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Why Moving Flowers to RT is a Bad Idea

Jim in Tampa : 9/22/2017 8:53 am
Many BBIers and football experts have suggested that since Flowers isn’t working out at LT, that a move to RT would make a lot sense. But does it really?

Back in the day most NFL teams put their best pass rusher at LDE, so opposing offenses could get by with playing a RT who was not quite as good at pass blocking. Now formidable pass rushers come from both the left and the right side, making it harder to hide your week pass-blocking link at RT.

If the Giants decided to move Flowers to RT, here are the pass rushers (both DE and 3-4 LBs) that Flowers would have to contend with this season:

Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Justin Houston, Joey Bosa, Ryan Kerrigan (twice) Brandon Graham (twice) Michael Bennett, Chandler Jones, Ethan Westbrooks, Tank Carradine and Tyrone Crawford.

This of course does not account for creative Defensive Coordinators flipping their DEs or LBs, so that their best pass rushers could have a shot at Flowers too.

A change of position for Flowers probably won’t happen this season anyway, but if and when it does, a switch to RT just doesn’t make any sense.

Unless the light bulb somehow turns on for Flowers, it would appear that his only suitable position in the NFL is guard…not tackle.
I  
AcidTest : 9/22/2017 8:56 am : link
agree. His only chance is at guard. I just think it's too late to do that this year, although LG might be possible. But absent that, he'd have to go to the bench.
Good points  
Rjanyg : 9/22/2017 9:00 am : link
His best position may be at Guard but with the idea that a team may view the right side of the O Line at the " Power " side he would be a better RT than LT. Traditionally the Power side of the line is the better drive blockers ( think Snee, McKenzie ) where the left side has better athleticism for speed rushers and pulling. I think if NYG went to a more traditional offense, have a line of Pugh, Jones, Richburg, Fluker, Flowers might be the best positions based on the skill sets of the group.

I still think it is bad that John Jerry is starting. He is not powerful enough to be a RG and can pick up a stunt to save his OR Eli's life.
I think you mean right DE  
robbieballs2003 : 9/22/2017 9:02 am : link
Quote:
Back in the day most NFL teams put their best pass rusher at LDE, so opposing offenses could get by with playing a RT who was not quite as good at pass blocking. 
RT has a TE  
PEEJ : 9/22/2017 9:03 am : link
on his side to help out
Yea I did  
Jim in Tampa : 9/22/2017 9:04 am : link
Thanks!
RE: I  
section125 : 9/22/2017 9:05 am : link
In comment 13610482 AcidTest said:
Quote:
agree. His only chance is at guard. I just think it's too late to do that this year, although LG might be possible. But absent that, he'd have to go to the bench.


Take Fluker out and put Hart in at RG. Fluker is slow with poor lateral movement. Hart is slow for a tackle, but would be quick for a guard. Fluker would be attacked by stunts where he would have to get outside, Hart being quicker has a better chance of picking up the stunt.
Flowers is a young LT ...  
Beer Man : 9/22/2017 9:06 am : link
That, due to Will B.'s injury, was forced to play the LT long before he was NFL ready. Typically, a young LT with flawed mechanics is place at one of the G positions or at RT to develop their mechanics; with the hope of one day moving over to anchor the left edge. That didn't happen with Flowers, and the team didn't try to move him over to one of the other positions after his rough start. IMO he should be at RG or RT where his power game is of more value.
If he's not going to get any better than he has been  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/22/2017 9:07 am : link
it won't matter where he plays. Defensive players move all over the line. There is no safe space. The only thing you can do is surround him with better players who can mitigate his inconsistency. If he plays guard, any defensive coordinator worth a dime will game plan to send pressure through his gap.
RE: RE: I  
Beer Man : 9/22/2017 9:08 am : link
In comment 13610498 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13610482 AcidTest said:


Quote:


agree. His only chance is at guard. I just think it's too late to do that this year, although LG might be possible. But absent that, he'd have to go to the bench.



Take Fluker out and put Hart in at RG. Fluker is slow with poor lateral movement. Hart is slow for a tackle, but would be quick for a guard. Fluker would be attacked by stunts where he would have to get outside, Hart being quicker has a better chance of picking up the stunt.
The thing to consider with a Fluker/Flowers right side, is that you can pound that side of the line with the run which will slow down the pass rush as it wears down the DTs and DEs
RE: RE: RE: I  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/22/2017 9:09 am : link
In comment 13610504 Beer Man said:
Quote:


The thing to consider with a Fluker/Flowers right side, is that you can pound that side of the line with the run which will slow down the pass rush as it wears down the DTs and DEs


That's one of the few adjustments I think they could actually do in-season and have some success with.
RE: If he's not going to get any better than he has been  
Beer Man : 9/22/2017 9:10 am : link
In comment 13610501 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
it won't matter where he plays. Defensive players move all over the line. There is no safe space. The only thing you can do is surround him with better players who can mitigate his inconsistency. If he plays guard, any defensive coordinator worth a dime will game plan to send pressure through his gap.
True, but at G he would be defending a much smaller space.
RE: RT has a TE  
robbieballs2003 : 9/22/2017 9:12 am : link
In comment 13610496 PEEJ said:
Quote:
on his side to help out


Huh? TEs can only line up next to a RT? When did that become a rule?
Agreed  
Biteymax22 : 9/22/2017 9:13 am : link
His issue isn't being on the right or left, its dealing with guys in space, which you're going to have to do as a tackle on either side.

His best position would be guard and I'm not so sure he's an NFL starter there either. Would need to see it.
RE: RE: RT has a TE  
AnnapolisMike : 9/22/2017 9:16 am : link
In comment 13610512 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13610496 PEEJ said:


Quote:


on his side to help out



Huh? TEs can only line up next to a RT? When did that become a rule?


Sarcasm....Pugh had help at RT in the Lions game.
RE: RE: RE: I  
section125 : 9/22/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13610504 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13610498 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13610482 AcidTest said:


Quote:


agree. His only chance is at guard. I just think it's too late to do that this year, although LG might be possible. But absent that, he'd have to go to the bench.



Take Fluker out and put Hart in at RG. Fluker is slow with poor lateral movement. Hart is slow for a tackle, but would be quick for a guard. Fluker would be attacked by stunts where he would have to get outside, Hart being quicker has a better chance of picking up the stunt.

The thing to consider with a Fluker/Flowers right side, is that you can pound that side of the line with the run which will slow down the pass rush as it wears down the DTs and DEs


What happens on passing downs (60% of the game)?
I think he might be best suited for Guard  
Simms11 : 9/22/2017 9:35 am : link
as well. He's string ad an ox, can run block and would only have to block a smaller space. He wouldn't be beaten to his outside shoulder by quicker defenders as there'd be a RT there and perhaps TE or RB also on that side to help chip or block. I think it could work, but unfortunately, we're stuck with him at LT this year. He'll need a whole off-season to work on Guard fundamentals.
strong as an ox  
Simms11 : 9/22/2017 9:36 am : link
I freaking hate autocorrect
RE: I think he might be best suited for Guard  
PatersonPlank : 9/22/2017 10:44 am : link
In comment 13610554 Simms11 said:
Quote:
as well. He's string ad an ox, can run block and would only have to block a smaller space. He wouldn't be beaten to his outside shoulder by quicker defenders as there'd be a RT there and perhaps TE or RB also on that side to help chip or block. I think it could work, but unfortunately, we're stuck with him at LT this year. He'll need a whole off-season to work on Guard fundamentals.


I think he might be best suited for the Jets
RE: RE: RE: RE: I  
Rjanyg : 9/22/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13610539 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13610504 Beer Man said:


Quote:


In comment 13610498 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13610482 AcidTest said:


Quote:


agree. His only chance is at guard. I just think it's too late to do that this year, although LG might be possible. But absent that, he'd have to go to the bench.



Take Fluker out and put Hart in at RG. Fluker is slow with poor lateral movement. Hart is slow for a tackle, but would be quick for a guard. Fluker would be attacked by stunts where he would have to get outside, Hart being quicker has a better chance of picking up the stunt.

The thing to consider with a Fluker/Flowers right side, is that you can pound that side of the line with the run which will slow down the pass rush as it wears down the DTs and DEs



What happens on passing downs (60% of the game)?


If you can show commitment to the run game, possibly even produce a run game, then play action passing is the type of pass play that will open up. If you do that 50% of your pass plays then only straight drop or shotgun without a fake then you are minimizing the number of times a DL can pin their ears back and kill your QB.

A FLuker/Flowers right side would be a good thing. Add Ellison to the right side and pull Jones on the power off tackle play with a FB lead and maybe we could actually run the ball with success.
I agree  
SHO'NUFF : 9/22/2017 12:15 pm : link
let's move him to the bench.
How about just benching him?  
Doomster : 9/22/2017 12:16 pm : link
I would rather have Pugh on Eli's blind side.....you take a chance with Fluker or someone else at RT, and join Ellison at the hip there.......

It might light a fire under his ass....
Why Benching Flowers is a Bad Idea  
Jimmy Googs : 9/22/2017 12:30 pm : link













sorry, couldn't think of any...
Weird thing about Flowers. He was okay his rookie year  
DennyInDenville : 9/22/2017 12:57 pm : link
Last year he was really bad

This year he looks like doesn't even belong in the league..

Sad
He can't play outside  
KWALL2 : 9/22/2017 3:54 pm : link
The defense will simply put a speed rusher on his side and its over. He can't handle it.
RE: He can't play outside  
TheMick7 : 9/22/2017 3:58 pm : link
In comment 13611029 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
The defense will simply put a speed rusher on his side and its over. He can't handle it.


This. They better put him inside this year because otherwise they can't justify giving him a new contract in the off season.Either he becomes a good OG or he becomes one of the worst #1 picks in NYG history!
Ellison in his hip all day  
KWALL2 : 9/22/2017 4:28 pm : link
If they play him at OT they better have a guy to help on every passing down.

This guy, with his stop the feet and drop his head technique, is a dream for any DL. It's career day for them when you line up vs Flowers. He's a team killer at this point.
Agreed. I would move him to  
ZGiants98 : 9/22/2017 4:53 pm : link
guard.
THE BLIND SIDE  
tomjgiant : 9/22/2017 6:35 pm : link
The reason LT is the most important spot on the line is to protect the QB'S blind side so long as you have a right handed QB.
Flowers is completely deficient at moving his feet at enough speed  
Jimmy Googs : 9/22/2017 7:08 pm : link
to ever keep up with an above-average pass rusher on the edge.

It is basically a mismatch at the snap of the ball.

He would be better off just moving towards the Def End at the snap of the ball and playing more of a run-oriented blocking style. At least it would give Eli one more second than what he is achieving now.

Just a disaster and a strategic error to allow it to continue this year for certain...
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