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PDot on WFAN

Chris684 : 9/21/2017 11:13 am
Hart in wrap/boot, not promising.

Dottino seems at a loss for words about EF. Asks how he could have performed worse against Detroit than he did at any point last season.

Pugh ready to go at RT if need be.

Talking about relationship between Flowers's drop off and absence of Pugh. EF performance was down last season when Pugh was out and then again when Pugh shifted to RT.

PDot would put Fluker at RT.
Would always, ALWAYS  
Chris684 : 9/21/2017 11:14 am : link
Ellison or Shane Smith on the field to help out and chip.

Smith 4 snaps Monday night, what's the point of being on roster?
Ellison only 39% of snaps  
Chris684 : 9/21/2017 11:16 am : link
How so if considered a huge FA steal. They love him, Minnesota loved him.

Slow down the rush on Flowers's side by pounding the running game behind him.
Why not attempting more balls downfield  
Chris684 : 9/21/2017 11:18 am : link
earlier and more often?

Specific ball that Marshall dropped, why not attempt in 1st quarter?

Believes McAdoo should give up play calling.
RE: Why not attempting more balls downfield  
Giantology : 9/21/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13609414 Chris684 said:
Quote:
earlier and more often?

Specific ball that Marshall dropped, why not attempt in 1st quarter?

Believes McAdoo should give up play calling.


We tried going downfield on the first or second play against Detroit and it resulted in Eli getting sacked.
Says Sullivan has the credentials  
Chris684 : 9/21/2017 11:22 am : link
and is more than capable of play call duties.

Calls our chances of winning on Sunday a long shot.

Eagles are flawed team but their strength in d-line obviously lines up with our weakness.

Wentz gets rid of ball quick and moves around in pocket. Takes chances.

Eagles blocked 4 man rush well in KC but when dialed up added pressure Eagles o-line folded. Calls for Spags to be super aggressive this week.
That's all..  
Chris684 : 9/21/2017 11:22 am : link
..
Dottino should give the pre-game locker room speeches.  
bceagle05 : 9/21/2017 11:23 am : link
He was fired up.
agree the D has to be  
family progtitioner : 9/21/2017 11:25 am : link
hyper aggressive. It's their only chance, get some TOs and get off the field.
RE: Why not attempting more balls downfield  
BigBlue2112 : 9/21/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13609414 Chris684 said:
Quote:
earlier and more often?

Specific ball that Marshall dropped, why not attempt in 1st quarter?

Believes McAdoo should give up play calling.


There's no time for these routes to develop downfield. There's a reason there's only been a few attempts
RE: Why not attempting more balls downfield  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2017 11:44 am : link
In comment 13609414 Chris684 said:
Quote:
earlier and more often?

Specific ball that Marshall dropped, why not attempt in 1st quarter?

Believes McAdoo should give up play calling.


When the offensive line can block long enough for a receiver to get down field, that will be an option.

They dont do it.
A dirty collapsing pocket, and 2.6 seconds to throw, by definition  
PatersonPlank : 9/21/2017 11:46 am : link
eliminate a downfield route.
has anyone been listening to them on BBKOL on giants.com?  
mattlawson : 9/21/2017 11:46 am : link
what have they been saying? The Bob Papa report was absolutely crystal clear what the problems were and were as critical as anyone employed by the Giants I've heard this season.

Are we being shown the kool aid or are they keeping it real?
Moving  
Spyder : 9/21/2017 11:49 am : link
Flowers to RT has to happen. Really seems like they've been resisting this move when it's been rather obvious that's the only choice for him.

Or is it finally time to admit that the GM picked a bust with a very high draft pick? As Eli's clock ticks down, it really is a major issue for management. Fairly bad optics for them to not see this coming, no?
He was saying the same thing I kept saying  
Rflairr : 9/21/2017 11:52 am : link
in the game thread.

Reese spent good money on Ellison. Yet this dumb coach doesn’t use him to help the tackles or in the run game.

Also when you never run on consecutive plays, you give the DL confidence to attack off the ball as rushers. Because they know you aren’t going to run again.

It’s gameplanning and coaching that’s hurting. Lack of adjustments. Which is why he needs to give up play calling. Maybe he can see the game differently
umm how bad is it that Flowers needs Pugh next to him  
micky : 9/21/2017 11:53 am : link
or someone better in order for him to have any chance. yet, not good enough by himself?..what a bust
You can get the ball downfield in 2.6 seconds.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/21/2017 11:56 am : link
But you can only run a fade or seam route. It is possible. When a QB is under center you can run deep passes on three step drops. You can't run posts, corner routes, double moves, etc.

When the Cowboys sat in their areas is was basically a horizontal passing game or all within 10 yards. Dallas was able to squeeze up and those windows were very tight. You have to stretch the defense deep and we didn't do that against Dalls. We tried against Detoit but we saw a double move that took too long we say Adams have a catch downfield. We saw Marshall drop a pass downfield. It is possible to throw downfield with limited time in the pocket.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 9/21/2017 11:57 am : link
Quote:
has anyone been listening to them on BBKOL on giants.com?
mattlawson : 11:46 am : link : reply
what have they been saying? The Bob Papa report was absolutely crystal clear what the problems were and were as critical as anyone employed by the Giants I've heard this season.

Are we being shown the kool aid or are they keeping it real?

It was straight kool aid yesterday. Enough to annoy me. A few things I remember:

- What were the fans screaming for at the end of last season? The Oline? Nah. Tight ends, of course! And Reese upgraded that. So job well done.

- Coaching can't be an issue on the Oline since Solari has had success before.

- Don't even think of questioning the effort of ANY player on the team because one individual player tried to play with a sore ankle.

- How is any of this Mac's fault? He didn't drop the 30 yard pass to Marshall or the Engram pass.
RE: Moving  
robbieballs2003 : 9/21/2017 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13609470 Spyder said:
Quote:
Flowers to RT has to happen. Really seems like they've been resisting this move when it's been rather obvious that's the only choice for him.

Or is it finally time to admit that the GM picked a bust with a very high draft pick? As Eli's clock ticks down, it really is a major issue for management. Fairly bad optics for them to not see this coming, no?


That is worse than keeping him at LT. He has never played on the right side so now you want to keep him on an island with all of his technical flaws and have him learn to punch with a different hand kickslide and anchor down with different feet, etc.? That is not the move at all. In the offseason? Hell yeah, give it a shot. Now? No way in hell. Imo, they either start calling plays to help him out with a TE or a RB or they try him at LG. He wouldn't have to learn a whole new technique, he would still be next to Pugh, amd Richburg can help him out. All of this shit should have been done in the offseason and preseason. I have been beating this drum for 2 years. As a coach you always have to have a plan B. McAdoo has yet to understand that.
RE: You can get the ball downfield in 2.6 seconds.  
dpinzow : 9/21/2017 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13609494 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But you can only run a fade or seam route. It is possible. When a QB is under center you can run deep passes on three step drops. You can't run posts, corner routes, double moves, etc.

When the Cowboys sat in their areas is was basically a horizontal passing game or all within 10 yards. Dallas was able to squeeze up and those windows were very tight. You have to stretch the defense deep and we didn't do that against Dalls. We tried against Detoit but we saw a double move that took too long we say Adams have a catch downfield. We saw Marshall drop a pass downfield. It is possible to throw downfield with limited time in the pocket.


Those two routes (fade and seam) get picked off a lot when a QB is pressure into an inaccurate throw
RE: RE: You can get the ball downfield in 2.6 seconds.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/21/2017 12:10 pm : link
In comment 13609514 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 13609494 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


But you can only run a fade or seam route. It is possible. When a QB is under center you can run deep passes on three step drops. You can't run posts, corner routes, double moves, etc.

When the Cowboys sat in their areas is was basically a horizontal passing game or all within 10 yards. Dallas was able to squeeze up and those windows were very tight. You have to stretch the defense deep and we didn't do that against Dalls. We tried against Detoit but we saw a double move that took too long we say Adams have a catch downfield. We saw Marshall drop a pass downfield. It is possible to throw downfield with limited time in the pocket.



Those two routes (fade and seam) get picked off a lot when a QB is pressure into an inaccurate throw


I don't know if you have stats to support that or are just stating opinion but I didn't say the ball has to be thrown. Just running the route loosens up the D and helps open up the routes underneath that McAdoo loves to run.
RE: Ellison only 39% of snaps  
HomerJones45 : 9/21/2017 12:10 pm : link
In comment 13609409 Chris684 said:
Quote:
How so if considered a huge FA steal. They love him, Minnesota loved him.

Slow down the rush on Flowers's side by pounding the running game behind him.
Minnesota loved him so much they were trying to convert him to a fullback. They loved him so much they let him go without a tear. McAdoo said they felt he was "underutilized." So much for that.

The reality is that in his 5th season he's a slug who can block a little but has not blocked very well, at least on running plays, for us and has limited utility as a receiver. He's a role player, that's all.

Our genius GM gave a 28 year old role player a 4 year, 18 million dollar contract.
RE: RE: Moving  
Spyder : 9/21/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13609503 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13609470 Spyder said:


Quote:


Flowers to RT has to happen. Really seems like they've been resisting this move when it's been rather obvious that's the only choice for him.

Or is it finally time to admit that the GM picked a bust with a very high draft pick? As Eli's clock ticks down, it really is a major issue for management. Fairly bad optics for them to not see this coming, no?



That is worse than keeping him at LT. He has never played on the right side so now you want to keep him on an island with all of his technical flaws and have him learn to punch with a different hand kickslide and anchor down with different feet, etc.? That is not the move at all. In the offseason? Hell yeah, give it a shot. Now? No way in hell. Imo, they either start calling plays to help him out with a TE or a RB or they try him at LG. He wouldn't have to learn a whole new technique, he would still be next to Pugh, amd Richburg can help him out. All of this shit should have been done in the offseason and preseason. I have been beating this drum for 2 years. As a coach you always have to have a plan B. McAdoo has yet to understand that.


Yeah, I think we actually agree here, which is why I said it seems like they've been resisting this move. I should have added (like you said) that they have had two off seasons already to experiment with him at other positions, yet they resist even off season looks because it seems they don't want to admit that he is a bust at LT.

Reese says he likes to draft OL with versatility, but Flowers gives us none of that. He played RT as a freshmen at Miami, and it sure seems his skills and build are suited to that side.

OTOH, he can't do much worse then Jerry right now, so if he can move right in at G, so be it.

Or bench him, fine with me at this point, I think we've seen enough from him at LT.
Agree with Robbie  
SLIM_ : 9/21/2017 12:30 pm : link
We need to run deeper routes to loosen up the throwing lanes and box to run in. Maybe against the philosophy of McCarthy/McAdoo but no reason why we can't line up with 2 tight ends or fullback/tight end and max protect with Marshall/Beckham (when healthy going deep). If covered, you could always dump it to Engram/Vereen and they would have more room to run as the linebackers take deeper drops.
DE's  
JayinVT : 9/21/2017 12:35 pm : link
the DE's were meeting at the QB on three step drops, how the heck are you going to go downfield?
RE: Agree with Robbie  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2017 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13609561 SLIM_ said:
Quote:
We need to run deeper routes to loosen up the throwing lanes and box to run in. Maybe against the philosophy of McCarthy/McAdoo but no reason why we can't line up with 2 tight ends or fullback/tight end and max protect with Marshall/Beckham (when healthy going deep). If covered, you could always dump it to Engram/Vereen and they would have more room to run as the linebackers take deeper drops.


The pressure comes from up the middle just as much as from both sides. Max protect isn't the solution you think it is. It's always someone different on every breakdown. One play it's Hart, then Jerry, then flowers.
RE: Would always, ALWAYS  
njm : 9/21/2017 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13609404 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Ellison or Shane Smith on the field to help out and chip.

Smith 4 snaps Monday night, what's the point of being on roster?


Smith was in on all the ST plays, not that I wouldn't like to see him get some more snaps on offense.
With two weak tackles  
Tuckrule : 9/21/2017 1:40 pm : link
There is no width to the pocket so the only hung Eli can do is step up and since we have arguably the weakest(physically) center there is no depth to the picket either. This line is trash and Weston is a big part of that. He just isn't a good player and he's getting a free pass thanks to EF.
RE: Agree with Robbie  
bigbluehoya : 9/21/2017 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13609561 SLIM_ said:
Quote:
We need to run deeper routes to loosen up the throwing lanes and box to run in. Maybe against the philosophy of McCarthy/McAdoo but no reason why we can't line up with 2 tight ends or fullback/tight end and max protect with Marshall/Beckham (when healthy going deep). If covered, you could always dump it to Engram/Vereen and they would have more room to run as the linebackers take deeper drops.


I don't think you can start with that approach. The protection simply isn't allowing it.

I think the first step is make the DLs pay if they are going to pin their ears back. This means finding a way to make the run (particularly outside) work and/or finding a way to complete a screen pass and have SOMEBODY make a play with the ball in their hands.
Flowers can't be moved to starting RT in one week.  
Ivan15 : 9/21/2017 3:09 pm : link
Want to bench him for 2-3 weeks and then try it? Fine.

The only place Flowers can go in one week is LG. If the Giants make a move that keeps him as a starter, that is the only possible move until the bye week.

His replacement would have to be Wheeler if Pugh moves to RT.
RE: Ellison only 39% of snaps  
djm : 9/21/2017 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13609409 Chris684 said:
Quote:
How so if considered a huge FA steal. They love him, Minnesota loved him.

Slow down the rush on Flowers's side by pounding the running game behind him.


Don't get me fucking started...and the shane smith thing is just as weird.

RE: ==========  
djm : 9/21/2017 3:22 pm : link
In comment 13609498 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:


Quote:


has anyone been listening to them on BBKOL on giants.com?
mattlawson : 11:46 am : link : reply
what have they been saying? The Bob Papa report was absolutely crystal clear what the problems were and were as critical as anyone employed by the Giants I've heard this season.

Are we being shown the kool aid or are they keeping it real?


It was straight kool aid yesterday. Enough to annoy me. A few things I remember:

- What were the fans screaming for at the end of last season? The Oline? Nah. Tight ends, of course! And Reese upgraded that. So job well done.

- Coaching can't be an issue on the Oline since Solari has had success before.

- Don't even think of questioning the effort of ANY player on the team because one individual player tried to play with a sore ankle.

- How is any of this Mac's fault? He didn't drop the 30 yard pass to Marshall or the Engram pass.


How is any of this Mac's fault? Those upgraded TEs? Mac isn't playing the one we need the most right now.

That's his fault.
RE: RE: Ellison only 39% of snaps  
djm : 9/21/2017 3:23 pm : link
In comment 13609519 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13609409 Chris684 said:


Quote:


How so if considered a huge FA steal. They love him, Minnesota loved him.

Slow down the rush on Flowers's side by pounding the running game behind him.

Minnesota loved him so much they were trying to convert him to a fullback. They loved him so much they let him go without a tear. McAdoo said they felt he was "underutilized." So much for that.

The reality is that in his 5th season he's a slug who can block a little but has not blocked very well, at least on running plays, for us and has limited utility as a receiver. He's a role player, that's all.

Our genius GM gave a 28 year old role player a 4 year, 18 million dollar contract.


You're making shit up to support your horse shit narrative, as usual. Find another sack of crap to sling around here.

Eli with a clean pocket  
Bluesbreaker : 9/21/2017 8:22 pm : link
Another issues is the push up the middle on pass plays that
makes for a shorter route to the QB by the defensive ends
No QB likes the pressure up the middle he can't step up to
buy time Eli is always having to escape laterally and we know
how slow he is .
I am not gonna sit here and kill Marshal yes the drop was crucial but they have barely had time to bulid a relationship
on the field that damn Cleveland game set this offense back
worse than it should be .
The pre-season stunk we have to play the starters longer to
get the offense clicking it never happened .
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