Washington Post/PFF Article on Eli Manning: Not a System Fit

And Mac said "he's the perfect quarterback for this offense

And Mac said "he's the perfect quarterback for this offense".

Was he full of shit then or now

any coach that needs the "perfect fit" to succeed is doomed to failure.

Any coach that values the system over the talent he has will not have long-term success.

Oh my bad, I actually thought it was the position group that can't run block AND pass block!

I think Smith went an entire season in KC without throwing a TD to a WR - so maybe he is perfect for an offense that is blowing chunks right now.

In comment 13610154 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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any coach that needs the "perfect fit" to succeed is doomed to failure. Any coach that values the system over the talent he has will not have long-term success.

Agreed 100%.

A good coach evaluates the talent he has and devises a scheme/game plan that best utilizes those talents. He doesn't try to fit the talent into his system like a square peg into a round hole.

What kind of offense do you run?

My offense is one where I want a QB that is able to run for his life because I want shitty offensive linemen.

In comment 13610172 robbieballs2003 said:

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What kind of offense do you run? My offense is one where I want a QB that is able to run for his life because I want shitty offensive linemen.

I think they're saying it has more to do with his underneath passing game more than mobility per se.

either PFF or Football Outsiders had Eli in the top 10 (I think it was 8th) in "pocket elusiveness" last year. Some stupid metric about avoiding likely sacks.

I posted in another thread that the idea the NFL is moving towards mobile QB's isn't really true. The top QB's are mainly pocket passers. Ryan, Brady, Brees, Ben R., Palmer, Dalton, etc.

We're collectively sucking as a whole with an efficiency that is greater than the sum of its parts. Eli is certainly at fault. The OL is ABSOLUTELY at fault. And McAdoo is a big part of it as well. Fundamentally, there isn't anything wrong with the offense that we are running. However, we aren't properly equipped to run it efficiently and the opposition has a total bead on our tendencies. It's nice that we are switching up our base personnel a little more than last year, however it's still the same slant/flat offense. Maybe switch that up a little? Throw the opposition a curveball with some different route concepts out of similar formations? We're not going to magically start start clicking after over half a season of ineptitude. He needs to break away from tendency, which is why a switch in playcalling will be beneficial. It does not have to be permanent, but he needs to break out of a rut and the easiest way to do that is to take a breather and do a serious self audit. For the time being, adding a variable of unpredictability with a new playcaller could be the spark we need.

The season is basically over because of 2 stubborn egotistical bastards . . . Reese and McAdoo. But replacing either or both now won't solve anything.

If Johnny has the balls, he needs to shit can both after the season.

The first thing I noticed when McAdoo installed the offense as OC is how confident Eli was in the pocket.

The system is fine. The offense is struggling because the line isn't doing a good job protecting Eli, so DBs can afford to sit on routes and make tackles to limit the damage.

In comment 13610152 mattlawson said:

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And Mac said "he's the perfect quarterback for this offense

Exactly, and that's what I've been saying about Mara and/or Reese being sold a bill of goods.

But wasn't Ben brought in to elevate Eli's game, and said he could do it?

Also, in his first season a OC, didn't they work on Elis foot work and roll him out a lot? Or am I just getting old and misremembering?

...

In comment 13610154 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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any coach that needs the "perfect fit" to succeed is doomed to failure. Any coach that values the system over the talent he has will not have long-term success.

Indeed. Can you imagine if Belichick was that stubborn and inflexible?

But it's not the ideal offense for Eli's game. His ideal system is a play-action vertical offense.

the short passing game is the only way the offense even has a chance to move the ball. The blocking won't allow long routes to develop and it won't help a running game.

That was back when PFF was trying to claim Randle was an above average WR though.

I'm also not buying the Giants leading the league in separation last year when they gave 73% of their snaps to Victor Cruz and some of the numbers from both FO and Fahey run directly contrary, but it wouldn't be the first time their charting was weird lately.

had held onto the ball, none of this craziness would be happening. Yeah, Eli's no Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady, and our OL is poor, but...

In comment 13610153 mattlawson said:

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And Mac said "he's the perfect quarterback for this offense". Was he full of shit then or now

First of all, what did you expect him to say? That's a canned answer just like 90% of all answers at all press conferences are, regardless of industry.

And when has BMc said anything since then to contradict that original statement?

Did your reading comprehension suck then or now?

Is Eli on decline? Sure. I've been arguing that for the last few years. But..

You're not gonna come in here and challenge our two time SB winning QB. He's the golden child of this organization. If McAdoo is a good coach he'll make the adjustments that helps Eli. If not see ya.

root of the quarterback problem in New York is a distinct stylistic difference between Manning’s strengths and Head Coach Ben McAdoo’s offense. Manning simply isn’t an accurate enough passer at the underneath level to execute it efficiently. The offense McAdoo brought over from Green Bay is predicated on getting receivers separation underneath, hitting them in stride, and moving the chains through yards after the catch.

Always has had problems running screens even swing passes
struggles with dump offs throwing at there feet .
I never felt this style of offense suited Eli .

alex smith problem has always been his skittishness to throw downfield
this year he is finally throwing the long ball instead of just check downs and is having huge success

Where Eli was unreal in this system behind an equally bad OL and less talent on the rest of the offense? Who the fuck would want Alex Smith over him?

with the same short game. He doesn't suck in the short game and his inability to rush for first downs isn't his downfall. He is one of the least sacked QBs during his tenure. He avoids most pressure and extends plays in his own right.

and to grow a pair of balls to fucking fix the mess of the OL that he helped correct and use those new balls to start fucking calling passes more than 2 yards on 3rd and 3.

In comment 13610364 Matt M. said:

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Where Eli was unreal in this system behind an equally bad OL and less talent on the rest of the offense? Who the fuck would want Alex Smith over him?

That was Tom Coughlins offense. Since Mac installed his offense the offense has sucked ass.

I got a great idea. Why don't the Giants just fire the GM and scouts and hire PFF to grade the college players? The Giants then would never miss on any draft picks. Say we want a OL player next draft. Just pick the top graded OL on PFF. Perfect. Make it happen. Hell you can even do the same with free agents. No need for a GM or scouts. Waste of money.

In comment 13610172 robbieballs2003 said:

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What kind of offense do you run? My offense is one where I want a QB that is able to run for his life because I want shitty offensive linemen.

I agree with you Robbie that his lack of mobility is not "THE PROBLEM". What I will say is that a mobile QB creates additional opportunities for the offense and makes it more difficult for other teams to defend. How many times have we discussed the need to contain the other QB making sure he does not kill is with his legs picking up first downs?

never has it been the throws you make in a west coast system.

Granted, the offensive line isn't exactly the best for passing downfield, but my lord Ben Mc is a stubborn MFer

when John Jerry misses a stunt and Eli nearly gets decapitated on the second play of the game against Dallas. Or when Haloti Ngata banzai drops Eli into the fieldturf.

Is Eli missing guys? Absolutely. But he's taking a beating these last 18 games in an offense that gives him no chance to succeed. He's a sitting duck back there.

Who are these quarterbacks who are successful with a god-awful o-line? When/where have we seen that work? If the team had a decent - not good, just decent - running game, an o-line that gave him SOME time, and receivers who actually caught the f---ing ball, Eli would look a heck of a lot better.

Friggin' Brandon Marshall drops a perfect pass down the sideline. Later, the announcers talk about how awesome the defense was when he had the ball knocked away in the end zone, but maybe if he'd turned and actually fought for the friggin' ball things would have been different. Seriously - with all that went wrong in that game, if Marshall had come up big on those two plays, the result might have been different. (Was that shit effort on a pass to Eli's left near the LOS this game, too? I recall there being room to run if that had been caught.)

I try hard not to be an alarmist, but if there's anyone available out there who can significantly help the o-line, Reese must be aggressive in obtaining him before this season slips away.

I had high hopes for this season. So very, very frustrated and disappointed...

In comment 13610177 FatMan
I posted in another thread that the idea the NFL is moving towards mobile QB's isn't really true. The top QB's are mainly pocket passers. Ryan, Brady, Brees, Ben R., Palmer, Dalton, etc. [/quote]

That's a little misleading Fats. First of all, on what planet are Andy Dalton and Carson Palmer "top QB's"? And all of them are on the wrong side of 30. If you look at the younger crop of starting QB's, the trend definitely favors more mobility.

I disagree. The need for QB mobility in a WCO is greatly overstated. It's nice to have, but getting rid of the ball quickly with accuracy are the premium needs in that offense.

Eli's completion % has been in the low 60's since the WCO was implemented, which is fine. His first 2 years in this offense, he threw for almost 9,000 yards, 65 TD's and only 28 INT's. What changed? His pass pro got much worse. It is the protection that is the problem.

the article isn't really about mobility, it's about short passing accuracy. I can't disagree with the idea that Eli has some short passing accuracy issues and that it has an effect on the offense. How many screens do we see RB/TE/WR contort their body and lose momentum to make their catch while defenders crash down hard on them, resulting in very little YAC? I'm not talking about slants over the middle or deep balls. I'm talking about the short throws towards the sidelines.

This part of our game has sucked for years, and I think Eli's touch on the short pass is part of the reason why. I don't understand McAdoo's scheme enough to know if this is a major part of its design, but if so, it makes sense to say that Eli isn't a good fit for the scheme.

Some will say "then why was he good in 2014-2015?", and I'll respond by saying that maybe defenses were figuring out the best way to defend the McAdoo offense. Or maybe the threat of OBJ caused defenses to adjust, taking away the best part of Eli's game.

Either way, it's not a bad idea to say that Eli is still a very talented QB but maybe a bad fit for this system. I'm not sure.

In comment 13610375 bradshaw44 said:

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In comment 13610364 Matt M. said: Quote: Where Eli was unreal in this system behind an equally bad OL and less talent on the rest of the offense? Who the fuck would want Alex Smith over him? That was Tom Coughlins offense. Since Mac installed his offense the offense has sucked ass.

2014 and 2015 were not Cougblin's offense. They were a WCO installed by McAdoo.

Is there any evidence that McAdoo’s “system” works? Such a stupid fucking notion that somehow this dog shit offense would click with Aaron Rodgers. None of the receivers get open, the line doesn’t pass or run block and the RB, at least five have now cycled through plays in this offense all seem to get about 2.5 yards per carry. This coaching staff is lost. But Alex Smith can run this offense. SMH.

In comment 13611099 Matt M. said:

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In comment 13610375 bradshaw44 said: Quote: In comment 13610364 Matt M. said: Quote: Where Eli was unreal in this system behind an equally bad OL and less talent on the rest of the offense? Who the fuck would want Alex Smith over him? That was Tom Coughlins offense. Since Mac installed his offense the offense has sucked ass. 2014 and 2015 were not Cougblin's offense. They were a WCO installed by McAdoo.

something changed in 2016 when McAdoo had free hand. Same o-line. Unless you think Randle was a key cog.