He said that while they would never indicate their concern in regard to Eli publicly, behind the scenes they believe he is not helping them to overcome some of their deficiencies.
draft or otherwise hire him, Boomer has over the years taken every opportunity to bash Giants and especially Eli. So Boomer thanks for your work in CF, as for Giant commentary, go F yourself
He is losing a second because he has slowed down in his dropback and nobody respects the play action because they have a bad running game ....yes...but also because Eli doesn’t play fake well either .....even Geno Smith drops back faster .......the two fastest guys I’ve ever seen drop back are Montana and Aikman !!!!
a fit with this line. C'mon now. There isn't a type of QB that thrives behind a shitty line.
And Eli even has extended several plays in the first two games. He went down on one play untouched and now all of a sudden he's a crumpled mess?
This is fucking ponderous.
I hear you, but consider that Reese is not that incompetent. Nor was he incompetent when he gave TC a horrible defense, saw him depart and then promptly spent big $$$ . He suddenly became competent again after TC was released?
Many posters on this board have been hammering away about this oline for many seasons. Again is Reese and ownership REALLY that incompetent or is something else by played out?
Another thing to consider, what are/were the optics around the memorabilia?
Not sure that I will have interest in football anymore Â
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
You mean the Cowboys who last year had assembled the best OL in football and brought in a stud RB who handily led the NFL in rushing? If they looked at the Cowboys and came away with Daks mobility and smarts being the biggest factor in their success then go ahead and fire them now.
You give Eli that OL and that RB and we contest the Patriots superbowl dynasty.
RE: Not sure that I will have interest in football anymore Â
Then you're not going to be having interest fairly soon because there's no way it won't.
That was honestly always the case, but at least before there was a decent chance it was mostly kept behind the scenes. McAdoo (and to a much lesser extent Reese) clearly isn't here for that though and it's going to be public and not pretty.
How else the misfits survive this, Reese, McAdoo, and the entire coaching staff and the scouts, the only way is to blame this on Eli, if it's Eli, then put in the backup, but I guarantee you that won't happen, because that might expose them all. This entire thing is broke, the only reason this organization was able to get back to respectability is TOM COUGHLIN. Now that he is gone you have a misfit GM, nd misfit Head Coach. There was a reason why he blamed Eli for the timeout, name me any good coach that throws his QB under the bus. Fuck them all, blame it on Eli, keep everything in tact, and this organization will fall back into the same crap we saw in the mid 60's thru 70's. This blame starts with John Mara, if he is that blind to these two misfits, then he deserves what will follow and fans are getting disgusted with the NFL now anyway.
I'm really starting to believe this Organization is broken. I get Eli has struggled but come on!! Behind that Oline any QB including Brady would be a complete mess!! Really disturbing if true. As I said this is the reason the Giants are a huge mess, it starts at the top.
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
You mean the Cowboys who last year had assembled the best OL in football and brought in a stud RB who handily led the NFL in rushing? If they looked at the Cowboys and came away with Daks mobility and smarts being the biggest factor in their success then go ahead and fire them now.
You give Eli that OL and that RB and we contest the Patriots superbowl dynasty.
Thank you for responding the same way I was going to.
If Eli took Tom Brady momey the giants would be able to get a good tackle, i hope they ask him to take a pay cut. They cant cut him, but its a look we need the cash to keep you out of the hospital. He makes alot of money in endorsements too.
Maybe Eli could create a fake business like TB12, and call it, say, EM10... then have the Giants organization sign a lucrative contract with said company...then we can also cheat around the salary cap to be able to sign a big free agent.
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
In comment 13609868 Diver_Down said:
[quote] In comment 13609852 WillVAB said:
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In comment 13609835 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 13609827 WillVAB said:
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I say screw the Giants and ask for a trade to JAX.
If I'm Eli, I refuse a trade. He negotiated a contract with a no-trade clause. I play out the season and force the Giants to release him prior to the roster bonus coming due. This way, Eli can choose where he goes as a FA. If that so happens to be Jax, then so be it. But whatever team he signs with will negotiate based on current market value of QBs.
Good point. JAX would be a good landing spot though. Good young defense. Good running game. Solid OL. Coughlin connection. With Eli I think they'd be one receiver away from being a legit contender.
I think Jax would be ideal. And they have a ton of cap space to fit a QB contract. [/quot
the question is would the Jaguars want a 37 year old QB...
Let's not forget that Gilbride mentioned he sensed the offense being broken as far back as 2012.
Funny, that he would have considered that offense "broken" when it scored 35+ in 6 games and scored 40+ in 4 games.
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
I could be getting the year wrong. But I clearly recall an interview or or comments Gilbride made somewhere that mentioned he could see "signs" of the offense breaking or becoming broken. It came out maybe 6 months after he was let go. I'm paraphrasing. I'll see if I can find the article.
Let me say that Eli will finish his career here, imo. However, to those hardcore Eli supporters here, when a team can't score more than 20 points in how many games some of that is on the QB.
Let's not forget that Gilbride mentioned he sensed the offense being broken as far back as 2012.
Funny, that he would have considered that offense "broken" when it scored 35+ in 6 games and scored 40+ in 4 games.
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
He was right.
Go back to the second half of the 2012 season and you could see game in which the o-line was getting run over (Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Atlanta, Baltimore) and leading to terrible results.
The only games in which they performed well (Green Bay, New Orleans, Philadelphia) against in that final stretch all had horrific defenses and luckily their awfulness led to our success.
The organization gambled that the guys (Boothe, Snee, Baas, Diehl) given one more chance to get healthy would be able to hold up and lead the team to a playoff year.
Just like where this year is headed, they will lose that bet decisively and the season will be destroyed because of it.
We all like to think the Giants are somehow a cut above the other NFL franchises. I learned back when they cut Phil Simms that the Giants are a merciless cutthroat organization like any other in the NFL. Owners don't care about Eli or what he's done for the organization. Jerry Reese seems to me like a guy who would probably throw his own mother under the bus if he thought it would help his career.
There is no quarterback who can make McAdoo's dog shit offense turn into something other than McAdoo's dog shit offense. I see zero reason to believe that McAdoo's dog shit offense is somehow going to start to produce this weekend in Philly. All this lossing will lead to worse things, locker room spats, leaks to the media about Eli's demise and probably to Eli being run out of town. Been saying for a long time, enjoy Eli while he's here, there won't likely another like him for a very long time.
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
the question is would the Jaguars want a 37 year old QB...
More like, do the Jaguars want to win? A desperate franchise who hasn't won anything since the last time he was in town has given Tom full control of football operations. If Tom thinks Eli has enough left in the tank, I could see Eli in teal.
This past off-season, the Jags were selling shirts "All In with Coughlin". And I was thinking what other franchise in the past 30 years have celebrated a VP of Football Operations signing in the manner that Jax has. Tom is a god down here and will be given whatever latitude to build a winner.
OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
.
I think this is one of those questions that's really easy to speak but takes a bit more thought.
The Giants are their own answer to this question. When the defense was terrible in 2015 with a defensive coordinator who had won a championship and was a fan favorite, people complained that Spags couldn't coach because he failed in New Orleans with no talent.
The Giants go out and add talent and field a top 5 defense that finished 2016 with the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.
So what happened to questioning whether Spags could coach or not?
We're putting too much stock in coaches making teams when it's talent that makes teams. You can't physically win at the line of scrimmage, it doesn't matter what's inside your playbook. It can be really easy to say things like "run more max protect plays" or "throw more screens" but how much mileage are you really expecting to get with that for the next 14 games? They're not getting beat on blitzes. They're losing even-strength matchups because they're not good enough at multiple line positions.
I don't believe his play has deteriorated notably compared to what it was. And it looks like he's trying his best to deliver what's being asked of him.
But it's like buying a great pick up truck and then complaining it's a lousy sports car. Yeah, it's a pick up, that's why you bought it! Eli is a pocket passer without great mobility. And he's usually been able to throw a nice long ball. His understanding of the game has often allowed him to slice up defenses. That's what they drafted, and that's what they got.
If they want a highly mobile QB who can throw on the run, and even run the ball, they could sit Eli and stick Geno in now, but they'll have to take what comes with that. If they still want that style of play, they could draft Baker Mayfield next year whose game is all about movement, escapability, throwing on the run and making plays with his legs.
But Eli doesn't block, play RB or drop passes that land in his hands. No other QB is going to fix that either.
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
I agree with a lot of what you say about BM. However, you somewhat contradict yourself. If BM and his offense are that bad, then that mean you can't really tell how much if any Eli's skills have eroded.
OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
.
I think this is one of those questions that's really easy to speak but takes a bit more thought.
The Giants are their own answer to this question. When the defense was terrible in 2015 with a defensive coordinator who had won a championship and was a fan favorite, people complained that Spags couldn't coach because he failed in New Orleans with no talent.
The Giants go out and add talent and field a top 5 defense that finished 2016 with the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.
So what happened to questioning whether Spags could coach or not?
We're putting too much stock in coaches making teams when it's talent that makes teams. You can't physically win at the line of scrimmage, it doesn't matter what's inside your playbook. It can be really easy to say things like "run more max protect plays" or "throw more screens" but how much mileage are you really expecting to get with that for the next 14 games? They're not getting beat on blitzes. They're losing even-strength matchups because they're not good enough at multiple line positions.
Fair point. The OL is bad. We signed a block first TE in the offseason and paid him $5M. He plays in only 25% of your snaps. Good usage?
You have one of the quickest WRs in the league who plays something like 70% as the X. Why not play him more in the slot? Why not move him around? Put the guy in motion.
My point is, I don't buy that it's all the OL. I don't think McAdoo has gotten the most of the talent on offense. Not even close.
And are unhappy with him they are far more incompetent then I've ever imagined. They have the worst OL and run game in the NFL. I don't even think it's close. His All-Pro WR has been hurt. Their new signing at WR has played like complete shit. Their 2nd round pick from last year isn't doing anything. Rhett Ellison is a good blocker whose playing like 25% of the snaps. They kept a FB only to give him a handful of snaps a game. Their starting TE is a rookie.
Yet Eli still completed 69% of his passes this past week. He went 22 for 32 for 239 yards. Marshall dropped at least 2. Then had 1 on the sideline where he didn't even attempt to get his feet down. Shepard dropped one in the endzone and Engram dropped one in the red zone. That's 5 catchable balls that were on the receivers. Even if you put 2 of those on Eli and 3 on the WRs he's 25 for 32 (78%) with around 275 yards.
I think we hear Ben Must Go way before we hear anyone calling for Geno. In fact, if the O continues to play shitty in the next two games, I'd bet we hear those chants vs the Chargers if they don't score a TD on the 1st possession.
RE: where in Gods name could Boomer Esiason have Â
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
I disagree. I think if the optic is that Eli is being pushed out by a coach who has presided over perhaps the mos5 impotent offense since 1976 and a GM who has routinely failed to assemble anything that remotely passes for a legitimate NFL OL then yes I think there will be a PR problem. Especially when you push him out and his career is revived elsewhere ala Kurt Warner and the Cardinals
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
I disagree. I think if the optic is that Eli is being pushed out by a coach who has presided over perhaps the mos5 impotent offense since 1976 and a GM who has routinely failed to assemble anything that remotely passes for a legitimate NFL OL then yes I think there will be a PR problem. Especially when you push him out and his career is revived elsewhere ala Kurt Warner and the Cardinals
Guys like Michael Strahan are the outliers. Most often, good or great players play too long and are eventually pushed out. It doesn't matter who the public culprit is.
Boomer is right. The billion $$$ D has carried the team for a season and an eighth.
Eli has historical been high and outside/inside with his tosses, and his toss to OBJ likely lead to the injury, and his tosses on 3rd and 4th down Monday were at best headscratchers. Add the completions to the turf and thats a formula for criticism.
Mc is thinking: I call plays, and 20% of the time he holds the ball too long and takes a sack.
Reese is thinking: I get him more weapons and he's worse.
Mara's thinking: It's like I'm throwing $$$ into the fireplace.
Marshall said Fitzpatrick was a better QB than Eli, and is not adverse to walking to the front office, or media, and complaining.
BBIers has been unhappy too.
It's by no means all Eli, but in the NFL it's all on the QB.
So, again, I would not be surprised at internal unhappiness.
Boomer never a fan of the big salaries QB's get today Â
Boomer is right. The billion $$$ D has carried the team for a season and an eighth.
Eli has historical been high and outside/inside with his tosses, and his toss to OBJ likely lead to the injury, and his tosses on 3rd and 4th down Monday were at best headscratchers. Add the completions to the turf and thats a formula for criticism.
Mc is thinking: I call plays, and 20% of the time he holds the ball too long and takes a sack.
Reese is thinking: I get him more weapons and he's worse.
Mara's thinking: It's like I'm throwing $$$ into the fireplace.
Marshall said Fitzpatrick was a better QB than Eli, and is not adverse to walking to the front office, or media, and complaining.
BBIers has been unhappy too.
It's by no means all Eli, but in the NFL it's all on the QB.
So, again, I would not be surprised at internal unhappiness.
Are you fucking serious...holy shit this has got to stop...
I've been an Eli fan from day 1, but it is clear that he is in decline. He certainly has to take some blame here.
Yes, the OL is horrific.
Yes, it's difficult to gauge how much Eli has left in the tank due to the OL.
Yes, Reese needs to be taken to task for the state of the OL.
Yes, Mac needs to bear responsibility for the ineptitude of the offense.
That said, I feel that a lot of you are failing to grasp that Eli is 37 fucking years old and on the decline. If you think they are going to fire everybody and rebuild around Eli you are going to be disappointed.
Reese and Mac could both get shown the door, but either way Eli's days are numbered
I've been an Eli fan from day 1, but it is clear that he is in decline. He certainly has to take some blame here.
Yes, the OL is horrific.
Yes, it's difficult to gauge how much Eli has left in the tank due to the OL.
Yes, Reese needs to be taken to task for the state of the OL.
Yes, Mac needs to bear responsibility for the ineptitude of the offense.
That said, I feel that a lot of you are failing to grasp that Eli is 37 fucking years old and on the decline. If you think they are going to fire everybody and rebuild around Eli you are going to be disappointed.
Reese and Mac could both get shown the door, but either way Eli's days are numbered
It's not even about building around Eli. It's about building a team the right way. The Giants went from bad to consistently in the hunt by having a strong OL and a DL that can rush the QB. That formula led to 2 SBs and playoff berths in 5 out of 7 years. Reese deviated from this formula (at least on the offensive side) and the OL is simply egregious at this point.
The Seattle Seahawks are a good example of this. When they were consistently a legit SB threat they had a monster defense, OL, and running game. Over the past few years their OL eroded to arguably as bad as ours, and now they're a fringe playoff team. They still have a good d and have weapons on offense (like us), but a terrible OL makes it difficult to function offensively. They even have the mobile QB some are clamoring for here and it doesn't matter.
Eli to JAX makes a ton of sense IMO. They're a QB away from controlling that division and Eli still has the ability to go on a run in the playoffs.
a fit with this line. C'mon now. There isn't a type of QB that thrives behind a shitty line.
And Eli even has extended several plays in the first two games. He went down on one play untouched and now all of a sudden he's a crumpled mess?
This is fucking ponderous.
Agree with the latter half of your post. But, Eli did thrive behind an OL just as shitty for 2 years with McAdoo as OC. He's the same QB, the OL is just as shitty. The gameplan and playcalling is what changed.
This is probably Eli's last year because of many things already stated. He does not fit the scheme and it will be easier to rebuild the offense with a mobile QB.
And Eli even has extended several plays in the first two games. He went down on one play untouched and now all of a sudden he's a crumpled mess?
This is fucking ponderous.
I hear you, but consider that Reese is not that incompetent. Nor was he incompetent when he gave TC a horrible defense, saw him depart and then promptly spent big $$$ . He suddenly became competent again after TC was released?
Many posters on this board have been hammering away about this oline for many seasons. Again is Reese and ownership REALLY that incompetent or is something else by played out?
Another thing to consider, what are/were the optics around the memorabilia?
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
You mean the Cowboys who last year had assembled the best OL in football and brought in a stud RB who handily led the NFL in rushing? If they looked at the Cowboys and came away with Daks mobility and smarts being the biggest factor in their success then go ahead and fire them now.
You give Eli that OL and that RB and we contest the Patriots superbowl dynasty.
Then you're not going to be having interest fairly soon because there's no way it won't.
That was honestly always the case, but at least before there was a decent chance it was mostly kept behind the scenes. McAdoo (and to a much lesser extent Reese) clearly isn't here for that though and it's going to be public and not pretty.
The difference is Mac. He needs to give up play calling.
Eli or McAdoo? Give me Eli all day every day.
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that may be influencing some of this:
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
You mean the Cowboys who last year had assembled the best OL in football and brought in a stud RB who handily led the NFL in rushing? If they looked at the Cowboys and came away with Daks mobility and smarts being the biggest factor in their success then go ahead and fire them now.
You give Eli that OL and that RB and we contest the Patriots superbowl dynasty.
Thank you for responding the same way I was going to.
The difference is Mac. He needs to give up play calling.
I'd be inclined to agree with your point about Mac.
It's worth pointing out that the line is playing significantly worse however. The past 2 games have been historically bad.
Maybe Eli could create a fake business like TB12, and call it, say, EM10... then have the Giants organization sign a lucrative contract with said company...then we can also cheat around the salary cap to be able to sign a big free agent.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
I smell this starting too, which is unfortunate
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
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In comment 13609806 micky said:
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QB and OT
No. No. No. No.
The draft is not about positions.
Exactly, you don't reach based on position.
desperate teams reach for positions....
[quote] In comment 13609852 WillVAB said:
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In comment 13609835 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 13609827 WillVAB said:
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I say screw the Giants and ask for a trade to JAX.
If I'm Eli, I refuse a trade. He negotiated a contract with a no-trade clause. I play out the season and force the Giants to release him prior to the roster bonus coming due. This way, Eli can choose where he goes as a FA. If that so happens to be Jax, then so be it. But whatever team he signs with will negotiate based on current market value of QBs.
Good point. JAX would be a good landing spot though. Good young defense. Good running game. Solid OL. Coughlin connection. With Eli I think they'd be one receiver away from being a legit contender.
I think Jax would be ideal. And they have a ton of cap space to fit a QB contract. [/quot
the question is would the Jaguars want a 37 year old QB...
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Let's not forget that Gilbride mentioned he sensed the offense being broken as far back as 2012.
Funny, that he would have considered that offense "broken" when it scored 35+ in 6 games and scored 40+ in 4 games.
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
I could be getting the year wrong. But I clearly recall an interview or or comments Gilbride made somewhere that mentioned he could see "signs" of the offense breaking or becoming broken. It came out maybe 6 months after he was let go. I'm paraphrasing. I'll see if I can find the article.
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Let's not forget that Gilbride mentioned he sensed the offense being broken as far back as 2012.
Funny, that he would have considered that offense "broken" when it scored 35+ in 6 games and scored 40+ in 4 games.
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
He was right.
Go back to the second half of the 2012 season and you could see game in which the o-line was getting run over (Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Atlanta, Baltimore) and leading to terrible results.
The only games in which they performed well (Green Bay, New Orleans, Philadelphia) against in that final stretch all had horrific defenses and luckily their awfulness led to our success.
The organization gambled that the guys (Boothe, Snee, Baas, Diehl) given one more chance to get healthy would be able to hold up and lead the team to a playoff year.
Just like where this year is headed, they will lose that bet decisively and the season will be destroyed because of it.
There is no quarterback who can make McAdoo's dog shit offense turn into something other than McAdoo's dog shit offense. I see zero reason to believe that McAdoo's dog shit offense is somehow going to start to produce this weekend in Philly. All this lossing will lead to worse things, locker room spats, leaks to the media about Eli's demise and probably to Eli being run out of town. Been saying for a long time, enjoy Eli while he's here, there won't likely another like him for a very long time.
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I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
the question is would the Jaguars want a 37 year old QB...
More like, do the Jaguars want to win? A desperate franchise who hasn't won anything since the last time he was in town has given Tom full control of football operations. If Tom thinks Eli has enough left in the tank, I could see Eli in teal.
This past off-season, the Jags were selling shirts "All In with Coughlin". And I was thinking what other franchise in the past 30 years have celebrated a VP of Football Operations signing in the manner that Jax has. Tom is a god down here and will be given whatever latitude to build a winner.
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In comment 13609963 Modus Operandi said:
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OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
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I think this is one of those questions that's really easy to speak but takes a bit more thought.
The Giants are their own answer to this question. When the defense was terrible in 2015 with a defensive coordinator who had won a championship and was a fan favorite, people complained that Spags couldn't coach because he failed in New Orleans with no talent.
The Giants go out and add talent and field a top 5 defense that finished 2016 with the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.
So what happened to questioning whether Spags could coach or not?
We're putting too much stock in coaches making teams when it's talent that makes teams. You can't physically win at the line of scrimmage, it doesn't matter what's inside your playbook. It can be really easy to say things like "run more max protect plays" or "throw more screens" but how much mileage are you really expecting to get with that for the next 14 games? They're not getting beat on blitzes. They're losing even-strength matchups because they're not good enough at multiple line positions.
But it's like buying a great pick up truck and then complaining it's a lousy sports car. Yeah, it's a pick up, that's why you bought it! Eli is a pocket passer without great mobility. And he's usually been able to throw a nice long ball. His understanding of the game has often allowed him to slice up defenses. That's what they drafted, and that's what they got.
If they want a highly mobile QB who can throw on the run, and even run the ball, they could sit Eli and stick Geno in now, but they'll have to take what comes with that. If they still want that style of play, they could draft Baker Mayfield next year whose game is all about movement, escapability, throwing on the run and making plays with his legs.
But Eli doesn't block, play RB or drop passes that land in his hands. No other QB is going to fix that either.
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In comment 13609963 Modus Operandi said:
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I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
I agree with a lot of what you say about BM. However, you somewhat contradict yourself. If BM and his offense are that bad, then that mean you can't really tell how much if any Eli's skills have eroded.
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In comment 13609981 JOrthman said:
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In comment 13609963 Modus Operandi said:
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OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
.
I think this is one of those questions that's really easy to speak but takes a bit more thought.
The Giants are their own answer to this question. When the defense was terrible in 2015 with a defensive coordinator who had won a championship and was a fan favorite, people complained that Spags couldn't coach because he failed in New Orleans with no talent.
The Giants go out and add talent and field a top 5 defense that finished 2016 with the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.
So what happened to questioning whether Spags could coach or not?
We're putting too much stock in coaches making teams when it's talent that makes teams. You can't physically win at the line of scrimmage, it doesn't matter what's inside your playbook. It can be really easy to say things like "run more max protect plays" or "throw more screens" but how much mileage are you really expecting to get with that for the next 14 games? They're not getting beat on blitzes. They're losing even-strength matchups because they're not good enough at multiple line positions.
Fair point. The OL is bad. We signed a block first TE in the offseason and paid him $5M. He plays in only 25% of your snaps. Good usage?
You have one of the quickest WRs in the league who plays something like 70% as the X. Why not play him more in the slot? Why not move him around? Put the guy in motion.
My point is, I don't buy that it's all the OL. I don't think McAdoo has gotten the most of the talent on offense. Not even close.
Yet Eli still completed 69% of his passes this past week. He went 22 for 32 for 239 yards. Marshall dropped at least 2. Then had 1 on the sideline where he didn't even attempt to get his feet down. Shepard dropped one in the endzone and Engram dropped one in the red zone. That's 5 catchable balls that were on the receivers. Even if you put 2 of those on Eli and 3 on the WRs he's 25 for 32 (78%) with around 275 yards.
I think we hear Ben Must Go way before we hear anyone calling for Geno. In fact, if the O continues to play shitty in the next two games, I'd bet we hear those chants vs the Chargers if they don't score a TD on the 1st possession.
Umm maybe Phil Simms? Like him or not, I think Boomer has plenty of NY and around the league connections and can easily get info, even on the Giants.
He might not be on the need to know list but that doesn't mean he's on the doesn't know list.
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In comment 13609963 Modus Operandi said:
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I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
I disagree. I think if the optic is that Eli is being pushed out by a coach who has presided over perhaps the mos5 impotent offense since 1976 and a GM who has routinely failed to assemble anything that remotely passes for a legitimate NFL OL then yes I think there will be a PR problem. Especially when you push him out and his career is revived elsewhere ala Kurt Warner and the Cardinals
I ve always been a believer in Eli, still am. But the idea that the Giants brass is clueless on this matter is absurd.
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In comment 13609981 JOrthman said:
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In comment 13609963 Modus Operandi said:
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I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
I disagree. I think if the optic is that Eli is being pushed out by a coach who has presided over perhaps the mos5 impotent offense since 1976 and a GM who has routinely failed to assemble anything that remotely passes for a legitimate NFL OL then yes I think there will be a PR problem. Especially when you push him out and his career is revived elsewhere ala Kurt Warner and the Cardinals
Guys like Michael Strahan are the outliers. Most often, good or great players play too long and are eventually pushed out. It doesn't matter who the public culprit is.
Eli has historical been high and outside/inside with his tosses, and his toss to OBJ likely lead to the injury, and his tosses on 3rd and 4th down Monday were at best headscratchers. Add the completions to the turf and thats a formula for criticism.
Mc is thinking: I call plays, and 20% of the time he holds the ball too long and takes a sack.
Reese is thinking: I get him more weapons and he's worse.
Mara's thinking: It's like I'm throwing $$$ into the fireplace.
Marshall said Fitzpatrick was a better QB than Eli, and is not adverse to walking to the front office, or media, and complaining.
BBIers has been unhappy too.
It's by no means all Eli, but in the NFL it's all on the QB.
So, again, I would not be surprised at internal unhappiness.
Marshall said Fitzpatrick was a better QB than Eli, and is not adverse to walking to the front office, or media, and complaining.
In fairness, Marshall was obviously laying the sarcasm/deadpan humor on pretty thick when he made that comment.
Eli has historical been high and outside/inside with his tosses, and his toss to OBJ likely lead to the injury, and his tosses on 3rd and 4th down Monday were at best headscratchers. Add the completions to the turf and thats a formula for criticism.
Mc is thinking: I call plays, and 20% of the time he holds the ball too long and takes a sack.
Reese is thinking: I get him more weapons and he's worse.
Mara's thinking: It's like I'm throwing $$$ into the fireplace.
Marshall said Fitzpatrick was a better QB than Eli, and is not adverse to walking to the front office, or media, and complaining.
BBIers has been unhappy too.
It's by no means all Eli, but in the NFL it's all on the QB.
So, again, I would not be surprised at internal unhappiness.
Are you fucking serious...holy shit this has got to stop...
Yes, the OL is horrific.
Yes, it's difficult to gauge how much Eli has left in the tank due to the OL.
Yes, Reese needs to be taken to task for the state of the OL.
Yes, Mac needs to bear responsibility for the ineptitude of the offense.
That said, I feel that a lot of you are failing to grasp that Eli is 37 fucking years old and on the decline. If you think they are going to fire everybody and rebuild around Eli you are going to be disappointed.
Reese and Mac could both get shown the door, but either way Eli's days are numbered
Yes, the OL is horrific.
Yes, it's difficult to gauge how much Eli has left in the tank due to the OL.
Yes, Reese needs to be taken to task for the state of the OL.
Yes, Mac needs to bear responsibility for the ineptitude of the offense.
That said, I feel that a lot of you are failing to grasp that Eli is 37 fucking years old and on the decline. If you think they are going to fire everybody and rebuild around Eli you are going to be disappointed.
Reese and Mac could both get shown the door, but either way Eli's days are numbered
It's not even about building around Eli. It's about building a team the right way. The Giants went from bad to consistently in the hunt by having a strong OL and a DL that can rush the QB. That formula led to 2 SBs and playoff berths in 5 out of 7 years. Reese deviated from this formula (at least on the offensive side) and the OL is simply egregious at this point.
The Seattle Seahawks are a good example of this. When they were consistently a legit SB threat they had a monster defense, OL, and running game. Over the past few years their OL eroded to arguably as bad as ours, and now they're a fringe playoff team. They still have a good d and have weapons on offense (like us), but a terrible OL makes it difficult to function offensively. They even have the mobile QB some are clamoring for here and it doesn't matter.
Eli to JAX makes a ton of sense IMO. They're a QB away from controlling that division and Eli still has the ability to go on a run in the playoffs.
And Eli even has extended several plays in the first two games. He went down on one play untouched and now all of a sudden he's a crumpled mess?
This is fucking ponderous.