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Carl Banks on FAN

Chris684 : 9/22/2017 11:14 am
Carl talking about the evolution of the development of young OL due to practice rules changes.

Need to help Flowers.

Talking about how closely monitored teams are due to new practice rules that there are cameras at facilities watching who stays and how long. Comparing to other sports where basketball players can work on jump shots, etc.

When you're prospecting, OL are fundamentally flawed because they do not practice or play with fundys required in NFL. Says if bad OLs start hurting QBs, only then rules might change.
Carl says 3 years is about how long  
Chris684 : 9/22/2017 11:15 am : link
he would experiment with Flowers BUT they need to help him. Can't leave him out on an island.
Not getting Flowers more help in that last game was just stupid  
jcn56 : 9/22/2017 11:19 am : link
Not sure what they were going for there - according to the pressers, they felt that the right side needed more help, but the results were more than obvious.
Carl thinks they put it together and win  
Chris684 : 9/22/2017 11:27 am : link
Being in the building this week there was a sense of urgency.

Has good feeling offensively they'll give the help where it's needed schematically.

Says defensively they need to pick-up O. If you are the defense you say you are, you get 3 and outs too.

Expects Beckham full go. Not on injury report.
Carl thinks Philly is "really good"  
Chris684 : 9/22/2017 11:30 am : link
aggressive and heavy handed.

DBs banged up but the front is as legit as it gets.

Carl doesnt question who calls plays. Wants them to have better feel collectively of whats going on in game.

West Coast guys like to have a script but you need to be able to adjust in-game.
Dottino thinks they're losing  
The_Boss : 9/22/2017 12:05 pm : link
Carl thinks they're winning.
Not alot of ground breaking material here  
Chris684 : 9/22/2017 12:15 pm : link
Glad to hear that the locker room reflected a sense of urgency this week, not that you'd expect anything less than that at 0-2 heading to Philly.

RE: Carl thinks they put it together and win  
PatersonPlank : 9/22/2017 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13610755 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Being in the building this week there was a sense of urgency.

Has good feeling offensively they'll give the help where it's needed schematically.

Says defensively they need to pick-up O. If you are the defense you say you are, you get 3 and outs too.

Expects Beckham full go. Not on injury report.


Well its about time there is a sense of urgency.
Only problem with complaining about lack of practice time...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/22/2017 12:42 pm : link
is that this is very close to the same line we've had for several years now and there's been no improvement, meanwhile other teams practicing under the same limited rules are much better.

Solution has to be to change the WAY that we practice (more emphasis on group practice, less individual work).
Lack of practice time didn't affect the defensive line last year  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/22/2017 1:07 pm : link
It's not practice. It's the players.
The point wasnt about defensive linemen  
Chris684 : 9/22/2017 1:12 pm : link
more specifically OL.

Of course talent is the X factor. Top shelf prospects, guys like Martin, Conklin will come as advertised.

It's the flawed prospect who brings size and upside but maybe not fundamentals that you now have to be concerned with when picking OL.
Sense of Urgency  
siena16 : 9/22/2017 2:19 pm : link
Talk about this and Talk about that. Sense of Urgency in Building, Practice Time, on and on bottom line is: There is a lack of leadership at the coaching position.

RE: Lack of practice time didn't affect the defensive line last year  
RetroJint : 9/22/2017 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13610878 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's not practice. It's the players.

Teams play upwards to 8 defensive linemen in a game but nobody plays more than five offensive linemen unless there is an injury or one guy is a blocking tight end. Why do you think that is the case? Center on 2 words: 1 Scarcity 2 Cohesiveness .
RE: RE: Lack of practice time didn't affect the defensive line last year  
Dan in the Springs : 9/22/2017 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13610958 RetroJint said:
Quote:
In comment 13610878 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


It's not practice. It's the players.


Teams play upwards to 8 defensive linemen in a game but nobody plays more than five offensive linemen unless there is an injury or one guy is a blocking tight end. Why do you think that is the case? Center on 2 words: 1 Scarcity 2 Cohesiveness .


Absolutely, and that's exactly why there needs to be a change in practice time given to OL. Until there is a rule change, smart teams must adjust by giving all practice time for the OL differently than for other positions. It must be focused on execution, because the OL must be cohesive, working together.
RE: The point wasnt about defensive linemen  
RetroJint : 9/22/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13610886 Chris684 said:
Quote:
more specifically OL.

Of course talent is the X factor. Top shelf prospects, guys like Martin, Conklin will come as advertised.

It's the flawed prospect who brings size and upside but maybe not fundamentals that you now have to be concerned with when picking OL.


All good players are fundamentally sound. Or, no poor players possess good fundamentals . Do you realize that? Mantle, Jordan, Jim Brown, Gretsky, Unitas, Nolan Ryan---all fundamentally sound. That's what "talent" means .
I think the point  
jvm52106 : 9/22/2017 2:34 pm : link
is more that when you have a project - Flowers, Bisnowaty, Wheeler- they can't get dramatically better quickly due to the lack of practice time. The big problem is, you drafted a guy with very flawed mechanics and you now think he can get himself there with your normal prcatice time. BUT, the rest of the line needs work too. Add in the fact that you now have players- Pugh and Jerry, who had to keep an eye on the Tackle next to them because of their flaws (exposing their own flaws even more because of that need) and that leads to a lot of over thinking and out of place playing.

This whole idea on getting one player help changes the dynamic of the offense and causes a whole lot of confusion and less than stellar looking play!
Baffling they don’t use Ellison  
Rflairr : 9/22/2017 2:41 pm : link
Over there. Talk about not using the talent, you have
RE: The point wasnt about defensive linemen  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/22/2017 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13610886 Chris684 said:
Quote:
more specifically OL.

Of course talent is the X factor. Top shelf prospects, guys like Martin, Conklin will come as advertised.

It's the flawed prospect who brings size and upside but maybe not fundamentals that you now have to be concerned with when picking OL.


I'm generally more than willing to give coaches the benefit of the doubt regarding players but I have a hard time accepting that Flowers' weaknesses as a prospect could have been so bad that he's three years in and still having the same deficiencies. Fundamentals are not something you expect a multiple-year learning curve from when you're looking at round-1 prospects. It's an unprecedentedly massive blunder the likes of which the Giants haven't had in that part of the draft in probably more than a decade.
RE: Lack of practice time didn't affect the defensive line last year  
AcidTest : 9/22/2017 3:14 pm : link
In comment 13610878 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's not practice. It's the players.


Agreed.
Flowers seems to have regressed  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/22/2017 3:53 pm : link
how can that be explained ?
This is what I don't get  
dpinzow : 9/22/2017 4:46 pm : link
The line had Flowers, Pugh, Richburg and sometimes Jerry in the same positions with Marshall Newhouse, no world-beater, at right tackle, and they scored 26 points a game. Flowers was a rookie, Richburg was a 2nd year player, Newhouse wasn't much better than Hart, and RG was interchanged between Geoff Schwartz (not exactly a world-beater either) and Jerry
watch  
nyynyg : 9/22/2017 6:15 pm : link
the Giants will win this weekend if for no other reason but so that we have 100's of threads about how we could have been 3-0 if they just did whatever they did before the first game. It is the BBI way.

I don't think they win for the record. Frankly there is nothing but blue shaded glasses that should give anyone of us a thought they have a shot in this game.
RE: Flowers seems to have regressed  
AnishPatel : 9/22/2017 6:16 pm : link
In comment 13611026 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
how can that be explained ?


He was never sound in technique to begin with. Add the pressure of playing in NY and perhaps coaching and being young still, that he hasn't progressed to what the team thought he would be at.
RE: Carl thinks they put it together and win  
GeofromNJ : 9/22/2017 10:32 pm : link
In comment 13610755 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Being in the building this week there was a sense of urgency.

Has good feeling offensively they'll give the help where it's needed schematically.

Says defensively they need to pick-up O. If you are the defense you say you are, you get 3 and outs too.

Expects Beckham full go. Not on injury report.

Carl has been wrong more times than I've been wrong. Based on history, he has no special insight. The Giants will be 0-3 after Sunday and may be 1-7 before they right the ship, at which time it will be too late.
RE: RE: Carl thinks they put it together and win  
EricJ : 9/22/2017 10:34 pm : link
In comment 13611283 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
In comment 13610755 Chris684 said:


Quote:


Being in the building this week there was a sense of urgency.

Has good feeling offensively they'll give the help where it's needed schematically.

Says defensively they need to pick-up O. If you are the defense you say you are, you get 3 and outs too.

Expects Beckham full go. Not on injury report.


Carl has been wrong more times than I've been wrong. Based on history, he has no special insight. The Giants will be 0-3 after Sunday and may be 1-7 before they right the ship, at which time it will be too late.


The only way we win with this offense is...
1. OBJ gets a long score
AND
2. The defense scores
We pretty much need a shut out .  
Bluesbreaker : 9/22/2017 11:20 pm : link
I am worried they will burn us on special teams as well
Based on the first two games,  
GiantsUA : 9/23/2017 8:54 am : link
a reasonable person would predict a double digit loss.

RE: Baffling they don’t use Ellison  
HomerJones45 : 9/23/2017 9:32 am : link
In comment 13610971 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Over there. Talk about not using the talent, you have
Ellison is an 18 million dollar spare part. Engram and Adams both run much better, and Ellison has not blocked (which is the only facet of his game worth anything) all that well when he has played.
RE: RE: Baffling they don’t use Ellison  
BigBlueShock : 9/23/2017 9:43 am : link
In comment 13611409 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13610971 Rflairr said:


Quote:


Over there. Talk about not using the talent, you have

Ellison is an 18 million dollar spare part. Engram and Adams both run much better, and Ellison has not blocked (which is the only facet of his game worth anything) all that well when he has played.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that you have less than zero idea how well Ellison has blocked while he's been in there. I'm sure you're watching film and focusing in on Ellison, huh? I'm not sure how you can pass judgement on a guy that is rarely in the field. I'm guessing it's because you didn't like the signing so you're going all in. Ellison is KNOWN to be a very good blocker. And your constant point of the $18 million is a bit disingenuous. Everyone knows that the total dollars means absolutely nothing unless it was all guaranteed money.
Judging from some of the threads on here recently,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/23/2017 10:20 am : link
There are some users on here who should be regarded with even less credibility than usual when it comes to sounding like they know what they're talking about.
RE: Judging from some of the threads on here recently,  
BigBlueShock : 9/23/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13611440 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
There are some users on here who should be regarded with even less credibility than usual when it comes to sounding like they know what they're talking about.

I wonder if Eric has any data on site traffic comparing this year after two games and last year after two games when they started out 2-0. I could be wrong but it sure seems like traffic picks up immensely when things go bad and it sure doesn't bring out the "quality" posters. People seem to come out of the woodwork when they can bitch about everything. People love misery I suppose.
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