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The Giants seem to be too focused with one side of the ball

Sean : 9/21/2017 9:51 pm
This has been a trend since the end of the 2013 season.

-After 2013, Mara says the offense is broken and Gilbride is forced out and McAdoo hired. Beckham is drafted.

-After 2014/15, the defense is now broken. Spags is hired after 2014 & $200M spent on the defense.

-Now the offense is broken again.

I loved the 11-5 record last year, but I hate they way they're built. $200M in FA to cover up crappy drafting is not the answer. 2005-2011, this team was balanced better on both sides of the ball, perhaps less focused on either side and more focused on the team.
The sad part is not just how it's built  
Rjanyg : 9/21/2017 10:22 pm : link
But what to do with Pugh and Richburg, our 2 best OL.

They are both free agents and we have to re-up OBJ.

Oh yeah, we need a RG and a OT. Maybe a stud RB too.

Lots of work to do with the offense.
Sean  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/21/2017 11:13 pm : link
They spent $200 million on three players who turned the defense from dead last to a top 10 defense. No one was complaining about that last year.

They've invested a lot of resources on the offense too, especially this offseason. It hasn't worked out as well.

The biggest problem is this franchise no longer seems to know how to put an OL together. But they've spent resources to do so. Ineffectively.

There are a lot of things to complain about, but adding Harrison, Jenkins, and Vernon are not at the top of my list.
My girlfriend had this same problem  
8 Ball : 9/22/2017 1:28 am : link
Last night.
RE: Sean  
Matt M. : 9/22/2017 2:13 am : link
In comment 13610304 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
They spent $200 million on three players who turned the defense from dead last to a top 10 defense. No one was complaining about that last year.

They've invested a lot of resources on the offense too, especially this offseason. It hasn't worked out as well.

The biggest problem is this franchise no longer seems to know how to put an OL together. But they've spent resources to do so. Ineffectively.

There are a lot of things to complain about, but adding Harrison, Jenkins, and Vernon are not at the top of my list.
Well said. Not to mention that the notion they overlooked the offense is ridiculous. This offseason they drafted Engram in the first, signed Ellison and Marshall, added a FB, signed Fluker (not the best move), etc.

I have also said it many times the last two weeks, but I believe simply laying this on the OL is a copout. McAdoo was brought in to combat a bad OL and for two years his offense did just that. The OL was just as bad and they had less talent all around on offense. Yet, they had two prolific offensive seasons. After his elevation to HC his offense drastically changed and he is the person most responsible for that. He decided not to carry a FB last year and not to utilize a FB or 2 TE sets most of the time this year. He is the one that has run the ball on consecutive downs twice. He is the one who refused to bench shitty OL. He is the one who is constantly calling calling 2 year passes. And on and on. Last year, it appears more and more that 11-5 was the result of a great overhaul of the defensive personnel and not his talent as a HC. He appears more and more in over his head as a HC calling the plays.
But, while we're at it  
Matt M. : 9/22/2017 2:14 am : link
maybe the coaching staff needs an overhaul also. It's time to find a new OL coach and Quinn is long overdue to be canned.
RE: My girlfriend had this same problem  
SHO'NUFF : 9/22/2017 4:04 am : link
In comment 13610355 8 Ball said:
Quote:
Last night.


She likes to focus on the D, too, huh?
I dont care  
Glover : 9/22/2017 7:50 am : link
how the defense was built. All the big acquisitions were young, theres more than one way to get it done, Keeping draft picks after their rookie contract is rare. It's rare they live up to expectations, it's rare they stay healthy, it's rare they dont have a player behind them that the team believes can take over. It worked. They are all good players. It was worth it.
RE: Sean  
jvm52106 : 9/22/2017 8:36 am : link
In comment 13610304 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
They spent $200 million on three players who turned the defense from dead last to a top 10 defense. No one was complaining about that last year.

They've invested a lot of resources on the offense too, especially this offseason. It hasn't worked out as well.

The biggest problem is this franchise no longer seems to know how to put an OL together. But they've spent resources to do so. Ineffectively.

There are a lot of things to complain about, but adding Harrison, Jenkins, and Vernon are not at the top of my list.


Eric, I see your point and agree,,,alomost completely. One problem I see is a sort of confirmation bias by the Giants and by many fans. The Offense scored lots of points and moved the ball so everything on offense is fine. The defense played so much better and was really good against the Cowboys and a few others that it is borderline great...

The biggest misnomer I see is where people say the Giants offense was so much better with McAdoo when he was the OC. I don't agree with that. First off the biggest problem we have (Oline) and the second biggest (running game) has been issue for a while. Even in 2015, where the offensive numbers were better we still had issues. In fact, I remember clearly stating as such and having many people knock that thought citing stats of yards, TDs without context. The Giants were behind a lot! The Giants had long stretches in many games where the offense completely bogged down. The Giants could not run to help save a very bad and thin defense. We couldn't convert 3rd downs and when needed we could not muster the drives to win games. The defense was blamed and rightfully so but the offense didn't help much when needed. (BTW- this is the same argument we are seeing now about this years defense..)

The Giants organization decided to load up on defense. Then this off season we loaded up on TE, FB and a bigger WR to supposedly help with the offense that was too 1 player focused. Again, they ignored the Oline, basically ignored the running game in terms of finding a back who was significantly different than what we have now and they ignored the advancing age of Eli and the need to tweak the offense to fit what he is best at.

Football teams are built differently than any other sport. Our defense has to be built to do its job but also to be a help to our offense and our offense has to be built to do its job and help our defense. Our defense would be much better if were on the field less. If we had teams pinned back in their own territory more. BUT, our offense can't run, so we are stuck throwing and we can't pass block. This leads to 3 and outs, fast changes of offense and defense, losing the field position battle, making our defense have to be less aggressive for fear of quick strike scores... Right now we are a flawed team in design, a helter skelter team in direction and scheme and a very one dimensional team or one sided team on the field (defense only!).
I keep seeing.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/22/2017 8:53 am : link
the false equivalency that the $$ spent on Jenkins, Snacks and Vernon should have been spent on the OL.

Even assuming somehow we hit on all the signings like we improbably did on D, and the OL was solid, we'd still be shitty on D.

The issue we are facing isn't one of not attempting to fix things or not spending on the OL - it is that we've missed on draft picks and signings. Whiffed.

Why posters keep trying to tie it to the D is strange at best and is really shitty logic.
RE: I keep seeing.  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 9/22/2017 9:11 am : link
In comment 13610480 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the false equivalency that the $$ spent on Jenkins, Snacks and Vernon should have been spent on the OL.

Even assuming somehow we hit on all the signings like we improbably did on D, and the OL was solid, we'd still be shitty on D.

The issue we are facing isn't one of not attempting to fix things or not spending on the OL - it is that we've missed on draft picks and signings. Whiffed.

Why posters keep trying to tie it to the D is strange at best and is really shitty logic.


The only direct tie-in to the D is the constant revolving door of DTs after their first contracts that necessitated draft picks.

It's the complete whiffing on the mid to late rounds that has brought us to this point.
Missing on mid to late round guys affects roster depth  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/22/2017 9:15 am : link
the problem we have is a lack of guys that you expect to play at a starter's level. They spent a lot of premium picks on offensive line and have not hit in any meaningful way.

Pugh is a good player, but he's a role player on a good line. If he's the best, your line isn't good enough.
They've focused on offense plenty  
Biteymax22 : 9/22/2017 9:24 am : link
This years first round pick, this years 2 biggest free agents (Marshall and Ellison), 3 of our OL starters are our own 1st or 2nd round picks and we pay our QB among the top in the league.

There is a massive investment in the offense, we just seem to be really bad at assessing and developing OL talent.
RE: I keep seeing.  
oldutican : 9/22/2017 9:35 am : link
In comment 13610480 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the false equivalency that the $$ spent on Jenkins, Snacks and Vernon should have been spent on the OL.

Even assuming somehow we hit on all the signings like we improbably did on D, and the OL was solid, we'd still be shitty on D.

The issue we are facing isn't one of not attempting to fix things or not spending on the OL - it is that we've missed on draft picks and signings. Whiffed.

Why posters keep trying to tie it to the D is strange at best and is really shitty logic.


Bingo
RE: I keep seeing.  
jvm52106 : 9/22/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13610480 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the false equivalency that the $$ spent on Jenkins, Snacks and Vernon should have been spent on the OL.

Even assuming somehow we hit on all the signings like we improbably did on D, and the OL was solid, we'd still be shitty on D.

The issue we are facing isn't one of not attempting to fix things or not spending on the OL - it is that we've missed on draft picks and signings. Whiffed.

Why posters keep trying to tie it to the D is strange at best and is really shitty logic.


Not sure if you are tying your comment to my post but if so you are not reading my post correctly. I have no issue with money spent on the defensive players we got. I do have an issue that we looked at it as the main issue with the team and ignored that our biggest problem period was no running game and a poor Oline. How do you think dallas manages to do well with much LESS talent on their defense. They eat the clock, they hold the ball, they protect their defense.

We upgrade the defense and then turn around and go we can fix the offense by signing a TE, drafting a TE (after drafting one the year before too) and adding a FB. None of those matter if they can't block their own assignments because the Oline let guys through too soon or are so poor we now have to assign one of them to help the T..

I am 100% for the guys we signed on defense but we have done nothing on the other side to really help them become more successful. In fact, we have done such a poor job we actually seem to have made our defense be a bit more cautious to avoid giving up quick points.
RE: I keep seeing.  
Matt M. : 9/22/2017 5:14 pm : link
In comment 13610480 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the false equivalency that the $$ spent on Jenkins, Snacks and Vernon should have been spent on the OL.

Even assuming somehow we hit on all the signings like we improbably did on D, and the OL was solid, we'd still be shitty on D.

The issue we are facing isn't one of not attempting to fix things or not spending on the OL - it is that we've missed on draft picks and signings. Whiffed.

Why posters keep trying to tie it to the D is strange at best and is really shitty logic.
Bingo. At this point, Flowers is a bust, Pugh is pretty good when healthy, and Richburg has been inconsistent. Bisnkwatty didn't even make the team. That covers draft picks. Jerry was signed for depth, but forced to start. He I explicably remains a starter despite sucking. Schwartz was a bust. Fluker was terrible all summer, be we knew he had bad flaws when we signed him. Baas was a bust. Hart and Jones as were always projects. I'm missing a couple, but that is not ignoring the OL. It is just not making good moves. This year is the first year I this k you can say they somewhat neglected the line given who we signed vs. Who was available.
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