of them is flat out awful despite being a top ten pick).
Like Britt said....2007 was built around an OL and DL. 2011 was a gift from the football gods and Eli. That might have been one of the worst teams to ever win a Superbowl.
If your are gonna have a bad OL....you need a QB that can run like hell.
This team is still built the same way at DL. As far as the OL in 07 - the only significant resource spent on that line was the cash to acquire KM at RT. Otherwise, O'Hara was a mid-tier signing from the Browns in 04. Seubert an undrafted FA. Diehl? A 5th round pick. Snee, a 2nd rounder.
They all played well, don't get me wrong. But they weren't the Hogs. They were a good, not great OL. And they didn't represent some fundamental difference in investing in or building a team. The major different - they picked better players, even if they were picked later or for less money.
You can't run block and pass block. That's game, set, match. You can't scheme for that and actually win games.
Matt Harvey will replace Eli at QB
Carmelo Anthony will replace Odell at WR
This could work Melo finds a sport where he catches a pass & doesn't have to pass it again!
have John Jerry starting everyone and there brother says you
don't draft Guards high because there easy to come by .
You take Bobby Hart who most pun-dents thought could work his way into a serviceable guard not a tackle .
We drafted Pugh to play tackle where he did not fare all that
well now he is a decent guard . We take a center in Richberg
thats technically sound but can't anchor or move the DT's he faces and many times is physically overwhelmed .
So it really does not say much for talent evaluation .
Does McADoo even know the concept of max protect? Especially when you have playmakers at WR.
It’s easy to blame the GM. But they’re getting their ass kicked on the headsets
Never mind that there's a solid two way TE just rotting on the bench while one of the big 3 at WR wasn't even able to play.
But you're right...it's the OL and Reese. It's always that isn't it.
I've seen shittier OLs be hidden better than McAdoo has hidden this one. Don't tell me this is the worst OL in the history of the NFL and even if it is, the WRs, TEs and QB are good enough to at least elevate this unit to just bad. Right now it's historically terrible.
IF you think this is all on the OL, every single aspect of this failure is on the OL, you're a frickin fool. It's never that simple. This is a fundamental failure of the highest order. You don't play THIS BADLY just off a struggling OL. No fucking way. The 2003 OL was worse and they scored more points than this team is scoring.