He said that while they would never indicate their concern in regard to Eli publicly, behind the scenes they believe he is not helping them to overcome some of their deficiencies.
people just willfully ignoring that pocket passers are all over the NFL?
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pocket passers are become ancient in today's game and offensive schemes and are a liability ...unless you have basically a HOF offensive linemen at least 3/5ths. no escaping it.
What do you think Ryan and Brady are perfect examples of?
I think even Eli went out there with no offensive line (not much of a difference), then wed still be hearing it about the “play of the QB”. Ok, he’s not a perfect QB like Aaron Rodgers, but who the fuck is?
Eli didn’t have the worst game in the world vs the Lions. Guys can’t block, can’t catch. Brandon Marshall has been fucking useless. What the hell is he supposed to do? He got sacked 5 time (0 blitzes) so everyone is free to roam back there.
He even made those plays to Shep and Engram, still with a D-line man in his face. The interception was costly of course but eh, for the 392939th time. This offensive, offensive line sucks dirty asshole.
Eli is no doubt a part of the problem right now - but how much is debatable.
I think the state of the OL and his complete lack of mobility are just creating a perfect storm of shit.
I don't know how many QB's can succeed with zero semblance of a rushing attack and pass protection this poor. Not to mention key drops by guys like Marshall.
Eli has to be better - but he's in a hell of a situation right now. Nothing around him is helping him.
Manning moves well in the pocket. The "complete lack of mobility" is not really accurate unless you mean he's not a runner.
I have never been a fan of Boomer's or his shows Â
and it always seems that when I hear him on radio or tv he is taking a shot at the Giants. I also don't see how you can blame this on Eli since the o-line can't block a basic NFL stunt or a 4 man rush. Just look at Seattle and Russell Wilson who is running for his life on every play. He is one hit from IR because he has the same o-line issues we do.
I don't see how a running QB solves our offensive woes.
I say screw the Giants and ask for a trade to JAX.
If I'm Eli, I refuse a trade. He negotiated a contract with a no-trade clause. I play out the season and force the Giants to release him prior to the roster bonus coming due. This way, Eli can choose where he goes as a FA. If that so happens to be Jax, then so be it. But whatever team he signs with will negotiate based on current market value of QBs.
Good point. JAX would be a good landing spot though. Good young defense. Good running game. Solid OL. Coughlin connection. With Eli I think they'd be one receiver away from being a legit contender.
I think Jax would be ideal. And they have a ton of cap space to fit a QB contract.
There has been a lot of references to BB in this thread.
I hope you all get the irony of that....
The Patriots had their franchise QB in Bledsoe, he got injured and the 6th(?) Round QB named Brady who was 4th (I believe) on the depth chart the year before came in and has been the starter since then..
So if Eli got hurt and was out and Webb lit it up would you still want to do it the Patriot's way?
definitely moves in the pocket. He just doesn't run.
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semi pocket..with "some" mobility.
It's complete bullshit to make it sound like eli is a statue back there and guys like Brady or Ryan are limber sprinters.
Manning buys time in the pocket with the best of them except for Rodgers. He just doesn't run unless absolutely necessary, which places him in the company of about 10 other guys - all of whom are above average.
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
2) Eli was Coughlin's guy. More than Reese and obviously more than McAdoo!
3) I agree with the fact that McAdoo sees Rodgers play and designs an offense here where the same thing would be used but can't be because Eli cannot move around that way.
4) Other teams have had success with less than STELLAR lines. Plus, with the inability of Eli to move around it magnifies the absolute swing and miss the team had with Flowers.
I am not saying I agree with these statements (meaning I don't think it is right to use those as the team is structured one way -talent wise, but run another- scheme and play calling wise.
I was saying this yesterday and the day before, I truly believe McAdoo is not happy with having Eli and his current skill set as his QB. We shall see if this goes anywhere but I am 100% in the camp that says this is probably Eli's last year with the Giants. No Trade Clauses mean nothing if the player waves them. I would not be surprised to see Eli in Jacksonville to finish his career.
What, exactly did the Cowboys "win" other than the NFC East?
There has been a lot of references to BB in this thread.
I hope you all get the irony of that....
The Patriots had their franchise QB in Bledsoe, he got injured and the 6th(?) Round QB named Brady who was 4th (I believe) on the depth chart the year before came in and has been the starter since then..
So if Eli got hurt and was out and Webb lit it up would you still want to do it the Patriot's way?
Just thought for discussion
And did Bill make adjustments to his offense with that rookie and continue to do so every year since as personnel changed or have they've been running the same Belichick/Bledsoe system for the last 15+ years?
They've been leaking things like this almost since McAdoo took over. Â
Paired with the public comments (vs how he'll protect other players), it's obvious where it's all been coming from now.
Considering how Eli allegedly pushed for him and continuing to build off what they had been doing was a huge reason for him to get the job, Ben really is looking like a weasel right now -- and, worse, a dumb one, as containing to stir this pot publicly right now helps no aspect of this team.
definitely moves in the pocket. He just doesn't run.
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semi pocket..with "some" mobility.
It's complete bullshit to make it sound like eli is a statue back there and guys like Brady or Ryan are limber sprinters.
Manning buys time in the pocket with the best of them except for Rodgers. He just doesn't run unless absolutely necessary, which places him in the company of about 10 other guys - all of whom are above average.
a few years ago..yeah..manninn has had some mobility..and of course 6 yrs ago..ie..tyree play. but now? basically he's falling down untouched because can't move around as good. he's not a fit here with this line as is.
so the decisioning can be the same for Eli (late career) and looking like Peyton. Said before but maybe for what they pay him, they expect certain things (not unreasonable). Not sure about his contract, but beginning to wonder if they are indirectly telling him to retire or find another home so the Giants can draft a new franchise guy and spend new money on oline. Eras come to an end.
draft or otherwise hire him, Boomer has over the years taken every opportunity to bash Giants and especially Eli. So Boomer thanks for your work in CF, as for Giant commentary, go F yourself
He is losing a second because he has slowed down in his dropback and nobody respects the play action because they have a bad running game ....yes...but also because Eli doesn’t play fake well either .....even Geno Smith drops back faster .......the two fastest guys I’ve ever seen drop back are Montana and Aikman !!!!
a fit with this line. C'mon now. There isn't a type of QB that thrives behind a shitty line.
And Eli even has extended several plays in the first two games. He went down on one play untouched and now all of a sudden he's a crumpled mess?
This is fucking ponderous.
I hear you, but consider that Reese is not that incompetent. Nor was he incompetent when he gave TC a horrible defense, saw him depart and then promptly spent big $$$ . He suddenly became competent again after TC was released?
Many posters on this board have been hammering away about this oline for many seasons. Again is Reese and ownership REALLY that incompetent or is something else by played out?
Another thing to consider, what are/were the optics around the memorabilia?
Not sure that I will have interest in football anymore Â
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
You mean the Cowboys who last year had assembled the best OL in football and brought in a stud RB who handily led the NFL in rushing? If they looked at the Cowboys and came away with Daks mobility and smarts being the biggest factor in their success then go ahead and fire them now.
You give Eli that OL and that RB and we contest the Patriots superbowl dynasty.
RE: Not sure that I will have interest in football anymore Â
Then you're not going to be having interest fairly soon because there's no way it won't.
That was honestly always the case, but at least before there was a decent chance it was mostly kept behind the scenes. McAdoo (and to a much lesser extent Reese) clearly isn't here for that though and it's going to be public and not pretty.
How else the misfits survive this, Reese, McAdoo, and the entire coaching staff and the scouts, the only way is to blame this on Eli, if it's Eli, then put in the backup, but I guarantee you that won't happen, because that might expose them all. This entire thing is broke, the only reason this organization was able to get back to respectability is TOM COUGHLIN. Now that he is gone you have a misfit GM, nd misfit Head Coach. There was a reason why he blamed Eli for the timeout, name me any good coach that throws his QB under the bus. Fuck them all, blame it on Eli, keep everything in tact, and this organization will fall back into the same crap we saw in the mid 60's thru 70's. This blame starts with John Mara, if he is that blind to these two misfits, then he deserves what will follow and fans are getting disgusted with the NFL now anyway.
I'm really starting to believe this Organization is broken. I get Eli has struggled but come on!! Behind that Oline any QB including Brady would be a complete mess!! Really disturbing if true. As I said this is the reason the Giants are a huge mess, it starts at the top.
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
You mean the Cowboys who last year had assembled the best OL in football and brought in a stud RB who handily led the NFL in rushing? If they looked at the Cowboys and came away with Daks mobility and smarts being the biggest factor in their success then go ahead and fire them now.
You give Eli that OL and that RB and we contest the Patriots superbowl dynasty.
Thank you for responding the same way I was going to.
If Eli took Tom Brady momey the giants would be able to get a good tackle, i hope they ask him to take a pay cut. They cant cut him, but its a look we need the cash to keep you out of the hospital. He makes alot of money in endorsements too.
Maybe Eli could create a fake business like TB12, and call it, say, EM10... then have the Giants organization sign a lucrative contract with said company...then we can also cheat around the salary cap to be able to sign a big free agent.
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
In comment 13609868 Diver_Down said:
[quote] In comment 13609852 WillVAB said:
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In comment 13609835 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 13609827 WillVAB said:
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I say screw the Giants and ask for a trade to JAX.
If I'm Eli, I refuse a trade. He negotiated a contract with a no-trade clause. I play out the season and force the Giants to release him prior to the roster bonus coming due. This way, Eli can choose where he goes as a FA. If that so happens to be Jax, then so be it. But whatever team he signs with will negotiate based on current market value of QBs.
Good point. JAX would be a good landing spot though. Good young defense. Good running game. Solid OL. Coughlin connection. With Eli I think they'd be one receiver away from being a legit contender.
I think Jax would be ideal. And they have a ton of cap space to fit a QB contract. [/quot
the question is would the Jaguars want a 37 year old QB...
Let's not forget that Gilbride mentioned he sensed the offense being broken as far back as 2012.
Funny, that he would have considered that offense "broken" when it scored 35+ in 6 games and scored 40+ in 4 games.
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
I could be getting the year wrong. But I clearly recall an interview or or comments Gilbride made somewhere that mentioned he could see "signs" of the offense breaking or becoming broken. It came out maybe 6 months after he was let go. I'm paraphrasing. I'll see if I can find the article.
Let me say that Eli will finish his career here, imo. However, to those hardcore Eli supporters here, when a team can't score more than 20 points in how many games some of that is on the QB.
Let's not forget that Gilbride mentioned he sensed the offense being broken as far back as 2012.
Funny, that he would have considered that offense "broken" when it scored 35+ in 6 games and scored 40+ in 4 games.
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
He was right.
Go back to the second half of the 2012 season and you could see game in which the o-line was getting run over (Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Atlanta, Baltimore) and leading to terrible results.
The only games in which they performed well (Green Bay, New Orleans, Philadelphia) against in that final stretch all had horrific defenses and luckily their awfulness led to our success.
The organization gambled that the guys (Boothe, Snee, Baas, Diehl) given one more chance to get healthy would be able to hold up and lead the team to a playoff year.
Just like where this year is headed, they will lose that bet decisively and the season will be destroyed because of it.
We all like to think the Giants are somehow a cut above the other NFL franchises. I learned back when they cut Phil Simms that the Giants are a merciless cutthroat organization like any other in the NFL. Owners don't care about Eli or what he's done for the organization. Jerry Reese seems to me like a guy who would probably throw his own mother under the bus if he thought it would help his career.
There is no quarterback who can make McAdoo's dog shit offense turn into something other than McAdoo's dog shit offense. I see zero reason to believe that McAdoo's dog shit offense is somehow going to start to produce this weekend in Philly. All this lossing will lead to worse things, locker room spats, leaks to the media about Eli's demise and probably to Eli being run out of town. Been saying for a long time, enjoy Eli while he's here, there won't likely another like him for a very long time.
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
the question is would the Jaguars want a 37 year old QB...
More like, do the Jaguars want to win? A desperate franchise who hasn't won anything since the last time he was in town has given Tom full control of football operations. If Tom thinks Eli has enough left in the tank, I could see Eli in teal.
This past off-season, the Jags were selling shirts "All In with Coughlin". And I was thinking what other franchise in the past 30 years have celebrated a VP of Football Operations signing in the manner that Jax has. Tom is a god down here and will be given whatever latitude to build a winner.
OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
.
I think this is one of those questions that's really easy to speak but takes a bit more thought.
The Giants are their own answer to this question. When the defense was terrible in 2015 with a defensive coordinator who had won a championship and was a fan favorite, people complained that Spags couldn't coach because he failed in New Orleans with no talent.
The Giants go out and add talent and field a top 5 defense that finished 2016 with the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.
So what happened to questioning whether Spags could coach or not?
We're putting too much stock in coaches making teams when it's talent that makes teams. You can't physically win at the line of scrimmage, it doesn't matter what's inside your playbook. It can be really easy to say things like "run more max protect plays" or "throw more screens" but how much mileage are you really expecting to get with that for the next 14 games? They're not getting beat on blitzes. They're losing even-strength matchups because they're not good enough at multiple line positions.
I don't believe his play has deteriorated notably compared to what it was. And it looks like he's trying his best to deliver what's being asked of him.
But it's like buying a great pick up truck and then complaining it's a lousy sports car. Yeah, it's a pick up, that's why you bought it! Eli is a pocket passer without great mobility. And he's usually been able to throw a nice long ball. His understanding of the game has often allowed him to slice up defenses. That's what they drafted, and that's what they got.
If they want a highly mobile QB who can throw on the run, and even run the ball, they could sit Eli and stick Geno in now, but they'll have to take what comes with that. If they still want that style of play, they could draft Baker Mayfield next year whose game is all about movement, escapability, throwing on the run and making plays with his legs.
But Eli doesn't block, play RB or drop passes that land in his hands. No other QB is going to fix that either.
I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
I agree with a lot of what you say about BM. However, you somewhat contradict yourself. If BM and his offense are that bad, then that mean you can't really tell how much if any Eli's skills have eroded.
OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
.
I think this is one of those questions that's really easy to speak but takes a bit more thought.
The Giants are their own answer to this question. When the defense was terrible in 2015 with a defensive coordinator who had won a championship and was a fan favorite, people complained that Spags couldn't coach because he failed in New Orleans with no talent.
The Giants go out and add talent and field a top 5 defense that finished 2016 with the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.
So what happened to questioning whether Spags could coach or not?
We're putting too much stock in coaches making teams when it's talent that makes teams. You can't physically win at the line of scrimmage, it doesn't matter what's inside your playbook. It can be really easy to say things like "run more max protect plays" or "throw more screens" but how much mileage are you really expecting to get with that for the next 14 games? They're not getting beat on blitzes. They're losing even-strength matchups because they're not good enough at multiple line positions.
Fair point. The OL is bad. We signed a block first TE in the offseason and paid him $5M. He plays in only 25% of your snaps. Good usage?
You have one of the quickest WRs in the league who plays something like 70% as the X. Why not play him more in the slot? Why not move him around? Put the guy in motion.
My point is, I don't buy that it's all the OL. I don't think McAdoo has gotten the most of the talent on offense. Not even close.
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pocket passers are become ancient in today's game and offensive schemes and are a liability ...unless you have basically a HOF offensive linemen at least 3/5ths. no escaping it.
What do you think Ryan and Brady are perfect examples of?
semi pocket..with "some" mobility.
Eli didn’t have the worst game in the world vs the Lions. Guys can’t block, can’t catch. Brandon Marshall has been fucking useless. What the hell is he supposed to do? He got sacked 5 time (0 blitzes) so everyone is free to roam back there.
He even made those plays to Shep and Engram, still with a D-line man in his face. The interception was costly of course but eh, for the 392939th time. This offensive, offensive line sucks dirty asshole.
I think the state of the OL and his complete lack of mobility are just creating a perfect storm of shit.
I don't know how many QB's can succeed with zero semblance of a rushing attack and pass protection this poor. Not to mention key drops by guys like Marshall.
Eli has to be better - but he's in a hell of a situation right now. Nothing around him is helping him.
Manning moves well in the pocket. The "complete lack of mobility" is not really accurate unless you mean he's not a runner.
I don't see how a running QB solves our offensive woes.
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In comment 13609827 WillVAB said:
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I say screw the Giants and ask for a trade to JAX.
If I'm Eli, I refuse a trade. He negotiated a contract with a no-trade clause. I play out the season and force the Giants to release him prior to the roster bonus coming due. This way, Eli can choose where he goes as a FA. If that so happens to be Jax, then so be it. But whatever team he signs with will negotiate based on current market value of QBs.
Good point. JAX would be a good landing spot though. Good young defense. Good running game. Solid OL. Coughlin connection. With Eli I think they'd be one receiver away from being a legit contender.
I think Jax would be ideal. And they have a ton of cap space to fit a QB contract.
There has been a lot of references to BB in this thread.
I hope you all get the irony of that....
The Patriots had their franchise QB in Bledsoe, he got injured and the 6th(?) Round QB named Brady who was 4th (I believe) on the depth chart the year before came in and has been the starter since then..
So if Eli got hurt and was out and Webb lit it up would you still want to do it the Patriot's way?
Just thought for discussion
It's complete bullshit to make it sound like eli is a statue back there and guys like Brady or Ryan are limber sprinters.
Manning buys time in the pocket with the best of them except for Rodgers. He just doesn't run unless absolutely necessary, which places him in the company of about 10 other guys - all of whom are above average.
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
2) Eli was Coughlin's guy. More than Reese and obviously more than McAdoo!
3) I agree with the fact that McAdoo sees Rodgers play and designs an offense here where the same thing would be used but can't be because Eli cannot move around that way.
4) Other teams have had success with less than STELLAR lines. Plus, with the inability of Eli to move around it magnifies the absolute swing and miss the team had with Flowers.
I am not saying I agree with these statements (meaning I don't think it is right to use those as the team is structured one way -talent wise, but run another- scheme and play calling wise.
I was saying this yesterday and the day before, I truly believe McAdoo is not happy with having Eli and his current skill set as his QB. We shall see if this goes anywhere but I am 100% in the camp that says this is probably Eli's last year with the Giants. No Trade Clauses mean nothing if the player waves them. I would not be surprised to see Eli in Jacksonville to finish his career.
What, exactly did the Cowboys "win" other than the NFC East?
With a better line, Eli likely plays better.
With a more mobile QB, the less than competent OLine is adequate.
There has been a lot of references to BB in this thread.
I hope you all get the irony of that....
The Patriots had their franchise QB in Bledsoe, he got injured and the 6th(?) Round QB named Brady who was 4th (I believe) on the depth chart the year before came in and has been the starter since then..
So if Eli got hurt and was out and Webb lit it up would you still want to do it the Patriot's way?
Just thought for discussion
And did Bill make adjustments to his offense with that rookie and continue to do so every year since as personnel changed or have they've been running the same Belichick/Bledsoe system for the last 15+ years?
Considering how Eli allegedly pushed for him and continuing to build off what they had been doing was a huge reason for him to get the job, Ben really is looking like a weasel right now -- and, worse, a dumb one, as containing to stir this pot publicly right now helps no aspect of this team.
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semi pocket..with "some" mobility.
It's complete bullshit to make it sound like eli is a statue back there and guys like Brady or Ryan are limber sprinters.
Manning buys time in the pocket with the best of them except for Rodgers. He just doesn't run unless absolutely necessary, which places him in the company of about 10 other guys - all of whom are above average.
a few years ago..yeah..manninn has had some mobility..and of course 6 yrs ago..ie..tyree play. but now? basically he's falling down untouched because can't move around as good. he's not a fit here with this line as is.
And Eli even has extended several plays in the first two games. He went down on one play untouched and now all of a sudden he's a crumpled mess?
This is fucking ponderous.
And Eli even has extended several plays in the first two games. He went down on one play untouched and now all of a sudden he's a crumpled mess?
This is fucking ponderous.
I hear you, but consider that Reese is not that incompetent. Nor was he incompetent when he gave TC a horrible defense, saw him depart and then promptly spent big $$$ . He suddenly became competent again after TC was released?
Many posters on this board have been hammering away about this oline for many seasons. Again is Reese and ownership REALLY that incompetent or is something else by played out?
Another thing to consider, what are/were the optics around the memorabilia?
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
You mean the Cowboys who last year had assembled the best OL in football and brought in a stud RB who handily led the NFL in rushing? If they looked at the Cowboys and came away with Daks mobility and smarts being the biggest factor in their success then go ahead and fire them now.
You give Eli that OL and that RB and we contest the Patriots superbowl dynasty.
Then you're not going to be having interest fairly soon because there's no way it won't.
That was honestly always the case, but at least before there was a decent chance it was mostly kept behind the scenes. McAdoo (and to a much lesser extent Reese) clearly isn't here for that though and it's going to be public and not pretty.
The difference is Mac. He needs to give up play calling.
Eli or McAdoo? Give me Eli all day every day.
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that may be influencing some of this:
1) The Giants saw the Cowboys lose Romo last year and put in a Rookie Qb and have success. he has mobility and smarts and they were able to win with him at the helm. On top of it, he kept turnovers to a min, something Eli is not great at.
You mean the Cowboys who last year had assembled the best OL in football and brought in a stud RB who handily led the NFL in rushing? If they looked at the Cowboys and came away with Daks mobility and smarts being the biggest factor in their success then go ahead and fire them now.
You give Eli that OL and that RB and we contest the Patriots superbowl dynasty.
Thank you for responding the same way I was going to.
The difference is Mac. He needs to give up play calling.
I'd be inclined to agree with your point about Mac.
It's worth pointing out that the line is playing significantly worse however. The past 2 games have been historically bad.
Maybe Eli could create a fake business like TB12, and call it, say, EM10... then have the Giants organization sign a lucrative contract with said company...then we can also cheat around the salary cap to be able to sign a big free agent.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
I smell this starting too, which is unfortunate
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
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In comment 13609806 micky said:
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QB and OT
No. No. No. No.
The draft is not about positions.
Exactly, you don't reach based on position.
desperate teams reach for positions....
[quote] In comment 13609852 WillVAB said:
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In comment 13609835 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 13609827 WillVAB said:
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I say screw the Giants and ask for a trade to JAX.
If I'm Eli, I refuse a trade. He negotiated a contract with a no-trade clause. I play out the season and force the Giants to release him prior to the roster bonus coming due. This way, Eli can choose where he goes as a FA. If that so happens to be Jax, then so be it. But whatever team he signs with will negotiate based on current market value of QBs.
Good point. JAX would be a good landing spot though. Good young defense. Good running game. Solid OL. Coughlin connection. With Eli I think they'd be one receiver away from being a legit contender.
I think Jax would be ideal. And they have a ton of cap space to fit a QB contract. [/quot
the question is would the Jaguars want a 37 year old QB...
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Let's not forget that Gilbride mentioned he sensed the offense being broken as far back as 2012.
Funny, that he would have considered that offense "broken" when it scored 35+ in 6 games and scored 40+ in 4 games.
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
I could be getting the year wrong. But I clearly recall an interview or or comments Gilbride made somewhere that mentioned he could see "signs" of the offense breaking or becoming broken. It came out maybe 6 months after he was let go. I'm paraphrasing. I'll see if I can find the article.
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Let's not forget that Gilbride mentioned he sensed the offense being broken as far back as 2012.
Funny, that he would have considered that offense "broken" when it scored 35+ in 6 games and scored 40+ in 4 games.
That team scored 429 points. At the rate we are currently going, it will take us 3 seasons to reach that number.
He was right.
Go back to the second half of the 2012 season and you could see game in which the o-line was getting run over (Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Atlanta, Baltimore) and leading to terrible results.
The only games in which they performed well (Green Bay, New Orleans, Philadelphia) against in that final stretch all had horrific defenses and luckily their awfulness led to our success.
The organization gambled that the guys (Boothe, Snee, Baas, Diehl) given one more chance to get healthy would be able to hold up and lead the team to a playoff year.
Just like where this year is headed, they will lose that bet decisively and the season will be destroyed because of it.
There is no quarterback who can make McAdoo's dog shit offense turn into something other than McAdoo's dog shit offense. I see zero reason to believe that McAdoo's dog shit offense is somehow going to start to produce this weekend in Philly. All this lossing will lead to worse things, locker room spats, leaks to the media about Eli's demise and probably to Eli being run out of town. Been saying for a long time, enjoy Eli while he's here, there won't likely another like him for a very long time.
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I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
the question is would the Jaguars want a 37 year old QB...
More like, do the Jaguars want to win? A desperate franchise who hasn't won anything since the last time he was in town has given Tom full control of football operations. If Tom thinks Eli has enough left in the tank, I could see Eli in teal.
This past off-season, the Jags were selling shirts "All In with Coughlin". And I was thinking what other franchise in the past 30 years have celebrated a VP of Football Operations signing in the manner that Jax has. Tom is a god down here and will be given whatever latitude to build a winner.
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In comment 13609963 Modus Operandi said:
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OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
.
I think this is one of those questions that's really easy to speak but takes a bit more thought.
The Giants are their own answer to this question. When the defense was terrible in 2015 with a defensive coordinator who had won a championship and was a fan favorite, people complained that Spags couldn't coach because he failed in New Orleans with no talent.
The Giants go out and add talent and field a top 5 defense that finished 2016 with the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.
So what happened to questioning whether Spags could coach or not?
We're putting too much stock in coaches making teams when it's talent that makes teams. You can't physically win at the line of scrimmage, it doesn't matter what's inside your playbook. It can be really easy to say things like "run more max protect plays" or "throw more screens" but how much mileage are you really expecting to get with that for the next 14 games? They're not getting beat on blitzes. They're losing even-strength matchups because they're not good enough at multiple line positions.
But it's like buying a great pick up truck and then complaining it's a lousy sports car. Yeah, it's a pick up, that's why you bought it! Eli is a pocket passer without great mobility. And he's usually been able to throw a nice long ball. His understanding of the game has often allowed him to slice up defenses. That's what they drafted, and that's what they got.
If they want a highly mobile QB who can throw on the run, and even run the ball, they could sit Eli and stick Geno in now, but they'll have to take what comes with that. If they still want that style of play, they could draft Baker Mayfield next year whose game is all about movement, escapability, throwing on the run and making plays with his legs.
But Eli doesn't block, play RB or drop passes that land in his hands. No other QB is going to fix that either.
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In comment 13609963 Modus Operandi said:
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I'm not convinced that it's solely the OL. The QB doesn't suit the offense and the offense is entirely too predictable and one dimensional. We are into year 4 of the Mcadoo offense and quite honestly, it might be significantly worse off now than when he took over from Gilbride.
I don't think it's a quick turnaround and would consider how to move on from both Eli and slick.
That makes no sense then. If you think Eli is not a match for the offense, then why fire both? Either cut Eli and get "your" QB or fire BM. Getting rid of both makes no sense.
Wrt Mcadoo, I just don't think very much of him as a coach. I think he's done a considerably worse job running the offense than his predecessor. I mean Gilbride, not Coughlin. His offense lacks any semblence of imagination or adjustment to what the defense is doing. The OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
When your offense is this unproductive for this long while running the same set for 97% of snaps and the next team is in the 70s, it's clear what he's doing isnt working. His idea of shaking things up is running some end arounds to Shep. How about stacking receivers? What about putting Odell in motion? DE abusing your LT, then why not run screens to that side? It's maddening and unwatchable.
As for Eli, I do think his skills have eroded over time. He hasn't played well for about 3 years really, imho, but I think it's more of a collection of things. Yes, he still can throw a deep ball, but he's become more inaccurate and more erratic. Most will say this is a product of the OL play, but I'm not so sure. He's played behind bad lines before. 2011 for example. While he was always prone to making bad choices, especially late in games, I think he's lost some of that nerve he used to have. He's been playing this game for a long time, he's made a lot of money. Maybe he's lost some of that competiveness that made him somewhat special. Lastly, I think many here are grateful for the two SB he gave us, so are unwilling to see his play fall off. It clearly has.
It won't be a PR disaster. It will be a team making a business decision to move on from a QB approaching 40 who's best days are behind him and no longer warrants 1/6 of the cap. It's happened many times before and will happen again.
I agree with a lot of what you say about BM. However, you somewhat contradict yourself. If BM and his offense are that bad, then that mean you can't really tell how much if any Eli's skills have eroded.
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In comment 13609981 JOrthman said:
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In comment 13609963 Modus Operandi said:
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OL play is poor? Okay, what's he done to remedy?
.
I think this is one of those questions that's really easy to speak but takes a bit more thought.
The Giants are their own answer to this question. When the defense was terrible in 2015 with a defensive coordinator who had won a championship and was a fan favorite, people complained that Spags couldn't coach because he failed in New Orleans with no talent.
The Giants go out and add talent and field a top 5 defense that finished 2016 with the #2 scoring defense in the NFL.
So what happened to questioning whether Spags could coach or not?
We're putting too much stock in coaches making teams when it's talent that makes teams. You can't physically win at the line of scrimmage, it doesn't matter what's inside your playbook. It can be really easy to say things like "run more max protect plays" or "throw more screens" but how much mileage are you really expecting to get with that for the next 14 games? They're not getting beat on blitzes. They're losing even-strength matchups because they're not good enough at multiple line positions.
Fair point. The OL is bad. We signed a block first TE in the offseason and paid him $5M. He plays in only 25% of your snaps. Good usage?
You have one of the quickest WRs in the league who plays something like 70% as the X. Why not play him more in the slot? Why not move him around? Put the guy in motion.
My point is, I don't buy that it's all the OL. I don't think McAdoo has gotten the most of the talent on offense. Not even close.