At what point do we give Davis Webb a try ?

after Eli gets knocked out in the 3rd quarter against the Eagles

.

of taking a meaningful snap in a Giants uniform than Nassib did, but I doubt you see him willingly this year.

If Eli is healthy they're not replacing him IMO.

And if Eli is injured Smith is next man up (at least until the Giants are mathematically eliminated) then you could see Davis if this OL gets Smith killed or he turns into a human turnover machine.

What would make things interesting is if Eli had a short-term injury (not hoping for this just saying it) and Smith came in and actually moved the team or helped spur the offense with his mobility.

I could see a legit QB controversy if that happens.

That is the only circumstance I could see Webb getting in the game.

long as Eli is healthy, you won't see Webb. It might happen if Eli gets hurt, Smith does badly, and the team is out of contention. The Giants at that point might need to at least something from Webb to help them make a decision about whether to use a first round pick on a QB in 2018.

Question.

only if Barber is right.

NEVER

and in pre-season games because they were WASTING reps with Josh.

....

In comment 13609712 UberAlias said:

Quote:

Question.

No, it would be considered pertinent planning for the future. If the team has no chance of making the playoffs, you have to see what you have in Webb.

Trade him now for a Left tackle

In comment 13609722 Koffman said:

Quote:

In comment 13609712 UberAlias said: Quote: Question. No, it would be considered pertinent planning for the future. If the team has no chance of making the playoffs, you have to see what you have in Webb.

Have to? Is this your logic, or the teams?

Unmasking the poor Oline play. At least Webb can scramble. However, the coach will not change EF, why would he bench Eli, who is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

In comment 13609734 UberAlias said:

Quote:

In comment 13609722 Koffman said: Quote: In comment 13609712 UberAlias said: Quote: Question. No, it would be considered pertinent planning for the future. If the team has no chance of making the playoffs, you have to see what you have in Webb. Have to? Is this your logic, or the teams?

It would be common sense, so I guess that would make it out of the question for current management.

Unmasking the poor Oline play. At least Webb can scramble. However, the coach will not change EF, why would he bench Eli, who is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

The fact that they drafted Webb it is clear they know they need to prepare for life after Eli, whenever it should come. But even with Webb, if there was a guy sitting there they had a strong conviction would be an elite franchise player, they would pull the trigger regardless. The Patriots have drafted multiple guys.

opening day against the Cowboys

#2 on the depth chart first.

I think they drafted Davis Webb for a reason.

How many legitimate, franchise starting QB's have been found after the first round of the draft? Brees was a second rounder, and only flourished when he left SD, Wilson is an exception, so is Carr (although if his name was Derek Jones, he would've been a top 5 pick), and I guess Cousins. The theory of the developmental backup after the first round really doesn't exist either. Guys like Matt Schaub, Brock Osweiler, Kevin Kolb, etc. all were groomed and started for other teams to mixed results.

My point is, I don't think Davis Webb is anywhere close to being NFL ready, and quite frankly, may never be the type of QB we would consider handing the keys of the franchise too.

from most teams. Why he slipped I don't know, but every draft players slip. He has the size, skills, and mental makeup to succeed, and so far he has done well with the things the Giants gave him to do. He has to work on getting the ball from under center, as do a lot of college QB's, and obviously he needs to get better at reading defenses so he can us the total offense. All basic rookie stuff. If we had a crappy team like Cleveland, or didn't have Eli), he may be starting like Kizer.

I don't buy the argument we should just give up on him solely because we got him as a steal in round 3. He's got a big arm and great size, plus he did light it up for Cal. If we take a chance on a 1st rd picked QB next year, and mark yes its a chance as there is no sure thing in QB picks, then we've given up on last years 3rd pick before even seeing what we have.

you know - this same thread was posted two years ago.

It was titled:

At what point do we give Ryan Nassib a try?

At no fucking time. Eli can still play and still makes plays. Switch up the OL and stop calling a game with your head in the fucking same and scared shitless. How maby times can he go with 11 personnel and call 2 yard pass with 3 to 5 yards to go on 3rd or 4th down? Address that and th is offense improves.

In comment 13609808 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

from most teams. Why he slipped I don't know, but every draft players slip. He has the size, skills, and mental makeup to succeed, and so far he has done well with the things the Giants gave him to do. He has to work on getting the ball from under center, as do a lot of college QB's, and obviously he needs to get better at reading defenses so he can us the total offense. All basic rookie stuff. If we had a crappy team like Cleveland, or didn't have Eli), he may be starting like Kizer. I don't buy the argument we should just give up on him solely because we got him as a steal in round 3. He's got a big arm and great size, plus he did light it up for Cal. If we take a chance on a 1st rd picked QB next year, and mark yes its a chance as there is no sure thing in QB picks, then we've given up on last years 3rd pick before even seeing what we have.

Davis Webb did not have a first round grade by any team. If he did, he never would've made it out of the top 40....QB's almost never slip. I think most teams had him graded right where we took him....a developmental prospect with solid tools, but a long, long way to go. He may be that rare developmental guy that turns into a quality NFL starter, but he is certainly not ready to see the field now.

if anyone it would be geno..which isn't good..only thing is more mobile..but his flaws outweigh that positive.

In comment 13609820 Sal in Jersey said:

Quote:

Davis Webb did not have a first round grade by any team. If he did, he never would've made it out of the top 40....QB's almost never slip. I think most teams had him graded right where we took him....a developmental prospect with solid tools, but a long, long way to go. He may be that rare developmental guy that turns into a quality NFL starter, but he is certainly not ready to see the field now.

Yeah I don't know why anyone would think this? Any team that had a first round grade on him really needs to rethink their scouting process.. If Eli sucks this year and we end up with a top 5 pick I won't even give webb a second thought..

In comment 13609820 Sal in Jersey said:

Quote:

In comment 13609808 PatersonPlank said: Quote: from most teams. Why he slipped I don't know, but every draft players slip. He has the size, skills, and mental makeup to succeed, and so far he has done well with the things the Giants gave him to do. He has to work on getting the ball from under center, as do a lot of college QB's, and obviously he needs to get better at reading defenses so he can us the total offense. All basic rookie stuff. If we had a crappy team like Cleveland, or didn't have Eli), he may be starting like Kizer. I don't buy the argument we should just give up on him solely because we got him as a steal in round 3. He's got a big arm and great size, plus he did light it up for Cal. If we take a chance on a 1st rd picked QB next year, and mark yes its a chance as there is no sure thing in QB picks, then we've given up on last years 3rd pick before even seeing what we have. Davis Webb did not have a first round grade by any team. If he did, he never would've made it out of the top 40....QB's almost never slip. I think most teams had him graded right where we took him....a developmental prospect with solid tools, but a long, long way to go. He may be that rare developmental guy that turns into a quality NFL starter, but he is certainly not ready to see the field now.

What kind of grade did Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Russel Wilson or even Dak Prescott have ? The suggestion that Webb be judged by where he was drafted is silly. In limited pre season action it looks like Webb has talent and promise. In extensive NFL action Smith has shown that he does not have promise. I don't think any rational person is suggesting that Webb replace a healthy Eli, no matter how badly Eli plays. That being said, keep Gino Smith on the roster is a waste of time. He may give us a marginally better chance of winning now, but in the meantime reps in practice that would better used on Webb are going to Smith. If Eli goes down fro more than a game, playing Smith is time wasted.

He is awful and the question is ridiculous. Just ask any Jet fan how good Geno is.

into the line-up if we had no chance at postseason play. The idea is to see what Webb has on the field, so we can assess if we need to draft a QB high in the following years draft. We already basically know what Geno has, which isnt much.

give out 3rd round pick a chance before you throw him in the gutter. He's done nothing but work hard and do what is asked. I think its crazy to just dismiss the guy because he hasn't played to because we didn't get him in the 1st round. He has just as much of a chance to make it as any QB coming out in next years draft.

That'll be nothing if you start Webb. That kid is so raw he's basically starting from scratch.

In comment 13609966 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

give out 3rd round pick a chance before you throw him in the gutter. He's done nothing but work hard and do what is asked. I think its crazy to just dismiss the guy because he hasn't played to because we didn't get him in the 1st round. He has just as much of a chance to make it as any QB coming out in next years draft.

I read this same post from you yesterday and would love to know what you're basing this on.

Webb transferred from one air-raid offense to another. He has never played in a pro style offense prior to arriving in camp. Not a single snap. He has a good arm but lacks accuracy and touch on short and intermediate passes. He has issues reading defenses.

He fell to the third round in one of the worst QB classes in recent memory. If he were coming out this year it's very likely he falls to late third day.

To say he has just as much chance of making it as true blue chippers who are dominating while running real offenses is quite bizarre and lazy.

In comment 13609979 Modus Operandi said:

Quote:

In comment 13609966 PatersonPlank said: Quote: give out 3rd round pick a chance before you throw him in the gutter. He's done nothing but work hard and do what is asked. I think its crazy to just dismiss the guy because he hasn't played to because we didn't get him in the 1st round. He has just as much of a chance to make it as any QB coming out in next years draft. I read this same post from you yesterday and would love to know what you're basing this on. Webb transferred from one air-raid offense to another. He has never played in a pro style offense prior to arriving in camp. Not a single snap. He has a good arm but lacks accuracy and touch on short and intermediate passes. He has issues reading defenses. He fell to the third round in one of the worst QB classes in recent memory. If he were coming out this year it's very likely he falls to late third day. To say he has just as much chance of making it as true blue chippers who are dominating while running real offenses is quite bizarre and lazy.

My position is that its crazy to just give up on a 3rd round pick before even giving him a chance. We have the worst OL in the league, and we have two QBs (Geno aside), one is an aging veteran who can still play, and the other is a promising looking rookie who has been basically redshirted this season to learn. If we end up with a top pick I don't understand the folks who are advocating using the top pick on another promising QB, who will also be redshirted will learning, and ignore the worst OL in football. Drafting another skill player before addressing this line is nuts.

In addition Webb was very good for Cal, and I think this QB class will turn out to be pretty good. With QB's you never can tell, many promising college QB's have failed. This year we see Trubisky about to start (and has looked good), Kizer and Watson are starting, and Mahommes has looked good but is behind a pretty good player. In the end drafts get graded by how the players actually do, not by some people picking while they are still in college.

If Webb hadn't looked good in his limited chances I may have a different opinion. However he has looked good IMO, better than Geno already, and I would much, much rather draft the best OL player in Rd 1 and give Webb a chance. I think that is a much better, and more rational, approach to fixing this team.

we gave them a year and look at how they are turning out. You can't just keep replacing the same positions every year through the draft without giving the picks a chance.

I think it's nuts to hand the keys over to a guy who's never run a pro offense. The fact that hee look okay in a few snaps during preseason against third stringers is meaningless. If the team thought he was ready, they would have given him the backup job rather than sign a bunch of journeymen.

Let me reiterate. He's never played in a pro offense. Never. That means his reading of defenses, timing, knowing when to check down, , move in the pocket, take a coverage sack are all behind the curve. Even for a rookie. That's significant experience and paramount to being a successful QB. How many tough defenses did he ever play?

Finally, here are a list of QB who played in similar offenses to Webb in college:

J. Manziel
K. Kolb
G. Smith
T. Couch
J. Heupel
N. Foles
J. Beck
B. Weeden
J. Goff

All guys who played in similar systems and drafted in the first 3 rounds. How many ever started and played well, much less did so in their second season while redshirting the first? Just one that I can see.

I'm not suggesting we cut Webb loose. But if we are bad enough to get a top 5 pick and chance at a franchise type QB, we would be nuts to pass because we have Webb.

I'm not sure that Trubisky did either, but if he did he only played it for one year. Kizer I think was closer, but in reality no college runs a pro offense anymore. Also Goff cam from Cal and he's turned out ok.

Look I don't want to argue this anymore. I just think he's shown enough to be Eli's backup, and would rather draft an OL and try to fix the the biggest problem, then use our first pick to draft another QB who will be Eli's back-up.

And playing in an offense where he didn't even take snaps from under center, which is the case. It's a massive adjustment for him and he was advertised as a player that was going to take some time.

There is no reason to think otherwise given the information about Davis Webb that we have available. Angst about the current season doesn't justify putting a QB who may not be prepared to play in harm's way by putting him on the field prematurely without any pass protection. That's a great way to damage his potential development.

about finishing near last and using the 1st pick on another QB. This year its Geno once Eli goes down, although it would be good to get Webbs feet wet at times.

In comment 13610046 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

it would be good to get Webbs feet wet at times.

I bet he's a terrific swimmer.

.

years...

3 years...

In comment 13609789 Sal in Jersey said:

Quote:

How many legitimate, franchise starting QB's have been found after the first round of the draft? Brees was a second rounder, and only flourished when he left SD, Wilson is an exception, so is Carr (although if his name was Derek Jones, he would've been a top 5 pick), and I guess Cousins. The theory of the developmental backup after the first round really doesn't exist either. Guys like Matt Schaub, Brock Osweiler, Kevin Kolb, etc. all were groomed and started for other teams to mixed results. My point is, I don't think Davis Webb is anywhere close to being NFL ready, and quite frankly, may never be the type of QB we would consider handing the keys of the franchise too.

Brady was 6th round, no? Dak, while not yet a proven franchise QB, wasinthe 4th. Kurt Warner wasn't drafted. It's not likely, but it does happen.

See if the Giants get back on track before we write off the season

is the main culprit why in the fuck would you want to have a rookie take snaps and get killed?

keep those questions trolling
rawhide

move em up
pull your head out your....
rawhide

Too bad they didn't give Webb reps in camp
ZogZerg : 2:30 pm : link : reply
and in pre-season games because they were WASTING reps with Josh.

Webb won't see the field until both Eli and Geno are hurt
they didn't do Webb any favors in preseason thats for sure.

And no one should be planning any future with Webb either. If the Giants find themselves in the position to get a franchise qb in next year's draft they had better do it unless Webb blows the NFL away this year. Don't bet on that.

THe way the Giants handled Webb this past summer was questionable. Didn't like it then and I'm even more irratated by it now.