for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Michael Robinson just destroyed the Giants on local radio

Britt in VA : 9/21/2017 8:34 am
Michael Robinson lives here in Richmond, and goes in studio once a week with a local radio host. First question of the day: "What team, good or bad, has surprised you the most?" He said the Giants, and said the following things in order:

-worst offensive line in the NFL by far
-Erik Flowers worst offensive tackle in the NFL by far
-Brandon Marshall looks like he doesn't want to play
-DE's are holding meetings at Eli Manning because they're beating both tackles so badly, Eli won't make it through the season
-Paul Perkins should not be a starting RB
-says max protect won't do any good because the defense never has to bring more than 4 guys, 3 of them are getting to Eli Manning every time regardless of protection, and there's nowhere to throw the ball because all passing lanes are flooded with seven defenders constantly.

He sounded genuinely shocked that the situation could be this bad, and says he plans on showing video on NFL Network of just how bad our line is on NFL Network Sunday morning.
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |  Next>>
I am so disgusted with how this team's management is treating Eli  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/21/2017 11:36 am : link
He should be treated like the freakin hero he is. What the fuck!

The guy is probably going to feel the effects of this punishment for the rest of his life.
RE: I am so disgusted with how this team's management is treating Eli  
dpinzow : 9/21/2017 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13609442 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
He should be treated like the freakin hero he is. What the fuck!

The guy is probably going to feel the effects of this punishment for the rest of his life.


No doubt...this line is taking quality years off of Eli's post-football life. He was fortunate not to take a serious injury this past Monday
Buffalo sports radio  
family progtitioner : 9/21/2017 12:07 pm : link
is also discussing the Giants. Not so much ripping them but they're concerned they're going to be competitors for drafting a QB in 2018.
O-Line doesn't seem to like contact  
moespree : 9/21/2017 12:10 pm : link
It's not that they don't try, I know that Flowers supposedly works very hard and is trying. It's that when you see the replays or watch just them after the snap they are not recovering after initial impact from the D-Lineman. It's as if some of them don't like being hit. Which is shocking and mind boggling seeing the position they play involves contact on literally every play. But this is the impression I get. D-Lineman makes hard contact in the chest or arms and the Giants offensive lineman folds up and because of that D-Lineman goes right by him. On basically every play. Because of this, I see no reason to think it's going to get any better.
If Newhouse is so great  
DavidinBMNY : 9/21/2017 12:12 pm : link
Does that point the finger at coaching? On our team Newhouse was average. Now he's doing great in Oakland. What does that say? Same player.
RE: It's interesting....  
Mike from Ohio : 9/21/2017 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13609327 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
on all the talk shows, on the radio shows, etc.... I hear a lot of the things Michael Robinson mentioned being the issues, but also like Robinson, I don't hear anybody putting blame on Eli.

Then I come here, and a decent size contingent of posters seem to want to put Eli near the top of the issues.

It's kind of strange.


So when the national media shits on Eli, they are biased and don't pay enough attention like the folks on BBI. When they relieve Eli of all responsibility for how bad the offense is, they are much more perceptive than BBI?

I am not an Eli basher or apologist. I think he is not the source of the problem but he is also not part of the solution. But these posts are biased to a pretty silly extent.
Let's go max protect as our base offense  
SHO'NUFF : 9/21/2017 12:22 pm : link
and see what happens... If they can't get through with 3 men, they'll use 4... If they can't get through with 4, they'll add another and open up some passing lanes. We have nothing to lose by trying this.
RE: RE: It's interesting....  
Britt in VA : 9/21/2017 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13609529 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 13609327 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


on all the talk shows, on the radio shows, etc.... I hear a lot of the things Michael Robinson mentioned being the issues, but also like Robinson, I don't hear anybody putting blame on Eli.

Then I come here, and a decent size contingent of posters seem to want to put Eli near the top of the issues.

It's kind of strange.



So when the national media shits on Eli, they are biased and don't pay enough attention like the folks on BBI. When they relieve Eli of all responsibility for how bad the offense is, they are much more perceptive than BBI?

I am not an Eli basher or apologist. I think he is not the source of the problem but he is also not part of the solution. But these posts are biased to a pretty silly extent.


Think about it this way... The media has sh-t on Eli his whole career. A little odd that they're not taking this opportunity to use it to further that agenda, unless they know they'll look foolish doing so.
Eli is not done, not close.  
Britt in VA : 9/21/2017 12:27 pm : link
If it's not here it will be somewhere else (which I HIGHLY doubt).
Barring catastrophic injury this season due to getting killed behind..  
Britt in VA : 9/21/2017 12:28 pm : link
this wonderful line that Mr. Reese has assembled for him.
Britt  
Mike from Ohio : 9/21/2017 12:29 pm : link
The offensive line is the story. By criticizing Eli they cut down their own story. I would not draw the conclusion that since nobody is blaming Eli, everyone thinks Eli is doing everything he possibly can.

If you can't see that Eli is missing the few opportunities that are there for him in each game, I'm not sure what to say.
He's not, and can't be, perfect...  
Britt in VA : 9/21/2017 12:31 pm : link
and perfection is what some of you expect.
RE: Robinson basically said that Eli's hands are tied and he fears for his  
HomerJones45 : 9/21/2017 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13609328 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
safety.

But some here can't see that, and insist that despite everything, he needs to elevate things. I just don't see how he can.
There are people who have an emotional stake in Ben and Jerry having been the right call.
RE: Britt  
JonC : 9/21/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13609560 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
The offensive line is the story. By criticizing Eli they cut down their own story. I would not draw the conclusion that since nobody is blaming Eli, everyone thinks Eli is doing everything he possibly can.

If you can't see that Eli is missing the few opportunities that are there for him in each game, I'm not sure what to say.


It's been increasing in frequency since 2015 season began.
Ran one of the greatest coaches in Giants history out of town...  
Britt in VA : 9/21/2017 12:34 pm : link
might as well do the same to the greatest QB in Giants history, because I'm sure the next guy will solve all these problems.
RE: Britt  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/21/2017 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13609560 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
The offensive line is the story. By criticizing Eli they cut down their own story. I would not draw the conclusion that since nobody is blaming Eli, everyone thinks Eli is doing everything he possibly can.

If you can't see that Eli is missing the few opportunities that are there for him in each game, I'm not sure what to say.


That's really not the main problem. Eli has always made his share of mistakes. It's really hard to see where Eli is at under these cobditions.

The OL is the main problem first and foremost. Fix that and then we can get a read on what Eli has left in the tank. I suspect we will never get that opportunity and we will be arguing this same point long after Eli retires.
Coughlin didn't get run out of town  
Go Terps : 9/21/2017 12:38 pm : link
The franchise was very good to him...better, in fact, than he was to it on the way out.
For better or worse  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/21/2017 12:42 pm : link
The longer this goes on the more I suspect they implode this offense next year and go with a QB more suited to McAdoo.

McAdoo will likely get a shot to do this with his own QB.
Do people really think McAdoo's criticism of Eli is real?  
Go Terps : 9/21/2017 12:43 pm : link
Really?
RE: Do people really think McAdoo's criticism of Eli is real?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2017 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13609581 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Really?


People are angry and looking for the easiest outlet available.
Britt  
Mike from Ohio : 9/21/2017 12:53 pm : link
He has missed some easy throws with no traffic in his face that could have impacted both games. Eli is not done, but his skills are very clearly on the decline.
RE: For better or worse  
Diver_Down : 9/21/2017 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13609580 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
The longer this goes on the more I suspect they implode this offense next year and go with a QB more suited to McAdoo.

McAdoo will likely get a shot to do this with his own QB.


If we are picking a QB with a high first round pick, that would imply this season had a losing record. Brylcream Ben and his staff was only given a 3 year contract. Are you implying that the F.O. will get a QB suited for a HC with only 1 year remaining on his contract? Or are you wanting to see Ben get an extension after 1 winning season and 1 losing season?
RE: Do people really think McAdoo's criticism of Eli is real?  
Mike from Ohio : 9/21/2017 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13609581 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Really?


Most people's beliefs are based on interpreting facts to fit their preconceived notions, not what a logical analysis tells them.
RE: RE: Do people really think McAdoo's criticism of Eli is real?  
Britt in VA : 9/21/2017 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13609599 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 13609581 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Really?



Most people's beliefs are based on interpreting facts to fit their preconceived notions, not what a logical analysis tells them.


Totally agree.
RE: RE: Robinson basically said that Eli's hands are tied and he fears for his  
T-Bone : 9/21/2017 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13609566 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13609328 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


safety.

But some here can't see that, and insist that despite everything, he needs to elevate things. I just don't see how he can.

There are people who have an emotional stake in Ben and Jerry having been the right call.


I would think all Giants fans would have this? That means the team is doing well. If you don't, then why wouldn't you? Is not seeing the team do well more important than whatever reason you have?
RE: RE: RE: Robinson basically said that Eli's hands are tied and he fears for his  
JonC : 9/21/2017 1:30 pm : link
In comment 13609608 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13609566 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 13609328 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


safety.

But some here can't see that, and insist that despite everything, he needs to elevate things. I just don't see how he can.

There are people who have an emotional stake in Ben and Jerry having been the right call.



I would think all Giants fans would have this? That means the team is doing well. If you don't, then why wouldn't you? Is not seeing the team do well more important than whatever reason you have?


Said fans tend to struggle with objectivity and understanding what is more likely reality.
RE: RE: RE: Do people really think McAdoo's criticism of Eli is real?  
Reb8thVA : 9/21/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13609603 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13609599 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


In comment 13609581 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Really?



Most people's beliefs are based on interpreting facts to fit their preconceived notions, not what a logical analysis tells them.



Totally agree.


Its deductive vs. inductive reasoning
RE: RE: RE: Since manning is being  
WillVAB : 9/21/2017 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13609341 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13609219 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 13609216 crick n NC said:


Quote:


paid 20mill he has to overcome.



Not true. He is only being paid $13 MM for 2017. Don't confuse cap hit with paid salary.


While that's accurate, the cap hit is what affects roster construction; paid salary is irrelevant. Eli represents ~12% of the overall salary cap for the Giants this season. That's one player, and it implies that he should be at least 6x more valuable than an average player just to get back to even for his cap number.

That's the important point, IMO - the OL isn't doing Eli any favors, but Eli's cap hit isn't doing the team any favors either if he needs significant roster support in order to be successful.


Unless you have a QB on a rookie deal you're gonna be overpaying at the QB spot. Just the way the league is.
RE: RE: For better or worse  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/21/2017 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13609597 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13609580 LakeGeorgeGiant said:


Quote:


The longer this goes on the more I suspect they implode this offense next year and go with a QB more suited to McAdoo.

McAdoo will likely get a shot to do this with his own QB.



If we are picking a QB with a high first round pick, that would imply this season had a losing record. Brylcream Ben and his staff was only given a 3 year contract. Are you implying that the F.O. will get a QB suited for a HC with only 1 year remaining on his contract? Or are you wanting to see Ben get an extension after 1 winning season and 1 losing season?


Where did I say what I "wanted"?

I'm suggesting that if Eli is on the downside they may not want to continue with 36 year old, old-school pocket passer that doesn't suit their offense.

They might very well can McAdoo, and if this season continues the way it's going he may very well deserve it.

Don't confuse my suggestions as to what might happen as what I want to happen.

Whatever happens, Eli's seasons are likely numbered.
RE: RE: RE: For better or worse  
Diver_Down : 9/21/2017 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13609804 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13609597 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 13609580 LakeGeorgeGiant said:


Quote:


The longer this goes on the more I suspect they implode this offense next year and go with a QB more suited to McAdoo.

McAdoo will likely get a shot to do this with his own QB.



If we are picking a QB with a high first round pick, that would imply this season had a losing record. Brylcream Ben and his staff was only given a 3 year contract. Are you implying that the F.O. will get a QB suited for a HC with only 1 year remaining on his contract? Or are you wanting to see Ben get an extension after 1 winning season and 1 losing season?



Where did I say what I "wanted"?

I'm suggesting that if Eli is on the downside they may not want to continue with 36 year old, old-school pocket passer that doesn't suit their offense.

They might very well can McAdoo, and if this season continues the way it's going he may very well deserve it.

Don't confuse my suggestions as to what might happen as what I want to happen.

Whatever happens, Eli's seasons are likely numbered.


I was prefacing the questions I posed to you based on your prior response that the
Code:
... go with a QB more suited to McAdoo.

McAdoo will likely get a shot to do this with his own QB.

Your suggestions (not "wants") seem to cater to a scenario that suits Ben. My suggestion that if the season goes into the shitter, why would the F.O. choose a QB suited for a HC that has 1 year remaining on his contract. And if the 1 year is limiting, than why would the F.O. give an extension to a HC with 1 winning season and 1 losing season?

I'll agree with you that whatever happens, Eli's seasons are likely numbered.
...  
christian : 9/21/2017 6:04 pm : link
There are plenty empirical, fact-based arguments that support Manning having performed average to below average on big chunks of his career, and lots of the folks on this thread have turned to the anecdotal and situational to defend him.

And point-of-fact I agree. Winning those 2 rings is really all that matters, and when the stories all said and done, no one will remember the shitty season when he led the lead league in picks.

But Manning has played significantly long enough to show that he's not flawless.
I don't think anyone is suggesting Eli is flawless  
Go Terps : 9/21/2017 6:46 pm : link
He isn't, and never has been.

If someone wants to suggest he's a problem, that's completely reasonable. But it is impossible to determine the extent to which he is a problem because the disastrous play of the offensive line overshadows everyone else on the team, including the coaching staff.

We can not do either of the following, and the trickle down effect is total:

- block a conventional pass rush
- run block in situations where defenses show 6 or even 5 defenders in the box

Opponents know that they don't have to blitz in order to destroy the timing of a passing play. That is simply not a tenable situation, and it renders the other 6 offensive players impotent.

Talking about Eli as the problem is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as the north Atlantic is being hit by an asteroid.
RE: Do people really think McAdoo's criticism of Eli is real?  
Devon : 9/21/2017 6:53 pm : link
In comment 13609581 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Really?


I'd question how, with yet another negative leak from the team about him today, something that's been happening with increasing frequency since McAdoo took over as HC and with how he's seemingly the only player he'll harshly single out (Eli isn't the only player who could ever take criticism and not crumble; that's insulting to everyone else) one would think it isn't.
He is probably right with his assessment .  
Bluesbreaker : 9/21/2017 8:03 pm : link
This team can't run the ball consistently they played 17
games last year just to prove it . To think that was gonna
change this year by adding a TE is delusional .
We just din't expect them to get worse in which they absolutely have .
On two or three of the sacks OBJ was wide open slanting 25
yards down field on another play Brandon Marshall had slipped
by two defenders all Eli had to do was float it to him easy
20 yards or more . Both times Eli had less than 3 seconds
he dropped the ball perfectly to Marshal again a good 30 yards down the field and he dropped . Then Adams got open
deep the pass wasn't perfect but it was the biggest play
of the game , Given time Eli can get the job done but with
no run game no QB is gonna work wonder unless he is Russel
Wilson .
Whats the big shock here ?
RE: RE: Since manning is being  
Modus Operandi : 9/21/2017 8:09 pm : link
In comment 13609219 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13609216 crick n NC said:


Quote:


paid 20mill he has to overcome.



Not true. He is only being paid $13 MM for 2017. Don't confuse cap hit with paid salary.


It's a $20M cap hit because of the $7M in bonus that's prorated and guaranteed and already paid.

That's a hell of a lot of money for a QB who's racking up losses.
RE: I don't think anyone is suggesting Eli is flawless  
Modus Operandi : 9/21/2017 8:12 pm : link
In comment 13610054 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He isn't, and never has been.

If someone wants to suggest he's a problem, that's completely reasonable. But it is impossible to determine the extent to which he is a problem because the disastrous play of the offensive line overshadows everyone else on the team, including the coaching staff.

We can not do either of the following, and the trickle down effect is total:

- block a conventional pass rush
- run block in situations where defenses show 6 or even 5 defenders in the box

Opponents know that they don't have to blitz in order to destroy the timing of a passing play. That is simply not a tenable situation, and it renders the other 6 offensive players impotent.

Talking about Eli as the problem is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as the north Atlantic is being hit by an asteroid.


Or...it's a practical view of a bad team that requires an overhaul and then weighing the benefit of paying a 37 year old QB $40M over the next two years and whether those assets can be better allocated.
MO  
Go Terps : 9/21/2017 8:22 pm : link
My views on paying a QB that kind of money are well documented here. Unless we have a generational player at the position I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a QB.
RE: Eli won a ring behind a subpar line  
JOrthman : 9/21/2017 8:30 pm : link
In comment 13609250 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
In 2011 and no running game. It's only week 3. We win this week and the narrative is a bit different. I'll wait to panic until after Sunday


The 2011 line was pretty decent in pass protection they just couldn't run block.
No sense in quoting and replying to each uninformed response.  
Diver_Down : 9/21/2017 8:34 pm : link
But his salary is NOT equivalent to his cap hit. Some poster early in the thread that it was "administrative footnote". But the reality is he is not being paid $20 MM this year. Nor will he be paid $40 MM over the next 2 years.

If any schmuck at a job got a bonus 3 years ago, they don't consider that they are being paid currently a pro-rated amount of that bonus. They are being paid what they receive that given year. Eli is only being paid $13 MM this year.

The pro-rating of a signing bonus and the accounting towards the salary cap is more of an "administrative footnote".

RE: MO  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2017 8:43 pm : link
In comment 13610124 Go Terps said:
Quote:
My views on paying a QB that kind of money are well documented here. Unless we have a generational player at the position I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a QB.


I am legitimately regretful that we'll never get to see you put together an NFL roster. I want to see what this would look like. The reason these players get this money is because good luck finding a quarterback that can play. They come along every handful of drafts and you're lucky to get one.
...  
christian : 9/21/2017 9:45 pm : link
The rules and governance of the league protect the QB disproportionately and over the longterm will prolong the valueable years of a quarterback. That alone supports the economics of investing in the position. Not that you can't find value in other positions, but in an economic system where you must invest to a floor, the quarterback is the equivalent of a T bill.

Not to even considering the per play value of a position who touches the ball on the vast majority of all offensive plays and has the ability to negatively impact every possession.

There are outliers. Every decade or so there are a few quarterbacks who peak early and that's a boon. And there are generational defenses that carry a team. Winning in the NFL already has a major element of chance, if you want to double down on it with hoping for an outlier that is one way to manage a roster.
RE: No sense in quoting and replying to each uninformed response.  
Modus Operandi : 9/21/2017 9:51 pm : link
In comment 13610142 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
But his salary is NOT equivalent to his cap hit. Some poster early in the thread that it was "administrative footnote". But the reality is he is not being paid $20 MM this year. Nor will he be paid $40 MM over the next 2 years.

If any schmuck at a job got a bonus 3 years ago, they don't consider that they are being paid currently a pro-rated amount of that bonus. They are being paid what they receive that given year. Eli is only being paid $13 MM this year.

The pro-rating of a signing bonus and the accounting towards the salary cap is more of an "administrative footnote".


So what you're saying is that he's paid $13M this season + a $7M prorated signing bonus for a total of $20M cap hit.

That's precisely what we've said. You're the one carrying on as if you invented cap economics.
RE: RE: MO  
Modus Operandi : 9/21/2017 9:55 pm : link
In comment 13610150 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13610124 Go Terps said:


Quote:


My views on paying a QB that kind of money are well documented here. Unless we have a generational player at the position I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a QB.



I am legitimately regretful that we'll never get to see you put together an NFL roster. I want to see what this would look like. The reason these players get this money is because good luck finding a quarterback that can play. They come along every handful of drafts and you're lucky to get one.


It's one thing to make your QB the highest paid player on the team. It's something else entirely to resign that player to what's probably a guaranteed 4 yr $84M deal at age 35 when he isn't playing particularly well.

That's the part I think Go Terps and I have an issue with.
A player's salary needs to be tied to his production..  
EricJ : 9/22/2017 7:47 am : link
that is what the money is buying. We need to remove the names and faces from the discussion and not make emotional decisions.

If you are paying a player a lot $$ it means you cannot use that money to buy production elsewhere. If he is not bringing back the return on the spend.. AND you allow that situation to continue, then you are not doing your job as a GM. There is no other way to look at it.

So, again taking the emotion out of it and what Eli has done for us 6-10 years ago, if we are not getting the return on the $20 in cap that his contract is costing us, then we need to make a change. That change FIRST would be to reduce that number and keep him. If that does not work, then moving on is the second option.

You cannot be scared to cut the ties eventually. If we were to do it now, what is the fear? going from the worst offense in the league to the worst offense in the league with additional funds available to sign Odell and improve the offensive line?

I know people like to say "this is not fantasy football". However, the daily games with the salary cap are a lot like this in a way. You are looking for value and production for the cost for that player. So, we need to fix the cost/value situation with Eli or find another option.
RE: RE: RE: MO  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/22/2017 9:08 am : link
In comment 13610235 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13610150 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13610124 Go Terps said:


Quote:


My views on paying a QB that kind of money are well documented here. Unless we have a generational player at the position I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a QB.



I am legitimately regretful that we'll never get to see you put together an NFL roster. I want to see what this would look like. The reason these players get this money is because good luck finding a quarterback that can play. They come along every handful of drafts and you're lucky to get one.



It's one thing to make your QB the highest paid player on the team. It's something else entirely to resign that player to what's probably a guaranteed 4 yr $84M deal at age 35 when he isn't playing particularly well.

That's the part I think Go Terps and I have an issue with.


Perhaps so, but in general he's vehemently opposed to paying anyone and it's unrealistic.
RE: RE: RE: RE: MO  
Modus Operandi : 9/22/2017 4:26 pm : link
In comment 13610505 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13610235 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


In comment 13610150 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13610124 Go Terps said:


Quote:


My views on paying a QB that kind of money are well documented here. Unless we have a generational player at the position I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a QB.



I am legitimately regretful that we'll never get to see you put together an NFL roster. I want to see what this would look like. The reason these players get this money is because good luck finding a quarterback that can play. They come along every handful of drafts and you're lucky to get one.



It's one thing to make your QB the highest paid player on the team. It's something else entirely to resign that player to what's probably a guaranteed 4 yr $84M deal at age 35 when he isn't playing particularly well.

That's the part I think Go Terps and I have an issue with.



Perhaps so, but in general he's vehemently opposed to paying anyone and it's unrealistic.


I don't know. I wont speak for GoTerps, but I specifically recall him opposing the Eli and JPP deals. Mostly because I agreed with him at the time.

JPP has been pretty okay so far.
RE: RE: No sense in quoting and replying to each uninformed response.  
Diver_Down : 9/22/2017 4:35 pm : link
In comment 13610228 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 13610142 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


But his salary is NOT equivalent to his cap hit. Some poster early in the thread that it was "administrative footnote". But the reality is he is not being paid $20 MM this year. Nor will he be paid $40 MM over the next 2 years.

If any schmuck at a job got a bonus 3 years ago, they don't consider that they are being paid currently a pro-rated amount of that bonus. They are being paid what they receive that given year. Eli is only being paid $13 MM this year.

The pro-rating of a signing bonus and the accounting towards the salary cap is more of an "administrative footnote".




So what you're saying is that he's paid $13M this season + a $7M prorated signing bonus for a total of $20M cap hit.

That's precisely what we've said. You're the one carrying on as if you invented cap economics.


That is not what you said -
Code:
Or...it's a practical view of a bad team that requires an overhaul and then weighing the benefit of paying a 37 year old QB $40M over the next two years and whether those assets can be better allocated.


Let me spell it out for you. He is not being paid $20 MM/year (or $40 MM over 2 years). The signing bonus was earned when he signed his contract. The pro-rating of that signing bonus is only for the accounting regarding the cap. But he is not being paid his cap hit.
RE: A player's salary needs to be tied to his production..  
Diver_Down : 9/22/2017 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13610408 EricJ said:
Quote:
that is what the money is buying. We need to remove the names and faces from the discussion and not make emotional decisions.

If you are paying a player a lot $$ it means you cannot use that money to buy production elsewhere. If he is not bringing back the return on the spend.. AND you allow that situation to continue, then you are not doing your job as a GM. There is no other way to look at it.

So, again taking the emotion out of it and what Eli has done for us 6-10 years ago, if we are not getting the return on the $20 in cap that his contract is costing us, then we need to make a change. That change FIRST would be to reduce that number and keep him. If that does not work, then moving on is the second option.

You cannot be scared to cut the ties eventually. If we were to do it now, what is the fear? going from the worst offense in the league to the worst offense in the league with additional funds available to sign Odell and improve the offensive line?

I know people like to say "this is not fantasy football". However, the daily games with the salary cap are a lot like this in a way. You are looking for value and production for the cost for that player. So, we need to fix the cost/value situation with Eli or find another option.


And to remove the emotion and names out of it, but if you make an investment based on current market conditions, doesn't it make sense to protect that investment? If the person you have hired to manage your investment, fails to do so, would you continue to employ that manager?
RE: RE: RE: No sense in quoting and replying to each uninformed response.  
Modus Operandi : 9/22/2017 4:43 pm : link
In comment 13611061 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13610228 Modus Operandi said:


Quote:


In comment 13610142 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


But his salary is NOT equivalent to his cap hit. Some poster early in the thread that it was "administrative footnote". But the reality is he is not being paid $20 MM this year. Nor will he be paid $40 MM over the next 2 years.

If any schmuck at a job got a bonus 3 years ago, they don't consider that they are being paid currently a pro-rated amount of that bonus. They are being paid what they receive that given year. Eli is only being paid $13 MM this year.

The pro-rating of a signing bonus and the accounting towards the salary cap is more of an "administrative footnote".




So what you're saying is that he's paid $13M this season + a $7M prorated signing bonus for a total of $20M cap hit.

That's precisely what we've said. You're the one carrying on as if you invented cap economics.



That is not what you said -

Code:


Or...it's a practical view of a bad team that requires an overhaul and then weighing the benefit of paying a 37 year old QB $40M over the next two years and whether those assets can be better allocated.



Let me spell it out for you. He is not being paid $20 MM/year (or $40 MM over 2 years). The signing bonus was earned when he signed his contract. The pro-rating of that signing bonus is only for the accounting regarding the cap. But he is not being paid his cap hit.


Let me spell it out for you. Semantics. His cap hit is $20M this season and roughly the same next. That $7M is used up and cannot be spent because it's already been paid.
RE: No sense in quoting and replying to each uninformed response.  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/22/2017 5:03 pm : link
In comment 13610142 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
But his salary is NOT equivalent to his cap hit. Some poster early in the thread that it was "administrative footnote". But the reality is he is not being paid $20 MM this year. Nor will he be paid $40 MM over the next 2 years.

If any schmuck at a job got a bonus 3 years ago, they don't consider that they are being paid currently a pro-rated amount of that bonus. They are being paid what they receive that given year. Eli is only being paid $13 MM this year.

The pro-rating of a signing bonus and the accounting towards the salary cap is more of an "administrative footnote".

The cap number is what matters. The cap number is what affects your ability to build your roster. The current salary is only a factor for the Giants' P&L, and THAT is the one element that is truly insignificant and irrelevant to us as fans. The true salary relative to cap number is much more of a footnote than looking at the cap number by itself.

This isn't about fans being upset that Eli is currently being paid more in his weekly paycheck than he's worth; it's about him representing a higher cap value than he's currently delivering upon, and further, whether that cap number actually impacts the Giants' ability to go get him the supporting cast (specifically the OL) that he seems to need. I'm not sure why I'd expect the person who only a few months ago repeatedly called for Eli to hold out for more money to actually understand this.
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner