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Why is Ellison only playing about 35% of the time?

djm : 9/20/2017 9:55 am
Shane Smith hardly plays at all. Ellison played 39% of the snaps week 1. 34% week 2. Shane Smith barely plays at all.

Beckham has been hurt. The Giants have Ellison a ton of money in the offseason. The Giants OL and running game is stuck in neutral. Ellison, from all accounts had a great camp. He caught everything. He blocked everyone. Now he is all but an after thought. And again, Beckham has been hurt so it's not like the Giants have the holy trinity of WRs sitting there needing burn, and Marshall has fucking sucked on top things.

Not one media member asked McAdoo this question. I'll tell you right now, you can bet your ass Reese is asking McAdoo WTF he's doing with the offense...

Not McAdoo would give us any kind of legit answer or anything.

Am I the only one losing his mind over Ellison's lack of playing time???? This offense is BEGGING for the TE sets. They have TWO if not THREE legit TEs on the roster!!! What the hell is going on...

McAdoo is scaring the hell out of me. WHy carry a FB if he isn't going to play? Why spend 25 million on a TE that is playing less than Bear Pascoe! WTf...I still haven't cooled off from MNF.
no  
djm : 9/20/2017 9:59 am : link
instead let's run that god damned 11 personnel all night long. Run MArshall out there for nearly every snap even though he isn't getting open and isn't catching jack shit. Let's run Shepard out there too and give him a short side reverse so he can get decapitated. And let's run Beckham out there all night long even though the dude can barely run.

Ellison, sorry, thanks for coming, but you're nothing more than Bob Morasko here. FB? Who needs a FB. Not this team.

McAdoo needs to give up the diner menu. And now. No more playcalling there Ben. Just do what you do...motivate. No more playcalling. No more. Please.
More Ellison  
YAJ2112 : 9/20/2017 9:59 am : link
means less Engram if in 1 TE or less Shepard if 2 TEs. Same for Shane, it means less for those 3 players. Doesn't mean they shouldn't do that to add more diversity to the O, but it does come at a cost for snaps for other key players.
let it out..  
Peppers : 9/20/2017 10:00 am : link
...
I wouldn't want to play someone  
Rocky369 : 9/20/2017 10:01 am : link
based on their salary. He was signed as a need prior to the draft. Has Engram overtaken him on the depth chart? On Engrams TD, the announcers noted that the defense should have known he wasn't lined up as a lead blocker on the play. Yet prior to that, very similar line up, he was just that, lead block on a run. That particular move was a positive on Monday night.
RE: More Ellison  
BigBlueinChicago : 9/20/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13608130 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
means less Engram if in 1 TE or less Shepard if 2 TEs. Same for Shane, it means less for those 3 players. Doesn't mean they shouldn't do that to add more diversity to the O, but it does come at a cost for snaps for other key players.


I thought the idea was for Engram to be used in a variety of way, including being placed in the slot at times to create matchup problems against slower LB's or undersized slot CB's or safeties? Allowing Ellison to play the role of blocker.

So far, it just looks like Engram is simply running Tye's routes from last year and just doing it with more speed.
if you had told me back in June  
djm : 9/20/2017 10:03 am : link
that McAdoo was going to lean on 11 personnel again and all but ignore Ellison and even Smith, i'd want him fired on the spot.

I am as loyal and supportive and patient as any Giants fan. I always give the HC time and plenty of rope, especially if the guy wins like Ben did last year. Not now. If this guy doesn't change his approach I am done with him. I'd take Jim Fassel over this guy and not think twice.

He's running things so poorly on offense it's actually unbelievable to me. I would not have believed any of it if you told me this back in June.
RE: More Ellison  
djm : 9/20/2017 10:05 am : link
In comment 13608130 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
means less Engram if in 1 TE or less Shepard if 2 TEs. Same for Shane, it means less for those 3 players. Doesn't mean they shouldn't do that to add more diversity to the O, but it does come at a cost for snaps for other key players.


Run two TEs! Fuck Marshall or Shepard. This isn't Jerry Rice and Dwight Clark circa 1985 here.

WHy the hell did they sign Ellison then?

This offense needs more toughness on every down. It's begging for Ellison and Engram to be a focal point and you can still rotate in the big 3 at WR and get them plenty of burn. Plenty. There's no reason to ignore Ellison here. None.

The guy is lost. It's clear.
He is the blocking TE ...  
Beer Man : 9/20/2017 10:06 am : link
The team can't seem to run the ball, so they pass more. Consequently Ellison sees the field less. Mac doesn't seem to think it is necessary to use him to help our young struggling LT.
i'd like to see  
Les in TO : 9/20/2017 10:06 am : link
more two tight end or two tight end and a fullback/running back set with beckham spread wide. helps the tackles, commit to the running game, take your chances with play action.
RE: RE: More Ellison  
djm : 9/20/2017 10:07 am : link
In comment 13608142 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 13608130 YAJ2112 said:


Quote:


means less Engram if in 1 TE or less Shepard if 2 TEs. Same for Shane, it means less for those 3 players. Doesn't mean they shouldn't do that to add more diversity to the O, but it does come at a cost for snaps for other key players.



I thought the idea was for Engram to be used in a variety of way, including being placed in the slot at times to create matchup problems against slower LB's or undersized slot CB's or safeties? Allowing Ellison to play the role of blocker.

So far, it just looks like Engram is simply running Tye's routes from last year and just doing it with more speed.


And that too! You can use Engram as the H back and take the god awful RBs off the field. Run Engram or Ellison out of the H --line the other TE inline and use Shep, Beck and Marshall...

It's fucking sickening to me how badly McAdoo has mucked things up. This offense has NO identity. None. It has no cohesion. No imagination. It's just 11 all night long and they run the same pop gun horse shit offense and fail and fail and fail and fail. Rinse. Repeat.

This is bad.
I feel you have watched him  
Carl in CT : 9/20/2017 10:07 am : link
He has missed a lot of blocks already. Hasn't been that effective.
With his speed,  
Doomster : 9/20/2017 10:08 am : link
Double E should be running deeper routea to help spread the defense....

As for Ellison, he may be a good blocker, but he is s slug like Tye....
RE: He is the blocking TE ...  
djm : 9/20/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13608150 Beer Man said:
Quote:
The team can't seem to run the ball, so they pass more. Consequently Ellison sees the field less. Mac doesn't seem to think it is necessary to use him to help our young struggling LT.


Ellison can catch the ball too. But why let that stop McAdoo.

RE: I feel you have watched him  
djm : 9/20/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13608155 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
He has missed a lot of blocks already. Hasn't been that effective.


He's barely playing. He's probably missing blocks if he's lined up as the FB.

Line the guy up inline and let him lock into his man. It can't be worse can it?

So either Ellison can't block and was a waste of money or McAdoo just refuses to budge from his 11.
The Giants should be far more multiple on offense  
blueblood : 9/20/2017 10:10 am : link
providing different looks and different packages. They should easily be able to play 11,12,22 and even 13 personnel easily..

They should be able to create different packages and looks to confuse defenses placed on personnel. They did exactly that on the Engram TD.

If I remember correctly they started out in an 11 personnel. 3 WR's, 1 TE and 1 RB. The RB is Darkwa. They moved Engram into the HB/FB sport. This dictates to the defense 20 Personnel (3wr's, 2 RB's ) and with Darkwa it indicated a run scheme.

Engram goes THROUGH the line, Eli play fakes to Darkwa.. Freezes the LB's and draws the safeties up because of the run key.. Engram runs past.. He is too fast for them to recover.. Easy TD..

The Giants should be able to do things like this ALL THE TIME!!!
it's fireable  
family progtitioner : 9/20/2017 10:15 am : link
IMO. Can't stand this guy. Worst offense in the NFL, folks, welcome your NYG! 3 and out, 3 and out, INT, FG. 1 TD and 13 points in 2 games. Let's not play a legit TE so they can trot out the same, tired, 11 personal over and over again. It's mind boggling tome but I'm sure McAdoo has some arcane reason he's doing it. SMH
RE: i'd like to see  
BillKo : 9/20/2017 10:32 am : link
In comment 13608153 Les in TO said:
Quote:
more two tight end or two tight end and a fullback/running back set with beckham spread wide. helps the tackles, commit to the running game, take your chances with play action.


I'm with that. Helps protect your QB too.
I don't understand  
Jay on the Island : 9/20/2017 10:35 am : link
The offensive line is struggling mightily and they have one of the best blocking TE's in football sitting on the bench when he could provide help to the OT's. Instead of using 3 WR's use Beckham and Shepard with Engram in a two TE set.
The worst part is...  
BillKo : 9/20/2017 10:36 am : link
..and I continue to harp on it, not using double TE and the FB in goal line situations.

Look at the last two games.......we get down there and punching it in is very important.

Versus Dallas...you score, it's 13-7. An entirely new game.

Same for Detroit....yous score and it's 17-14.

Instead, we go spread formation on the first play each time.

You can throw to TE's on LB's.....that's a huge advantage esp with an athletic guy like Engram.
Calm down guys.  
fivehead : 9/20/2017 10:39 am : link
It's early in the season. Mcadoo is playing it close to the vest, to not give away our good plays. Ellison and Smith will be used when Mac opens up the running game, and then WATCH OUT! Hoooo-boy, it's about to get good!
we finally have good or even great TEs  
djm : 9/20/2017 10:54 am : link
we spent valuable resources to gain these TEs....and we aren't using them! Instead, they are running one hobbled WR and two average WRs out there on over 90% of the action.

This is a disaster. This offense has the personnel to perform at a higher level. I am certain of it.
RE: The worst part is...  
blueblood : 9/20/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13608201 BillKo said:
Quote:
..and I continue to harp on it, not using double TE and the FB in goal line situations.

Look at the last two games.......we get down there and punching it in is very important.

Versus Dallas...you score, it's 13-7. An entirely new game.

Same for Detroit....yous score and it's 17-14.

Instead, we go spread formation on the first play each time.

You can throw to TE's on LB's.....that's a huge advantage esp with an athletic guy like Engram.


Or a 6'5" Ellison or a 6'5" Adams
Coaching Staff  
Rflairr : 9/20/2017 11:09 am : link
That doesn’t know how to game plan or make adjustments.
He is a blocking tight end....  
Sy'56 : 9/20/2017 11:14 am : link
and the team's biggest weakness is....blocking.

And show me a play where targeting him has NOT resulted in a 10 yard gain.

You are right, Ellison needs more playing time.
RE: RE: The worst part is...  
BillKo : 9/20/2017 11:19 am : link
In comment 13608230 blueblood said:
Quote:
In comment 13608201 BillKo said:


Quote:


..and I continue to harp on it, not using double TE and the FB in goal line situations.

Look at the last two games.......we get down there and punching it in is very important.

Versus Dallas...you score, it's 13-7. An entirely new game.

Same for Detroit....yous score and it's 17-14.

Instead, we go spread formation on the first play each time.

You can throw to TE's on LB's.....that's a huge advantage esp with an athletic guy like Engram.



Or a 6'5" Ellison or a 6'5" Adams


Furthermore...wasn't it New England that seemed to be going to a more TE offense a few years ago?

We have three pretty good ones I think....ones that could exploit LB's or smaller DB's.

This is where a good coach adapts and reacts to what is happening.

Coaching is going to pull us out of this funk, if it's to happen.
RE: He is a blocking tight end....  
njm : 9/20/2017 11:25 am : link
In comment 13608255 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
and the team's biggest weakness is....blocking.

And show me a play where targeting him has NOT resulted in a 10 yard gain.

You are right, Ellison needs more playing time.


It's particularly puzzling given Beckham's injury. They seem to be choosing to stay in an 11 and use the #4 WR rather than increase snap counts for the FB and/or TE.

BTW, Smith is getting a lot of snaps on STs, so he's not totally going to waste.
RE: He is a blocking tight end....  
DonQuixote : 9/20/2017 11:42 am : link
In comment 13608255 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
and the team's biggest weakness is....blocking.

And show me a play where targeting him has NOT resulted in a 10 yard gain.

You are right, Ellison needs more playing time.


I agree. He looks like an excellent pickup and could be used more.
RE: He is a blocking tight end....  
djm : 9/20/2017 11:42 am : link
In comment 13608255 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
and the team's biggest weakness is....blocking.

And show me a play where targeting him has NOT resulted in a 10 yard gain.

You are right, Ellison needs more playing time.


THANK YOU!
RE: I don't understand  
BigBlueinChicago : 9/20/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13608197 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
The offensive line is struggling mightily and they have one of the best blocking TE's in football sitting on the bench when he could provide help to the OT's. Instead of using 3 WR's use Beckham and Shepard with Engram in a two TE set.


That to me speaks of the personality of what they are trying to stubbornly do on offense to little success.

They want to keep pushing the ball rather than slow themselves down and settle for 5 to 6 yard gains to get the ball down the field.

That would be the only reason. When they go to 2 TE or 2 WR or even 3 TE, he is not truly committed to that because that is not what he believes in.
Agreed.  
Brown Recluse : 9/20/2017 11:57 am : link
Fans know nothing though. We should just trust the coaches because they are the ones that see the players every day in practice. haha.
Agreed  
Giantfan in skinland : 9/20/2017 12:16 pm : link
Ellison, Adams, and Engram SHOULD provide the Giants with a lot of versatility to help the OL AND attack in the passing and run games. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of our best plays so far this season involve one of these guys. They're all versatile and athletic enough to be used in a variety of ways. A lot of people on this site seem to think fans are not allowed to criticize a coach for a lack of creativity, but this is one area where I think Mac is very clearly failing. TE has become a strength on this team....we need to utilize it far more than we have in the first two games.
RE: RE: He is a blocking tight end....  
Watson : 9/20/2017 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13608332 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13608255 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


and the team's biggest weakness is....blocking.

And show me a play where targeting him has NOT resulted in a 10 yard gain.

You are right, Ellison needs more playing time.



THANK YOU!


We can all complain about Flowers but this kid has not been given any support (except in press conferences). Why Ellison isn't lined up to provide help is beyond me. Robinson struggled with Vernon. Lions gave TE help. What a novel idea!
RE: The worst part is...  
NYBEN1963 : 9/20/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13608201 BillKo said:
Quote:
..and I continue to harp on it, not using double TE and the FB in goal line situations.

Look at the last two games.......we get down there and punching it in is very important.

Versus Dallas...you score, it's 13-7. An entirely new game.

Same for Detroit....yous score and it's 17-14.

Instead, we go spread formation on the first play each time.

You can throw to TE's on LB's.....that's a huge advantage esp with an athletic guy like Engram.
One of the positives so far this year has been their  
barens : 9/20/2017 2:31 pm : link
tight ends. All three look like they should be on the field more.
RE: The worst part is...  
NYBEN1963 : 9/20/2017 2:33 pm : link
In comment 13608201 BillKo said:
Quote:
..and I continue to harp on it, not using double TE and the FB in goal line situations.

Look at the last two games.......we get down there and punching it in is very important.

Versus Dallas...you score, it's 13-7. An entirely new game.

Same for Detroit....yous score and it's 17-14.

Instead, we go spread formation on the first play each time.

You can throw to TE's on LB's.....that's a huge advantage esp with an athletic guy like Engram.



We are sharing a brain on this one from the 2 yard line you should be in a power formation and run it 4 times if you have to..same thing in dallas from the 4 yard line you run it 4 freaking times from a 2 or 3 TE formation with the FB in there in front of Darkwa. Think of the boost it would have given the offensive line that desperately needs something to feel good about
He's not that good  
HomerJones45 : 9/20/2017 2:37 pm : link
Ellison was such a stud TE that Minnesota was trying to make him into a fullback. His run blocking the other night stank and he's a slug as a runner. It was hubris on the HC's part to say "we felt he was underutilized". Really? Then why aren't you using him if he's so great.

If you guys expect Ellison to be some vast improvement, good luck.
I don't necessarily agree  
Giantfan in skinland : 9/20/2017 2:38 pm : link
that you have to run. That said, bring TEs in and working out of a formation that threatens run/pass seems to me to be far more preferable than working out of shotgun with 3 wide or an empty backfield.
RE: RE: More Ellison  
Britt in VA : 9/20/2017 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13608149 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13608130 YAJ2112 said:


Quote:


means less Engram if in 1 TE or less Shepard if 2 TEs. Same for Shane, it means less for those 3 players. Doesn't mean they shouldn't do that to add more diversity to the O, but it does come at a cost for snaps for other key players.



Run two TEs! Fuck Marshall or Shepard. This isn't Jerry Rice and Dwight Clark circa 1985 here.

WHy the hell did they sign Ellison then?

This offense needs more toughness on every down. It's begging for Ellison and Engram to be a focal point and you can still rotate in the big 3 at WR and get them plenty of burn. Plenty. There's no reason to ignore Ellison here. None.

The guy is lost. It's clear.


I read that post like this scene, what can you do at this point other than laugh?

"Mortimer, your brother is not well..."

"F-ck him!"

Britt  
djm : 9/20/2017 6:48 pm : link
Lol! If you don't laugh you'd cry...
RE: He's not that good  
SHO'NUFF : 9/20/2017 7:23 pm : link
In comment 13608633 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
Ellison was such a stud TE that Minnesota was trying to make him into a fullback. His run blocking the other night stank and he's a slug as a runner. It was hubris on the HC's part to say "we felt he was underutilized". Really? Then why aren't you using him if he's so great.

If you guys expect Ellison to be some vast improvement, good luck.


So now BBI hates Ellison? smh...
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