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Report: Aaron Hernandez had "severe" CTE

DanMetroMan : 9/21/2017 4:22 pm
In a news conference at his offices, attorney Jose Baez says testing showed that Hernandez had a severe case of the disease.

CTE can be caused by repeated head trauma and leads to symptoms like violent mood swings, depression and other cognitive difficulties. Hernandez killed himself in April in the jail cell where he was serving a life-without-parole sentence for a 2013 murder. His death came just hours before the Patriots visited the White House to celebrate their latest Super Bowl victory.

CTE can only be diagnosed in an autopsy. A recent study found evidence of the disease in 110 of 111 former NFL players whose brains were examined.
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Wasn't the 110 out of 111 number  
lawguy9801 : 9/21/2017 4:29 pm : link
self-selected, in that the players whose brains were examined were already exhibiting some of the signs of the disease?

While CTE is no doubt prevalent, I doubt that 99%-plus of NFL players have it.
RE: Wasn't the 110 out of 111 number  
BlackLight : 9/21/2017 4:36 pm : link
In comment 13609908 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
self-selected, in that the players whose brains were examined were already exhibiting some of the signs of the disease?

While CTE is no doubt prevalent, I doubt that 99%-plus of NFL players have it.


I don't think its as simple as not having it at vs. having it to a degree that you can't stop wanting to kill yourself or you can't control whether you kill others. I think there are probably gradations of having it.

I'm betting many players or former players have it to a degree that they don't exhibit symptoms. Maybe they live to a reasonably old age. Then they die, and we check their brains, and we find out they had evidence of CTE.
He must have been born with it  
HomerJones45 : 9/21/2017 4:42 pm : link
he wasn't exactly a choir boy as a kid.
RE: RE: Wasn't the 110 out of 111 number  
lawguy9801 : 9/21/2017 4:42 pm : link
In comment 13609920 BlackLight said:
Quote:
In comment 13609908 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


self-selected, in that the players whose brains were examined were already exhibiting some of the signs of the disease?

While CTE is no doubt prevalent, I doubt that 99%-plus of NFL players have it.



I don't think its as simple as not having it at vs. having it to a degree that you can't stop wanting to kill yourself or you can't control whether you kill others. I think there are probably gradations of having it.

I'm betting many players or former players have it to a degree that they don't exhibit symptoms. Maybe they live to a reasonably old age. Then they die, and we check their brains, and we find out they had evidence of CTE.


Maybe you're right. I hope that the NFL and equipment companies are working overtime on advanced helmets that prevent CTE, because if not, football is eventually going to die in this country from not enough kids playing.
also need a sample  
Dankbeerman : 9/21/2017 4:44 pm : link
vs non football athletes and plain avearage americans.
the only ones tested  
Dankbeerman : 9/21/2017 4:46 pm : link
were those requested to be tested because they were thinking something was wrong
RE: He must have been born with it  
Chris in Philly : 9/21/2017 5:28 pm : link
In comment 13609929 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
he wasn't exactly a choir boy as a kid.


Nobody said he got it in the NFL. That is why it's so scary. You can get it in college. In high school. Maybe even peewee.
The con game continues......  
Dry Lightning : 9/21/2017 6:20 pm : link
Complete bullshit and scam for money. This stupid bullshit will end football one day. Everyone has some degree of "CTE". EVERYONE. Damn fools.
It's not going to end football  
Big Rick in FL : 9/21/2017 6:30 pm : link
There are 100s of thousands who don't really care about the risk, because they want to be rich and famous. That will never change.
RE: The con game continues......  
Modus Operandi : 9/21/2017 6:35 pm : link
In comment 13610040 Dry Lightning said:
Quote:
Complete bullshit and scam for money. This stupid bullshit will end football one day. Everyone has some degree of "CTE". EVERYONE. Damn fools.


Well, since you've used CAPS, you clearly have your finger on the pulse of cutting edge science.
RE: Wasn't the 110 out of 111 number  
ThreePoints : 9/21/2017 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13609908 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
self-selected, in that the players whose brains were examined were already exhibiting some of the signs of the disease?

While CTE is no doubt prevalent, I doubt that 99%-plus of NFL players have it.


The researchers conducting these are super clear that there is selection bias. They're very upfront about that, as these brains are donated by families who suspect CTE. They're also on record saying to take caution to assume correlation, as none has been made.

But, they have said football is dangerous.
I also  
nccowboyfan : 9/21/2017 6:48 pm : link
Have to lean towards bullshit. We have larger sample sizes, and it's called everyone on Earth. People are depressed, commit suicide, rape, and murder who have never played a down of football. I am open to being wrong, I can admit when I am. Are these things being blamed on CTA that much more prevalent in football than other sports, and or the real world per capita? I don't have access to that information, and I am sure I am over simplifying it to some extent. I would venture to guess, however, that if the NFL was broke as a dog, it would be a non-issue. No one would care.
By the way, former NFL player John Urschel  
ThreePoints : 9/21/2017 6:49 pm : link
Was on the Freakonomics podcast a few weeks ago talking about this (linked below). He made news when he retired from the Ravens before this season.

Credit to the Freakonomics team for this transcript. By the way, CTE researcher Ann McKee is quoted first.

Quote:


McKEE: Yeah. I don’t think we’re at the point where we can talk about a definitive risk estimate for an N.F.L. player. I do think the 99 percent — although we have said in every interview and we said it very clearly in that paper — that number became larger than life. But that wasn’t because of the authors of the scientific manuscript.

URSCHEL: Frankly, there is a strong case of self-selection bias there and that cannot be ignored.

DUBNER: In other words, the brains that are being donated to this bank were from families or players who suspected that they had C.T.E. or something close to that. Is that what you’re talking about?

URSCHEL: Yes. I can’t say that I know for certain that it’s self-selection bias. But my instincts tell me it’s extremely likely that it is.

McKEE: It’s not a general population of all people in the community or all football players in the community. If we had those population studies, I’m sure the risk would be lower. However, the question is, “Would the risk be acceptable?” In my opinion, this study says, “No, it would not be acceptable.”

DUBNER: I assume the timing of the study and your decision were not coincidental?

URSCHEL: No, I don’t think it was necessarily coincidental but I don’t think it was necessarily directly causal. The best, the easiest way I can explain it is that it was causal in one respect but not in the way that most people think it was. The way that it was causal is that it really reopened the dialogue within, talking to myself and also between myself and my fiance. It really opened a dialogue that I had not opened in an extremely long time.

DUBNER: Why was that? I mean, can I psychoanalyze you for one second?

URSCHEL: Yes, of course, feel free.

DUBNER: Is [it] because you loved playing football so much that even though the rational part of your brain — that maybe contained the mathematical abilities in your brain — you were able to override that or quiet it down so that you could keep doing what you wanted to do?

URSCHEL: Yes! That’s a good way to put it. This thing comes out and obviously it’s not 99 percent. Like it’s 99 percent in the study but it’s like, for me, is my chances 99 percent? I highly doubt it. Is it 0 percent? I highly doubt it. But it’s not 99 percent and the biggest thing it did was it made me say, “I should actually probably think about this again.” Not like, “This new evidence is extremely overwhelming [and changes] my opinion.” It’s more like, “This really brings something to my attention in a very real way that, quite frankly, I was more or less aware of but attempting to ignore to a degree.” In the back of my head, I had already been having these thoughts to some degree about my longevity and how long I wanted to play. The main thing that I thought about [was], “What was I most passionate about and what was I most excited about in life going forward?” When I thought about, “What are these one or two or three things?” Football, all of a sudden, was not one of these top two or three things. Football is actually actively hindering me from doing some of these things. Well, then it became a real conversation.

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There are some...  
Chris in Philly : 9/21/2017 7:39 pm : link
powerfully stupid peoole around here.
RE: He must have been born with it  
mattlawson : 9/21/2017 7:39 pm : link
In comment 13609929 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
he wasn't exactly a choir boy as a kid.


He wasn't sexually abused? I don't get the comparison
RE: Wasn't the 110 out of 111 number  
81_Great_Dane : 9/21/2017 7:55 pm : link
In comment 13609908 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
self-selected, in that the players whose brains were examined were already exhibiting some of the signs of the disease?

While CTE is no doubt prevalent, I doubt that 99%-plus of NFL players have it.
Nobody is arguing that's the %. The study establishes 99% or so as the upper limit. (In other words, the fact that one dead football player did not have CTE proves that not all football players get it.)

The lower limit is more interesting. During the time that study was conducted, they tested the brains of about 10% of the NFLers who died. About 1100 died, about 110 tested. If you assume that not a single one of the other 990 who went untested had CTE, you get a CTE occurrence of 9% or 10%. That's about twice the rate of the general population.

So taking the most optimistic view of the data, playing football in HS + college + NFL, appears to roughly double the risk of CTE.

The data doesn't "prove" anything more than that, but I bet the real % is closer to 99% than 9%. When you see guys who died young, like Aaron Hernandez, with advanced CTE, that indicates you don't have to play for 15 years or something. You can get it after just a few years of regular game play.

And it's not necessarily something that sets in later in life. It's not "Play now, get your money, but you'll have trouble when you're 60." It's like, ":lay now, and you'll have trouble, maybe now, maybe later. If you're lucky you'll get your money first, but maybe not."
Read some of the Peer Reviwed  
Spike13 : 9/21/2017 8:24 pm : link
Literature on CTE, and the causation/correlation argument becomes nothing more than NFL marketing. I've watched these players, and Hernandez, may be the exception. Andre Waters, was a warrior, and it's easy to excuse his tenacity on the field if you're a fan of the Giants. Mike Webster, Junior Seau, and our own beloved Dave Deurson: all humble men, that left it on the field on Sunday's. I have gotten to the point that between the greed of the owners, and the product that we're force fed now, I may t are my Sunday's back when Eli, retires.

You cannot be a fan of the game, and watch the thumpers be relageted to wheelchairs, and think the NFL, isn't complicit. I've seen players come back on the field following "concussion protocol," that are absolutely lost.
RE: The con game continues......  
81_Great_Dane : 9/21/2017 8:28 pm : link
In comment 13610040 Dry Lightning said:
Quote:
Everyone has some degree of "CTE". EVERYONE. Damn fools.
Can you point to some evidence of that?

As I understand it from articles I've read, the incidence of CTE in the general population is around 5%.

And that includes everyone: boxers, competitive martial artists, football and soccer payers and other people who have their brains jostled a lot.
I Fear That Once  
Spike13 : 9/21/2017 9:08 pm : link
The armed forces begin any legitimate study, we'll find the incidence rates among Veterans, higher then former NFL'ers. or Boxers.
RE: I Fear That Once  
81_Great_Dane : 9/21/2017 10:19 pm : link
In comment 13610175 Spike13 said:
Quote:
The armed forces begin any legitimate study, we'll find the incidence rates among Veterans, higher then former NFL'ers. or Boxers.
The emerging research on being exposed to explosions/blast effects is worrisome. It's very possible that simply being exposed to the pressure changes from grenades going off, artillery being fired, etc. is enough to trigger CTE in some people.
RE: There are some...  
christian : 9/21/2017 10:45 pm : link
In comment 13610085 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
powerfully stupid peoole around here.


Great byproduct of free speech is the heads up on who to avoid in life. Discussing CTE is a veritable Bat signal for some dodos to come out.

Of course there's selection bias. All disease study begins with a biased population at some point.

And then populations and studies expand and the standard sciences of disease study kick in.

But by all means ignore the directional evidence and close up shop because you might not like the results.
If they perform autopsies on Congress  
Vanzetti : 9/22/2017 1:03 am : link
I guarantee that the rate will be higher than the NFL
No, it would be quite low in Congress.  
manh george : 9/22/2017 1:33 am : link
They don't use their heads for anything. And by the pound, the incidence would be really low.

Do you know how many Congressman's brains it takes to make a pound?

More seriously, the incidence might only be double that in the general population--which I doubt--but how many in the general population have the version that causes the symptoms of early onset Alzeimers, plus plus plus? How many in the general population have a brain so badly deteriorated that they shoot themselves in the chest, in order to save the brain for the scientists?

Anyone who thinks that you can ignore the degree of CTE in order to justify that there isn't any problem...just might have CTE.
RE: If they perform autopsies on Congress  
x meadowlander : 9/22/2017 9:03 am : link
In comment 13610352 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
I guarantee that the rate will be higher than the NFL
HAAAAA.

FWIW, this helps to explain what happened with Hernandez.

I honestly feel NFL as we know it is enjoying it's final years - lawsuits will inevitably cause dramatic changes. I've said it before - look to the Sprint football model - weight limit's - for the future.
RE: I Fear That Once  
section125 : 9/22/2017 9:16 am : link
In comment 13610175 Spike13 said:
Quote:
The armed forces begin any legitimate study, we'll find the incidence rates among Veterans, higher then former NFL'ers. or Boxers.


I don't know about boxers - the very essence is to pound the head.

But considering the soldiers can be killed "merely" by the concussion/shock wave of an explosion, I would agree with you. Supposedly internal organs can be jellified by large explosions and soldiers die without being hit by the shrapnel.

Considering Hernandez barely played in the NFL, you would have to figure most of the damage came from college and high school.
No it doesn't...  
WideRight : 9/22/2017 9:18 am : link
CTE is going to be a prefect scapegoat for this scumbag.

CTE is serious and needs to be managed very professionally, so no disrespect.

But this dirt bag was a gang member as a teen and shot someone in face at age 19 while at Miami. CTE did not have anything to do with his psycopathology at that time. Now its all going to be blamed on CTE.
I'm assuning  
Pete in MD : 9/22/2017 9:27 am : link
the lawyer is the same Jose Baez who defended (and allegedly had a sexual relationship with) Casey Anthony. That guy is a fucking national treasure.
got to love america...  
GMAN4LIFE : 9/22/2017 9:48 am : link
suing a system because of her husbands actions.
'are working overtime on advanced helmets that prevent CTE'  
schabadoo : 9/22/2017 11:00 am : link
They should consider removing 90% of these ridiculous facemasks to discourage face-first and head-first tackles.

I wonder how do rugby players stack up to football players regarding CTE.
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